Anyone here attended college in Canada? My kids are still young but I am

[GreenPartyVoter]

already talking with them about doing that. It seems to me that for American students the costs might be comparable if not less expensive (which is good because hubby and I have zero savings to help them out with), and the education quality even better. Frankly, if they married Canadians and wound up staying up there, I would be all right with that, but again that's forever away. :)

Any thoughts or experiences to share? I would hope they would attend in the Maritimes, Ontario, or Quebec since we live in Maine.

[DrDan]

1. McGill in Montreal is a top-notch university

plus Schwartz's is in the area . . . yummo - smoked meat sandwich with a great pickle . . .

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. I saw it ranked very high in several college lists. Did not see the bit about the sandwich, though.

LOL

[Tesha]

27. Only insiders are allowed to know about Schwartz's. You won't tell, right?

That's an absolutely standard stop for us whenever we're in Montreal.

And yes, McGill is a great place. Just be sure anyone applying there
understands that winter in Montreal can be, umm, "cold". Everything
in McGill is connected via underground tunnels, but if you're going to
go anywhere else (such as Schwartz's), you'll need to go outside at
least briefly, if only to get to the rest of Montreal's underground
tunnel system.

Concordia is also up there as is UQAM and the Universtity of Montreal
(but French will be required at those last two).

Tesha

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Well, they haven't been to high school yet so I am not sure if they will

be conversant in French by college or not. They are taking grade school classes now.

I have experienced the cold of Quebec winters, and yeah they are brutal!

[DrDan]

47. when visiting Montreal - don't miss it . . . and don't let the long line scare you away

You don't know who you will be sitting next to - but you will definitely have something in common (enjoying that sandwich)

http://www.schwartzsdeli.com/index_eng.html

[NOW tense]

2. Get them involved in curling now

maybe they can get a scholarship.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. LOL There is actually a curling club a few towns over. Not sure if it is

still in use, though.

[Dora]

3. I remember reading NYT article on this phenomenon.

The article was about American families sending their kids to college in Canada because it was cheaper than the Ivy League and of a comparable caliber. It's definitely an option that's worth serious consideration, IMO.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Yeah, I ran into several articles when I first plugged in the search words

"Americans attending college in Canada." They all seemed quite in favor of the idea.

[Cleita]

4. Uhmm, the question is if a degree from a foreign country will count

here if they choose to live and work in the USA. I think a lot of it depends on what vocation they choose. I have known friends who had teaching degrees from other countries and they had to do extra studies here to get their credentials. On the other hand I had friends who were nurses and they had no problem getting jobs in their fields. Of course we know that a degree from Cambridge in England or the Sorbonne in France is considered prestigious here. So you may want to have your kids research this.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. That's a good point, thanks. Probably still cheaper to go to Canada and then

pick up a few extra classes at home in most cases, I expect.

[rockymountaindem]

40. A degree from a Canadian school is considered just fine here

Those in the know realize that they are better than most US schools and equal to the very best. The University of Toronto scored 11th in the world on the THES peer review this year, and was 9th in the world in Arts and Humanities the year I graduated with my history degree.

[BigBluenoser]

9. I've gone to Uni and taught Uni in Canada...

It is fine. Would not be a problem if they weren't going to go to a top 25 college in the states anyway.

There are "Ivy" Canadian schools but in all honesty there is no where near the same level of distinction.

As international students they will at minimum pay 100% more than the Canadian tuition rate. They will also have to pay about $800 a term for health insurance through the school (this is what my wife would have to pay if she was a resident student). There will likely be a few other premiums as well. Canadian Unis love foreign students because they tend to be far more profitable than domestic ones and they are a growth market. The reason for this of course is that you and yours do not pay taxes in Canada, as such, the feds won't fund a portion of your kids tuition.

My experiences are on the East coast at Dalhousie U and Saint Mary's U in Halifax as as such I will only speak of those...

