Whoopee! The Catholic Church is campaigning against health care reform

[Jackpine Radical]

--because abortions would be covered, of course.

Mighty shortsighted of them, I'd say, since I presume publicly financed health care would save them a lot, just on mental health treatment for pedophilia alone.

[JuniperLea]

1. How very Christian of them...

:eyes:

[SpiralHawk]

2. The Political Beast

Rears its Unholy Reactionary Head to interfere in America...Wonder what the Republicon Homelanders' beloved Object-of-Worship -- Rev. 'Second-Coming-of-Christ' Moon -- has to say about all this...Do you suppose he and Pope Ratzinger have consorted and consulted on these tHORNY matters?

[KamaAina]

3. It Might Be A DUzy

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Cleita]

4. Not to mention it would be a nice influx of cash into the Catholic hospital

system.

[avaistheone1]

5. Pathetic. The Catholic Church also campaigns against condoms in even in poor countries.

Shame, shame, shame on the Catholic Church.

[dschis]

6. Has the poterntial to cap payments to various hospitals in US

[Rage for Order]

7. Good

To borrow a turn of phrase: It really is quite simple - if you want an abortion, pay for it yourself.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. They're campaigning to take down the whole bill over this point.

[Kerrytravelers]

11. We don't have a tax system that allows me to check the boxes of what I want my money to pay for.

Abortion is legal. I don't believe in a lot of things my tax money may go to pay for, but if it legal, as abortions are, then that is just how it goes. Until I get that checklist at my next H&R Block tax appointment and I can decide what I want to pay for and what I don't, then I don't see how others can go around demanding such a right.

[Rage for Order]

13. Well....

If an abortion is necessary to protect the physical health of the mother (not the bogus "emotional health" claim) then it is a medically necessary procedure. Otherwise it's elective surgery, much like a boob job or nose job. Plastic surgery is legal too; do you think elective plastic surgery procedures should be covered?

[PeaceNikki]

16. wow. This place is insane sometimes.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. I know. Can you even believe it?

Of course, all of the above is easily said when the speaker is male...

[Kerrytravelers]

17. Bogus emotional health?

Bogus? How would you know if someone's emotional status/health is bogus or not?

In regards to plastic surgery, I have no solidly formed opinions because there are all kinds of reasons that someone may have a plastic surgery procedure done. I'm not in a position to judge. For example, a person may have been in an abusive relationship and has had their nose broken and reset several times, yet that nose is still a mess. They are away from their abuser, trying to restart their lives, and every time they look in the mirror, they see that reset nose looking at them, reminding them of their painful past. Technically, having a plastic surgeon take the time to recraft their nose may be labeled "elective," but it makes all the difference in their lives. Who am I to claim their reasoning bogus or the surgery unnecessary? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a psychologist. I'm just someone who respects collective "we" as much as the individual "I."

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Or reconstructive surgery after cancer...

plastic surgery, again. I guess it's just frivolous, though.

[Kerrytravelers]

23. My father had skin cancer on his face. He had reconstructive surgery after his recovery.

He had the area of his face which was affected rebuilt. You'd never even know he had cancer if you weren't told. He looks great, and it was wonderful for his emotional recovery. Can you imagine having skin cancer on your face?

He had a full recovery from that cancer, then had a damaged eye (birth defect that we never knew about until everything went blurry,) and, more recently, a tumor in his intestines. He has hung in there, and partly because he had that self confidence that the plastic surgery gave him. His mind was in the right place and he recovered quickly and without many complications.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Yup

there's a whole lot about plastic surgery that isn't about starlets and boob jobs...

[Jackpine Radical]

26. Thank you for sharing that.

I'm really glad things worked out so well for him. Too many people have fallen victim to the conscienceless insurance industry in America.

[Lucy Goosey]

32. Why do you think emotional health claims are bogus?

And why did you put "emotional health" in quotes, as if it is something that is not real?

(I'm not trying to be facetious; I would genuinely like to know what you have to say on this issue, because my position is so different from yours.)

[Rage for Order]

40. I don't think emotional health in and of itself is bogus

I just don't think it's a valid reason to abort a viable fetus in the 2nd or 3rd trimester. Claiming potential damage to ones' emotional health is cover for "A baby will cramp my style, give me stretch marks, and keep me from partying with the girls. Having to change my lifestyle would make me sad, thereby damaging my emotional health."

[Kerrytravelers]

42. Please cite reliable sources for your claims of women's reasons for abortions.

I'm curious as to what sources you are using. The only place I've heard such claims is not what most would consider a "reliable source." I am also curious why you would regard women as so petty to have a late-term abortion because stretch marks would "cramp their style." But, for the sake of discussion, let's say that women are that petty. Do you think reputable doctors are also that petty? I'm willing to accept that people make personal choices based on parameters that I will never experience. Therefore, I can't make a general statement based on my lack of knowledge and experience in an area. Because of that, I trust the medical profession and the people personally involved to make the choices that are right for them, their situation, their health and their families. I wouldn't want someone dictating a medical decision I had to make without knowing all the facts and without the medical knowledge to counsel me.

To turn a phrase: If you can't trust women with a choice, how can you trust them with a child?




