Do you know food stamps can be used for canned beans...

[catnhatnh]

...when a twenty pound sack and boiling water can feed a family of four for a month at a cost LESS than ten cans!!! Why is frozen food allowed??? Real nutritious stuff like bulk gruel and day old bread is TASTY!!! If they want to live like Wall Street bankers then they should work that hard. Are there no prisons, no workhouses? Etc, Etc, Etc....

[mrcheerful]

1. BOL, I see the food police are getting under your skin too.

[imdjh]

2. lol nt

[ccharles000]

3. k/r

[DJ13]

4. Were really regressing as a society, arent we?

Wont be long...........

[mrcheerful]

5. You left out the 50 pound bag of rice that one can also buy.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sofa king]

69. To this day, my old man won't eat rice.

He, like almost everyone else born in southern Virginia during the Depression, grew up very poor, and while he's never spoken of it to me, I have learned that his family lived on those 50-pound bags of rice for years. It must taste like desperation to him.

[imdjh]

107. My mom's that way about lima beans and dumplings.

Everyone else in the family looks forward to Thanksgiving, the one time in the year when we allow ourselves to have traditional American foods like dumplings, cornbread, and other carb and fat intensive goodies, half of which don't taste nearly as good as we remember them. Not my mom. She likes the stuff they didn't have during the Depression. In fact, she would be perfectly happy to pig out on cranberry sauce and some outrageous dessert.

[XemaSab]

151. I had a Bosnian roommate who lived on LENTILS for 5 years

:puke:

[imdjh]

6. OK, but what about people with food stamps (who have cars) shopping at ....

... the expensive grocery store while poor folks paying with earned cash shop at the places where you bag your own, waiting in line, or put up with Walmart employees and customers?

[MercutioATC]

12. People get a set dollar amount of food stamps each month.

Who cares where they spend them?

Yes, it'd be great if they spent them wisely, but it's their responsibility.

[JonQ]

113. But it's not their responsibility

because it isn't their money. For instance they aren't allowed to use foodstamps to buy alcohol or tobacco. So clearly we have decided as a society that is acceptable to limit the use of public funds for the indigent in some way or another.

Once you accept that premise then it is merely a matter of degree. If you can't buy beer because it isn't really food and you don't need it, why buy cokes? What about twinkies and candy bars?

[Kali]

14. worry about the rich assholes who send servants out to shop

they are your real enemy, not your imaginary caddy-drivin' welfare shopper

[mrcheerful]

15. Dude, here is a secret, not everyone using food stamps legally are poor

if you have foster kids living in your home you also can get food stamps doesn't matter where you work or how high your wages are. Get real and do some research instead of trusting your eyes and assuming everyone with food stamps is poor.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

75. What about working at Ford Stamping and buying pop

and twinkies with stamps and buying $100.00 worth of Lotto tickets on lunch hour.

Money to burn.


Doesn't sound like Foster kid treats to me.

[ZombieHorde]

91. People with foster kids deserve more than food stamps.

Foster parents is not a group we should be going after.

[ieoeja]

100. I have a six figure income and use food stamps.

As per your example, I had someone else's child come live with me for a time while the mother got herself back together. I felt kind of silly using the food stamps, but it was one way she could help care for her child while he lived with me.

A few months ago a friend of a friend called saying he was days from being homeless. Our mutual friend had years earlier moved into my basement for a couple years under the same circumstances. Does me no harm, the room just sits empty otherwise. So I let him stay there. And sometimes when I go to the store, I go ahead and get his groceries while I'm there ... and use his food stamps to buy them.

[mrcheerful]

110. My point wasn't about foster parents doing anything wrong but as an example of how folks perceive fo

food stamp users. There is a big myth out there that only the poor get and use food stamps so when people see food stamps being used to buy prime rib or lobsters or other stuff they used food stamps so they are poor. Btw, here in michigan foster parents also get $1,200 cash for each and every foster child under their care, the last I heard. Which is a hell of a lot more then welfare moms get or the majority of the disabled adults.

Edited to add food stamps

[meow2u3]

148. Some are just above the poverty level

They make too much money to qualify as being "poor" but too little to fend for themselves. These are the near poor who often fall through the cracks in the system.

Some others make a good income by the standards of a family of 4 but have large families; therefore, they need a bit of help buying food.

[niyad]

16. goodness, are you channelling ronnie ray-gun?

[imdjh]

31. Naw, just stirring the shit. nt

[Zoeisright]

25. Oh no! You mean people on food stamps are actually allowed to

have CARS? What is the world coming to!!!

:sarcasm:

Sheesh.

[imdjh]

30. The whole thing was a joke, but the car part was to head off the speculation

that they walked to the nearest grocery store, prisoners of distance.

[rwheeler31]

27. Why wallmart, if you have a car go elsewhere.

[Dorian Gray]

47. I often see people driving

Mercedes to the Whole Foods Market, then paying with food stamps.

Happens all the time.

[imdjh]

49. Seriously?

[Dorian Gray]

50. No....

that was sarcastic.

[pipi_k]

60. Sometimes it does happen, though...

There was an incident some time ago where somebody saw a woman wearing a real nice fur coat using food stamps in the grocery store.

The person who saw this got outraged and verbally assaulted the woman in the fur coat.

Turned out that the woman was a volunteer who did chores/shopping for the elderly and was out buying groceries for one of her clients using the client's food stamps.

I actually expected the same thing to happen to me quite a few times when I worked at a group home for the MR population. Occasionally I'd have to pick up prescriptions for those clients from the pharmacy while they were at day programs or whatever. One time after I presented the Medicaid card and got the pills the pharmacist very cheerfully said, "There ya go, L_______" (the client's name). He was a nice guy, but I always expected to get some nosy SOB who decided I might look too able-bodied to need Medicaid.


No good deed goes unnoticed by the loudmouthed bastards of the world...

[imdjh]

103. In some states you aren't permitted to use the benefit card for someone else.

[Dorian Gray]

124. You know,

I didn't even consider those things could happen, but you are right. It shows us that we should never be so quick to judge others.

[ourbluenation]

150. Did it ever occur to you that someone could be shopping for someone else?

just a thought. Or maybe borrowing someone's car.

[TCJ70]

58. I qualified for food stamps and owned my car at one time...

...I had paid it off while employed, lost that income and couldn't find full time work so I only had a part time job. I never received food stamps but could have. Would I have been a bad person if I had received food stamps while owning a car?

[Roland99]

143. I qualified for food stamps, had a nice convertible, and a 2000sq ft. house

but I was unemployed, going through a divorce, and was trying to avoid filing bankruptcy, which I ended up having to do anyway.

I was only on food stamps for a couple of months, though, but with no income, it shouldn't matter what one has when there is no way to pay the bills on things owed and there was no equity to be had in anything either.

[Oregone]

8. Who cares?

Canning factory workers and aluminum producers/recyclers appreciate the stimulus

[Zoeisright]

26. +1

And, that's not the cause of our problems. The cause is filthy rich people ruining the country with their greed and selfishness.

Let's quit blaming the poor.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Unfortunately, poor people tend to live near poorly stocked stores. Lucky to find canned beans.

Much less bulk beans or good produce.

[CTyankee]

72. I buy the smaller packages of dry beans and notice that they are lower in sodium.

Good old yellow navy beans make a marvelous soup. I make a good one if I do say so myself. There's just me and hubby at home so I share with my neighbor. She bakes and I don't. I do soup. It works out well.

We have a great organic, vegetarian market right in the middle of an underserved neighborhood. Everybody goes there. They take food stamps. Some of their food is expensive but lots of it is about the same as supermarkets (they have to compete with a Shaw's down the street on price). We also have a an Asian market downtown that low income Asian folks go to (I tutor a Chinese lady in English who uses this market). "IF you build it, they will come."

[donheld]

10. Either way I hope I'm not close when the gas set in.

[catnhatnh]

11. I've been unrecommended twice...

I'm bettin' I can guess whom...

[Bill McBlueState]

51. how can you tell how many times your post has been unrecommended? n/t

[niyad]

13. did you know (sshhhhh, come here so I can whisper) they can even buy sugar, and honey!!

not to mention coffee, and chocolate bits, and. . . .

[Individualist]

17. Horrors! The poor should be limited to nothing but organic foods!!

[varelse]

18. why so much?

a one pound sack of beans, properly planted in vacant lots, used tires, and paper sacks full of dirt, would feed the family for a year.

[catnhatnh]

19. All the post is about is this...

some will spend the stamps wisely and others not so much and others criminally. But stupidity punishes itself and everywhere in life are criminals. But the existence of both will never negate need nor help the hungry. A wiser buyer will be rewarded and a less wise buyer can be educated. But until you want to make actual meals and feed actual hungry folks, then accept that their free choices may be different than yours. And at very least give them the dignity to use this sparse resource as they choose...

[niyad]

21. can you tell me what set off this whole discussion, including another thread on this topic?

have been offline all day--looks like I missed something.

[catnhatnh]

28. OK...

a recent post decrying the use of food stamps for soda....that was the trigger but the gun was provided when over the last week or so a percentage of the community was diverted by arguments over a soda tax to the detriment (in my warped mind) to paying attention to the ACTUAL economy, two wars, the need for real universal healthcare, and jobs creation...

[flyarm]

34. thank you..a voice of reason!! eom

[Ron Green]

77. You're leaving out some things here:

*Stupidity punishes not only itself but others - in the case of bad food choices it raises costs associated with poor health.
*Public money often DOES make actual meals and feed hungry folks; it's all part of the continuum of services and supports in community-, faith-, and public-based resources.
*"...a less wise buyer can be educated." Right, of course. These buyers HAVE been educated, and are educated every day, by a corporate message system that advertises to their limbic brains for more consumption of the very poisons they're addicted to. The meager amount of information they get from County Extension offices and other government-sponsored sources is negligible by comparison to the massive propaganda budget of the Corporatocracy.

If buying a can or bag of corn syrup is about "dignity," then it can be done with dignity, with one's own hard-earned money.

[niyad]

140. you do know, do you not, that people receiving food stamps are often working as well?

that they have paid into this miserable little system, too.

honestly, some of the responses to the OP make me think I am reading some reichwing site--and I am truly disappointed in the virulence of the contempt displayed for people who are on assistance. quite frankly, I would rather my money went for sodas and chips and other unhealthy (as decreed by the self-righteous on this thread) items than
to have one penny of my money going for war and destruction. notice that doesn't factor into some of the bizarre responses around here.

[Ron Green]

142. I also would rather spend the money on unencumbered assistance

than on any kind of military-industrial activity. However, I still maintain that our tax subsidies to Monsanto, ADM, ConAgra and other merchants of addictive poisons are as pernicious as money for weapons. And as I stated before, subsidy at the consumer end for the most easily available products (those made from chemicals by the above-named companies) is part of the market-based "personal freedom" approach to addiction and slavery.

I work every day with food stamp recipients, and I know that many of them are employed and victims of the corporate money system, yet another arm of the imperial world we've allowed to be built over the past few decades. But if someone is making deadly food choices for his or her own children, it's up to the people charged with resisting the corporate drug delivery system to make policy on the side of good health.

This is not about banning shitty and poisonous foods, it's just about not going along with the market-based "freedom" lie that refuses to call addiction and slavery what it is. Tax money must be spent, where possible, on life rather than death.

[jmm]

20. Why give them a 20 lb sack of beans when seeds are cheaper?

It's not like anybody receiving food stamps works hard or has a family to support so they should have plenty of free time to learn how to grow their own food in their big back yards.

[Frank Cannon]

65. B-b-but insects are plentiful and are already in their backyards!

We live in a messed up culture that thinks it's better to give a billionaire a million dollars then a thousand poor people a thousand dollars each.

[mwooldri]

22. Cue Monty Python in 3... 2... 1...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[catnhatnh]

33. Not a Bad Cue...

I wonder how childhood would have been with no soda and why anyone would find that a great idea?

[flyarm]

36. ohh this one is good too...at your Monty Python link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1leDAwjtto&feature=related

Monty Python - The man who is alternately rude and polite

I love Monty Python!! thank you mwooldri !!

[annabanana]

52. hee hee hee. . and the comments aren't bad either.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. Can we have some more beans, Mr. Taggart?

[Ignis]

37. I'd say you've had enough!

Here's a day brightener:
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/saddles/bssounds.htm

[ezgoingrl]

38. Hey, isn't the Indian Chief speaking Yiddish

Soupy Sales?

[Ignis]

87. That's Mel Brooks.

But yes, he's speaking Yiddish. Here's a rough translation:

Shvartses! (Blacks!)(To Indian raising tomahawk): No, no, zayt nisht meshuge! (Don't be crazy!) (Raising arms to the heavens in stereotypical Indian pose): Loz im geyn! (Let him go!) Cop a walk, it's alright. Abi gezint! (As long as you're healthy!) Take off! (To other Indians): Hosti gezen in dayne lebn? (Have you ever seen such a thing?) They darker than us! Woof!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

29. Your food stamps should only pay for you to pick your own fruits/vegetables

oh and you have to walk to the place, no driving! :rant:

and those covered by ADA do not need to pick their own fruits/vegetables, however, they can't use food stamps for anything in package including milk.

everything must be loose. :think:

[Dr. Strange]

63. I don't mind them driving...

it's when they park in the handicapped spots that I get angry! If I don't see a visibly discernible disability, I go bananas! :mad:

:hide:

[CreekDog]

74. I disagree

they should take public transit to handicapped spaces. :rant:

[KatyMan]

82. and why are they in front of the store?

I mean, if a guy is in a wheelchair, he gets to sit down and roll to the store, he doesn't need to be close! Why should I have to walk?


:sarcasm: of course..!

[flyarm]

133. you won't see my disability..when i get out of my car in a disabled parking spot!

that is why i carry the Doctors letter in my glove box..because assholes have yelled at me when i park with my permanent disabled parking tag, and they think they are my doctor!

I didn't know only people that looked disabled were disabled..

see I would not explain my disability to anyone who harassed me in a parking lot..i simply call the police with my cell phone and get the harasser cited by the police for harassment!

I refrain from going bananas on the jerks who think they know or understand my disability! I chalk it off to ignorance!

[flyarm]

32. DAMN ..THEY SHOULD HAVE TO WALK 30 MILES TO THE STORE ..IN RAIN AND SNOW

and with holes in their shoes ..up hills and down..and to think ...if you dig a hole in the dirt you might see china..or is it, there are kids starving in China..i forget my moms stories..and if they only eat carrots their eyes will be like wonderwoman or superman..

geezzzzzzzzzz..have we digressed at du..I thought we used to stand for helping the poor or those with less than ourselves..isn't that what dems used to stand for ..pre-Obama..and weren't we against the war? and For health care for all??

fuck i can hardly stand it here anymore!

I need a break from the fucking cheerleaders and the lies, and propaganda and bullshit!

I know I am a democrat..not a "new democrat" but a lifelong 40 year democrat..my spots don't change as easily as some here do! Nor do my values and principles..too bad their are whores willing to sell others less fortunate out, so easily!

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. !

:thumbsup:

[Kansas Wyatt]

35. Oh Hell NO!

How dare those free-loading poor people suck on the government tit, by being able to buy food at the store with their food stamps.

The lazy good for nothing low life scum should only get some seeds if they want food. Make them work for it! Winter time you say? That's their fault they didn't work hard enough to live in a climate where they could grow their own food year round. For now, they better learn to like roadkill stew.

:sarcasm:

For those here, who like to kick people while they are down and dictate everything to others... When people vote against their alleged best interests, don't wonder why and don't bitch about it, because you have become your own worst enemy. You are Republican's wet dream.

[Morning Dew]

39. Day old bread? Day old bread? You damned enabler!

You can buy flour for the price of just a few loaves.

Better yet, it can't be that hard to grow wheat and mill it at home - a couple of children and some rocks, heck, it could be a new family bonding experience.

To hell with the freeloaders.








:sarcasm:

[Frank Cannon]

68. Haven't you heard? Mold is rich in natural antibiotics.

The least we can do is keep these people out of our doctors' offices with their filthy illnesses.

:sarcasm:

[PassingFair]

80. Luxury!! We only got the weevils. And we were...

damn happy for the protein.

:sarcasm:

[gmoney]

94. Don't forget the laying hens...

certainly a welcome addition to any household or apartment. :sarcasm:

[Jeep789]

40. LOL I like to remind those that are jealous that they too can

get food stamps and live the good life. All they have to do is qualify by giving me most of what they own.

[shintao]

41. I guess we should cut out the non-nutritious foods

We could save a lot of money by cutting out welfare stores, welfare rentals, welfare utilities, and improve nutritious meals so our low income and homeless would be physically fit.

There are plenty of military bases to locate these Americans. One location where they can get all their needs fulfilled. The hardest part of being homeless is being shuffled back and forth across town to get needs fulfilled. This leaves little time to hunt for work, eat properly, etc. We do a great job for our military and we can do the same thing for the American people.

[depakid]

42. Beans are nutritious- sodas are are not- but instead are a health problem.

Got any other any other utterly ridiculous and inane examples to offer?

[Jeep789]

43. So you think the poor don't deserve freedoms

at least, not the freedom to choose what to buy with the pittance we provide them? And trust me, it is a pittance as many middle class have recently found out due to layoffs.

[Chemisse]

45. If food stamps did not cover soda

Like food stamps does not cover beer, then they can simply buy them with their money, just like they buy shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, etc. It doesn't mean soda will never pass their lips ever again!

I have a soon-to-be-ex daughter-in-law who spends her food stamps on all the crap food you can buy. And that is what she feeds my precious grandchildren. If food stamps could not buy soda, perhaps she would spend them on something more nutritious, and the little toddlers would have proper food to eat.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. The research says otherwise.

If she has no sense about nutritious food she's not going to develop it overnight. That's one of the reasons that FNS develops food guides and nutrition videos with low income parents as the target audience.

But generally speaking from a programatic POV, the more restrictions on food choice, the more money must be earmarked for administering the program. Unless Congress is willing to increase funding for FNS programs that increased administrative cost will translate in to less money available for food. There's also an increased cost on the merchant side in training staff or coding items into the scanning system. At some point that cost becomes a deal breaker and merchants won't want to participate in the program.

[Ron Green]

81. Nutrition videos?

Give me a break. Compared to the corporate propaganda in which they swim, educational efforts directed at FS recipients are nothing. It's like the obligatory sermon at the church soup kitchen, slept through by a bunch of guys dreaming of their next drink.

Until it's acknowledged that the standard American junk food diet is an addiction for (mostly poor) people, fully supported by a seamless system of advertising, distribution and food chemistry, there won't be much progress. And it doesn't help for "advocates" to wave the free-market banner, accusing a public support program that seeks to promote nutritional health of somehow denying "dignity."

[Gormy Cuss]

83. Those were just two examples. There are others.

FNS does not have the mission of reforming the American diet and neither does its parent department.
Its primary mission is to increase the availability of affordable nutritious food to lower income people, not to force a change in eating habits. In spite of that FNS does look for ways to influence food choices through media materials like nutrition PSAs promoting good food and guidebooks developed as tools for those at the local level who are charged with teaching people about better nutrition choices. Another way that FNS promotes fruit and vegetable consumption via tie-ins to farmers' markets.

BTW, FNS research has demonstrated that SNAP recipients drink soda at about the same rate as the general population and tend to eat LESS sugary and salty snacks than the general population.

[blogslut]

89. When I was on Food Stamps/WIC

Well, actually, it was the WIC program that did it but anyway...

In order to receive our monthly WIC card, we had to go to the county health department. While there, while waiting they would take blogslut jr and give her a little medical once-over and then shuffle her off with the other kids where they would be taught about whatever the topic of the week was. In the meantime we parents were taken to a presentation room where we were often given a live cooking class, using the types of food that were covered by the WIC program. I already knew how to prepare nurtitious, wholesome foods (grapes are candy!) for my child but I absolutely enjoyed the information.

As for the food stamps, at the time, the $250 per month was a lot for just me and the wee kid considering I didn't buy a lot of meat. I preferred to mix beans with pasta to get our complete protein. California Mediterranean mix frozen veggies > Pasta > Italian dressing = Yummy healthy salad! I would earmark $50 of my food stamp money and take my babysitter shopping so she could buy meat for her boys.

[depakid]

99. The Oregon Food Bank offers nutrition programs and hands on cooking classes

that help people stretch their funds while preparing really tasty- not to mention healthy meals. The results really are amazing.

It;s a pretty impressive set of programs that people can help out with:

http://www.oregonfoodbank.org/ofb_services/food_programs/nutrition_education.html

[blogslut]

105. There are many wonderful informational programs and resources, I agree

Then again, there's the problem of accessibility to these forms of assistance. I had to take the day off from Cosmetology School in order to get my monthly WIC card and fortunately, the school didn't penalize me. However, I was without a car at the time and had to take the bus and if my town had not had an adequate Mass Transit system I would have been SOL.

I spent a few years in the Welfare system and let me tell you, it was not easy and quite often spiritually debilitating. I often wondered how someone with less education was able to comprehend the forms much less the rules of road. What unnerved me the most was the lack of communication and connection with the separate agencies. As someone eligible for food stamps, Medicaid and child support, I was qualified for the JTPA but would not have known it had I not been told by the local unemployment office - the folks at the DHS gave me no such information. I was unaware that I also was qualified for HUD. What pissed me off about Clinton's "overhaul" of the Welfare system is that it failed to recognize that the real solution would have been to tear down the walls preventing inter-agency communication.

[depakid]

111. "the problem of accessibility"

That's very true with the Oregon food bank's main teaching/learning kitchen. It's not an easy location to get to- though the classes there are amazing and empowering.

That's why it's important to find community colleges and other locations where people of limited means can learn to stretch their resources.

As to filling out forms and interagency communications- that's a really important point. One of the things Australia does well (in theory) is provide most services through one agency, Centrelink, which (in theory) provides better coordination and access.

[Ron Green]

118. You are quite right that being in "the System" is difficult and debilitating,

and clearly you are educated and aware so that you made the resources work for you and your family. As someone whose job is to facilitate communication among various agencies and organizations, I share your views about the lack thereof, and my point still stands: that "education," in our society, is first last and always Television and other corporate-owned message systems that SEAMLESSLY surround and permeate people of limited knowledge and means. The publicly-funded programs set up to help these families have not the slightest chance of being so effective.

[blogslut]

119. I would love to see PSA campaigns devoted to educating the public

...on numerous topics. The Ad Council is a righteous organization doing good works. However, even if there were an onslaught of social education ads, from my understanding, local broadcast stations are permitted to "cover" PSAs with local commercials - a practice I find deplorable.

Just the same, some PSAs do leak though and I very much support more of them being aired concerning issues such as low-income nutrition, mental health services, child safety, learning disabilities, public health and well, you get the idea. :)

[Papagoose]

146. "Nuttritious" can mean many different things

depending on the specific individual. We need to be careful when we start applying labels.

Certainly, soda is not nutritious, though diet soda really isn't going to hurt anybody. (Save the anti-saccarine/nutrisweet/splenda arguments)

I am a type-2 diabetic with severe insulin resistance and Metabolic Syndrome. Rice, breat, pasta and fruits are not much different for me than a spoonful of sugar. A lot of people would see me buying a basket full of meat and say it's "unhealthy", but it's the mainstay of the diet that is keeping me alive on top of the pills and shots that I still have to take to keep my blood sugar "in control".

I'm concerned about the slippery slope that we're headed down by telling people how they can and cannot spend their money - and yes it is their money once it is given to them. Telling people they cannot buy beer is not the same thing as saying they cannot buy a diet coke. Alcoholic beverages are not in the same class as foods, but like it or not, soda is a food.

Like so many other issues - the key is proper education - starting in childhood - so people can make the right decisions.

[pipi_k]

55. maybe we should let them buy beer, wine, and drugs

with their food stamps.

Would that be freedoms enough?

[Luminous Animal]

44. Far more of your tax dollars contribute to malnutrition

as a result of our military industrial complex, both directly and by proxy, than the pittance that goes towards sustaining our fellow citizens.

[depakid]

46. The goal of the food stamp program (and WIC) is to provide sustenance

for individuals- but more importantly families.

[EFerrari]

86. And we should all bow down instantly before the bureaucratic goals

of the government rather than consider the needs of the people. Gotcha.

[depakid]

95. "consider the needs of the people."

You said it perfectly right there.

Other aid programs provide funds for discretionary purposes. Food stamps and WIC are meant to nourish families.

That's a very high level need.

[sandnsea]

101. True, but coffee and tea aren't healthy either

And one of the people who objected to soda was perfectly fine with Kool-aid and sugar.

For most people, depriving food stamps recipients of pop or other processed snacks has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition and everything to do with resentment that anyone would use taxpayer dollars for anything except a bare necessity.

[Odin2005]

121. Yep, God forbid the poor be allowed to make their own choices about what they eat.

We all should be treated like children who can't take care of ourselves! :sarcasm:

I lived on Ramen and Pasta-Roni for fist year I lived away from my parents. I am so sick of that cheap shit I get nauseous just looking at it.

[mstinamotorcity]

53. What the hell you been smokin!!!!!!!

Lets get something straight bone head you sit there in judgement of someone what the f--k do you know about someones's eating habits you have never met. And who died and made you the damn food police. Most people who are on food stamps which now in most states they use some sort of debit card system,are economically disadvantaged knucklehead. They are in areas with limited choices and transportation so they purchase what is available for themselves and their family to eat. So what they don't want dried beans today so today some mother wants to feed her kids canned beans. Unless you gone get your as out their and go get the groceries and bring them back and cook them maybe you should stay out of people's kitchen cabinets and go back to eating your dried beans and bulk gruel sounds mighty tasty ha ha

[niyad]

57. I would say welcome to DU-- but here you are, brand new--and excoriating one of our long-time

members, apparently not understanding the sarcasm involved, which you might have gotten had you read the whole thread.

apparently, failing to understand the sarcasm really struck a nerve with you. but that is not the fault of the OP--only your perceptions.

[mstinamotorcity]

137. Not so

My bad the sarcasm was known to me. I was merely,showing another member how to engage in responding to a post.Being considered new is a beautiful thing. After a three year absence i probably am considered new. While i was away i was a little busy. I was taking care of my husband whom a local hospital butchered.Helping out four grown children two of those in higher learning institutions and three with children. And two of them are currently unemployed.Rehabilitating my body for two years for an upcoming surgery in which now i have a good chance at good results. working a full time job,preparing and taking meals to friends who get sick (mostly cancer) and trying to figure out why my oldest daughter would download a virus that had my system jacked up. And networking my friends and family in other cities in the last presidential election. Yes i misspelled a couple of words I should have proofread. my bad.and i probably could have picked another post. I was in a hurry to go back to work. and even though i could not personally post there were some thoughtful DU MEMBERS who posted for me under their usernames, they sent emails for me and helped me out quite a bit.I love DU PLEASE don't get it twisted.hell i was gone so long that i forgot my user name, password and maybe if i had some medical mary jane i could remember.smile.

[niyad]

139. so, welcome back to DU--sounds like you have had quite a time

[mstinamotorcity]

141. Oh yes

And thank you for not chewing my head off we can talk to one another any time. This has been a long hard road but i haven't given up yet. But these republicons are trying to tear us a new one. And it helps to know when you have support from your friends lets be friends. And i probably need to spend more time with the DU tekkies so i won't be out my hard earned dollar next time my system goes down. Keep the faith. Will be looking forward to reading your post

[cherokeeprogressive]

112. WTF? "Unless you gone get your as out their..."

Here's a suggestion: Before you go castigating DU'ers, buy yourself some writing skills.

While you're at it, buy yourself a sense of sarcasm as well.

Those two things will take you far in the world of DU. The skills you displayed in your post? Not so much.

[pipi_k]

54. Just in case anyone missed it

where it's been pointed out in other threads, nobody is DENYING food stamp recipients anything. They can buy all the soda or crap "fruit" drinks they want. Just not with food stamps, and if they're that hung up on getting the stuff there are ways to do it.

Like using a buck or two of real money. Food stamps won't buy cleaning products but they will buy white vinegar, which, mixed with water, makes a dandy cleaner. What the person saves on not buying overpriced cleaning products s/he can spend on soda.

Or maybe someone with a soda jones can buy some fresh fruits and vegetables and trade them for soda with someone who has used real money to buy soda but only wants fruit/vegies.


anyone worried about "freedoms being taken away from poor people", what about the fact that alcoholic beverages can't be bought with food stamps? If soda and "fruit" drinks should be exempt from exclusion, then why not booze or beer?

why not pet foods? It's food. Probably more qualified as being food than soda, but whatever...how dare the government deny poor people the right to keep pets just because they can't afford to feed them?

Anyone in favor of booze and pet foods being allowed on food stamps?

If not, then you're just as much a part of the "food police" as people who think soda and juice drinks are not food at all.

[Ron Green]

64. +1

I don't know what's so hard for "liberals" to understand here, unless they're really "libertarians" and confused about their own label.

Public money ought to be used for the greatest good possible, and that includes supporting healthy eating and better decisions generally. Our tax dollars subsidize Big Corn and Big Soy and their petroleum inputs into our food supply. This is wrong. When our tax dollars subsidize the consumption (and habituation) of those industrial products at the consumer end, it's just as wrong.

I'm sick to death of these "liberal" advocates, justifying the addiction and slavery of poor people within a corporate system, all the while screaming "freedom" like a bunch of Teabaggers.

[Odin2005]

126. Dictating to the poor what they can eat is reactionary, not liberal.

People have a right to a decent income without being treated like children when they get assistance. We are adults and can make our own decisions, if that makes health-care a little bit more expensive so be it, that's the price we pay for that precious thing called FREEDOM.

[petronius]

73. It's not that anyone missed that, it's that they are deliberately ignoring it

The food stamp issue now is just another opportunity to bash the 'controlling, poor-hating elitists' on DU - apparently, that's any of us who base our assessments of public policy (and other) topics relating to poverty on facts and common sense rather than rage...

[era veteran]

131. Thank-you

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Ah, they're all welfare queens driving BMWs and should be forced to redeem in dumpsters.

[Greyhound]

59. Please, everyone knows that welfare queens drive Cadillacs. n/t

[SOS]

62. Check it out

This lucky woman is eating canned food!
She really should get an empty paint can, collect some rainwater, gather scrap wood and cook dry beans.
With the savings we could lower the capital gains tax to 14%.

[barbtries]

93. first thing i thought of upon reading the OP

those without stoves.

[datasuspect]

66. this thread makes ronald reagan proud

[depakid]

96. Yep- catchup is a vegetable and soda's juice!

[Zodiak]

67. Judgment of others and a refusal to show anyone compassion

Not to mention a real fetish for a pound of flesh.

These are American sins that have reached such a fever pitch that they are stifling our society.

If you judge another person's food, resent what little fucking pittance they have eked out of this unfair world, and scan every aspect of their lives for some justification for your judgment, then you are a heartless prick and your political party or affiliation doesn't mean jack shit.

It is clear that douchebaggery knows no political party.

[Sub Atomic]

70. +1,000,000,000

:toast:

[era veteran]

79. Tent seems smaller today

[niyad]

88. wish I could rec this post--so true.

[depakid]

97. The fact that you even frame things that way shows what a sick and twisted society this is

[Zodiak]

98. Was it "ekeing out a pittance from an unfair world"...

....or "douchebaggery" the frame to which you refer?

[depakid]

104. The gist of the post

and the need to insult all the people who may well have worked hard (for little or no pay) on public health and hunger issues, who happen not to buy into the soda lobby or the libertarian point of view on food stamps and WIC.

Go volunteer for the local food bank, and see whether it changes your perspective.

[Zodiak]

115. My history is something of which you know nothing about. Nothing.

So I would refrain from that kind of assumption-making if I were you.

And I am not talking about people who work on hunger issues...where the fuck did I mention that? I am talking about judgmental assholes who cannot stand someone else extracting a bit of pleasure from life unless they are pure as the driven snow. The kind of assholes who say that welfare has failed because some people have air conditioning....or the prick who sees someone get out a Cadillac and uses food stamps ASSUMING that the person using the food stamps is the beneficiary.

...and yes, the food mafia member who wants every tiny bit of subsidized food to be the perfect granola-lovin' wet dream of a food, not considering for one second that small pleasures in life go a long way towards raising one's spirits.

If you fit that category, then yes, that makes you the type of douchebag to which I refer. If not, then leave me the fuck alone with your strawmen. Sophistry really is a poor way to strike your first argument with me.

Here's a fact: EVERY human being is a flawed animal. Every one of us. Too many are quick to pull the microscope out for other people's lives, but couldn't stand such scrutiny themselves.

This isn't about the soda lobby....like I give a shit. Don't tell me you are one of those DUers who immediately starts concocting conspiracy theories about someone you're arguing with being a paid lobbyist. Not only is such a notion laughable, but it is paranoid and frankly immaterial to the argument.

And this isn't about Libertarianism because Libertarians are exactly kinds of jerks who make the judgments to which I refer. Hell, they don't even believe in food stamps.

This is about ASSUMING you know better for someone's life then they do...to the point where you judge them, and then dictate and constrain their choices based on your judgment. It is the very definition of douchebaggery.

[Forkboy]

132. "Go volunteer for the local food bank, and see whether it changes your perspective."

I have. Save the perspective line for those dumb enough to fall for it.

[ourbluenation]

149. I do. And I work with the homeless. You are full of shit.

have a nice day.

[Whisp]

71. thumbs up. ;) thanks. n/t

[Spazito]

76. Wow, this thread is absolutely jaw-dropping (not the OP, the responses)...

I am really having difficulty discerning how those who want to dictate to the poor what is "good for them" and feel absolutely justified in doing that because, after all, it is 'their' tax dollars paying for it are different from the rabid right.

To see some posters here wanting to dictate what should be "allowed" beyond what is already restricted when using food stamps but would rail against the right when they want to restrict other rights like abortion. By the same argument then, the same people who feel justified in restricting what the poor purchase with their food stamps should also support those who feel they KNOW what is best for women and paying for abortions with tax dollars is wrong.


The hypocrisy is breathtaking, imo.

[mtnester]

123. This thread is TAME

TAME I tell you comparatively

[niyad]

134. and they don't get it, not even a little bit in their righjteousness

[tjwash]

78. That actually reminds me of when I was in college

I would live on 50 pound sacks of rice and beans because ramen was WAY to expensive.

Add in some stolen taco-bell hot sauce, and I was livin' large!

[Gormy Cuss]

84. The government would save a lot of money if they just handed out vitamins instead.

It's really good nutrition and there'd be no ambiguity about whether people were making the right choices when spending gubmint bucks.

[newtothegame]

85. On a related topic, anyone know why organic food costs MORE? How does it cost MORE to not..

include pesticides? Is it because the yield is that much lower because of bugs destroying the crops?

[rucky]

92. Here's a great article on the subject...

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/2006-06-01/The-Ecology-of-Pizza-Or-Why-Organic-Food-is-a-Bargain.aspx

-SNIP-

Meanwhile, studies have helped dispel common misconceptions about organic farming, such as the belief that organic farms are unproductive. According to the most comprehensive study to compare conventional and organic systems, organic farms produce yields comparable to those of conventional farms, and they consume far less energy and natural resources to do so. They also leave soils healthier for future generations.

Another myth is that organic farms are overrun by insects, but the data show otherwise. A survey of California tomato farms, for example, found that levels of pest damage in conventional and organic tomatoes were virtually identical. What organic farms had in greater abundance were predatory insects that ate the plant-eating bugs.

A third belief — that organic food is more expensive — is pretty much the truth. In some cases, organic prices are higher because of retail markups. Organic farms are usually smaller or more seasonal, so supermarkets have to purchase organic goods from more suppliers. But conventional growers can keep prices low by sheer volume. As the popularity of organic farming increases, supplies should become more reliable and retail prices more competitive.

But the principal reason that organic food costs more than conventional food is that it costs more to produce. Organic farming relies more on labor and less on chemicals, and in the United States, the former costs more than the latter.

[newtothegame]

108. Thanks Rucky, great article! n/t

[era veteran]

130. Rodale's Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening

Indispensable ,Older the printing the better. Organic cost are initially high and production initially low but as time goes by it flip flops, Compost could save the world.

[rd_kent]

102. ORGANIC is a rip off, plain and simple.

[MissMarple]

116. I hope that was sarcasm.

[rd_kent]

136. Nope

The high prices are a rip-off. "Organic" is a code word for expensive. I am not anti-organic, but the fact that "organic" foods are no more nutritious than regular food, the prices are out to lunch. Growing food responsibly will never be mainstream if it stays that expensive.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rd_kent]

106. Do you know that asinine posts can be used as flame bait?

[walldude]

109. Wow.. billions stolen by banks and wall street and now I have seen 2 posts

about food stamps. Is this a joke?

[blogslut]

114. Yes, it is a joke

A satirical response to those who suggested that people on food stamps should be forbidden from buying soda with those stamps. You know, because judging the choices of poor people trying to survive as best they can while maintaining a semblance of dignity is, IMHO, despicable.

EDIT ADD: A bit more commentary

[MissMarple]

117. After reading blogslut's comment to your query, you can tell her chosen side of the uh, discussion.

Actually quite a few good points came out about what people use food stamps for...from all sides. I believe there were more than the customarily assumed two "sides". One did seemed a bit more defensive, though. Several people seemed to know quite a bit about poverty and hunger issues, not that I was one of them. However, I was a teacher and do have opinions about trying to teach poorly nourished children.

This now seems to have sister threads.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6872010

[walldude]

120. I'm all for teaching nutrition but these threads have nothing to do with that.

What they are is flame bait. Just another excuse to pit Du'ers against each other. And they seem to work remarkably well.


THe only "side" I am on in this "debate" is the one that says I don't give a shit what people spend their food stamps on. It's a drop in the bucket.

These threads seem to be born from Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullshit. Yeah people on welfare and food stamps are living high on the hog and must be stopped. Meanwhile more people are joining the food stamps and unemployment ranks, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are still in full swing, the banks and wall street are telling us that we have to learn to live with the fact that they are stealing from us, and our hopes for real health care reform are in the toilet. :crazy:

[MissMarple]

127. Flame bait threads is right.

But there is some sense in those threads, from all sides. If we can get beyond the "I'm not a welfare queen for wanting a coke, you fascist pig" crowd, and the "Cheeto's are very, very bad for, and no you shouldn't eat them and food stamps shouldn't provide them" contingent, there is a good discussion that can be had. I actually thought I had fallen into Freeperland.

I was hoping the best thing that would come from them is a chance to blow off some steam. And then a thread on the purpose of food stamps (basic nutrition for health), how that has worked in practice over time, and how can we improve that. But, I'm a dreamer. People get very testy about their Mountain Dew.

[catnhatnh]

128. Actually this thread is a debate, not a "debate"...

Just because real people do walk into markets with food stamps. The discussion here is whether free choice is valid when people spend poorly.
Actually I can state, since I started this thread that the actual point is that there should be NO debate and that we should either give food or credit to buy food....and after the choice is made, we live with the result.
Many have described how carefully they would spend the value but few have been in that situation...

[Odin2005]

122. Yep, God forbid the poor be allowed to make their own choices about what they eat.

We all should be treated like children who can't take care of ourselves! :sarcasm:

[Beacho]

125. Heartily recced

This thread made me literally laugh out loud. I guess all the self righteous twats got tired of picking on fatties and now are going after 'Welfare Queens' enjoying that luxury known as soda.

[depakid]

135. Impressive as to how propagandized some have gotten

Born and raised on the mothers' milk of Reaganism and the so called "mainstream" media.

All in order to become pathetic.

(just so there's no ambiguity- I called your post pathetic).

[Beacho]

144. WTF?

Do you mind telling me how expressing my indignation at the self righteous makes me a victim of Reaganism or propaganda? Seriously, where the hell did that come from?

[busybl]

129. you know what?

what people buy with food stamps, what people eat, not your business. Live your life and butt out of other peoples lives.
(not directed at op)

[wickerwoman]

152. What do you think public policy is?

It's the use of public money to spark a desired reaction in the private market or in the behavior of individuals.

What do you think the goal of the food stamp program is? It's to provide *nutrition* to people (especially children) who might otherwise be at risk of health and learning problems.

It is the use of public money to spark the desired reaction of people buying *nutritious* foods for themselves and their families and then consuming them thus reducing the damage caused to society of people getting ill with diseases like diabetes which costs a shitload to treat in the medicaid system, and the damage caused to society by a large segment of young people not being able to succeed in school because they are hungry.

It's not "nanny-stating" or "the food police"... it's what the government does every single day in every single action and in every intervention. Nothing that the government does can't be interpreted as "butting into" somebody's life somewhere. I just don't see the disconnect in the minds of people who think Freepers are idiots because they oppose government intervention in education or gun control or health care, but think it's "fascist" to insist that public money spent on nutrition be spent on nutrition.

If you don't want the government in your life, don't apply for food stamps. If you take money from this program, accept that that money should be used to further the goals of that program. Because the money you're taking and spending on crap is money that another family can't take to feed themselves.

I would argue that a secondary goal of the program should be not just to provide nutrition but to educate people about how to stay nourished and healthy on a micro-budget, probably one of the most important things any of us will ever learn. These kinds of classes and materials *desperately* need to be made accessible to all Americans but saying that distributing them is "condescending" or "none of the government's business" just works against the interests of the people you believe you are sticking up for. People should have the right to opt out of the program, sure, if they already know how to do it, but I would *love* to have these kinds of classes made available to me and I think they would contribute palpably to the public good and to the health of the poor.

To me, that's government at its best.

[Le Taz Hot]

138. Yes, because a can of beans is EXACTLY

the same thing as chips and sodas. :eyes:

[Nye Bevan]

145. Canned beans are one of the best things to buy on food stamps

Cheap, nutritious and filling. At one time in my life when I had *very* little money canned beans were my main staple.

[bridgit]

147. Prisons? Oh yeah, we got prisons. Workhouses? Um, seems like there should be some around here...

somewhere but it is also the case that some food stamp recipients they may not even have a pot to boil said water in and steep beans over a still-connected energy source for hours on end. So while nutrition is key here; food does need to account for storage, prep, storage again inside a balanced, mobile diet. As mobile, sometimes, as people are forced to be. People should be able to exchange for pre-packaged meals and no I'm not talking Stouffer's. But pre-pack easy-store camp meals, or MRE's

As to why frozen foods are allowed - beside frozen food storage being a great way to keep that meter spinning - or certain pre-packaged alternatives are preferred over others; or why some are food stamp eligible and others may never be, or consider corp's able to lobby & effect such things onto paper you'll need to hike up toward the head-waters: http://www.conagrafoods.com/index2.jsp By the looks of their flash of usual suspects they display as 'clients', they've likely already paid more for one, retired-early lobbyist than we may make between us in our lifetimes combined