Parent/Student perspective: Halifax is a decent city. Good nightlife if you are a tippler or party animal. Good meat markets for the hook up, good folk and rock bands play the bars. Alternative scenes (metal etc.) are small but available. Fights are common, tho less frequent than in recent years. Low "culture" city, there is a theater, orchestra, decent jazz festival etc. but Haltown is what it is - a port city. Downtown is nice and pretty safe with lots of cool stuff to do. Outside downtown late at night you need to be careful and have good situational awareness. During the day time in most of the city/province you'd have to be looking for trouble to find it. That said there are a few "no go" zones for the foreigner in Halifax. The good thing is that there really is no reason to go to them and not too many kids will find themselves strolling through Highfield Park (Dartmouth side) or Fairview (Halifax side) without a local or in a group. I've lived all over the Halifax region and never had any serious trouble - and I lived in some dodgy areas - my North End appartment did get hit with bullets, and the corner store guy had his throat cut, but overall it is safe compared to many US cities. Both Schools are goods (went to both). Dalhousie is the better (best) school in terms of respectability for everything except business where Saint Mary's is better (and I would argue far better at delivering content). Dal has Med and Law, SMU is undergraduate in focus. Student body: Diverse but segregated. Tons of foreign students due to the need for bodies from the declining regional recruiting rates. Last time I checked SMU was 30% "International". Students tend to come in blocks: Caribbeans, ME and Mainland China. Birds of a feather do indeed flock together when it comes to campus activities, hang out areas, outside class friendships etc. but there is no overt hostility or anything and everyone gets along in class. The majority of the NS population is white with a good representation of local blacks and quite a few Lebanese (who do not tend to hang out with the ME students as they are almost universally Christian and not "foreign students", while the ME are Muslim). Not many US students, but a few.

Manners are a bit different and some of the locals are hard to understand at first. "Boy" (pronounced "Bai") is not an insult or racialized term in any way. Religion is pretty low key, and people don't talk about it much. Casual locker room homophobia and racism is the accepted vocabulary amongst young males but not a whole lot of overt hatred. Fighting is a sign of masculinity for a lot of east coasters. Soft drug use is rampant. Alcohol is consumed by the boat full. Crack, heroine etc. is common but hidden and you need to go looking for it.

The Pizza is good. Donairs are amazing but will give you the shits. Services are adequate. Public Transport is okayish. Certainly not world class, but the core of Halifax is pretty small. Restaurants are pretty good. Tim Hortons are everywhere.

Teaching: Kids are kids. They come in all sorts of levels. It is easier to teach in the US where english literacy is far better compared to what I am used to (due to huge numbers of Chinese students). Quality wise, you will find the average Canadian students on par with US students at mid-level private / public Universities in the states. Manners are a bit different and some of the locals are hard to understand at first. "Boy" (pronounced "Bai") is not an insult or racialized term in any way. Religion is pretty low key, and people don't talk about it much. Casual lockeroom homophobia and racism is the accepted vocabulary amongst young males but not a whole lot of overt hatred. Fighting is a sign of masculinity for a lot of east coasters. Soft drug use is rampant. Alcohol is consumed by the boat full. Crack, heroine etc. is common but hidden and you need to go looking for it.

Other Universities are in Province as well: Acadia, St. FX, and Mount St. Vincent's. The Mount is on the outskirts of Halifax near Bedford. Acadia is in the Valley, and St. FX is in Antigonish. Acadia is really pretty and a good school - pretty darn boring though. As is St. FX. These are smallish towns but they do cater to the University students and have some good pubs and such. Quality of education is, imho overrated, but they have been getting good press in the last decade.

Hope this helps for the schools in Nova Scotia.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. That is a great insider look, thank you! I will have to get back to you in another 4-5 years when

ElderGreenKid seriously starts looking at schools and see if anything has changed much. :)

[BigBluenoser]

13. Probably won't change much...

You're welcome. If I had to go to University anywhere in Canada it would be in Halifax just because of how much fun the pub/bar scene is.

One thing I forgot to mention... People are exceedingly friendly - and not in that "have a blessed day" or "I'm a sympathetic yuppie who feels for your plight" kind of way, but just friendly, loud and generous. Your kids would have a ton of friends - as long as they are willing to "go out" (aka party) and are not perceived as snobbish in any way. They can be teetotalers themselves (accepted) but not proselytizing ones :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Hubby and I went to N.S. for our honeymoon and loved it. We were only in Halifax for one night so

we didn't get to explore much, unfortunately, beyond having dinner at a place I think was called "The Blue Cactus." We found the province and its people to be a lot like Maine in many ways, so I don't think the kids would feel horribly out of place. (Although we've also visited New Brunswick one year and PEI another, which is where the 9 yr old says he should go to college. Guess that particular vacation really struck a note with him. LOL)

[Hippo_Tron]

10. My friend went to University of Toronto, dropped out and came back to the states

From the reasons he gave me, it sounds like it was nothing against Canada. Just cold and the school was too big and he had a hard time making friends. Seems like he would've had the same problems at say Ohio State or Michigan State.

I don't know what tuition is like at University of Maine, but generally in-state tuition is relatively low and some states don't make you pay at all if you have good grades. I was fortunate enough to have parents with the means to send me where I wanted to go but if I didn't I would've gone to LSU for free and been perfectly happy. You really can get just as good of an education at a state school as you can at a prestigious private school, you just have to seek out the opportunities on your own.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. UofME isn't bad. I went to one of their branches many moons ago. But honestly half

my reason for considering Canadian schools is that it might be a good way to get my kids out of this country if things keep spiraling downward. :( Their paternal grandmother was from up there and in fact their grandfather met her at college. LOL They came back to the States, though, instead of choosing to remain up there. (And weirdly, my husband does not have dual citizenship, but his brother, who is ten years younger, does.)

[MellowDem]

29. Your political views...

shouldn't be a factor in where your kids go to college. In fact, you probably shouldn't be pushing them out of the country for ideological reasons period. It is their lives and you will be best off finding out what they want first and then working from there.

The US college system is amongst the best in the world. Going out of the country won't make much of a difference in cost and you have some good colleges right there in Maine or elsewhere in the States.

Still, it comes across as incredibly selfish and shortsighted to be pushing your kids towards a certain college because the end of the world is nigh in your opinion.

[Tesha]

30. You don't sound very mellow. I think the OP's point-of-view is entirely sensible.

In these days, this sort of "insurance" can be very valuable.

Tesha

[MellowDem]

31. I think it's rather authoritarian...

for a parent to push their young children towards any college because of their own worldviews. I don't see much "insurance" in going to college in Canada either. Really, I think it's a much greater risk to make a kid go to a college of your choice rather than letting them choose. A lot of people who go to college don't graduate, and happiness with your choice of college is pretty paramount.

I'm glad my parents let me make my own mind up and didn't fill my head with their own demons when I was young and impressionable.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. The only

demons I am "filling" them with are the reality of life with college loans hanging over you and health insurance rapidly zooming out of reach for many people. And I don't mean I am lecturing them on it; they can see it in the quality of their own lives in terms of how our finances are. And if we weren't on MaineCare we would definitely be uninsured because my husband is self-employed.

I do have to ask, where are you getting this stuff about my demons and authoritarian bent? I said the country is spiraling downward (there is less money around and you get less for the money you do have) and that somehow means I'm ranting and raving at my kids. Which I am not. I said I was talking to them and that's what it meant, "talking" as in having a discussion of ideas. (Say, your extreme reaction to my post doesn't have anything to do with my choice of political party, does it?)

[MellowDem]

42. My reaction has nothing to do...

with your political party and I'm sorry if it came off as extreme. It wasn't my intention. We are in the worst recession since the great depression (though, technically, we are now out of it), which, if you are choosing to go to college now, will probably have an impact on where you decide to go to college. But with college far off, you shouldn't be limiting options based on conditions now. And if my parents told me the country was "spiraling downwards" as a kid, it would've kind of scared and depressed me to say the least, which isn't how you want to go into the college selection process. I understand talking to your kids about the reality of life in general, but spiraling health costs now and the very real possibility of college loan debt won't be the end of the world and shouldn't effect their choice of colleges, especially with it being so far off.

