What about women who can't even afford a few hundred bux? Or have no Planned Parenthood close by?

[Stinky The Clown]

I recall (first hand because I was affected by it) when we had to cross state lines to get the first legal abortions.

If this shit bill goes through, those will be the good old days. I thought I could remove this from my car when bush left office.



Why do we have to fight the same fights we did last administration? Last decade? Last quarter century? Last half century?

Why do we have to give up ground to get something else?

Is decency what is REALLY being rationed here?

[Ken Burch]

1. Oh, those women are just a "special interest group"

They should take half a loaf for the greater good and be happy to throw themselves under the bus.

:sarcasm:

Besides, they can still take the ferry to England if they need an abortion(oh, wait, that's some OTHER country where they can do that).

[sandnsea]

2. It Will Be Like It Is RIGHT NOW

Except these women will ALL have access to birth control coverage which will prevent the need for abortions in the first place.

Gaaa.

[HughMoran]

5. I keep wondering how this bill changes or makes it worse than it is now?

I'm not for this stupid ass amendment, but I guess I'm missing something here.

[sandnsea]

9. Without Stupak, Hyde is overturned

And that's what women's groups were trying to accomplish with this legislation. They lost.

Stupak will accept an abortion rider funded completely separately of exchange policies. I don't know why women's groups won't.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. I've explained, repeatedly, why women's groups won't accept it.

Because it's an insult and women won't sign up for it.

[sandnsea]

14. I disagree and it is no insult n/t

[bain_sidhe]

20. Bullshit

You've made this "point" on several threads that I've seen, and it's just not true. The Hyde Amendment prevents federal funds from being used to pay for abortions. That restriction remained in the bill. The Hyde Amendment was never in danger of being overturned from this bill.

[sandnsea]

25. No, the bill would only apply to Medicaid

direct federal funding.

It would specifically allow ALL abortion in the exchange and public option. That is overturning Hyde. Which I would be fine with, btw, it's just that we lost.

On to another solution.

[bain_sidhe]

36. That's all the Hyde Amendment applies to now.

I.O.W., no change. Even the Congressional "exchange" has plans that offer abortion coverage, and that is also taxpayer subsidized.

[bain_sidhe]

44. My mistake...

According to this NYT article, the federal employees’ health insurance plan does not cover abortion.

Hey, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[tonysam]

48. Thanks for mentioning the Hyde Amendment

The amendment is legal, and until the USSC overturns its previous ruling, it'll still remain law.

[cap]

47. because many women do not make a lot of money ... many women are dependent on a spouse's income

many women could not get the mail from their abortion providing insurance company without a disapproving spouse knowing what is going on.

It is not something that can get split out so easily.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. You're not old enough to recall the bad old days, are you?

Birth control?

Give me a break. Please.

[sandnsea]

8. I don't understand what you think is going to happen

NOTHING will have changed. NOTHING.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. The. Bill. Makes. Abortion. Funding. Illegal.

You quite likely capable of reading and of comprehension.

Read what some others are saying about this. Not just me. I know it is hard for the hard core to apply critical thinking, but there it is.

Abortions. Will. Be. Unavailable. To. Millions. Of. Women.

Just like the old days, which may soon be the good old days.

[sandnsea]

15. Federal Abortion Funding Is Already Illegal

These women don't have funding now. Hello???

[HughMoran]

23. Why am I shaking my head here in disbelief?

Seriously, what is going on here - if it's no different that it is now, why is it such an awful defeat. I don't support what that ass-hole did, but why can't anybody clearly enunciate how this changes what we have now?

[sandnsea]

27. They're just making it up

It was a political maneuver, which is fine -- but goddammit when you lose, you lose. Move on and figure out the next best thing to help people.

[HughMoran]

34. I guess obcessing and screaming that the "bill is a steaming pile of crap"

...makes them happy? I know some here get orgasmic about making people feel hopeless and depressed.

[Ken Burch]

38. Then again, you'd back the bill without any public option

even though it wouldn't mean anything to anyone without that. Even though Reagan would sign it without that.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. He's going to save $25000, dontchaknow.

Or so he thinks. That's all that matters.

[HughMoran]

40. Lol - I've posted dozens of times that "no public option, no reform"

Making up a FUCKING LIE to suit your argument is very very small of you.

[Posteritatis]

16. Hell, it makes *private* abortion funding illegal, no?

Isn't the rule that if an insurance company has even one subsidized customer, and let's say for the sake of discussion it's a sterile, celibate male to make any involvement in the issue even more remote for him, that means the company cannot cover abortion services for any of its customers?

