What IS an "elective abortion," anyway??

[Sparkly]

If the fetus is non-viable or dead, isn't that an "elective" abortion?

If the woman's health would be risked by carrying a fetus to term, isn't this an "elective" abortion?

Even in cases of rape and incest, aren't abortions "elective?"

What does this term "elective abortion" mean?

In other words, any time a woman exercises her right to choose and chooses abortion, isn't that an "elective abortion?" Where's the line between choice and no choice?

Isn't this just a term to bring to mind the image of woman in late term pregnancy filing her nails and saying, "Oh, I don't think I want this after all..."??

[joeybee12]

1. Anything that's not a spontaneous abortion is elective, even if the

fetus is dead inside and the procedure removes it.

[Barack_America]

2. A missed miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy...

...would be examples of non-elective abortion. If the pregnancy viable or not threatens the woman's life an abortion is seen as "non-elective".

[Shell Beau]

38. I have had two ectopics. Weird how I don't consider those

abortions, although I guess technically they are. I am not sure why I never considered those to be abortions either. Maybe because I hoped with all the hope that I could muster up that they would be viable. Either way, I couldn't imagine someone telling me that I couldn't save myself.

[Starry Messenger]

3. Evidently it's just like getting your nails done.

We're just vain and shallow. We use the money we were going to blow on a new designer purse on a little nip to the clinic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Translation: Naughty, immoral, sluts, have abortions. Good girls keep their legs crossed.

It's in the same nod and wink league with "welfare queens".

[Barack_America]

6. No, the different terms actually have medical relevance, IMO.

The emotional needs of a woman undergoing an elective abortion and a non-elective abortion are very different. The support she will need from her medical providers is very different. No matter what, abortion is an emotional event, if I were an abortion provider, I would want to know why the procedure was being done so I could support the patient appropriately.

[Sparkly]

24. I don't understand...

What are you calling "elective," what are you calling "non-elective," and in what ways do you think the needs are different??

[Warpy]

5. There are several categories.

One is spontaneous abortion, what we used to call a miscarriage in simpler times.

The other is therapeutic abortion, the medical termination of a pregnancy. One sub category is emergency abortion, usually a tubal pregnancy or any other condition in which a pregnancy immediately threatens the life of the mother. The other is elective abortion, any procedure which can be scheduled at the convenience of hospital, physician, or patient. That covers not only the first trimester abortion chosen by the patient, but all abortions done then or later for the most tragic and medically urgent reasons.

You can always count on the right wing to take specific medical terminology and twist it to suit their hateful purposes, but this is what it all really means.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. Anything that results in the election of Wilson, Bachmann,

Boehner, and that SOB from Michigan that hijacked the vote last night.

Those are election abortions.

[liberalmuse]

8. A woman deciding...

to terminate a pregnancy in those cases where she wasn't raped, molested by a parent or if having the baby won't kill her. The religio-political establishment basically owns our uteruses.

On edit: And yes, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. 'Elective Abortion' is an oxymoron.

[ejpoeta]

9. in the same way a heart transplant is elective.

[valerief]

10. I think we should just outlaw miscarriages. If a prenancy is miscarried for any reason, PRISON TIME

for both the woman and sperm donor!

:sarcasm:
for the sarcasm-impaired

[Barack_America]

12. God is the number one aborter.

Almost 50% or more of pregnancies end in "spontaneous" (read: God-driven) abortion.

Perhaps we should outlaw God, or at the very least protest him?

[Shell Beau]

39. And unfortunately, I have also had two spontaneous abortions.

It doesn't list miscarriage on the chart. It lists spontaneous abortion.

[Nikia]

11. Well, the ER was strongly encouraging me to have D&C

Telling me that the ob surgeon, who had been at home in another town, was on his way to the hospital to do the procedure and that these were the papers that I had to sign. Yes, they could have given me transfusions and continued to monitor my condition. In my case, as with other women whose life was in danger, the procedure isn't any more elective than emergency treatment for a near fatal heart attack.