To me, it does seem rather extreme to be thinking of college options far off based on rather broad world conditions that no one can predict. Not "crazy" or anything, but certainly not a good priority to be thinking about.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. It's all right. I am understanding your points more clearly now. (And I apologize for

making an assumption that you were making assumptions of your own re: my political party/views. I just couldn't figure out where you were coming from and that was what made the most sense to me at the time. :)

I'm certainly not looking into early enrollment now or anything. LOL But up until yesterday the idea of the kids going to school in Canada hadn't occurred to me and once I started to look into it it seemed like there's a growing trend of Americans going up there for school. Just wanted to get an idea of what the experiences were like to keep tucked away in the back of my mind so that in a few more years when ElderGreenKid starts thinking about college we can bring that back out and take another look at the possibility. Right now all he needs to think about is continuing to do a great job with learning.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. Thanks. :^)

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Look, my husband is still dragging around college loans from 15 years ago. I have been watching

the health care costs in this country skyrocket. Neither of those have anything to do with my political view. It's just a fact that life is expensive here and there's not much money to be had these days.

If there is one thing that my political views would want them out of the country for, it's the possibility of the wars sucking them in. If that looks to be the case, I'd try to ship them off to Canada anyway, college notwithstanding.

Finally, of course what they want will factor into the situation. I'd like to know where I said that I _demanded_ they attend any one certain college anywhere? I'm just looking into all the options.

[MellowDem]

38. I don't think you're demanding them...

but trying to convince them at a younger age can have a pretty big influence on how they think about it growing up. Your experience or your husband's experience going to college will be different from your children's. If you want them to have the greatest amount of options, just stress the importance of high school grades which have a big influence on things like scholarships.

When it comes to helping your kid's decide where to go to college, the current health care costs of the country isn't one of the priorities to be thinking about. Nor is the cost of living, which varies widely in the US and Canada. Those are pretty broad things which will likely change over the years and you can't really predict anyways. The most important factor is whether your kid thinks they will be able to succeed at a college and have a good, balanced social and academic life. Then finances and location etc. etc. If they won't be happy there or aren't getting the proper academic support, then the cost of the college really won't matter since they won't be graduating anyways. Student loan debt is the best kind of debt you can have, it's the diploma at the end that is the most important thing to have.

I've seen fellow students who have gone to a certain college because their parents were stressing it from a young age for one reason or another, and few of them stayed to graduate. Some thought college was all about the alumni tradition, or cost, or location even, but when they got there they realized that that's not what's really important about it and they usually transferred or just dropped out.

I totally think you should help present all the options possible to your kids, but from your OP it sounded like you were trying to convince them before they really know what their options are, as they'll probably be halfway through high school before what is possible college-wise starts to become clearer. And a lot of your reasoning was based on rather broad and unpredictable topics such as economics or government policy.

[MellowDem]

39. I don't think you're demanding them...

but trying to convince them at a younger age can have a pretty big influence on how they think about it growing up. Your experience or your husband's experience going to college will be different from your children's. If you want them to have the greatest amount of options, just stress the importance of high school grades which have a big influence on things like scholarships.

When it comes to helping your kid's decide where to go to college, the current health care costs of the country isn't one of the priorities to be thinking about. Nor is the cost of living, which varies widely in the US and Canada. Those are pretty broad things which will likely change over the years and you can't really predict anyways. The most important factor is whether your kid thinks they will be able to succeed at a college and have a good, balanced social and academic life. Then finances and location etc. etc. If they won't be happy there or aren't getting the proper academic support, then the cost of the college really won't matter since they won't be graduating anyways. Student loan debt is the best kind of debt you can have, it's the diploma at the end that is the most important thing to have.

I've seen fellow students who have gone to a certain college because their parents were stressing it from a young age for one reason or another, and few of them stayed to graduate. Some thought college was all about the alumni tradition, or cost, or location even, but when they got there they realized that that's not what's really important about it and they usually transferred or just dropped out.

I totally think you should help present all the options possible to your kids, but from your OP it sounded like you were trying to convince them before they really know what their options are, as they'll probably be halfway through high school before what is possible college-wise starts to become clearer. And a lot of your reasoning was based on rather broad and unpredictable topics such as economics or government policy.

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. While they are broad topics they still matter even if they might change down the road. Will they

change fast enough and in a favorable direction prior to looking into colleges? Maybe, but I am not holding my breath. :(

One thing I will never do is force them to attend a specific school. My husband was only allowed to attend an evangelical college, and even then he had to fight to get the one he wanted instead of having to attend the same Bible college his parents went to, the only school they approved of. (Whereas my dad said I could go anywhere I wanted, provided it wasn't a Xian school.) The top priority is of course getting them into a school that they want to attend, but I won't let them just dive into picking a school without looking at all sides of the picture. If they can get to Harvard on a scholarship, great. If they can't, then maybe that's not going to work out for them if they don't want to have a millstone of major financial debt weighing them down from the moment they reach adulthood. It's just no way to start a life and I envy those kids who live in countries where they don't pay out of pocket for their educations.

My guys may be young, but they are smart and pretty darn sure of themselves all things considered. As of today the eldest one is interested in poli-sci and law (not my doing, he just discovered that he enjoys those subjects) and the youngest in geography. 3-6 years from now, who knows? and 2 years after that? Still anyone's guess. (I changed majors mid-stream myself. :) )

[SidDithers]

15. University of Toronto 1992 grad here...

can't write now, but I'll come back to the thread tonight :hi:

Sid

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Thanks, Sid. Looking forward to it. :^)

[SidDithers]

48. From a slightly biased perspective...

because I'm Canadian, and both a graduate and former employee of the Canadian university system, there are Canadian universities which would provide an education equal to just about any school in the world. Because our population is smaller, many of our universities specialize in one field of study or another. Some of the smaller universities are for undergraduates only. And there are a few that are major universities, with undergraduate and graduate programs, and research departments on the cutting edge in Medicine, Engineering, Information Tech and a host of other disciplines. There are probably half-a-dozen truly world-class universities, but dozens of others that would offer an exceptional education and university experience. Choice of school very much depends on the interests of the student.

If you or your kids are really serious about Canadian universities, MacLeans magazine does an annual ranking of Canadian universities. The site is here: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/rankings/ but you might have to find a copy of the magazine at a library, or order a copy from the publisher. I don't think they publish all of the details online for free.

Usually, at the top of the pile of all-around schools, with graduate and undergraduate programs and medical schools, are McGill in Montreal, University of Toronto, and University of British Colombia in Vancouver and the University of Alberta in Edmonton, and Queen's in Kingston. McGill, UofT and UBC are located in Canada's 3 biggest cities, with all of the good and bad that go with big cities. Montreal is a very cosmopolitain city, Vancouver is laid-back and stunning in it's beauty, Peter Ustinov once called Toronto "New York, if it were run by the Swiss" Edmonton is in pretty far north, in Alberta, which is Canada's most conservative province. I've had friends who lived in Edmonton and loved the experience, but it's not for everyone. Winters are long and cold (well, fucking cold is probably more accurate), but in the summer, you can play golf until 11:00 pm, because the days are so long. Kingston is a great university town, also home to our Royal Military College. The town is on the banks of the St. Lawrence, at the eastern end of Lake Ontario. A truly lovely town.

The University of Waterloo, in Waterloo, specializes in technology related studies, and is Canada's most innovative university. Waterloo is the world headquarters for Research in Motion, the makers of the Blackberry. It's also the heart of Oktoberfest country, lots of beer and bratwurst.

Another poster upthread talked about universities in Eastern Canada, Dalhousie, Mount Allison, University of New Brunswick, UPEI are all excellent choices, depending upon what your kids are seeking. In Western Canada, good choices are the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg, the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, and the Universtiy of Calgary. Again, it depends on the interests of your kids, and what type of university experience they want.

Really, there's too much to detail for a single post. Your best bet is to find that MacLean's magazine University Rankings. They've been doing it for the last 18 years, and they break the schools out into different categories, so the comparisons are fair.

Lastly, Canadian universities don't have nearly the same emphasis on athletic progams that American universities do. There won't be 108,000 people watching a football game, like at the University of Michigan, or atmosphere like at a Duke basketball game. We do have competitive athletics programs, but the scale is much smaller than at US schools. Just something to be aware of.

I'm happy to answer questions if you or your kids have 'em.

Sid

[Gwendolyn]

16. McGill is a great school if you're thinking of Montreal as an option.

We have family there, and I've spent lots of time in the area. You already have lots of info on tuition upthread, and like Halifax, Montreal is a great, friendly city with an excellent social scene on the Plateau just off McGill. Because of the fair amount of imported students there's lots of English spoken and a complex called la Cite near the uni features an underground mall with gym, shopping, and a Help! Send Money Now Western Union. A hotel across the street is now a spanky converted dorm.

There are great apartments to be had in the area on the cheap, and in fact, because real estate is relatively inexpensive, lots of families have invested in small condos to facilitate visiting. Your kids would pick up at least some French and soak up a little European-style culture as a bonus, and there's ample to see and experience during off time. The Main is dotted with excellent inexpensive restos and bars. There are extensive bike paths and skiing is only an hour away in the winter. Stowe is about 2 1/2 hours away. Boston is an easy 5 1/2.

Last time I was in town I went to the gym at la Cite and followed behind an American dude who was taking two new students on a tour. He was telling them how weird it was that stores close at 6 (that's 18:00 in Quebec) but how eventually "you get used to it." I kind of smiled because escaping from 24/7 hyper-consumerism is actually nice. Good luck to your family!

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. I've only been to Montreal once, but I recall visiting la Cite. :^) It was very cool. I wish I had

had more time to spend in Montreal besides visiting La Cite and the Olympic area.

[eShirl]

17. a Maine hs friend of mine who could have gone anywhere chose McGill

knowing her tastes it must be very good for artsy, intelligent, multicultural people

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Thanks. I've seen several websites prasing McGill. :^)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

18. Attended college in Victoria, B.C.

Great teachers. Motivated students... mostly. :9

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Heheh. I think it's beautiful out there and I wouldn't blame my guys

if they wanted to be in that area. But I would hate for them to be so far away. :(

[Fire1]

19. Education quality better? I can't agree on that one. n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. I am sure some colleges in Canada are better than some here. I'm not necessarily trying to compare

them all to our Ivy league schools.

[Prometheus Bound]

25. My son just graduated from Queens in Kingston Ontario.

We visited almost every university in Ontario before deciding. It was a great decision. Beautiful campus, lovely university town. Great reputation. Good teachers. It was basically perfect.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. Sounds great. Out of curiosity, may I ask what his major was? :^)

[Prometheus Bound]

28. Double major

Political Science and Film Studies

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Very cool. :^) Is he planning on using them toegether to make political documentaries?

[applegrove]

37. I went to Dalhousie in Halifax. Halifax is a great university town. They also have good graduate

programs at Dal.

McGill University in Montreal always has alot of American students.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. I was telling someone upthread I'd only been to Halifax for a couple days a long time ago but

it struck me as a nice town. A city without being hugely overwhelming if you don't care for a _really_ large metropolis. :)

[applegrove]

49. Downtown Halifax is a short walk from campus and it is a pretty safe walk too.

I had a great time there with my friends. The band/bar scene was wonderful. Haligonians are nice, nice people.

[Odin2005]

45. I have a friend who is studying at a small college in eastern Quebec.

Can't remember the name of the university, but it's in a French-speaking college town east of Montreal about where the St. Lawrence River widens out into an estuary. She's E-mailed me that she's been having the time of her life.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Glad she is enjoying it. :^) Sounds like a nice area out there.