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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 10:57 AM
Original message
If the Congressional Progressive Caucus Were Progressive
The Congressional Progressive Caucus has 82 members, 81 in the House and 1 in the Senate, but has taken the anti-progressive onslaught of recent years lying down. The CPC can be counted on to say some pleasant things, but in the end 1 or 2 or 8 or 14 of its members will vote a progressive position. Almost never will the CPC attempt to organize its members to all take a stand. When it did organize 90 members to sign a letter to President Bush "opposing" war funding, virtually all of them turned around and voted for the funding.

Some observers held out hope that change might be on the way when Congressman Raul Grijalva this year took over one of the caucus's two Co-Chair positions. But change hasn't arrived yet, and Grijalva has made clear that he will sit by and wait for the president to deliver it. This is disconcerting, to put it mildly, for citizens who thought the role of a caucus of congress members might involve action as well as commentary.

Here's an audio clip of an interview that Congressman Grijalva just did with Air America radio host Nicole Sandler. In it he blames the "leadership and the White House" for "prematurely" deciding to "take single-payer off the table." He does not mention the fact that the CPC obediently fell in line, that the CPC agreed to not say a word about what most of its members and most Americans support. Astroturfing activist groups and labor unions took their lead from the CPC in self-censoring single-payer talk and pretending that the "public option" was not only something they would settle for, but their ideal. Of course, this was premature. Of course, it transformed a miserable compromise -- the "public option" -- from a center-right "middle-ground" to the extreme left side of the debate. Of course, this resulted in a further compromise rightward from there. But what good does it do us to have someone in a key position of responsibility talk as if he is one of us on the outside looking in?

Well, to Grijalva's credit, with help from other CPC members like Donna Edwards, and with a lot of pushing by activists and bloggers, the CPC -- together with other caucuses -- took a stand for the miserable compromise. In July, 57 congress members signed a letter saying that they would "regard as unacceptable" any healthcare bill without a public option tied to Medicare rates. This month 55 of them voted for such a bill, whether or not they "regarded it as unacceptable." And progressives in Congress wonder why nobody pays any attention to what they say.

Grijalva tells Sandler that he was not "satisfied" with the bill but wanted it to "move on." The bill was already worse than what he and 56 others had said they could not accept, and everyone knew the Senate would only worsen it further. But Grijalva offers his pessimistic expectations of the Senate as precisely the reason he backed a bill he "opposed." Since he expects a Senate bill to include no public option at all, or one with triggers and opt-out clauses that, in his words, "effectively kill" the public option, he chose to back a House bill that at least contained some pathetic semblance of a public option, albeit one designed to reach 2 percent of Americans without even its rates publicly determined.

Grijalva says he wanted to "have a dog in the fight." Well, it's a dog for sure, but what sense can be made of this strategy? The Senate cannot legislate without the House. Either the House has a dog in the fight or there is no fight. You can claim to have changed your view and to have determined that a lousy bill is really the best bill possible, and you can claim that such a bill is better than nothing. I happen to disagree in this case, but let’s allow those claims. None of that alters the fact that when you take a stand on something, and the whole world expects you to roll over, and you do so, the result is to make yourself a dog without any fight in him, a dog unworthy of even a passing kick from the people who run the country.

Adding insult to injury, the Democratic "leadership" made a major last-minute concession to those Democrats who do take stands, passing an amendment restricting women's right to abortion, and the CPC went happily along with it. Grijalva tells Sandler that his own daughter told him he had sacrificed women's rights, and he "didn't have a good answer for that." Let me give you a suggestion for next time, Congressman, VOTE NO and whip your caucus to do the same. If you only want to be a spectator, get off the damn field.

Grijalva tries, in this interview, to grab a little credit for Congressman Dennis Kucinich's short-lived amendment that would have made it more feasible for states to solve the healthcare crisis without Washington. "I have nothing but admiration for Dennis' stand on that," Grijalva says. But what if he'd had more than admiration? What if he'd done something? For the past four months, the CPC has refused to support keeping that amendment in the bill. When they held a press conference in July to announce their 57-member letter (which 55 of them would go back on, the two exceptions being Eric Massa and -- in fact -- Dennis Kucinich) the CPC refused to include Kucinich or mention of his amendment in the event.

Grijalva says that he understands why Democratic voters stay home in elections, but does he? He has the unmitigated imperialistic gall to complain that the president has failed to draw a line on progressive issues or to take a stand for majority positions. Well, what in the name of all that is decent and good, is the purpose of a Congressional Progressive Caucus if not to draw a line and take a stand for progressive legislation? Even when they disagree with the president, the Blue Dogs still fight for their destructive proposals. What is Raul waiting for?

If it's a written invitation, here's one. Congressman, you have 57 names committed to voting No on any bill as bad as the current House one, and the Senate is going to make it worse. There is reportedly a letter with at least 41 House members' names swearing they'll vote no on a bill (like the one they just voted yes on) that includes the abortion amendment. You have a pledge from a dozen members committed to opposing any bill in which the public option is reduced by triggers or opt-outs, much less both. You may only need a dozen votes to block this bill when it comes back to the House.

If you do so, then for the first time progressives will have to be listened to. The next attempt to reform healthcare will have to include progressive ideas. Legislation on any other issue will have to include progressive ideas. Commitments to vote No on war funding will have to be treated as if those making them might actually be serious. Washington and the world will change for the better if for once you take a stand on something and follow through.

David Swanson is the author of the new book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press. You can order it and find out when tour will be in your town: http://davidswanson.org/book
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. nobody is progressive enough for DU except Kucinich.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. so should we change congress
or change DU?

I like DU
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Of course. Because it's just words here.
No action, nothing to accomplish, no hard decisions to make, no need to compromise or do anything you really don't want to do.

And, it's not as if you're doing anything to change Congress.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. And the implication is that it is always the PC that should accept the hard choice of capitulation?
Never the "leadership" of the party that should give ground. The old Clinton era technique of "we'll show the right-of-center voters how centrist we are by constantly undermining anything progressive... and that way we won't be burdened with the Liberal-Label that the Right has placed upon us..."? Of course, in so doing, the Democratic Party is making the "hard choice" of essentially becoming the "Moderate Republican Party"- in as much as it now represents the same policies that the Moderate Wing of the Republican Party represented 20 years ago.

Well, I'd like to see the Moderate Republican Party (D) have to make the tough choice of whether or not they are willing to lose progressive support for their "policy initiatives" (which seem to always just morph into another attempt to steal voters from further and further on the Right... not by convincing them of the validity of Centrist or Leftist policy, but rather by bribing them with more and more Rightist policies).
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. it's not capitulation if you get 75% of what you want.
Swanson et al act as if we don't live in a democracy where people disagree with us
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. Fine, then let the leadership capitulate to the Left, and settle for only 75% of what they want.
Which would be a robust public option, while retaining private insurers, rather than going "Full Single Payer". You know, like what Obama campaigned on...

Now who's acting like we don't live in a democracy where people disagree with us?
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. I don't even like Kucinich that much, but I'll call out a talking point when I see one.
It's more disturbing that the DLC will send their bots out to try and brand the left as teabaggers, than any one particular criticism of Dennis Kucinich, some of which I agree with.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Good god, such paranoia about a has-been org like the DLC
If you think the DLC and the CPC are in some kind of conspiracy together . . .
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. I think the DLC has a strong presence in the White House, like everyone else in reality.
Nice try, branding me with the c-word.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. The DLC is a bunch of has-beens.
They have no mojo, no juice, nothing.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:59 AM
Original message
Who currently dominate the Obama administration.
As well as these healthcare threads.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. You define everyone who disagrees with you as 'DLC'
so naturally you find yourself surrounded by DLC'ers.

Get a better, more frightening bogeyman than a bunch of eunuchs like Harold Ford and Al From.

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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. No, just you guys repeating the same talking points over, and over, and over
Who comes on DU to start 50 threads bashing Dennis Kucinich, all using the EXACT same language?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. People who get really aggravated about the false ideal
that people here use--that the guy who says all the right things but gets NOTHING done is the standard by which to judge everyone.

There's a reason you don't see people bashing Barbara Lee or Sherrod Brown or Bernie Sanders.

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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Dupe nt
Edited on Thu Nov-12-09 12:00 PM by rudy23
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Heck we'd run the CPC out on a rail if they started posting here.
I wonder if they would use the "but we have to get elected" and "we're responsible for making things happen, not just talking ideological purity" excuses for why they aren't progressive enough for DU. Those are so lame, don't you think? ;)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. you got it right
. . . those 'pledges' became outright lies. Almost every PO member who voted for the rag admit they didn't get what the promised to hold out for in that bill. They are only as good as their word.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. It was a negotiating tactic.
The CPC's actions actually have consequences. People like David Swanson have neither actions nor are they of any consequence.

It's really easy to sit on the sidelines and complain when your opinion doesn't mean anything and what you advocate has no chance of ever happening.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Every member said the bill 'needs work'
Edited on Thu Nov-12-09 11:08 AM by bigtree
Where will that happen? I don't understand a 'negotiating tactic' which lays down and admits defeat on pledged promises, expecting to nonetheless succeed. Maybe you can tell me where their 'negotiations' will lead them from here? To knuckle-under again when the conference report rolls around?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. They were bluffing, but were able to bluff the blue dogs
into letting a public option--without triggers and without an opt-out/opt-in clause--into the bill.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. they allowed a weakened PO to pass and they have no clue how to prevent it from eroding further
. . . in the Senate. That's poor strategy, if in fact they expected the PO to prevail. Read the comments from the PC members who voted. In no way are they claiming that the PO they passed was adequate.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. What matters is what is the best deal that can pass.
Again, it's real easy to say "insufficiently pure, I reject it" when your vote doesn't mean anything and you really don't care if any legislation passes.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. you haven't taken the counterproductive effect of bad legislation into account
The way the bill is structured has been explained by critics as actually threatening the goals of keeping premiums low, and providing protection from the destructive or discriminative will and whims of the insurance and drug industry.

This isn't something new in Congress - to take a worthwhile goal and bend it to interests which are antithetical to the very promises which spurred them to action. The 'Patriot Act'. The 'No Child Left Behind Bill'. 'Operation Freedom". Just 'passing' something out of Congress shouldn't be our aim. Passing adequate, effective, and responsible legislation is more important than just working to spike the ball in the end-zone.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. And others have explained how it does control costs.
The truth is, the emphasis has been on expanding coverage. You know, the moral and humanitarian imperative.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. the goal was to expand access to coverage
. . . the costs are critical to that effort - and as for those expectations in the bill that passed, reasonable people can disagree as to the potential for the success of the HHS 'negotiating rates', the likelihood that the FTC will be able or willing to effectively enforce the regulations proscribed, and the actual competition that the PO they've agreed to would provide against the insurance and drug industry.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Do you know what a medical loss ratio is?
The legislation contains costs in ways besides the public option.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I heard more than one PC member who voted for the bill say that the PO was vital
Edited on Thu Nov-12-09 01:10 PM by bigtree
. . . to effective cost reduction (and that the one they passed 'needs work').

As with the other provisions, the MLR deals with how much the insurance co. will be able to raise premiums without govt. permission and seeks to limit or control how much profit the industry might claim above what they spend on actual health care. Again, reasonable people can certainly disagree about the prospect that the HHS will manage that regulation effectively and whether there's enough of a loophole for the industry to keep hiking prices using service costs as justification. At any rate, there's no substitute for the effect that true competition would bear on those premiums. That's why there's such an intense focus from both sides to manage that aspect of the bill.