[sandnsea]

19. Which is why we need a rider

So that abortion funding is not included in the administration of the subsidized plans.

[Hello_Kitty]

24. Yep. eom

[Hello_Kitty]

18. It's rather unbelievable how obtuse people can be.

Why would forced birthers want this amendment? For the same reason they pass ANY laws that restrict women's access to reproductive health care. It's a foot in the door. Their goal is to ban abortion and contraception. Period. It's why you NEVER compromise with them.

[Hello_Kitty]

26. Why should you care anyway? You're going to save $25000.

Or so you think.

And that's all that matters.

[sandnsea]

29. I'm the one proposing a solution

I'm proposing men take responsibility for pregnancy and abortion. And I'm 52 years old and never going to get pregnant again.

So what the fucking hell are you talking about?

God you're pathetically useless.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Until the fundies successfully lobby to expand the Stupak Amendment

To exclude any forms of contraception they deem to be "abortifacient". IOW, most forms of contraception used by women.

[sandnsea]

22. But that's not today. Can we deal with today? n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

31. I am dealing with today.

I don't compromise with forced birther fuckbags TODAY.

I won't compromise with forced birther fuckbags TOMORROW.

I won't compromise with forced birther fuckbags, EVER.


Anti-abortion laws kill women.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

45. Exactly. Again, much of DU is out of touch

They don't understand what poor/uninsured women have been facing all along. Hopefully Stupak's amendment will be defeated, but if not, the worst case scenario will still be better than what the situation is now (no insurance at all).

[noamnety]

3. That was an argument in Roe v. Wade

Roe could have gone to another state for a legal abortion - but she couldn't afford it.

People have short memories.

[chimpymustgo]

21. THank you.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. And what about those "medically necessary" procedures?

Will doctors have to go before specially appointed Stupak Boards to prove that the abortion they are about to perform to save a woman's life is really and ectopic pregnancy?

Or how about those "elective" abortions given to women who find out their fetus is severely deformed or has Down's Syndrome? No coverage for them? Gee, that'll be expensive, considering those abortions tend to be performed at a later stage in the pregnancy.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Two words: "Tough Shit"

Or thee words: "Deal With, It"

Or three words to add civility: "Tough Shit, Lady"

[TwilightGardener]

28. An ectopic pregnancy cannot result in abortion--it's not a viable pregnancy

at all. It's simply a life-threatening medical condition.

[Posteritatis]

32. That makes no difference to some of the anti-abortion crusaders

A friend of mine had an ectopic pregnancy, and caught all kinds of hell from a variety of directions when she got it treated, despite people knowing what was the case. She was messed up for a few years after it; I'm still kind of pissed.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Well, they're clearly idiots, then, as they usually are.

[Posteritatis]

35. Absolutely! (nt)

[janx]

42. This is what especially bothers me!

What if a woman needs a D&C for a fetus that is inviable? What if it has "died"? Will that be considered an elective procedure?

Dammit, from what I've read, this whole thing started when the US Council of Catholic Bishops decided to get involved. Catholicism isn't my religion, and it isn't the religion of many US citizens. For one denomination to insert itself and make these demands is ridiculous.

[Hello_Kitty]

43. The language of the bill does not cover fetal deformities

Threats to the life and health of the mother and pregnancies resulting from rape or incest are covered, but you have to pay for own surgery to terminate a pregnancy of an anencephalic fetus. Since you'd be likely having a procedure like that done at a later stage in the pregnancy and it would require a more complicated procedure, I guess you'd be out several thousand dollars.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. "The Ends Justify the Means" - Writ large. k&r

[stray cat]

17. Donate money into a fund? Since it is your money in taxes anyway

[sabrina 1]

30. It's a Democratic Bill!

Why are you complaining? Now, if it was a Republican Bill we could all, like Dennis Kucinich, be against it. But once it has 'D' on it, it will be excused, explained, apologized for. And we'll hear the usual optimists tell us it's just a beginning, it can be fixed, like NAFTA.

The truth is many Democrats support this as the Party swings more and more to the right. If they didn't need Republicans to vote for the entire bill, why was it necessary to add this amendment?

We've been punked, again. But if it isn't taken out, Democrats are about to lose the women's vote as well as those who supported a Public Option, in the next election.

[AwakeAtLast]

41. Mississippi only has one clinic. ONE.

People who think it is easy to do are fooling themselves.

[PeaceNikki]

46. And every little thing they do to further chip away at ACCESS is harmful.

No matter how much others here deny that.