Women who stole from girl, 9, hold public signs of shame

[RamboLiberal]

BEDFORD, Pa. -- A woman and her daughter are outside the Bedford County Courthouse holding signs saying they stole a gift card from a 9-year-old girl on her birthday.

Bedford County District Attorney Bill Higgins says in exchange for 56-year-old Evelyn Border and 35-year-old Tina Griekspoor, both of Bedford, agreeing to hold the signs, he'll ask for probation instead of jail when they plead guilty.

The signs read: "I stole from a 9-year-old girl on her birthday! Don't steal or this could happen to you!" The mother and daughter were to be outside the court for 4 1/2 hours, until 1:30 p.m.

Mr. Higgins says they swiped a gift card which the girl set on a shelf while a Wal-Mart employee helped her.

The girl's mother planned to drive by the courthouse to teach her daughter the importance of obeying the law.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09307/1010459-100.stm#ixzz0VqBY73LN





Just punishment IMHO.

[SoCalDem]

1. Time to bring back an old tradition?

[alittlelark]

15. I just posted about your pic ( #14).

[Divine Discontent]

2. how sad. it is just punishment. I think it'll encourage them in the future. how embarrassing.

[Berry Cool]

3. They're not being physically tortured. Just publicly humiliated.

Public humiliation for such wrongdoing causes no physical harm, but maybe it does something to the conscience to make it think twice about a repeat. We can only hope.

[Posteritatis]

4. The embarrassment is sort of the intent, and is deserved. (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

5. wasn't there once upon a time an eighth amendment to our constitution...?

fuck the rules- as a society, we want our vengeance to be entertaining.

[kestrel91316]

8. There is nothing cruel or unusual in trying to shame someone into

becoming a better person in the future. Now, if they were in stocks and people were encouraged to pelt them with rotten tomatoes and eggs, that might not pass muster these days.

[dysfunctional press]

11. as long as the punishment is the same for everyone convicted of the same offense...

then yes, there wouldn't be anything unusual about it.

however- that's not the case.

[FBaggins]

24. They AGREED to the punishment

They obviously felt it was preferable to jail time.

How can something be at all "cruel" if the criminal prefers it to the "usual" punishment?

[dysfunctional press]

26. who said anything about it being cruel?

:shrug:

[FBaggins]

27. You mentioned the 8th Amendment.

It doesn't say "cruel OR unusual" punishment.

More importantly... offers made prior to conviction are not "punishment" and weren't awarded by a court. This was entirely voluntary.

It seems like an appropriate and creative response to their actions.

[Posteritatis]

9. What, precisely, is cruel about this? (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

13. unless it's the usual punishment for people convicted of the offense...

it would by definition be "un-usual".

but hey- people's lust for entertaining vengeance is obviously more important. the founders just screwed the pooch on number 8. it happens...:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

20. By that logic changing any sentence that was on the books in the 1770s is unconstitutional. (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

23. really? how so...? i don't see how that would be a logical conclusion at all.

most crimes have defined, allowable sentencing and/or guidelines- and some obviously give some judges too much latitude- or at least the judges seem to think so.
it doesn't matter if those definitions change/evolve over time- as long as punishments are uniform under whatever definitions are in place at the time.

[Orangepeel]

16. Is it more cruel than jail?

Going to jail ruins a persons life. This is humiliating but temporary, and probably more effective as a deterrent for the perpetrator and others. They could have chosen jail instead. They didn't because this is better.

[dysfunctional press]

25. it definitely can be, depending on how the person handles humiliation.

and btw- "going to jail" isn't what "ruins a person's life"- it's the conviction that got them there that follows them around- not the punishment that was meted out.

besides- something doesn't have to be cruel to be unusual, anyway.

[Odin2005]

31. Shame and humilliation is a powerful behavior modifier.

That's the point.

[Shell Beau]

34. Yeah but the experience of jail can ruin a person.

This or going to jail? I would probably side with this if it were me who chose to steal.

[Odin2005]

30. How is this any more cruel than jail time?

[CrispyQ]

6. I think it's a great punishment.

The only thing I would add to the sign is their name at the bottom.

Shame on them!

[BrklynLiberal]

7. I think public humililation is the best punishment. That is definitely what

politicians should be punished with...
Sandwich boards..walking back and forth in their home districts

[DainBramaged]

10. Those pictures are BEGGING to be photo shopped........

not trying to put ideas in anyone's head........

[Canuckistanian]

12. I don't know how I feel about this

Public shaming is a good deterrent, but I worry about how it could be used.

The Japanese and Germans in WWII used to use these sorts of punishments to keep their own citizens in line.

If this is to be a common form of punishment, the guilt must be PROVEN in a court of law and it must never be used for "warnings" or some sort of plea bargaining.

Social ostracism can be just as devastating as prison time.

[SoCalDem]

17. agree.. the woman and her daughter were caught and obviously prosecuted

If I had been the judge, I would have made them apologize in person, and pay DOUBLE the amount they took, and then sentence them to public service.

Our justice system is deliberately OPEN, but attendance by ALL the public is not mandatory. People who are interested can attend, but to display the "convicted" in public for even non-interested parties is a bit much..

I guess it has its "entertainment value" for the Joe Arpaio types and for teens and for cluck-clucking shame-on-you types, but I'm not sure it does more than to encourage thieves to be more careful next time...and to be even more bitter & angry.

Publishing their names in the paper, fining them, making them apologize & doing community service might have been a more productive punishment

[Withywindle]

40. Definitely it should only be used for the legitimately convicted of a legitimate crime

I share your concerns about the slippery slope.

But if you look at some existing punishments...often "community service" means that, for example, someone who hurt or killed someone in a drunk-driving accident has to go around to school groups and lecture about what they did and why drunk driving is so terrible. I don't have a problem with that. I think it's fitting. I kind of look at this as in that same category. Standing up in public and saying, "I made a mistake and did something terrible. It's not OK. Don't do it."

If you're not a total sociopath, you have to know on some level that stealing a little kid's birthday present is a shitty thing to do. Maybe in the heat of the moment you found a way to rationalize it. Maybe by testifying about it in public, that rationalization is stripped away from you and you're confronted with a fundamental ugliness in your character. It might be harsh, but it should be. Seems like the punishment fits the crime in this case.

[alittlelark]

14. The Stockades were once used for this type of shame.

I won't say whether this is better, but there is a slippery slope.

The Stockades were often used for prostitutes and their (non-politically connected) johns.

[endeavourniche]

18. Here in Florida

They publish your picture in the local newspaper with your name and a caption such as; My name is so and so. I got caught stealing from Walmart. They do it to everyone convicted of theft. When they are first arrested their name and address is published with the offense(s).

[alittlelark]

19. In the Albuquerque Journal they publish DUI's every month.

I have no problem w/that.... Some of them are up to their 15th or 20th DUI.

They drive w/o licences..... that kind of public humiliation I'm OK with.



If a thief at Walmart got caught w/ make-up, electronics, clothes, or other fru-fru - so be it.


But if they were busted stealing food, detergent, baby supplies...... they need Gov't help - not public shame.


*Updated for poor OP spelling:P

[Raine]

21. Good

Shame, shame, shame on them! :spank:

Edit: took out extra word.

[Octafish]

22. Public Humiliation might do the trick for non-violent offenders.

There's no alternative to incarceration for violent ones, especially the warmonger.

Traitors are in another class, altogether.

[paulsby]

28. this is common in hawaii where i used to work

as a police officer. it was always (just as in this case) given as an OPTION. iow, the person can choose the traditional punishment or the shaming one.

DUI's for instance would usually have to serve 4 8 hr sessions of standing on the side of the road and holding a sign as traffic drove by.

i'm not sure if any studies have been done as to the effectivness of this as a GENERAL deterrent (population at large), let alone as a specific deterrent (deterrent to the individual offender who undergoes such punishment).

but i certainly think this is a just form of punishment. iow, it is not cruel and unusual.

[JoeyT]

32. DUI Offenders?

Did anyone check to see if they were drunk while they were holding the signs up? ;)

[Odin2005]

29. That is brilliant.

It would be especially effective to shallow people whose self-worth is entirely based on other's opinions. Shame and humiliation is extremely effective for such people.

[Skittles]

33. I do not believe in this kind of humiliation

it is uncivilized

[Codeine]

35. Stealing from a child is uncivilized.

Invoking well-earned and thoroughly-deserved public shame is just simple justice.

[Skittles]

37. humiliation does not change behavior

it is disgusting

[Codeine]

38. How do you know it doesn't? nt

[Skittles]

41. try it on your kids

[FBaggins]

43. Of course it does.

Or rather... the LACK of significant consequences for anti-social behavior changes the liklihood that the person will do it again.

Of course you're against the sexual offender databases too, right?

[Odin2005]

45. of course it changes behavior. That's why humans are wired to feel shame.

Read up on some anthropology stuff. Non-violent shame and humiliation is a very common way to fix bad behavior.

[Shell Beau]

36. Any more civilized than stealing (which they chose to do)?

And more uncivilized than being in jail?

I see this as a slippery slope, but it could have been worse for them. And rightly so.

[Statistical]

39. Yup locking up first time non violent offenders in an overcrowded prison system

at taxpayer expense is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more civilized.

Judge likely got a reduced recidivism rate, they criminals avoided the "fun" of prison, and the state saved $50K each in incarceration costs.

Of course you did read the article right?
They agreed to the punishment in lieu of jail so likely they didn't share your view.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gatorboy]

44. I wish the first picture was larger.

That facial expression looks priceless! Wish I could see it better. :rofl: