A question for San Fran DU'ers.. Did raising your minimum wage to $9.79 kill small business in SF?

[Union Yes]

If any San Fran DU'ers could help relate to life in San Fran after the MW increase.

How is the small business environment in SF? Did the MW increase help or hurt or have no effect on the area economy?

Did the world come to an end like the SF area Chamber of Commerce predicted would happen if a MW increase went into effect?

Any input would be appreciated.

In regards to..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6880193&mesg_id=6880193

[CreekDog]

1. No and neither did the SF Universal Health Care program

:D

[Union Yes]

3. Thanks for the info.

I figured that was the case but wanted to here from someone who lives there.

Sounds like it could be a model for America to follow.

Take care.

:hi:

[dana_b]

37. and I like paying the extra fee

when i eat out in the City. It's written on the tab what the fee is for and I love it.

[conscious evolution]

2. Very good question

I know that when I was an assistant manager at a Burger King many years ago we did not lay anyone off when the minimum wage was raised.

[Union Yes]

4. Yup. Agree. It's mostly fearmongering from wealthy business owners, COC etc.

I can understand concerns from small business owners who don't turn a large profit. But from profitable companies that make a killing off low paid wages to their employess, to me it's a human rights violation to pay a serf wage.

Peace.

[Cant trust em]

6. It's all just a poker game. They're bluffing.

San Francisco still offers many high paying white collar jobs that will support the retail/small business community.

[Cant trust em]

5. I work for an agency that does micro enterprise business development

I talked to our policy analyst and he says that he hasn't seen a study that shows any ill effects.

[Union Yes]

8. Thanks for the informed reply!

I figured that would be the case. If anything a MW increase should be a positive thing in any local economy. But with our current economic nationwide slump, I wanted to hear from folks who know and have experienced life in SF after the MW increase.

Thanks again!

:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. When Oregon raised its minimum wage a few years back

all the $5.00 lunch specials in my neighborhood became $6.00 lunch specials, which was still perfectly affordable.

[Union Yes]

9. And I'm guessing many more folks could afford that $6 lunch than before the MW increase. Correct?

Just a hunch.

Thanks for weighing in.:)

[vadawg]

11. lol unless all you could budget for was $5 a lunch,

though it is nobel to want o raise minimum wages, its not a zero sum game, it does effect others, i for one would want a raise in line percentage wise to any raise in the minimum wage and i think people who have worked years to achieve say $15 would want a hell of a big raise if suddenly the minimum wage went to $15. anyone who dosent think so is free to explain if they would accept having their wages drop in real values (again)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Well, actually, the people who typically go out for lunch to neighborhood

non-chain restaurants are typically not the same ones who work minimum wage.

[vadawg]

19. still dosent change the fact that i, who makes good money have a lunch budget

that i stick to, so that $5 lunch special is my saviour, now its $6 a go, so unless my wages rise i am losing out and my wages have given me less buying power than before the rise in prices....

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. If your money is so tight that you can't absorb an additional $1 a day

for lunch, you got no business going out for lunch in the first place. You can brown-bag it for $2/day and save yourself $15 a week.

[vadawg]

23. missing the point, the raise in the price of the lunches has lowered the value of everyone in the ar

areas wage packet, its like inflation in that if everyone dosent get a raise then their salary has decreased in real terms...

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. IOW, you are happy with people less well off than you going without lunch

because you resent paying a little more for yours.

Nice.

[vadawg]

30. still missing the point, unless you want to wuipe out everyone who makes just above the minimum wage

put all feelings aside and look at it as if you are someone who has worked ten years to make double minimum wage, then they suddenly double minimum wage, either they will have to increase your wages or suddenly you are back where you started 10 years ago as a minimum wage worker. Are you prepared to take a huge wage cut in real terms...

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. The point is, you are still making it about YOU instead of about

the people who need help.

At my P/T job I make about $1 higher than minimum. I used to make @ 1.80 above minimum. I lost nothing when the minimum went up.

At my F/T job I make 2x minimum. And if everyone was to suddenly make the equivalent, fine. I'm happy for them. It doesn't hurt me in the least. In fact, I'd get a raise because my p/t job would be increased as well.

The fact is, we are ALL scrabbling around down here for pennies while fat cats are taking in a thousand dollars an hour. THAT is where the problem is - not with the fry cook suddenly going from $5 to $10/hr.

[vadawg]

34. and you are still missing the overall point, i use myself as an example

my union would immediately want to have our wages increased as well, as would anyone who was making what is now the minimum wage before it was raised, think about it you work for years to get a standard of living and then suddenly you are back to being a minimum wage earner overnight. Dont you think these people are going to want a wage rise and others, its all inflationary....