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. There are two tracks here--a public competitor and the other
track is where we convert the insurance companies into de facto utilities.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. looked at your utility bill lately?
. . . how regulating them working out? Most promising efforts now (in my state) to rein in their cost monopoly are focused on generating competition.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Which is why we should try to do both.
But, it doesn't make sense to say "well, the competition thing isn't going to work out quite as planned, so we should ditch the increased regulation too"
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. a negotiating tactic?
in which you promise to oppose something, nobody believes you, and you don't oppose it?

how well's that gonna work next time?

exactly as well as it did this time
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. They had more success than your impeachment movement did.
They actually got a public option approved by one House of Congress.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Blue Dogs have spines. The Progressive Caucus does not
That's why the Blue Dogs win and the Progressive Caucus loses.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The CPC got a public option included in the House bill.
They negotiated successfully. the Blue Dogs were opposed to any public option at all.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. The Progressives wanted a public option which paid the Medicare rate plus 5%
Moderates wanted the government to negotiate rates with doctors and hospitals. Guess who won that battle:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/65231-negotiated-rate-healthcare-bill-to-be-presented-to-house-dems-thursday
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The ConservaDems wanted NO public option at all.
So, in the end, there was compromise within the democratic party.

Which is how democracies work.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Not true. Many Blue Bogs supported a public option, just not one that would harm doctors and
hospitals, or that would cost too much.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Many Blue Dogs?
Nope. They were negotiating as a bloc too.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. The blue dogs wanted the status quo
We got a public option, and the entire progressive caucus found merit in that as opposed to a bill that included a trigger, co-ops or no public option.

What so hard to understand?

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. That it wasn't a pure bill, ergo the peanut gallery is
griping and whining and acting like they have the answers.

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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Well
that and there are more of us Freddie.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. No, Blue Dogs have no real desire to do anything so they have nothing to lose
The Progressive Caucus is stuck wanting and needing to accomplish things and since everyone knows that they automatically and always start in a hole.

The easiest vote in Congress is always "nay" because Republicans, Confederates, and conservatives pay no price for obstruction. Its silly for people to continuously ignore this dynamic that has been in place for many years...It is always easier to do nothing or even destroy than to build anything.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. A nice summary of a sellout and the excuses for it. K&R
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. thanks
and i realize you are describing the comments above :-)
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. If only they Would take a stand
... then they mantra of "the left will fall in line, they always do" might finally change.

The only reason that there is ANY public option in the bill seems to have been the 57 congresspeople who pledged not to pass anything with it in. If only they would really stand up when the reconciliation portion of the process happens, something that doesn't suck might come out of this.

The progressive caucus needs to learn to see the Democratic Party as a sort of "coalition party"... and they need to stick together to make sure that the leadership concedes ground on "progressive issues"- because it's obvious that the White House is willing to piss on "progressive issues" if it will steal a % or 2 of voters from the "right of center" independents/republicans. If that means that the Progressive Caucus has to kill something dear to the White House, in order to show that they will not be ignored anymore... I'm all for it.

All you militant centrists and goose stepping loyalists can kiss my hairy ass. I don't give a shit about the Democratic Party for the Democratic Party's sake... I only give 2 shits about the Democratic Party if it can be used as a vehicle for moving a Progressive (or even Leftist) Agenda.

The public option, with full and equal coverage for men and women, was the compromise the Left was willing to make- and compared with Single Payer it is a huge compromise. Now it's time for the Progressive Caucus to stand up for the progressive wing of the party.

It's time the party throw us a bone already...
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. tell it
brother
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
25. Congrats, Dave. You're more progressive than anybody.
;)
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. A very important post - thank you

Kick & recommend.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. If you don't think the Progressive Caucus if progressive, maybe you went off the rails and not them
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Funny how it's always the people with ZERO accomplishments
who are questioning the credentials of people with them.

If only Raul Grijalva were content to blog instead of act, maybe he would maintain his precious purity.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. And who define what is or is not "progressive" -- usually
"not progressive" now means "disagrees with me on anything."
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. it means 'they didn't give me my pony'
the dynamic is like children complaining about their parents

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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. "I didn't get my pony" for 200 points! Naderite! Left-wing teabaggers!
Keep catapulting the propaganda, Rovebots! I mean, Rahmbots!
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. I'm defending the most progressive members of Congress.
If you think defending Raul Grijalva is something only rightwing plants would do, you need better drugs.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
50. "Ignored" is very prolific on this thread
I wonder why...
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 02:08 PM
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55. "Well, what in the name of all that is decent and good, is the purpose
of a Congressional Progressive Caucus if not to draw a line and take a stand for progressive legislation?"

Exactly.
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