Please Don't Use the Word "Preference" When Discussing Sexual Orientation

[Toasterlad]

The two are not synonymous. Preference implies choice, and is extremely offensive to many GLBT people. It is the preferred (no pun intended) word of the religious right and other bigots, and is commonly used dismissively to undermine the arguments for equality.

It is not a word that should be used in a discussion of GLBT issues on a progressive (or even democratic) website.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Flying Dream Blues]

1. Yes, and thanks for reminding us. Sometimes phrases get

imbedded without one stopping to think about the true meaning. This word implies choice and has no place in the journey toward equality.

Recommending...
:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Did you forget what the B in GLBT stands for?

[NashVegas]

6. Some Would Like To

[Behind the Aegis]

10. It stands for "bisexual"; a sexual ORIENTATION.

[JBoris]

11. Being bisexual isn't a choice either.

[Toasterlad]

19. Bisexuality Is Not a Preference.

You are born bisexual. You may be attracted to both men and women to a greater or lesser extent, but you can't change your orientation. You will always be bisexual. It is not accurate for a bisexual to say "I prefer men (or women) more", although some do. It is more accurate to say "I am attracted or oriented more toward men".

In any case, that is not the context in which the word is being misused.

[spoony]

22. Do you think bisexuals flip a switch or something?

"I'd like to be attracted to women today so, bink, there we go..."

[TrogL]

45. I wish it was that easy

So I'm convinced I'm having a "straight day" and then the UPS guy gets off the elevator and....

Why do they insist upon putting them in those cute uniforms?

[Love Bug]

55. Brown shorts? You think camp shirts with dorky brown shorts are cute?

Well, there goes THAT stereotype... :evilgrin:

[Toasterlad]

57. I Dig a Hot UPS Guy In Shorts As Well.

:blush:

[Love Bug]

60. I suppose if a guy is REALLY hot, even a UPS uniform can't diminish his hottness...

[donco6]

65. ahem - me too.

:evilgrin:

[donco6]

32. Bloppositional?

Just a guess.

[aSpeckofDust]

3. I'm..

.. a little confused.. I am all for gay rights for everything, they are people, they are human. They should be treated like ones.. but my confusion is from the OP saying sexual orientation isn't a choice? Since when?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aSpeckofDust]

8. Actually, I'm honestly curious about the answer as I really.. n/t

haven't had people around me to discuss these issues. But if it's easier for you to just label me as a troll, go ahead.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. Well, if you are curious, so am I....

...when did you chose to be heterosexual, assuming you are one?

[aSpeckofDust]

15. I like people, be they man or woman. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

20. That is not an answer to the question, unless you are indicating you are bisexual.

[aSpeckofDust]

31. I guess so. N/T

[Behind the Aegis]

33. So you are claiming you are bisexual?

You are sexually attracted to both sexes? If this is true, then when did you "choose" to be attracted to both sexes?

[aSpeckofDust]

38. Well..

I see your point. Thank you for having a civil discussion with me. :D

[TrogL]

13. You need to read up a bit

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/orient.html

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JANdad]

25. How old were you when you chose your

sexual orientation?

[TrogL]

7. Pretty much since always

People are born with their sexual orientation already set somewhere on a continuum from gay to straight.

Where have you heard otherwise? Church?

[aSpeckofDust]

14. No, I dislike almost all forms of religion. N/t

[donco6]

27. I'm sure you prefer a personal relationship with Jesus instead.

Right?

[aSpeckofDust]

29. No? N/t

[immoderate]

9. Always.

Can you describe the moment you made your decision? Or maybe you haven't done it yet. :shrug:

--imm

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spoony]

18. "They should be treated like ones"

Your compassion is overwhelming, nearly matching your understanding of the gay people humans.

[aSpeckofDust]

23. That was a typo, should have just been one :D N/t

[donco6]

26. LOL! No kidding.

Gosh, maybe it's even OK if we wear clothes and eat with utensils, too!

[aSpeckofDust]

28. You are overreacting. I support human rights for everyone. N/T

[donco6]

35. You don't get to decide when I'm overreacting.

And honey, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

[LanternWaste]

30. Since about the time...

"Since when...?"

Since about the time that being left handed stopped being a choice.

[aSpeckofDust]

34. Like I said, I usually don't get to converse about this subject where I live.

Maybe I didn't write out my message right, sorry for the offense.

[LanternWaste]

40. I took no offense. Merely answered a question.

I took no offense. Merely answered a question.

[TrogL]

44. You stepped on a land-mine

This site is routinely invaded by authoritarians looking to cause havoc. We tend to get a bit jumpy and pre-judge.

[tbyg52]

62. Forgive me if this has already been mentioned upthread

(a lot of discussion from your first post in this thread....! ;-> ), but all you have to do is *think* whether *your* sexual orientation is a "choice." I figure that should lay the issue to rest, in a rational world.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Kitty Herder]

63. I understand that.

I live in an area where the topic is not discussed, except to condemn it. When I was young, I was terribly ignorant regarding sexual orientation. Fortunately, it's easy to cure such ignorance. Just talk to people of different orientations. Make some new friends.

[Toasterlad]

43. As You Can See, This Is a Sensitive Issue For Many People.

If you are sincerely interested in learning more, I'd suggest you PM me, and I will do my best to answer your questions.

It is not going to be in your best interest to discuss this with people who are upset with what you wrote.

[aSpeckofDust]

46. Says I don't have enough posts to pm you :/ n/t

[Toasterlad]

49. Sorry! We Can Talk Privately When You Get Your Post Count Up.

In the meantime, just tread with care when discussing GLBT issues, and please try not to get defensive when someone snaps back angrily at something you wrote that you believed was an honest question, not intended to offend. Your best bet in this situation is to apologize for offending someone, and politely ask why what you posted was offensive. Once people see that you are sincerely requesting information, they will generally treat you much nicer.

Even here on DU, we get more than our share of assholes pretending to be clueless who post deliberately hurtful things. Therefore, we tend to jump with both feet on someone who post things like "since when isn't sexual orientation a choice?" I believe that you are merely uninformed on this issue, and sincerely don't mean to offend.

[Toasterlad]

50. P.S. Welcome To DU!

[aSpeckofDust]

52. Yeah, nothing in my schooling even scratched..

this issue. All I was taught was Fcat, fcat, romeo & juliet, fcat, romeo & juliet, romeo & juliet, and more fcat.. I hate the florida public school boardmembers.

I'll be sure next time to state my misunderstanding more clearly and as I see it now, less confrontational.

[Toasterlad]

53. It Will Be a LONG Time Before Anyone Learns About Sexual Orientation In Schools.

You typically learn it from meeting and interacting with gay people, or people who know gay people. Given your posts, I assume that you live in a part of Florida where most gay people would not be comfortable being out of the closet. Hopefully, that will change in the future.

What is "Fcat"?

[aSpeckofDust]

54. A bane on education..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Comprehensive_Assessment_Test

[Toasterlad]

56. Ah, I See.

So they only concentrate on what's going to be on that test, and how you can pass it. I can see how that would leave a lot of material uncovered...

[BR_Parkway]

64. Welcome to DU - Am I correct that English isn't your native language?

I think what some were taking offense to may have been some coarse translations

[mix]

4. thanks for the reminder

I think it is very important to get such things right...this is about respect.

[lunatica]

16. I'm glad to not use words that offend but what word do we use?

Is it sexual orientation?

[Toasterlad]

21. That Is Correct, Yes. Thank You For Your Consideration.

[Whisp]

36. excellent point!

it can be applied to bisexual people and we never hear that word applied to heterosexuals, do we?

language, how it is abused to twist meanings.

thankyou for pointing something obvious out.

--
on edit I retract sayiing that that word can be applied to bisexuals. I was wrong.

[unpossibles]

37. great point. nt

[Libertas1776]

39. I am so glad

somebody brought this up. Nothing irks me more than hearing someone say the word "preference," instead of orientation. I do not prefer to be gay, that's the way was born, evolved, whatever. I have no problem with what and who I am and I wouldn't change it for the world, but Who would electively choose or prefer or what have you to be a second class member of society? Nobody, that's who. You don't prefer, it just happens.

[ismnotwasm]

41. Word up

Toasterlad. "Preference" is what my husband and I choose in privacy.

[TrogL]

42. Sexual orientation 101

Current thinking on sexual orientation is a lot more complicated than just "orientation" - it's on several axes.

How do you self-identify?

How do you portray yourself (sort of a gaydar thing)?

Who are you actually sleeping with?

So you could self-identify as "bi", appear "straight" but you've always slept with men (OK, except for that weekend at University)

Here's a reference of some current theories:

http://www.endhomophobia.org/BeyondGay.htm

[Toasterlad]

47. I Find That's Too Much To Expect Of Most People

Sexual identity, as you pointed out, can be a complicated matter. At some point, you have to ask yourself, is this person being deliberately offensive, or do they just plain not know?

"Preference" bothers me so much because it implies choice, and because the religious right have adopted it as their word-bludgeon. Hearing it is like chewing on tin foil. But I would not be upset with someone unfamiliar with the concept of "self-identification" (a concept that even many gay people have some problems with) or other, more subtle, aspects of sexual identity, and who expressed themselves clumsily or erroneously while discussing same....unless I believed they were being deliberately offensive.

[Divine Discontent]

48. it's lost on so many that you're either gay, straight, or bi when it comes to whom you're attracted

and that it's no choice, preference, decision...

I CHOOSE to be a Christian, I CHOOSE to drink Yoohoo, I CHOOSE to sleep in extra hours. I don't CHOOSE to be excited by spending time with someone I'm attracted to.

I also h8 seeing people post title threads that say "homosexuals", I know that it's considered nit-picking by some, but we don't really reference heterosexuals, we say straight/gay as a society most of the time, and since the Fundies® love to say, "HO-MO-SEX-SHULS" on TV & services, I'd prefer it not be used except in scientific circles, because the person using it usually has a dislike of gay people.

Thanks for your post!

[petronius]

61. I never really thought about 'homosexuals' - do you prefer 'gays' as the plural,

along with 'straights', or do you prefer (:)) 'gay people'/'straight people'? If 'gays' is the word, is that men only, or men and women? Or is 'gay' never a noun at all?

[Toasterlad]

66. You Ask a Lot of Questions.

:)

I'm fine with the word homosexual as synonymous with gay, but as the poster you responded to pointed out, many are not. Use at your own risk.

"Gay" encompasses both men and women, but if you are referring specifically to gay women, you'd be better off using "lesbian". If you're referring to all gay people, it's fine to use "gay". "Gay" as a noun - as in, "Did you see that gay walking down the street?" - sets my teeth on edge, but would probably not bother too many people. However, ask yourself if you would say, "Did you see that black guy walking down the street?" or simply "Did you see that guy walking down the street?" Black people generally don't appreciate being identified solely by their race, and gay people don't generally appreciate being solely identified by their orientation. If you have to ask if you have to specify if someone's gay in order to make your point, you probably don't.

[guitar man]

51. K&R

I am naturally attracted to women, that's not a preference, that's the way I'm "hard wired", just as gay people are "hard wired" toward the same sex and so on and so forth.

As far as preference goes, I prefer redheads, on the robust side with porcelain skin and large natural breasts, that's a preference :P

[Heidi]

58. Recommended. Any progessive who doesn't get it by now just doesn't give a sh!t. (nt)

[fascisthunter]

59. for those who don't understand, let me help:

did you CHOOSE your sexual orientation? Because if ya did, you may be in the closet. Folks do not chose sexual orientation. I am a male hetero... I didn't choose to be that way, I just get turned on by women and not men. That wasn't a choice.