[nashville_brook]

35. so skip the Coke so someone may feed their family.

sheesh.

[vadawg]

38. missing the point, inflation is the point im making and how it effects everyone...

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. You do understand, of course, that if everyone got an equivalent raise

it would be the same as nobody getting a raise. That's why it is called a MINIMUM wage.

And people who earn above minimum are already making ABOVE MINIMUM - they lose nothing by someone else getting something. In my P/T job at the theater I didn't get an increase when the minimum went up by 80 cents - I've been there ten years and am earning well more than minimum. I lost nothing when the minimum went up.

[vadawg]

25. minimum up by 80 cents makes sense but when you have calls to raise it to

$14, $20, $100 then it makes a big difference, take you for example, you are making well more than minimum wage but what happens if they increase minimum to the same amount you are making, suddenly you go from having a job making reasonably good money to being a minimum wage worker, wouldnt you want to have a raise as well... this is the problem with the whole argument of raining minimum wage by large incrememts. Your ten years of seniority is wiped out...

[libodem]

10. To hear Repukes tell it

all small business fold up and die, if the workers make a living wage. Your question goes along well with my little recession post.




Republicans hate the middle class.

[G_j]

12. yep, ppl need to be poor, maybe even homeless

to keep this wonderful system afloat.
it's a small sacrifice to make...

:sarcasm:

[libodem]

21. Yes, we need an Aristocracy

and a serf class, haves and have nots, Billionaires and homeless people. I think that's why Lou Dobbs hates Mexicans. Keep the illegal workers out and get teenagers to go out an get those good fruit pickin' jobs.

[Union Yes]

31. I ckecked out your thread..

and recd it.

I agree with what you've said in both threads.

:hi:

[libodem]

39. thank you

The other thing that bothers me beside union busting and low wages, is the "death" tax. We need inheritance taxes to keep the money in circulation. There is a reason why we should not let untold billions simply be inherited to the next generation of wealthy aristocracy. It builds a leisure class of nonproductive wastrels. Democrats should be just as loud ad obnoxious about subsidizing a class of useless lay-abouts as the Repubs were about the welfare class. Same difference with a reversal of fortune.

[burning rain]

13. It's very simple.

If you can't pay a decent wage, you don't belong in business.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. I work at a small SF company --

10 workers total. The minumum wage increase didn't hurt the company, it's the fucking health insurance premiums that are doing us in! Almost $5000 a month for Kaiser coverage for everyone (with $30 co-pay for doctor visits). The owner is trying hard to do the right thing by his employees, but insurance costs are killing him.

[Union Yes]

15. I agree. Health care is far more crushing to SB than a MW increase.

Thanks for the informed reply.

Here's to hoping that strong health care reform passes. A strong PO or better yet, real Single Payer.

Peace.

[KamaAina]

26. 5000 a month for McMedicine?!

Not a big Kaiser fan here. I'm transit-dependent, and they make me go all the way across sprawling San Jose to get to them. Makes me not want to go back for follow-ups, etc.

[stray cat]

16. I could increase pay but not after giving benefits of 40% of salary

1/2 of which likely goes to the union rather than to real benefits

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. I'd say no.

San Francisco is quite affluent, and it's doubtful that many of the patrons of retail or other service type establishments would stop going because of a small cost increase (naturally the cost of the minimum wage increase is offset by increased prices.)

Another point to keep in mind is that many, if not most of the people who make minimum wage in San Francisco don't actually *live* in San Francisco. It's nearly impossible to live on minimum wage in SF.

So no, it's not the end of the world. Nearly all of the restaurants in my old neighborhood up there are still in business, and some seem to be expanding.

[chatnoir]

24. No. And there are many, many small businesses here n/t

[Union Yes]

27. Good to hear this from a resident.

Thanks for adding.

:hi:

[HowHasItComeToThis]

36. WHERE I LIVE JUST OUTSIDE S.F A BABYSITTER IS FIFTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR

[Godhumor]

29. Not even remotely an apple to apple comparison

San Francisco, an extremely expensive city to be a resident of, linked minimum wage to the CPI in 2003, so it has been incremental increases (To 9.79 is only an increase from the previous minimum wage of 43 cents) as opposed to the proposal in the other thread to immediately double the minimum wage to $14 across the country.

[Hannah Bell]

32. yes, all the rich people moved away, now no one has a job, hadn't you heard?