I am writing an artice on Should HR Use Facebook to Screen Gen Yers?

[jennygirl]

They were born between the late 1970's to the early 1990s). I am an organizational psychology and as such work with many human resource people (many of whom are Baby Boomers). Several have informed me that they look over a professional candidate's Facebook to screen in or weed out people whose values and mores don't fall into company line --- mind you, these are no positions in creativity-related fields or IT or software are jobs in such fields.

Do you think that this is an intrusion into your personal life? Your input on this section will be valuable.

[EFerrari]

1. I'd hope they'd use some kind of spell check at a minimum.

[Hekate]

27. You would think that someone with a degree would do that, wouldn't you?

:eyes:

Hekate

[SidDithers]

32. The lack of punctuation made my brain hurt...nt

Sid

[EFerrari]

39. We all need editors but I hope there is a special hell for people who write

long dingy sentences that pull your attention through their long, winding hell.

lol

[Brickbat]

2. I don't think it's any kind of invasion. I figure anything that can be found with a quick google --

and that's quite a bit -- is fair game. Don't put it out there if you don't want someone finding it.

[anigbrowl]

3. no, but OTOH I consider it's up to me to choose what to keep private

I assume anything I publish under my own name or a consistent nickname on the internet is public fodder. As is anything posted by a potential manager'/supervisor and company. I work freelance so I sometimes check up on people if I think there might be a risk of non-payment or whatever.

[truedelphi]

9. Someone who wanted me to do some writing & research for them turned out to

Have been a major Madoff type - he and a buddy had put together a
"terrific investment package" that ultimately led to many people losing a combined total of 55 Million bucks.

For which he got a lecture from a judge and a $ 155,000 fine!

Had he decided to go ahead with his project, believe me, he'd have been asked to pay up front.

[One of Many]

4. $0.02

I would question if the information gleaned is a valid indicator or performance on the job overall.

At a minimum, if people put compromising images or text on facebook it may well indicate a lack of discretion that could come back to bite the company or institution to which they are applying.

To answer your pointed question, it is no longer one's personal life if they put those details on facebook so no intrusion is possible in my opinion barring deceitful practices like trying to gain access to any protected areas on false grounds.

</$0.02>

[Gormy Cuss]

20. +1

I think that FB and other public persona are in general very bad indicators of how someone would be as in an employee in most cases.

However, there is no privacy when one is essentially shouting the info from the rooftops on a public page at Facebook and the like.

[bighughdiehl]

5. No.

I do not see why, other than a basic criminal background check, they should
have any more insight into personal lives before hiring than they could 20 years ago.
Fuck them. So GenYers post pics of themselves goofing off, so what? What they should do is have high privacy settings and say they don't have a facebook page. Fuck the corpos-especially when the CEOs are probably snorting lots of nose candy-some on the taxpayer dime. They get to have lots of privacy, even though they can more fairly be said to "represent the company" more than the rank and file employees. Hypocrites. Applicants, make you page very hard to find.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. How is it an intrusion of privacy...

...for them to look at items you've posted on the internet for all to see? Is it a useful practice? Probably not. But it's not an invasion of privacy. Now if they come asking for your password because your Facebook profile isn't publicly visible, *that's* an invasion of privacy.

[deadmessengers]

7. Better make damn good and sure you're screening the right person

The fourth link when Googling my real full name leads to a news report of someone who shares my name arrested for possession of child porn. It's trivial to verify that this person was not me, but if I found out that I was denied employment because of that article, it would be lawyerin' time.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. there must be at least 5000 people on FB with my name...

hard to find me...but even if you do, there is nothing there that I would not divulge in an interview if asked...

sP

[-..__...]

8. One you put it out in the open...

it's fair game.

[sandnsea]

10. If HR has time to google & facebook people

They have too much time on their hands. Job skills and accomplishments are all any employer should be able to look into. What people do in their private life is supposed to be private.

[FirstLight]

18. +100

:thumbsup:

I just finished a certification program in HR and this topic was part of a heated discussion. the answer is that "until it is litigated' anything they can find on you is fair game. hough they have to ask permoission befre doing credit checks and BG checks, etc...but NOT for Facebook?
I make my profile totally private, but that doesn't mean that somehow somewhere my internet persona can't be found... and what IF a potential Rethug employer traed me back to DU...?
no, it is one of their business, and any employer who would deny me a job because they don't like WHO I AM, can go fuck themselves. I wouldn't work for someone who would do that anyway, it is the same as having a Private Investigator 'tail me' for a week...

and i agree, ANY HR person who has time to investigate applicants like this is pretty rare, but not completely off base. they will do it until we fight for our rights to privacy.
(IMO- not enough people fought against drug testing when it first came out, i see THAT as a privacy issue too, but that's another flame war...)

[sandnsea]

21. Some of us at DU complained about predator loans

and credit card interest rates and student loans and all the rest, and were promptly told we were all just irresponsible and shouldn't take debt we couldn't pay back or sign a contract we didn't understand.

Then - when THEY are in trouble because of these crooks, why then it's all different.

It's all the same. Too many people just fall into line with whatever "business" says is okay. The first people to fight back are always ridiculed. It's not until the white collar workers start getting really hurt that anything ever becomes a problem.

I agree about the drug testing, for the most part. Unless you're driving or operating machinery, it isn't the company's business what you do on your private time. I've never taken a drug test for a job because I've been self-employed for over ten years. But when I think about a job, having to take a drug test is one of the things I think about and I haven't used in 25 years. I don't know why so many people just hand over their rights.

[FirstLight]

22. yep...

it is not about 'not doing anything to get yourself in trouble' it is about RIGHTS, and those are handed over WAY too easliy these days.
I have been freelancing for over 2 years and just re-signed with a local temp agency to bring in some extra cash...they had all sorts of background check forms, and even though I was trying NOT to sign them, the director handed them back to me and 'sold' me on the fact that it was Normal for me to sign them and I HAD to, etc... He pushed me until I caved.

What sux is that even when we KNOW we have those rights...it is so easy to get bullied into giving them up because of the 'authority figure' complex we have ...Like being in the principal's office and knowing you are NOT the kid who pulled the fire alarm, but the more he talks to you the more convinced you become that you should just tell him everything.


I wonder if I will EVER be able to do a 'real' job again... need to just put double the effort into freelancing, because I don't DO the heirarchy/authority thing! :rofl:

[MonteLukast]

35. Rethug employers and Democratic applicants...

My being a Democrat could be conjectured to mean all kinds of brand-spoiling things:
I'm anti-Monsanto. Therefore no jobs for me in biotech.
I can't work at a charter school, or a company where the CEO is a fundie. I don't have the right shared authoritarian mindset.
I'm pro-union, so that makes me socialist, anti-wealth, and anti-business.
I'm too negative because I believe in facing reality, not magical thinking. Hell, even too much appreciation for Barbara Ehrenreich could land me on that list. Hell... even if I just don't read "The Secret" enough!
I have no clue about the way the world works. I'm not willing to make tough decisions like firing people.
I'm not willing to bullshit my customers, telling them something's rosier than it is (oooh! negative!) or that it's a good thing that I'm outsourcing their job of taking their health benefits away... and certainly I'm not going to be willing to secretly mark up their mortgages and skim the difference. Therefore I will cost my company serious money, and therefore I am UNPROFITABLE.

C'mon, bosses. You're big enough to NOT demand that your employees all share your worldview, right? Right?

[wolfgangmo]

47. An insurance company paid a PI for a week to follow and film me.

I was on a disability leave from my job and collecting a huge dividend of $300 per month on my long term disability policy. So they paid a PI $500 a day to follow and film me to see if I was disabled. That's right they paid someone a years worth of dividends to find out if it was worth paying me my $300 for another month. Did I mention that I was only about 3 months from the end of my pay out on my policy?

Here's a funny thing - I used to be an officer and I asked around if anyone knew who was doing PI work in our area for the insurance companies and I found out who had filmed me. He was all proud of being able to track an officer and was mouthing off at a bar where a lot of officers hang out off duty. It turns out it is a guy who was run out or the department for incompetance and who has a brother who works for the insurance company.

It's a great example of how crappily run the insurance companies are and why they fight so hard to keep screwing the public.

[Xithras]

42. But it's NOT your private life.

That's the whole point of social media...making your private life public. You cannot post your information, photos, and videos to the Internet for the whole world to see and then whine about a privacy violation when someone uses it in a way you don't like.

We'd be on the same page if employers were demanding access to profiles marked private, but when you publish information to a place where the whole world can see it, don't be shocked when the whole world sees it.

[aikoaiko]

12. Any public display is fair game in the employment decisions.

This is the way it has always been. Facebook and other networking/internet sites just makes it easier to screwup or get caught.

There is also the chance the these sites can help a candidate. People being fired, disciplined, or not hired because of online displays is not new. You may want to include how online displays have also helped people. For example, I found one of our candidates online and noticed she liked the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It spoke well of her in my estimation. I found another person online who was a competitive shooter and I like that too.


What did you mean by "mind you, these are no positions in creativity-related fields or IT or software are jobs in such fields." What would these jobs have to do with this issue?

eta: I use pipl.com for the public information.

[wolfgangmo]

48. Those jobs tend to be more concerned that you are good at the job

Rather than what your personal beliefs are. They are very demanding and change quickly and you are only as good as your last project. They only care about the job.

In other jobs that are less dynamic industries they tend to care more about your politics etc. because they are asking you to do things that are blatently unethical and any ethic inclinations would be reason not to hire you.

Fan of Rage against the Machine? No job for you. Fan of Toby Keith? Hire that person, they are willing to fuck anyone to get ahead.

[CherokeeDem]

13. I refused to use Facebook or any of the personal posting sites...

As a HR professional with over 20 yrs experience,specializing in recruiting, retention and training, I would not use Facebook. I am however, not a Gen Yers but a Baby Boomer so my attitude is perhaps different about privacy. But that should not matter and any HR professional or hiring authority who uses any other tools other than professional references and criminal background checks are not screening people based on company values but on personal values, their own.

A national job search site has been promoting to people who post their resumes there to include their Facebook and MySpace, etc links. Then they have been promoting these extra ways to find out about more about the candidates to employers. During a presentation to my former employer, a health care company, they used a RN's Facebook/MySpace account as a demonstration. On her blog, her first listed post was "God, I don't want to go to work tomorrow!" Now, as an employer should I take that seriously or should I realize that all of us have uttered that phrase at some point during our employment. Taken out of context, personal musings should not be considered as part of the hiring process.

I think that most of these people who resort to using these means are either unqualified to be a hiring authority or very lazy. That said, if someone is posting on these sites, knowing that employers maybe checking them, writes things that could harm them are simply being stupid. But then, email addresses are a prime example of stupid, [e-mail] is not a good choice for a professional.

I am very concerned about the trends currently being used by employers. I also fault these large job posting sites who basically put these programs into place and then charge the employer for the privilege of usage. We should know better than that.

If can help answer any questions you might have, pm me. Good luck with your research.

[Lucian]

14. If I found out someone I wanted to work for...

was searching facebook to find everything about me, I wouldn't work for that company. What I put in facebook is personal, and it's no business of the company what my values are. All they need to know is how qualified I am for the job.

Besides, I have everything blocked so only my friends can see my info. I don't want people who I don't know looking at my facebook profile.

[Golden Raisin]

15. I would prefer if HR

was guided and hired potential job candidates by work experience (resumes) and personal interviews. But the blunt reality is we now live in a world of Facebook and those who participate have knowingly put themselves out there for anyone to see, including HR. And the, "many of whom are Baby Boomers" is snarky and disingenuous.

[nickinSTL]

16. If you're applying for a job and stupid enough

to put information that would show you in a bad light out freely available on the Internet...do I really want you as an employee?

I'm not sure I agree it's an invasion of privacy if it's out there to be found. Heck, we run background checks, and IMO, that's way more invasive.

For me, I do google anyone that I have any input on hiring. As long as there's no info out there that's really something I consider a problem, I don't consider it in the hiring decision.

For instance, I found out that a guy we were considering hiring is involved in the gay games to a pretty serious degree. So...I can infer from that that he's gay. As that's something that in no way reflects on his ability to do the job, I didn't consider it. It's just a factoid about his life to me.

We ended up hiring him and he's worked for us for about 8 months now. I've never shared the results of my search with any colleagues, because, again, it wasn't relevant - and IMO, if he wants to share that part of his life, it should be done on his own terms.

Just my opinion on the matter.

[MonteLukast]

38. Jim Cramer wouldn't have hired you if you didn't play team sports.

He thought there was something intangible about people who had played team sports. Something subconsciously unselfish and sociable.

And he's far from the only boss who thinks like this. In fact, I would say the majority of workplace cultures have at least one coercive thing about them: basically whatever the CEO's favorite thing is, you'd better make it your favorite thing too... no matter how narcissistic and unrelated to the WORK that might be.
The thing is, we all shut up and put up with this. The employer is the one with the power, so we believe they can do whatever they want, and we have little choice but to live with it.

I think that Wall Street was no accident. They screened for Wall-Street-friendly mindset and personality: obviously cheerful, spokesmodely personalities, very likely having exquisitely planned social lives-- ALL their lives-- to prevent as much mixing with the middle and lower classes as possible. Anyone who was a little too middle-class? "Sorry, we decided to hire someone who was a better fit."

And so, we don't get the job offer, or any follow-up call at all... just dropped like that, like all People Who Are Not Good Fits™ are. And we kick ourselves with overanalysis, wondering what mal-development in our life experiences occurred and when, that made us such an unsuitable candidate. Worrying that our not playing team sports, or traveling to the south of France, or having five internships before age 25, mean that we will never get a well-paying job for the rest of our lives... because dammit, we just didn't start personal development early enough; and remember, everyone around us is constantly growing and networking. And it's not like we can rewind ten years and get a new, more privileged life... we're pretty much stuck with the one we've got.
And it didn't *use* to be so dadgum expensive to reinvent oneself...

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. We do a little sniffing, the shit we find is unbelievable

Our latest "catch" was a woman who included a link to her "video resume" the same site also featured a video of her urinating in a parking lot and driving while a male companion fired a paintball gun at parked cars among other non-misdemeanors.

My favorite is when we get an application from an email address like [e-mail]

I posted this about two years ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2481833

[Hekate]

28. That's some eye-opening stuff at your link!

:wow: And here I was thinking I should change my email moniker to something less reflective of my mythology degree and more in keeping with my current gig as a Civil Service Commissioner! :rofl:

Hekate

[LoZoccolo]

19. You can just as easily pwn the company with a fake "cleaned up" profile.

If you were to plaguerize a bunch of blog entries to make yourself look really smart, they probably wouldn't notice.

"You bet your life when you think wicked. Somebody's thinkin' wicked too." -Curtis Mayfield

[Xithras]

45. Heh, I actually know someone who did that.

He downloaded Wordpress and spent the better part of a week creating a fake blog with "articles" on web software development backdated several years. Most of his "writing" was simply a merger of other material he'd found on other sites on the Internet. He was so detailed that on many of the articles, he even faked feedback from readers who were having problems, and "helped" them solve their problems.

The URL went into the search engines and onto his resume, and to the unsuspecting visitor it looked like he'd been running the site for years.

I don't know if it was the site that did it, but he had a job three weeks after it went live, and he'd been fruitlessly searching for six months prior to that. I've always been a bit ambivalent about the idea. While it was certainly a shady thing to do, he based his article choices on things that he actually did know very well (he didn't want to get caught off guard in an interview). The skills and knowledge were genuine, while their presentation was completely fabricated.

He's either a genius, or a fraud. I don't know which to call him, but it's luckily not my call to make anyway.

[vadawg]

23. hell yes, if your dumb enough to put dumb shit out there then the company should be able to see it

i use it everyday to check what people are telling me, its amazing the lies that get caught by doing a simple facebook or myspace check.

[951-Riverside]

24. If you're stupid enough to voluntarily post embarrassing details about yourself...

maybe you shouldn't be hired to begin with.

Only an idiot would think they're entitled to privacy with a myspace or facebook account, I guess its the same idiots who bitch and moan about the boss spying on them when they're using the company's computer to goof off.

[liberalhistorian]

25. I think this practice should be illegal and not allowed AT ALL.

It is none of an employer's business what employees do on their own personal time, including on social media sites, and I find that especially intrusive. I'm 44, so not a Gen-exer, but I and many of my friends and family use Facebook and I do NOT appreciate the notion of an employer or insurance agent or government snoop or anyone else sticking their nose into it where it doesn't belong. People should be free to be themselves in their personal lives, period, without being afraid of what an employer or potential employer thinks when expressing political or religious or other views. That is why I make my settings as private as possible and many others I know do the same. What I say and do on FB has exactly fuckall zipshit to do with any job performance, period.

And the more cynical part of me believes that this is a way to make people beoome more compliant to prevailing corporate views, or to keep their mouths shut about everything, for fear of losing or not getting jobs, credit, etc., etc. IOW, it's another, even more insidious way of social, personal and professional control.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

30. so you would hire somebody who posts videos of herself peeing on the internet?

It is a good way to evaluate an individuals judgment - what else might they have poor judgment about?

[Warren DeMontague]

37. That depends. What's the job?

Firefighter?

[progressivebydesign]

26. As a professional, I'm keenly aware of everything I may have online for all to see.

Frankly, after looking at the FB pages of people in that age range, I wonder how most of them could even be considered employable. The dumbing down of America is nearly complete. I was contacted by an 18 year old who had hopes that I'd help her with a job shadow. I agreed. I met her and went to the client's house (I'm a designer.) She spent the majority of the meeting TEXTING someone, and looking out the window. And her correspondence was hilarious. I'd try to write somewhat more casual for her, but still keep it professional to show her what being in business is like. She'd write these "text" answers in the emails, like "k", and "c ya!", and put little happy faces on things. (Oh, and I never received a thank you for my time, or the design books that I gave her.) Not impressed...

As an employer, I'd google anyone I was considering hiring. I'd rather know if someone is a raging drunk, or completely unable to communicate as an adult. They should really just make their pages private, and the problem would be solved, wouldn't it?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

31. its exhibitionism - they don't want to be private

they just can't seem to appreciate their potential employers are unlikely to care how fucking cool they are,

[MonteLukast]

34. What I'm worried about is...

... not the stuff that's "bad" like urinating in a parking lot.

Simply the stuff that's seen as OK, but just not good ENOUGH a fit with the company mission.

For instance, medicine. I'm very open to alternative medicine, but lately I've been moderating that because the anti-vaccine crowd has gotten on my nerves. I think that each patient is different and does best with a mixture of conventional and alternative therapies. That could make me run afoul of both Big Pharma and Big Alternative. Why? Because of the need to promote the company brand. Can I be counted on to act like a spokesperson if I'm sitting on the fence that much? Of course not! Now, I happen to think that my point of view would bring a much needed balance to both sides. Absolutely, this is not an "embarrassment". But it's also not RAH-RAH COMPANY; and if that's the kind of employee HR wants, I'm out of luck.

We have to think about what KINDS of jobs are left behind after we've outsourced... they are typically the people-oriented jobs. Which too often, in practical terms, means the jobs that pressure every employee to be their company's spokesmodels.

[seabeyond]

29. what would happen if people actually had to think things thru....the net is a source

for people. put it out there, it is theirs to use.

[Born_A_Truman]

33. If my FB is set to private, how are they reading it?

[SoCalDem]

36. People have opened themselves up to intrusion, so it's fair game

Until we have a job market where a task is paid for, and there's no personal aspect involved, there will always be qualifiers used.

Some bosses are voyeurs, and "need" to know a LOT more than they should. My son once worked as a driver, and would get a different delivery truck every shift. EVERY truck started out on the same radio station, and apparently the boss would start each truck to see what the drivers were listening to, and then reset the radio to KFI. I mean, really!.. what difference would it make if drivers listened to different stations, and why not just let the person checking out the truck, decide

People used to keep confidences, and family "business" was just that. Only people on a need-to-know basis, knew the family dirt, but the faux-anonymity and the overwhelming urge to have something to say, apparently has led people to divulge all kinds of things they should not. I have often wondered why people post those goofy drunken photos of themselves..don't their friends already know how they act when they are drunk?

In the past, if you had someone breach a confidence, it sort of ended with that small circle of friends & friends of friends, but now it's eternal and global.

[dusmcj]

40. it's in the public domain but on the other hand loser companies like that won't get the best people

they'll get the line toe-ers and conformists, and that tribe isn't what creates advances in business.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

44. oh yeah, I am sure this guy will be the next Warren Buffet, even includes his full name

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE9aCamP8i8&feature=related

What company wouldn't want to hire that kid!

[dusmcj]

46. you instead will hire good solid team players who know the Rules and are eager to participate. /nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

49. we hire people smart enough not to post obscenely incriminating videos on the internet

Our standards are pretty low, how else would I be employable.

But when you send us a link with videos of you fouling a parking lot or driving a car while your boyfriend shoots at cars with a paintball gun... yeah, we aren't hiring you.

[DireStrike]

41. As one of the people whose privacy is trampled on by this, I say no.

This is the reason I have to block outsiders from viewing my profile, and have to be careful what I even put in my profile pic.

Employers always go WAY TOO FAR in trying to figure out things about their employees. The only way to really know is to hire them and watch them work for a week or two. I lied my ass off about my motivation and a ton of other shit to get my current job. I spent half a day psyching myself into that bullshit state of mind... but I was told that I gave an exceptionally good interview.

The only thing you learn about candidates by trawling their personal pages is whether they are naive enough to think that people won't use whatever sparse nubs of information are available to draw poorly supported conclusions about what they are like as a worker. How stupid of them, to imagine employers won't do pointless and intrusive things! I'm quite sure my profile would disqualify me from more than a few jobs, and also quite sure that I'm one of the best workers in any work environment.

[JerseygirlCT]

43. Anything you put out there on the interwebs is fair game

You may want to pretend it's all private and personal, but if you commit it to something public like FB or a message board... be prepared to have it looked at.