[Honeycombe8]

13. I would say when a woman wants one because she doesn't want a baby. That's how

I would define it. Without there being any medical necessity for it.

The case of rape or incest...I think that's an unusual situation where an argument could be made that it is psychologically necessary, because of the criminal element and violence associated with it (as opposed to psychologically necessary because I'd be upset just to have an unwanted baby, which I don't think a good argument can be made for).

[99 Percent Sure]

14. "Elective" means choosing to abort a healthy fetus;

in other words, using abortion as a form of birth control.

Example: On one of the TV judges' episodes last week, the plaintiff had gotten pregnant during a 'casual sex' affair with the defendant artist guy she met on the web and for whom she was supposed to pose nude. They began an affair, although she was living with another man who had gotten a vasectomy but with whom she was committed. She got pregnant by the artist, they agreed she'd get an abortion, and he gave her money for the procedure.

That is considered an "elective pregnancy termination."

I've known a handful of women who have elected to terminate pregnancies because it was inconvenient to be pregnant; the timing was not good for them and/or they had no intention of getting pregnant. It occurs more often than some people realize, even in the 21st century.

[PeaceNikki]

15. Wow.

I say "wow" because what I really want to type will only be deleted and might get me banned.

[tosh]

16. +1.

[99 Percent Sure]

17. Whatever. I'm only answering the diarist's question.

not passing judgment on anyone; it isn't my place. I must also clarify a few things.

First, although I don't believe in elective termination as birth control, a woman ought to have the right to choose. IMO.

Second, 40 years ago, I lost my best friend when she was 15 and had an illegal abortion performed in a shot house in a bad part of town by a non-medically trained person. As a result, I was glad and continue to advocate keeping the procedure legal.

Third, that handful of women I spoke of was the number of adult women I've known over my 55 year lifespan who elected to terminate their pregnancies.

Still, as President Obama has said, no one is pro-abortion. Rather, we are pro-choice.

As to your 'wow' and banning fear, again I say, "Whatever."

[Sparkly]

21. Fair enough, BUT...

I think the term "elective" applies beyond this category you're describing. I cited some examples of other "elective" abortion procedures.

When the word "elective" is bandied about as if all *choice* to abort were about "birth control," it draws down even further the circumstances under which a woman may exercise her right to choose -- hence the notion that "rape, incest, life of the 'mother'" are non-elective, and everything else is "elective" (= unwarranted, basically).

That's my point.

[Igel]

18. Play fair.

There's google, in which you can easily answer your own question. Or you can ponder it and not set up false dichotomies.

Ignore etymologies. They'll lead you into fallacy. "Elective abortion" is a bit of jargon, and for the definition you have to turn to the speech community that originated it for the definition. Otherwise you wind up shifting definitions mid-stream, and that's another fallacy.

In an elective abortion the only reason to have it is personal choice. You're healthy, the fetus is healthy, but, hey, it's not something you're into right now. Key word: "only". Personal choice is necessary *AND* sufficient (barring things like funding and a doctor who's willing--doctor's also have volition, however much some think they don't deserve it).

An abortion that isn't elective is prescribed and is "therapeutic"; the reasons for it vary. Personal choice is a necessary but not a sufficient condition. You can choose to not have a prescribed, therapeutic abortion; I can stop taking my levothyroxine, even if it's prescribed, whenever I want to. But if my l-thyroxine intake was purely elective I'd run into problems--it's a controlled substance. Similarly, most women don't just get to decide that their abortion is therapeutic and therefore write out their own medical orders to a hospital or clinic.

Making it fuzzy is that there are undoubtedly some doctors who believe that denying a woman an elective abortion would constitute distress, and to avoid such distress nearly any abortion would automatically be therapeutic. Still, in the abstract it's fairly clear.

Assuming you can get past the fallacies.

[Sparkly]

19. I think it's a perfectly fair question.

Women can "elect" to abort in cases of rape, for example. So that is "elective," is it not?

If there is a RISK to a woman's health from carrying a fetus to term, does she not "elect" to do what she decides?

I think the fallacy is the false dichotomy between "elective" and "therapeutic." It's made even more murky when policies prohibit abortion for reasons pertaining to a woman's health that don't necessarily endanger her life. That would fall under your category of "therapeutic," but is considered "elective" when it's excluded.

[Cleita]

20. Shouldn't a woman have the right over her body to decide not to carry an

embryo to full term? I don't think this is even an issue.

[Sparkly]

22. It shouldn't be an issue, but it is.

We're building a bridge to the 1930s.

[The Magistrate]

23. An Abortion Someone Else Does Not want You To have, Ma'am

As if it was any of their damn business....

[varelse]

26. you nailed it

:/

[Sparkly]

27. Yes... Which raises another question.

If people oppose choice because they honestly believe abortion is murder, why do they believe it's okay in cases of rape or incest?

In my view, this points to an ideology that's not so much about "innocent life," but is very much about the "innocence" (or guilt) of women.

[The Magistrate]

29. Many Of Those, ma'am, Do Not Support Any Exceptions

And those who do 'accept' them regard them as damnable but unavoidable compromises, forced on them by the pusillanimity and cowardice and moral degeneracy of politicians and society....

Their real purpose, as you say, is control and punishment of women.

[Sparkly]

32. Interesting that those are the compromises, though...

A fetus without a brain? Too bad.

Risk to your health? Tough shit.

You didn't "spread your legs?" Okay, we'll allow YOU choice.

It's very much about the woman, not the supposed "sanctity of life."

[Odin2005]

25. Anything that prevents women from being "punished" for having sex and getting pregnant.

It's disgusting language.

[Sparkly]

30. I agree. Maybe I should have asked, "What is NOT an elective abortion?"

Anything that a woman has no choice about is, in fact, an "elective abortion."

"Elective" = CHOICE.

[uppityperson]

28. K&R for good questions to ask. WOndering why the unrecs

[Sparkly]

31. Thanks. Me, too. nt

[Canuckistanian]

33. You've got a point

A woman CAN "elect" to die.

And I'm not sure that forced pregnancy conservatives would disagree with that choice.

In their minds, if the pregnant woman dies (taking the fetus with her), it's STILL better than an abortion.

[ohheckyeah]

34. I know someone whose doctor

told them they could die if they continued with the pregnancy. The abortion was still listed as elective.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. All surgery is "elective" or "emergency."

If the patient can wait a few days, it's an elective surgery, even if not having the surgery would cause death.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Like any other surgical procedure, it's elective if

it's not emergency surgery performed to save the patient's life. Most surgeries are considered elective but that doesn't mean the patient just thought "Gee, I'd like to have my gallbladder out." Or "have this benign brain tumour removed," etc.

It's not abortion at all if the embryo or fetus is already dead, it's just removal of the body, if it isn't delivered/miscarried without intervention.

It's not abortion at all if the pregnancy is ectopic because the embryo can't survive. Continuing the pregnancy can also kill the mother.

(Rarely, an embryo implants in the abdominal cavity and the baby develops normally, is delivered surgically. Those are ectopic pregnancies but very untypical, usually written up in the newspaper. If the mother asked to have the baby delivered before it was viable, it would be an elective abortion; it wouldn't be an elective abortion if doctors said the baby had to come out early and the baby then died.)

[Stinky The Clown]

37. Elective abortion is an abortion an elected offical wants to deny you.

Elected officials sent you a message last night.

[undeterred]

40. In a medical sense there are two kinds of procedures: elective and emergency

The only procedures that are emergency are those that are done urgently to save the mothers life. Everything else is elective.

[Sparkly]

41. Exactly.

Thank you.