Edited for formatting errors.

[PeaceNikki]

44. insert thumbsup here

:thumbsup:

[TommyO]

37. mental health issues are not bogus

[Jackpine Radical]

27. So you would rather pay the lifetime of costs generated by an unwanted child

born to parents too dysfunctional to cope with its needs and too emotionally fragile to give it up. I have worked with people on the bottom fringes of society--criminals, drug addicts, abandoned chronically mentally ill and retarded people, and have seen the lives they and their children often lead. Believe me, abortion is sometimes a much better outcome than the alternatives I have seen play out.

[Lucy Goosey]

31. When I can stop my tax dollars from ending up in the hands of defense contractors...

...then I'd be OK with no funding to insurance companies that might cover abortions in some situations.

We can't pick and choose like that - that's not the way the system works.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. Beyond the matter of personal choice, and of women's rights to control their own bodies,

I see another issue, one that will ultimately impact species survival. Some species, such as rabbits, have natural birth-control systems; a pregnant rabbit will resorb her embryos when in overcrowded conditions. Humans obviously don't do that. Overpopulation is one of the major driving forces threatening the global environment. No modern society has successfully regulated its population unless its women had access to contraception and abortion. Barring some new technological or social advances, I fully believe that we need readily available and cheap contraception and abortion as survival tools.

[AwakeAtLast]

36. So a rape victim gets to add the joy of paying for her own abortion

How thoughtful of you!

[fascisthunter]

38. no... it's evil

[OHdem10]

8. If we are fair, they are pushing for no payment for Abortions

Of course the RW wants to appear to have the Church on their side,
they do not mention there are Bishops who support HCR but the Abortion
problem gets the emphasis.

[Raineyb]

41. What's their argument? That they don't want their tax dollars paying for abortions?

Oh wait a minute! That's right they don't pay any taxes. Time for the Church to STFU.

[Hawkeye-X]

10. Watch their membership dwindle next to nothing.

So what are going to do, Pope Ratzo? Sell your crap on eBay to fund your crap?

Hawkeye-X

[harry_pothead]

12. We all know why the catholic preists want more births (hence more kids)

[PeaceNikki]

14. Democrats for Life of America is running a massive PR campaign

claiming 43 Democrats will vote against the bill is they don't specifically add language forbidding taxpayer dollars from funding abortions.

[UrbScotty]

15. Bullcrap. Where's your source?

http://www.catholics-united.org/

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Here's your "bullcrap."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/30/priests-urged-to-speak-out-against-health-care/

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Calling Democratic health care bills "seriously deficient on the issues of abortion and conscience," the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is urging priests around the country to speak out against the legislation from the pulpit this Sunday.

The conference - the leadership body of the Catholic Church in the United States - is distributing a flier to churches to insert in their weekly newsletters urging parishioners to contact their senators and representatives to ask them "to fix these bills with the pro-life amendments."

"The bills will have to change or the bishops have pledged to oppose them," the flier reads. "Our nation is at a crossroads."

Bishops are also planning to take out advertisements in diocesan newspapers with a similar message. "Americans would be forced to subsidize abortions through their taxes and health insurance premiums," the ad claims.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. ..but it is ok for taxpayer money to subsidize religious indoctrination.

And what about all the services that religious groups take advantage of that are funded by tax payer money?
Religions should not be tax free. Since they are doing political propaganda..let them pay taxes, like the rest of us.
They use the streets, the water, the clean air, the fire departments, the police, the roads....let them all pay their fair share for them.

[geek_sabre]

18. if nothing else, they're consistent

to be fair, they do support healthcare reform. if the abortion funding was dropped, they'd be back on board no question.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. Not all of them.

'Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas and Bishop Robert W. Finn of Kansas City-St. Joseph in Missouri recently warned about a “government socialization of medical services” in a joint pastoral statement. A health care system that “expands the reach of government beyond its competence, would do more harm than good,” they write. Bishop R. Walker Nickless of Sioux City, Iowa wrote in a pastoral statement that the “Catholic Church does not teach that government should directly provide health care” and warned that “any legislation that undermines the vitality of the private sector is suspect.”'

[mascarax]

19. Big surprise. Not. (n/t)

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Wow, that really crystallizes the hierarchies' disconnect

from the gospel, doesn't it?

Forget those poor and sick - keep those women in their place!

[Lucy Goosey]

28. Someone should point out to the Catholic Church that Canada has a lower abortion rate...

Abortions are easier to access in Canada, which of course has universal healthcare, and yet there are fewer abortions per capita. The Church should be pushing for single payer!

[MadMaddie]

29. Wouldn't expect anything less from them!!

Considering that the allowed the pedophillia to go on for decades and protected the criminals...this is right in their ballpark.

[BrklynLiberal]

34. But of course.....exactly what I would have expected of them.

[AngryOldDem]

39. Makes about as much sense as them pulling out of the adoption business...

...because gay couples might want to adopt a kid who otherwise could have been aborted.

[HughMoran]

43. Jesus would burn the Catholic Church to the ground

These sacrilegious cretins hate Jesus. Why did they start a church based on the life of someone they hate. :mad: