We Are Disposable.

[JFN1]

I keep waiting for change. Waiting for things to get better for my family, for my neighbors, for our country.

But, it doesn't.

A woman came into my wife's store today. She was completely bald, and she was wearing a wig that kept slipping off her head because it was not a real wig (she could not afford one), but one from an old Halloween costume. She had just finished up chemotherapy for ovarian cancer. She had been given - get this - a ONE MONTH health card by the State, as she had no insurance from her minimum wage job as a BANK TELLER, to pay for her chemo and time away from her job while she was too ill to continue working her wonderful minimum wage job.

One freaking month. That's it.

When my wife told me this today, I had to ask myself: How can our country treat people like this? And then it hit me - because we're disposable.

It explains a lot.

Big companies are not worried about us boycotting their goods or services. Why? Because consumers are disposable. If a boycott actually grabs hold, they don't have to care - just make a few extra currency trades, and they get those losses right back. So why should they care about a consumer boycott? Consumers are disposable, they can take us or leave us at this point.

Why do our Congressmen vote, so often, against our best interests? Why do they side with big business almost constantly? Why is it that big business has a seat at the table, a voice in the room, and we, the electorate, have only sound bites and promises? Because the voters are disposable. All a Congressman has to do is go to their big business patrons, who will promptly create a 527 group and wham! New voters appear.

How can it be, that a CEO can make 400 times what the average employee makes at their business? How can that same CEO cut benefits, but not executive bonuses? How can these mega-wealthy CEO's pay their employees minimum wage that is taxed at a higher rate than most large corporations pay after they find every loophole possible to avoid paying even their fair share of the tax burden? Because employees are disposable - there are always desperate, disposable people willing to fill the ranks of their companies - they've seen to it.

Don't you get it? WE. ARE. NOT. WORTH. IT. Individually, or collectively.

In the eyes of those who hold the wealth and the power of this nation, WE ARE DISPOSABLE.

We're of no more worth to them than the bag that lines their garbage can.

There's 300,000,000 million people in this country - and maybe only 5,000 of that number, are not disposable.

They are our elected officials, and their wealthy/corporate masters.

EVERYTHING - and I do mean everything - our government is doing today, ultimately works exclusively towards the interests of these few.

IF THIS WERE NOT TRUE, the health care debate, would sound quite different. Our leaders would be abhorred.

But are they abhorred? Or are they debating, and stalling, and endlessly discussing? Are they hedging, and pontificating, and making excuses? Are they bolstering, or compromising/watering down/eliminating? What will we eventually see out of all of this sound, and fury?

A watered down bill that has an impressive sounding name - that ultimately will signify NOTHING to that poor woman who came into my wife's store this day. It will mean nothing to her. And it will mean nothing to millions of our neighbors, families, and friends, who continue to suffer under the status quo. We'll continue to be...disposable.

But not everyone will go away unhappy - those few, those powerful, those wealthy indispensables - well, they'll be happy...

[niyad]

1. sad to say, you are quite correct. I really think they would like us all to die.

[nicky187]

152. If we all died ...

... who would cut their lawns? ;)

[liberation]

171. As long as we're useful, then we have a reason to be around...

... the biggest crime anyone can commit in America these days is getting in the way (or affecting in the slightest) the bottom line of someone else with wealth and connections.

[varelse]

2. And some DU'ers persist in protesting "all the hate for rich people"

:shrug:

[snagglepuss]

61. Define rich. nt

[sui generis]

67. "some say" "others say"

What the fuck does any of this have to do with "rich people"? That's your pathology, not "some people".

EVERYONE exists to be harvested. You are a consumer from the day you are conceived, and consumers fall on the books in two categories: those how have spent, those who are going to spend.

Everything else is about how much it costs to keep consumers spending, so when a consumer won't be spending any more, their usefulness is over.

Sounds cold? It's not. At least not until you get to social security. You see, most of the people who contribute to social security who SHOULD live long enough to need it die well before they can use it.

Wanna bitch about something, bitch about that: it's YOUR government, not the rich people.

rant over.

Edited to add: I am ABSOLUTELY the mortal enemy of anyone who thinks they're smart enough to succeed in a class war. I am one of the "some people". Fight the right battle, not the cathartic one.

[DireStrike]

75. Um, those rich people CONTROL the government

Not necessarily as a bloc but simply by common interest, and their influence.

[sui generis]

83. partial truths are not the whole truth

The reason we vote for populist leaders is so they represent us, not corporate interests.

Rich "people", as a phrase, are irrelevant. We're fighting our own straw men when we go there.

[DireStrike]

115. The people who are against us are all mega-rich. That is why their interests are aligned against us.

Rich people use their money to buy government influence. All the influence from the top, and against the wishes of the people, comes from the rich. Almost all of them work against us.

I don't know what you're calling "rich", but I'm talking about a fraction of 1% of the population. The fact that there are a few good people in any category does not change the fact that most of them campaign against us in casual pursuit of their own interests.

[sui generis]

118. THOSE people don't even know you exist except in some abstract

any more than we know their inner workings, except as an abstract. For the most part they're not "against" anyone. Merely "for" themselves. I've been on their periphery my entire life - it's not PEOPLE you have to worry about.

It's institutions like Capital One, or Providian/(WaMu) who are the real evil Example: CapOne makes something like an annual 100 B with a B billion dollars in credit card revenue, with about a 12 percent workout/net credit loss rate (people who default or pay slow).

And yet, in Richmond / Virgina alone CapOne spent over 53 million dollars on "legislative support" to try to take the caps off late payment fees and to get around their fledgling double period billing provisions, three years ago.

I sat in the board meetings where Cap One said they were spending billions in lobbying and legislative effort across the entire U.S. to find "opportunity" in reducing oversight in the form of fee limits, rate caps and billing practices.

The corporation itself is by far a wealthier "individual" than any truly rich person could ever hope to be, and there are a lot more of them.

[truedelphi]

137. I hate CapOne with all my heart -

When I first got my credit card withthem, they had a "trouble shooting" phone line so if you were treated unfairly you could perhaps get an adjsutment.

But as time went on, things like that line went away. They would even lie when I spend ten bucks to ask what my minimum payment was - then ding me $ 59 bucks for not paying the right amount.

I am not surprised to see they collect a tidy profit of 100 Billion.

And like you say, what this struggle of ours is about is the "Corporate Persons" who are running our nation right into the toilet. But for every Corporate Person, there really is a human being who owns said firm. And who could steer it back toward more just policies.

[DireStrike]

176. I agree with you that modern corporations are a poisonous institution.

There is no responsibility. No accountability. No recourse for citizens wronged.

To say they ENCOURAGE short-term thinking, failure to plan long term, and blind pursuit of profits regardless of everything else, is to give that word immense power that it doesn't usually have.

All of these actions and choices are made by people. People who almost invariably make the wrong choice.

The system has to be changed, yes, but in the meantime the system is working to make sure it will never be changed. In Michael Moore's latest, he shows a memo from citigroup - you know the one I mean? The one that basically states that the company's strategy should be to continue to control the government as one of the few wealthy and powerful interests around.

Somebody wrote that memo. Somebody said, "Hey, we can make more money if we just buy the government with our massive influence." Someone in these companies decides to challenge a law, or even to write their own, in pursuit of business interests.

You cannot blame the system without blaming the people that have the power to change this, and decide not to for their own personal gain.

[liberalmike27]

95. You are kidding, right?

Seriously, big money buys republicans, big money buys democrats. Rich people steer their bought and paid for leaders, to do things that help them, and hurt us.

The original poster is awakening to the facts, and has had their epiphany. Our system is nothing but one of legalized bribery.

Rich folks have all the tax breaks, all the loopholes. They get to buy all the politicians, they own and support all the media. Talking heads are all rich, at least to some degree. The main ones, Katie, Matt, O'Reilly, Rush, and just about any main show anchor, gets paid multiple millions, EACH year. Seriously, most of us will have to work decades to earn as much. And they sit and whine on-air about how much in taxes they pay, but they always fail to tell, what they end up with. How ridiculous would it be for Katie Couric, for instance, to say "I only end up with eight million a year? Instead, she snarkily asks Obama about how fair it is for rich folks like herself to pay for the health plan, as it put in place in the house.

The system is rigged for the rich. I can't speak for everyone, but people who are in the top two income groups, are knocking on the door to rich, though one must consider wealth too. A person could make several hundred thousand a year, but have accumulated no wealth, and not be rich, yet. Assets of a million would probably qualify most people as knocking on the door, and walking into the rich room.

But, I know it is a relative term. Just think about someone living in a poor neighborhood, where they have as a real, legitimate worry, a bullet flying through the walls, and killing someone in the house. Do you put up with that? Do you own car? Are you buying a house, or paying twice as much to rent one, as a payment would be. If you lost your job, would you be out of your house in a month?

We need a Great Compression, in this country. It happened after the last depression, but I see no moves to stop globalization, even in the face of 18 percent unemployment, yet another policy put in place, as much by democrats, as republicans. I still see pundits on the left, defending globalization, or should I say, supposedly reporting from the left. In truth, in television, and radio for the most part, there is no real liberal media. If you don't think wealth in this country has a grip on everything, that they don't make all the rules, and rig them in their favor, you really aren't paying attention.

[sui generis]

105. why would I be kidding?

If you want to break down some iota of philosophy on wealth there are many camps that govern exactly what that means.

1. If you were a billionaire investor who only takes in simple income what he uses for his houses and travel as fully taxable without any income "adjustments" to that number, and ALL THE REST of his investment portfolio, which incidentally is invested in private companies as much as public, and you whack off 40% of that per year, EITHER those company holdings have to be liquidated OR the government becomes a major shareholder in the least profitable of those companies.

Do you tax the money that is left invested at the same rate? What about money that is left in a company to guarantee debt so the company can continue to operate? The return on those kinds of growth holdings is at IPO time (if that). It's not the "rich person" who a politician is necessarily favoring - it's keeping those investments locked and those companies active and growing.

I know there are exceptions but let's add up - if you have 100 million dollars income, and you use 2 million of that at 40% and the remainder is based on your valuations and unrealized earnings at say, 15%, this "loophole" you're talking about refers to a net taxable rate of 2 * .4 + 98 * .15 for a net effective rate of 15.5%.

The villification of everyone who makes more than you do is wrong minded and avoids the REAL issues. Yes there are sharks in the ocean but they are not the problem, and there are many kinds of sharks in that ecology.

The arguments I tend to hear a lot of here are that "the rich" should just redistribute their "wealth". Net worth and wealth are entirely different things. When a middling wealthy person spends, it is because they have either liquidated stock, realized an investment, or sold a holding, which almost ALWAYS results in layoffs.

There are scales of wealth, as there are scales of poverty. There are ugly rich people and ugly poor people, and there are predators who prey on the rest, including politicians. The problem is not wealth. The problem is what the politician YOU elected is doing or not doing to solve the problems of his electorate fairly.

I'm not paying attention? No, just not as biased to either side. Edited to add: not paying attention is how one doesn't understand how consumers are harvested.

Somehow we always get around to the evil rich, which is unproductive. You guys bitch and moan and don't do anything after you're done, because you've talked yourself out of it, or because as it turns out, I'm right and the existence of "the rich" is not the cause of male pattern baldness, halitosis, or "the poor". Yes I used quotes, because here both terms are air quote worthy.

[Kermitt Gribble]

111. "The problem is what the politician YOU elected is doing or not doing to solve the problems

of his electorate fairly."

The problem is that these are the only politicians we are offered. Politicians, especially at the federal level, are propped up by big money corporations who are controlled by guess who? The very millionaires/billionaires you claim are not the problem. Millions of dollars are spent on campaigns - a billion in the case of a presidential campaign. How do you expect regular people to be nominated to federal office against that kind of money?

[sui generis]

116. so, hang the lawyers

guillotines are so . . . french.

:P

Caustic humor aside, so what is the solution? We seem to have lots of observations but what is a real, American, fair solution that anyone here can propose, with a straight face?

[Kermitt Gribble]

138. I don't have a solution.

If someone lets you in on one, let me know. People will have to put politics aside - give up the red state/blue state bs, recognize what has happened and unite to take our govt back. Maybe when enough people are jobless, hungry, and homeless?

[knixphan]

141. Hear hear-

How do we get to public financing of elections? That's what I want.

[hunter]

181. Public Financing? The big corps own the media.

Go ahead, buy all the publicly funded advertising you want, the corporate "news" will spin you into the ground as they gleefully pocket your money.

There is no major mass media news from the left, no real investigative media. It all leans right, even PBS and NPR.

Before public financing can be effective we have to kill the right wing spin machine.

[DireStrike]

177. You are arguing that because we haven't had a revolution, the rich are fine?

How about because they have troops and cops and intelligence agencies that cover their ass at every turn?

Not to mention the entire legal system.

Yeah, I'll go fix those rich guys. That'll work. Lol. :sarcasm:

I guess I should just stop bitching and moaning because I can't fight an entire army by myself.

[varelse]

128. The class war has already started

nice attitude you've got - everyone EXISTS to be harvested? All we are is consumers? Feel free to live your life by that barren, bankrupt philosophy. I do not accept it, and never will.

[sui generis]

133. it's not MY attitude

geez. I'm telling you what "the" prevailing attitude is. This is how business and markets view consumers.

Feel free to live your life with more nuance and reading comprehension.

[Nederland]

146. I hope not...

...because most wars are won by the side that has more money.

[varelse]

166. That's Warren Buffet's take on it too

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html

[Nederland]

147. <Dupe>

[nicky187]

153. If it's started ...

Take. No. Prisoners.

[scarletwoman]

3. k&r for the truth. Well said.

[rhett o rick]

4. I agree but what can we do? We need an organization fighting for the lower classes in this class war

we need a strategy. We have numbers and money, but we need to get organized.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

5. I'm asking the same question..........

and getting no good answers. Unless we get organized and shake off our collective yokes, we're fucked.

[JFN1]

6. What we literally have in this country today

is taxation without representation. Who has representation in our government?

Big Business/wealthy interests.

Not the People. More than anything else, the health care debate PROVES this beyond any doubt.

So what will it take to organize?

I know - and so do you.

What did it take to found this country?

[handmade34]

12. campaign finance reform is #1 priority

shop coops
start coops
buy local
boycott (even if you don't think it helps)
write a letter everyday to a representative/senator/president, etc.
become more self-sufficient
don't buy the lies we're told
get a few people together and start a business
make phone calls
talk to your neighbor
help your neighbor
quit using plastic bags
eat healthy
etc...

[rhett o rick]

17. I like your list. However, how do we get Congress to reform itself? nt

[handmade34]

21. well now,

you've asked the million dollar question. That one's even tougher than health care reform. It's promised by thems that want to get elected than they renege... it is imperative that we find an answer

[rhett o rick]

27. I think it is the most important issue facing us. nt

[rudy23]

158. Agreed 100%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6881676&mesg_id=6881676

I was just talking about this today. Nothing else will matter until the people we elect aren't bought off!

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Good list, here's one more...

Run for local govt.

You'll be given a load of crap by a few for trying to make a difference, but you'll end up making more of a difference.

[handmade34]

25. excellent

I have always claimed that I would run as soon as my kids were grown, and now I am stuck in a job that keeps me homeless - I can't even get a PO Box, let alone run for office.

[MrMickeysMom]

30. What a statement

in a job.... keeping you homeless...

You have a good resume just based on life. Keep hanging in there, handmade34!

[handmade34]

34. funny huh?

life is sometimes like that. After my husband died (took waitressing jobs and the like for 5 yrs while I was caregiver) I had a tough time getting a real job (being over 50...) and when offered this job living on the road 50 weeks out of the year, I had no choice. I cried myself to sleep for 3 years, missing my kids and home, but I've "toughened up" :shrug: I spend my time now writing letters to congresspeople, making cloth shopping bags to give away and sell and planning a cooperative (or lone if necessary) venture for the near future... My life if dedicated to my kids and doing whatever I can to make a positive change

[rhett o rick]

28. Is mr mickey a cat? My daughter is a Mr Mickey's mom, but mickey is a dachshund. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

31. You bet...

Here's that boy now...

[patrice]

32. Mistaken identity? That's a guy named Ernie who insists upon sleeping with his chin on

my shoulder while I'm trying to get my own 40-winks, speaking of which . . .

Good Night, All!

:hi:

[niyad]

35. gorgeous baby

[sui generis]

108. aawwww frizzly sweet drooly kitty

How old is she? I love calico kitties.

[MrMickeysMom]

182. He and his sister get senior food now...

at age 11 (they'll always be a big ole babies, you know) :-)

[sui generis]

187. unusual to see a male calico

Mine is vaguely basketball shaped, but she always was a big boned girl - Chinook-kitty or Fat Kat, and also known as the Monty Python Kat: She is the Kat that says "Ni", which is the only word she knows, no variations of any kind.

[patrice]

29. Absolutely right about Campaign Finance Reform,

I'm considering dropping most other efforts and focusing there.

One thing about putting everything behind Campaign Finance Reform, Voting Reform, and re-Districting would be that: if there is one legislative failure that would justify overt (non-violent) total RESISTANCE, like a national strike, it would be congressional failure to establish a valid vote: paper ballots, marked by hand, and counted publicly on a national voting holiday that beings on Friday and ends on Tuesday.

[prairierose]

78. good list...n/t

[DireStrike]

73. I wonder what would have happened if the British had COINTELPRO

edit: typo

[nicky187]

154. I don't know, but...

... if they had, we'd have ended up with National Health.

[DireStrike]

178. LOL. I guess that's one way to look at it.

Then again, with all those American interests potentially being granted British votes.... maybe not.

[Frank Cannon]

103. What did it take to found this country?

An enormous land mass west of the Atlantic, with unbelievable untapped resources and relatively few indigenous people.

Oh, and allies in other countries who just happened to hate the same monarch that we opposed.

[rhett o rick]

104. And distance from the enemy. The distance made it hard for the British to wage a war against us. nt

[Frank Cannon]

106. And lots and lots of forests and mountains and great places to hide

We can go on and on. Suffice it to say that the last time people in this country tried to violently overthrow the established order, things didn't turn out so well for them.

[liberation]

173. It is actually worse than that...

... personal taxation accounts for a larger amount of revenue than corporate taxation. That trend has been going on ever since St. Raygun got his dirty paws in our government, and many of our myopic resident assholes were (and still are) all too happy to play along.

It is worse than taxation without representation: we're the whores, and we're being asked to provide the bed... and pay for the screw. And looking at how this healthcare "reform" is turning out, it seems we also have to pay for the condoms too.

And the sad part is, that if there is ever a revolt in this country in the near future, it will be the poor people rising up to defend the interest of the rich and wealthy. We're not just whores, we are pretty dumb f*cking stupid ones at that... in the end we have no one to blame but ourselves. A collective of 300 million people being herded by a few thousands... even the dumbest sheep would have figured out what was up long ago. Not us though...

[Voltaire]

188. That is EXACTLY what it will take

And many are too afraid to even speak its name.

[kickysnana]

7. ACORN. They have a plan for your organization too. n/t

[DJ13]

8. Maybe look towards Europe on how to force the elites to back off some?

Mass demonstrations, even riots if need be, labor stoppages ...they've shown us how, provided our people have the guts.

(Which is likely the bigger problem)

[rhett o rick]

11. Good ideas but, there are millions of Americans that are not onboard yet. They buy the propaganda

of CorpMedia. We need to figure a way to get our message out to the masses w/o relying on CorpMedia.

[keith the dem]

135. The corporate overlords will always use the race card.

Europe is basically homogeneous, but here the the working and now middle class can be divided by using the race card. The tea-baggers opposition to health care reform is thinly disguised racism. I have heard people that the only reason for a government health care system is to provide health coverage for the blacks who don't have jobs.

This is how they control us, and cannot control Europeans. (Although in europe, the extreme right wing will always find some minority to blame to gain power, but those minorities tend to be much smaller.)

[liberation]

174. The sad part: Europe's strong labor movement was inspired in a big way by American labor

and the progress our forefathers achieved at the turn of the century. This country was then considered a bastion of liberalism and enlightenment, sure it had its warts... but I am not sure if people then even suspected the amount of devolution that would ensue in less than 4 decades starting with tricky Dick.

One of the saddest things is that we have devolved to the point that we're even ashamed to celebrate Labor Day on its proper date: May 1st. We've been brainwashed to think of it as a commie anti-American holiday, those silly Bolsheviks with their May Day celebrations... Instead we celebrate in September.

The saddest part? May 1st is celebrated all over the world as labor day to commemorate the triumph of American labor struggles. We're such a sorry bunch, our forefathers would vomit in disgust at what we have become, a bunch of complacent uneducated puppets.

[MercutioATC]

13. Opt out.

Examine what's really important and do that. I'm not talking about crusading for a cause, I'm talking about simplifying your life. Eliminate your societal "needs" and pare down to the things that really matter.

Note: This may necessitate leaving the country. We've become a very regulated (and taxed) society.

[tavalon]

48. Live communally

It really is cheaper by the dozen.

[MercutioATC]

49. Yeah, but then you have to deal with other people.

I'd rather leave the country than hitch my wagon to a bunch of other people.

[tavalon]

51. Survive together or die alone

Our nature is not to be alone, but to be within a village.

[liberalmike27]

97. I always loved what DiDi Meyer (is it?, white house spokeswoman Bill C.)

She used to comment, on class warfare "It's amazing how you guys are always complaining about class warfare, unless you are waging it on the poor," or something to that effect.

We need a living wage, to get rid of globalization unless absolutely necessary, to bring back making things in this country. We need to trim the gravy off the top few percent, to do all these things.

We are witnessing nearly the same thing as we did after the 1920's. We had a lot of the same things then, wild speculation and trading, a huge tax cut for the wealthy, ever growing wealth disparity. I've been watching PBS for the last few night, and they've been talking about Hoover and FDR. It's amazing, listening to it, how similar things are now, to then. Even with a few things Roosevelt put in place left, which are likely keeping it from being much, much worse, it's still bad. And it is a direct result of giving the rich free reign, through a very organized capturing of the media, the congress, and they are working on education.

The people who are the most brainwashed, are likely those who don't even think about it, about how the media can brainwash. Everything you've learned could be suspect.

[patrice]

9. We need to start building one of these . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_Cooperative_Corporation

But first, I think a bunch of us need to take a trip to Spain to study the Mondragon Cooperative.

[rhett o rick]

14. Thom Hartmann interviewed a guy that spoke of the Spain cooperatives. Very interesting. nt

[handmade34]

15. thanks for the link

I heard the guy on Thom Hartmann's show talking yesterday- I have started small coops in the past and now am looking to get invovled with some sort of cooperative venture soon...

[patrice]

22. I'm pretty sure they're coming.

I'm in elder care and some long-time professionals in the field are predicting that this is the future of Long-Term Care http://www.ncbcapitalimpact.org/default.aspx?id=146

Eventually, new alternative finance models will come along too.

[bulldog23]

180. commercials

Hartman sells to much gold now,,

[madinmaryland]

10. I am soylent green.

:shrug:

[Uncle Joe]

100. No, I am Soylent Green, you're just a cat with a lime peel on your head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOCsNrzlV2k

[lonestarnot]

16. Time to break out V again!

[nicky187]

155. It's getting close...

... to the Fifth of November, isn't it?

[sandnsea]

18. We Are A Cost On A Balance Sheet

Not even human.

[nicky187]

151. Costs...

... end up on an income statement. The closest "we" come to making the Overlords' balance sheet is as "liabilities." We're just a drag on the operation to them.

Given that there are so many of us, and so few of them, why do we tolerate the status quo? C. Wright Mills was an optimist.

[dysfunctional press]

19. that 5,000 only think that they're not dispsable...don't let them fool you.

they as disposable as anyone else. moreso if evreyone else wakes up.

[rhett o rick]

24. Problem is "if evreyone else wakes up". I dont see everyone waking up until way too late. nt

[dysfunctional press]

33. it may be closer than you think.

i'm 48, and i still think that there is going to be a major upheaval in my lifetime.

or am i confusing 'think' with 'hope'...? i always forget. :hippie:

[rhett o rick]

59. I understand. It is romantic to think that "We the People", could arise and reclaim our freedom.

But, practically I cant imagine a possible successful scenario.

[dysfunctional press]

159. with 300 million people out there, there are plenty of scenarios that could develop...

given the right circumstances and impetus.

in august 2001- could you have imagined a scenario that would have given shit-for-brains a 90%+ approval rating?

keep hope alive.

[rhett o rick]

164. Today the middle class still has a lot of money and resources that the ruling class wants.

We still have some leverage. If we wait too long we will be serfs with nothing they need. They can get cheap labor elsewhere.

It is past time for hoping. It is time for action. We need to organize, strategize and mobilize. But no violence. We need to choose friendly corporations and support them and boycott the others. We need to take control of the Democratic Party and the government. Take it away from the DLC/corporatists.

The time is now.

[dysfunctional press]

169. "But no violence."

that may not be possible, if marx was right about the rich & powerful and their tendency to want to remain that way.

it would be nice if we could fill congress with progressives in one fell swoop- and theoretically, with the right organization and will among the electorate, it would be possible- but we'd probably need some type of galvanizing occurrence- maybe a climate-change-related catastrophe...? maybe a HUGH and bi-partisan political scandal that's too big to be hidden or covered-up by the corporo-media...?

i hope it CAN be done without violence- i hope it can be done, period.
it would be way cool to witness THAT kind of history.

[rhett o rick]

183. I know that it may not be possible. CorpAmerica wont let it for one thing.

They would love violence. They are ready and we are not. They could shut off gas and food distribution and literally kill a city. The modern siege. They have equipped local police with combat gear and training. They have huge holding cells built or converted military bases, just waiting for the up rise.

Gandhi and MLK jr. had it right, peaceful civil disobedience. But even that I think they have covered in the Patriot Act. CorpAmerica can throw you in prison for demonstrating.

We need to figure out how to hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book.

[dysfunctional press]

190. "They have equipped local police with combat gear and training..."

ultimately tho- the police are human beings too.
and as such- they have their breaking points as well.

[blindpig]

'Violence'? That's on them.

If they would just go away and surrender their ill gotten gains there need not be any.

I wouldn't count on it.

[rhett o rick]

189. I understand. But violence plays directly into their hands. Then they can use military tactics and

lock up or kill dissidents. I agree that we could put up a good fight but we are not equipped to defeat them in a war.

[blindpig]

184. 'Violence'? That's on them.

If they would just go away and surrender their ill gotten gains there need not be any.

I wouldn't count on it.

[Scruffy1]

143. I'm 61 and still hoping

VietNam war, reagaonomics, the DLC, Billy Clinton, GW and I still have some hope for America, but to me the real problem is simply ignorance fostered by the media. There is not a spec of honesty in the MSM and to be fair the public doesn't demand it. Happier just watching football and willing to accept about anything as long as its not screwing with their bubble. Of course the apathy of the mass of the people can work to the advantage of change. The small number of Republicans who made the vandals look like frat boys had their way with maybe 20% of real support. I use this number because I know that only a little over half even bother to vote let alone work or donate. That is why I believe a coalition of progressive groups could change the nature of the class war in America. And make no mistake they have been shooting at us for years and recruiting Brown Shirts. A progressive coalition of 10% of the voters could certainly swing many elections in the US-especially state wide races like Senate and Governor by simply withholding votes and volunteers from campaigns. As far as money goes the Big Money will always have more and we'd just go broke trying to compete. Look up union contributions on Open Secrets and you see they are a drop in the bucket compared to Corporate. But, if we keep voting for any candidate that puts a D in front of their name we will continue to lose. you can't expect the people who are receiving the corporate dough to end the system.

[blues90]

23. You are right and nothing is going to change

It has progessively become worse and worse no matter how hard the common people try. We allowed it to reach this point over years and years and for what , to be handled like so many cattle headed for the meat grinder.

Unless we decide we have colletivly had enough across the globe in one giant effort and soon we are done.

[rwheeler31]

26. These things take time. Believe me it will get better.

[JFN1]

38. We're OUT of time - it's been, what? 30 years? 40?

As long as our politicians - our LEADERS - are wholly owned tools of the wealthy/corporations, NOTHING is going to change for the better.

We are on a downhill slide; a slide that began decades ago, but was accelerated a hundred fold by Bush.

The very people who are empowered to change things, all find that actually changing things, runs contrary to their own PERSONAL interests.

What are these personal interests? Maintaining, and if possible, vastly improving, their political career.

THEY WILL DO ANYTHING TO KEEP THEIR POWER.

Our political system has become so distorted, so...perverted, that we many find ourselves completely at the mercy of the comparatively few, and the very forces pledged to protect the many against the tyranny of the few - no matter the form that tyranny takes - are no longer acting on the People's behalf.

From our elected leaders to the press, from places where political neutrality is not only proper and expected, but illegal, comes support for the few, for this plutocracy that mercilessly grips we many...by our collective throat...

As long as we continue to convince ourselves that eventually these same leaders will change things, so that their free lunch ends...as long as we collectively and individually continue to believe that someone else, will make sure things change...

NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

[BeHereNow]

39. Some are still in the DELUSIONAL state.

Never in the history of the world has so much wealth (power)
been amassed in the hands of so few (the PTB.)

It is NOT going to get better.
It is going to get worse.

Not a "gloom and doom" theory.
A FACT.

BHN

[cali]

82. Actually, you seem confused as to what constitutes fact and

what you expressed is opinion and prognostication, but never mind, sloppy thinking is cheered on at DU

[conscious evolution]

85. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. +1

As long as our politicians - our LEADERS - are wholly owned tools of the wealthy/corporations, NOTHING is going to change for the better. :thumbsup:





We are screwn!

[tomp]

68. the govt of the u.s has been corrupted for hundreds of years.

the constitution itself is a compromise between the rich with slaves and the rich without slaves.

the genocide of native americans, the robber barons...there is nothing new here today.

big money interests have always owned the govt. it is extremely important that we realize this.

[handmade34]

36. I had a college professor tell me once

"to think smart,not hard" simple, I know, but there is such power in numbers (of people) if we think smart and outside the box on this one. These concerns are nothing new (100,000 were killed in the peasant's revolt in England in the 16th century) ...we need a unique approach

[enlightenment]

87. Are you talking about the Glorious Revolution, handmade?

The Peasants Revolt was in 1381.

[handmade34]

122. so many peasant uprisings/revolts, so little space in my head

thanks for the correction :-)

Peasant's Revolt 1381
Peasant's Revolt/War (1524) Germany
Russian (1667 and 1905)
Vietnam (20th)
China
Latin America
....
...
..

[BeHereNow]

37. This is exactly the point many of us made years ago... to no avail.

The bottom line is this-

While our "government" was raping and pillaging the people in other countries,
Americans ignored those "other people" thinking themselves immune to
the process. It never occurred to them that they were not "special" to the elite
multi-nationalist corporate interests in charge of the planet.

Millions of global civilians have died due to the actions of the US led military
charged with advancing CORPORATE interests, not US interests.
WE paid for it, never said a word as long as we were comfortable and had
our "stuff."

Now people are waking up and realizing that we mean nothing more to them than
the people we remained silent about for decades.

"We" are now "those people."

BHN

[snagglepuss]

63. Very well said nt

[snagglepuss]

64. K & R mand bookmarked

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

74. Beautifully expressed and all too horribly true.

[varelse]

130. Well said

the American "muddle class" has been expendable all along, but as long as we didn't recognize that, we didn't care that others were exploited and cast down - all in the interest of feeding the bubble that kept us feeling prosperous and in control.

[Umbral]

40. Welcome to the Class War. nt

[earcandle]

41. Now you're talking!

Mind if I post this to my website news?
This is good.  Well thought and argued.

A keeper. 

Thanks,d

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xicano]

43. On the nailhead.

First, excellent post JFN1 - K&R.

I have said it before. In my opinion there's only two things that can be done to TRULY regain control over our government. Violent revolution which I do not advocate because violence really isn't necessary.

The other way: more of us have to realize what JFN1 and most DU'ers realize and use that to organize a massive national general strike which needs enough people sitting down in the way of the machine that no police force would be adequate enough to disperse. BTW, in my opinion, when the police are acting on behalf of business interests when that business interests are acting against the public interest. The police are no longer the police at that time. They are instead acting as the military arm of business. At that point we the people who they are charged to protect and serve actually become the enemy to them. And that's exactly how they've been treating us lately. They treat us like the enemy.

Well, this is our country. We fought and died for it, not them. But who's benefitting? Them not us. Who's treated like "disposable" garbage? Us not them.

[Joe the Liberal]

44. What can I say? It's true. n/t

[shintao]

45. You can't win a race you are not in it.

The other day I presented a plan to end federal taxation, and create an all voluntary federal force, funded by donations. The purpose being to take the power out of corporations & congress's hands, and put it in your hands.

Unfortunately I was attacked, even called the dreaded "Libertarian" evil name (I am proud to be a Socialist!), and the thread was locked down. Seems America is not desperate enough yet to take back their country. It seems DUers here have no faith in their government, and even less faith in their fellow Americans to fund needed programs with their own donations.

So, no, I see no hope in sight yet. More victims will have to die to bring change, and then, probably through a Revolution and a cleansing of the upper crust. The civil unrest will be a lock down and more Freedoms lost. Sigh.....

[snagglepuss]

69. What Socilaist ever advocated ending taxation? And as for "cleansing"

the upper crust and violence - puerile and won't solve anything.

[LiberalLovinLug]

142. voluntary funding?

Sounds Libertarian to me.
Your plan also oozes corruption just waiting to happen. If members of the lower classes, the working poor cannot afford to donate anything or much at all, and the wealthier, that are left after the Great Cleansing, donate the largest sums to the 'federal force' it would create a perfect breeding ground for corruption, more so if Federal regulators along with other now defunct tax supported departments no longer exist.

Socialists, like myself, definitely believe in taxation. Fair taxation as you can afford it. One big argument is that it is the most cost efficient way to fund education, police, fire fighting, health care etc... A pooling of resources and a streamlining of administration minus the profit margin = less cost to the taxpayer. It doesn't mean an elimination of all private business. Only the larger most essential services in the country.

Unfortunately humans need to be compelled to pay taxes in order to pay for things that a lot of them take for granted.

[Corey_Baker08]

46. Inspiring & Unique Bit Of Wisdom Here--Excellent Read!!!

I really enjoyed reading this and the logic behind it is incredible!!!

[Festivito]

47. ... of the people, by the people, for the people, perishes.

We are a nation born of the people, of a fight against the entrenched powers of accumulated wealth in the hands of few.

We, apparently, must be born again.

[AngryAmish]

50. The world is indifferent to us

If I live or die matters not a whit in the grand scheme of things - the moon will maintain tidal lock, continental drift will go on and the earth will continue to orbit Mr. Sun.

We like to think otherwise - it is built into us. Every living thing thinks it is important. You know, spread the genes and what have you.

Cheer up - this insight of yours is merely the human condition. Philosophers have agonized over it for thousands of years.


Cheers!

[jimlup]

56. Yes but part of being human is having empathy

for each others plight.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. I don't think the OP is about the natural state of things

but about the unnatural vampiric system that has been developed by some humans. Not the same thing. Not at all. This is not about nature's indifference to humans, but of human indifference to abusing their fellow humans.

[AngryAmish]

62. Name the great regimes in history that truly cared about it's subjects?

That would be none.

Not caring is the natural order of things. It is the human condition.

[stray cat]

52. Of course - everyone is dispensable - life goes on when anyone dies

only not for the dead

[Orwellian_Ghost]

54. K&R

[warren pease]

55. Excellent post... good time to revive the great quote from Mario Savio...

...from back in December 1964. He was speaking on behalf of the Free Speech Movement against an autocratic administration at UC Berkeley, but it makes sense in the broader context of this thread:

We have an autocracy which runs this university. It's managed. We asked the following: if President Kerr actually tried to get something more liberal out of the Regents in his telephone conversation, why didn't he make some public statement to that effect? And the answer we received -- from a well-meaning liberal -- was the following: He said, "Would you ever imagine the manager of a firm making a statement publicly in opposition to his board of directors?" That's the answer! Now, I ask you to consider: if this is a firm, and if the Board of Regents are the board of directors, and if President Kerr in fact is the manager, then I'll tell you something: the faculty are a bunch of employees, and we're the raw material! But we're a bunch of raw material(s) that don't mean to have any process upon us, don't mean to be made into any product, don't mean to end up being bought by some clients of the University, be they the government, be they industry, be they organized labor, be they anyone! We're human beings!

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!

wp

[rhett o rick]

58. Great quote. nt

[snagglepuss]

60. Very powerful post. I'm lost for words about the bank teller. nt

[Cass]

65. Excellent post and, sad to say, spot on.

One of the best OPs I have read here. Bookmarking.

[tranche]

192. You're kidding right? We're all helpless and worth nothing is a top rated OP to you?

Puleese.

[katandmoon]

66. K&R

[conscious evolution]

70. Converting from the pyramid

to the obelisk.
That is what is happening.

[sui generis]

71. and some tough love about Banking.

Banking is a business. You do not have a "right" to have a bank account, any more than you have a "right" to have a credit card or a mortgage.

The REALITY is that it costs banks to maintain bank accounts. Banks look at how much money they can make off you as a consumer of their product. If you're not a good consumer, or if you aren't part of the the "revenue stream" for a bank, they do not have an economic use for you, any more than you would for a free loader or extra mouth at your table.

Banks however can't afford to be seen as "undemocratic", so they don't actively purge low-value customers. What they do instead is this:

They evaluate you based on two factors, your potential attrition risk, and your customer value index. Both of these feed into 1. retention campaigns if you are a valuable customer likely to leave the bank, and sales campaigns, if the statistics bear out you are likely to purchase a product that benefits the bank, such as overdraft protection. If you're bouncing a lot of checks by the way, you still get a low CVI, but they'll work to keep you so long as they can harvest your NSFs.

Ask me how I know.

The confusion that everyone has is that a bank is federally regulated and most are publicly traded, which means their governance has to comply with SEC regulation and some form of federal oversight. Banks in particular have their deposit accounts guaranteed by the FDIC, so the government has a bigger say in what banks must do to conform to some standard of banking practice.

Having said ALL THAT, banks are still a business, not a government service. We can scratch at uncomfortable reality all we want, but the facts are, money makes the world round, not good will.

tough love out.

Really, if we want change we have to make it out of whole cloth - we can't borrow someone else's broke down hand me down institutions and expect to succeed, although I am all for regulating banks even more - I'd rather overvalued banking stocks weren't something you want to keep in a portfolio, and I am entirely for denying any future mergers, period.

[Autumn]

72. Truth. Excellent post

:kick:

[NashVegas]

76. Glad To See You've Figured That Out

Best reason I can think of for not having children.

[harmonicon]

77. no shit, Sherlock (nt)

[ChickMagic]

79. Great post

I've often said that we are expendable. We're only as good
as the profit our blood, sweat and tears can produce. We
are useless eaters. We use the resources that rightfully
belong to CorpAmerica and to make up for it, our very
death makes a profit for them with their dead peasant
policies.

[cyberswede]

80. George Carlin agreed with you

This is classic. Sad but true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI

There's a reason education sucks, and it's the same reason that will never,ever, ever, be fixed...It's never gonna get any better! Don't look for it! Be happy with what you've got! I'm talking about the real owners now, the big... the wealthy...

The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything.

They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets, and they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They've got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying – lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that! That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers – Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.

And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it.

They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it's the same big club that used to beat you over the head with all day long and they tell you what to believe... All day long, beating you over the head in the media, what to believe, what to think and what to buy...

The table is tilted, folks! The game is rigged! And nobody seems to notice, and nobody seems to care! Good honest, hard-working people! White collar, blue collar... Doesn't matter what color shirt you have on! Good honest, hard-working people continue...These are people of modest means! ...continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don't give a fuck about them!

They don't give a fuck about you! They don't care about you! At all! At all! At all!

[Andronex]

89. Carlin is right...

but most people will never get it, and will continue to play this partisan game that the ruling class has set up for us.

[cali]

81. this shalllow screed containing some truth and some bull gets

posted daily

[Dinger]

84. K & R (nt)

[Vilis Veritas]

86. Perhaps, China and India are the replacements...

for the 300 million consumers that inhabit this country.

[deutsey]

88. I've been mulling this insight over for a while now. n/t

[flyarm]

90. has anyone really looked to who runs our leaders? Look at the WORLD SERIES FOR EXAMPLE

THE BASEBALL OWNERS ARE ALL MOSTLY THE VERY ELITE.. they 100% supported Bush..they in fact were Bush Cheerleaders..these are all very powerful people outside of baseball with huge corporations ..these people have all been very vocal "REPUBLICANS"

Now we see the New President getting real face time at the baseball All Star Game in July, and then last night..Mrs Obama and Mrs Biden throw the first pitch out..in the first World Series game..

hello people..lepoards don't change their spots..they just don't, not as drastically as it seems Baseball has with this new President.

The Baseball Owners were always very "cool" with Clinton..but were right up the ass of Bushy boy, a former owner..now they can't get far enough up Obama's ass and ass kissing him..and they are now running a scam PR tool for him with this volunteer bullshit..it is all to make you "think" he gives a shit about the little people..

ask yourself ..why???????? who owns Obama..is he representing you?? hell no.

So Now Mrs Obama goes to the World Series and is there supporting the military and Vets..when her husband is sitting on the decision to send more and more of our soldiers to war ..for what???????? Soldiers that are getting arms and legs blown off..and the UN is yelling about the damn Drones Obama is sending into Pakistan in record numbers that are killing innocent mothers and fathers and toddlers and children and grandma's and grandpas ..as collateral damage!!

I thought as dems we stood against these fucking wars to no where?? I thought as dems we voted for a guy who was the most "anti war"..it is all pr and bullshit folks!

Now Obama and his wife have joined the elite group of baseball owners who are historically very republican..who run huge conglomerate Corporations..that you are not party to.

So who is getting Obama's support?? YOU?????????

think again.

or just start thinking please!

Who is getting Obama's ear?? Wall Street...and those who have the biggest pocketbooks!!

You are not even close to being in that equasion!

Are you still sitting there waiting for that Change you can believe in?? Well the only change is ..we now have a new Preisdent who is in the arms of most of the richest ..the baseball and football owners..who are republicans by nature and business. And you have been conned by the biggest scam game going!

[Riverman]

120. Obama's original financiers in politics were from Wall Street

That is why Rahm Emanual, who made millions on Wall Street after he left Congress, is running the show in the White House. Why the Goldman Sachs mobsters surround Obama and run the Treasury! Why Obama is, and always has been, hedging on Public Option. Why Obama is so easily able to hand over the lives of all Americans to the Insurance vultures, the banking hogs, why there will be no reform of the health insurance system nor real regulation of the international bankers. America has become a slave colony to the corporate Lords - we are in insufferable debt, which makes us nothing more than wage slaves - if you have a job, or expendible if you don't and thus no longer serve any purpose as a consumer.

So what are we to do! What time is it? Time to organize!

[Captain Hilts]

91. And a decent public option is merely a bargaiing chip to the WH. nt

[hfojvt]

92. ah, another progressive doom and gloom

An anecdote about one woman who is having an awful life, and that means that 299,995,000 people in this country are disposable.

"EVERYTHING - and I do mean everything - our government is doing today, ultimately works EXCLUSIVELY towards the interests of these few."

So that means that

1. the stimulus bill only benefitted 5,000 people
2. same for the Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act
3. same for the appointment of Sotomayor
4. same for the Matthew Shepard act
5. same for the $400 refundable Obama tax credit

Also, since you railed about 'government' as if there is only one, that must mean that police and fire departments and public parks and streets and highways and snow removal and FDA regulations and the FLSA and the increases in the minimum wage and so on and so on - exclusively benefit the top .00166%.

Sheesh, the woe, misery and doom crowd loves their extreme statements. No matter how silly.

I wonder if this is just because our group has so many people who have no religion and so are kinda overwhelmed by the fact that "WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!"

[flyarm]

107. please do tell us what is not doom and gloom..this perhaps?????

Rep. Dennis Kucinich on Health Care Ed Show - State single payer stripped from bill


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=395772&mesg_id=395772


go ahead keep cheerleading fucking bullshit..

many of us will keep the names of those who cheerleaded all of us 350 million getting fucked royally!

[hfojvt]

124. that's pretty bad

but I don't think it's doom.

But just because I don't think it's doom, does not mean I am cheerleading it.

I wish some people would get over single payer already. We cannot even seem to pass a public option. Single payer is simply not viable, and it's not accurate to call it a betrayal when Obama never ran on single payer and probably most Congressional dems did not either.

[saracat]

93. And yet many on DU remind us we are disposable daily. I live in a red state.

I am told I am disposable. That is the "price" we must be willing to pay. I am in a gap group, too young for Medicare yet no young enough for other programs, yet some have said older folks should be discarded. I have "seen my day".It isn't just the wealthy that would discard their fellow citizens and deem them of no worth. Many right here do that every day when they practice ageism, sexism, and homophobia.

[Kansas Wyatt]

94. The Democratic Party was given a Golden Opportunity

But instead of actually helping the American People, which doesn't mean Chump Change Token Efforts, they chose to act like Republicans.

After 2010 & 2012, they will once again be asking why people vote against their 'best interests' without the slightest clue.

When it is all boiled down, Republicans & Democrats, Inc. is doing very well at working for and representing Corporate America. Too bad the American People do not have anyone to represent them.

[katsy]

96. a very sad k/r

.

[mudplanet]

98. You have exactly as much value as the value of your labor.

No more. You have no intrinsic value under capitalism.

Marx was absolutely spot on about a lot of stuff.

Time to bring back the guillotine.

[nvme]

99. I have no prob with the Rich!

Hell, I would like to be there too. I am willing to get further education, look for opportunities, and seize them should they materialize. The main perpetrators of the inequities are not individuals but rather those corporations that have ravaged our country and sold us the bill of goods. It is sad when you think about it. People (flesh and blood) are the movers and shake for these voracious behemoths. People, working against their own best interests for what ? A couple of extra zeros in their bank accounts. Sad state. This not an irreparable situation. It takes a lot more noise then we are making right now. We have to drown out the voices that seek to be heard above ours. It means banging pots and pans, It means hijacking town-halls. It means shutting politicians up b4 they speak. Learn from the tea-baggers. They made their presence known. A friend teaches tai chi (hope i spelled it right) and his advice to all his students is to take the moment of those who are attacking you, follow their intended trajectory beyond where they and intend and propel yourself using their momentum.

[bertman]

101. I agree with the gist of the OP; however, the hatred of the "rich" is misguided. It's the

GREEDY RICH who are the problem. There are lots of rich people who have worked hard and honestly to get rich. I know some of them and they are decent people who are caring, compassionate and Democrats. They give lots of money to charities and they are respectful and generous to others.

It makes it much easier if you lump all of your wannabe enemies into a big ugly ball, but it's not fair or accurate.

And then there are the POOR, working-class enablers of the GREEDY RICH. Think Tea Baggers and Town Hall meetings last summer.

[handmade34]

125. don't think it is misquided

rich can be such a nebulous term... but I do think 'rich' is a problem. I think there are people 'who have worked hard and honestly' that are comfortable and there are people 'who have worked hard and honestly' that are dirt poor and/or struggling. I know both. until the word 'rich' has definition, there cannot be an intelligent discussion.

[bertman]

139. My impression is that we're talking about people with lots of money and material possessions

such as property, jewelry, art. Where the cutoff point might be I don't know.

On another DU thread there were folks saying that someone whose annual income was $100,000 was rich. If your income is in the $20-30,000 range that might sound right to you. To me, that does not sound rich.

I tend to think that rich is possessing millions of dollars in personal wealth or assets. That "millions" designation can range from TWO million to HUNDREDS of millions or even Billions.

What do you think being "rich" in material wealth should be defined as?

[handmade34]

144. heavens- $100,000 is not "rich"

although I would not mind being $100,000 poor. Defining rich needs to consider 'net worth' and 'net income': Gross income is really irrelevent in this discussion. What I think is not so important as what can be agreed upon in a discussion. By current standards, this would be a very high threshold, but it is 'current standards' that are killing us. And we all know that money does not in reality define true happiness. Granted, money can buy some level of comfort and security in this dysfunctional society, but these are the things that community should provide us (once we decided to be healthy).

Hummm... I would start at $300,000 net income, with a net worth of $1,000,000. Over that we can talk about exploitation; arbitrary as it is. We have no consensus really about needs and wants in our society.

[YOY]

149. I'm close to that...salary wise.

and I am pretty fucking far from rich.

[bertman]

185. I think that makes the point pretty well, YOY. I'm making more money now at age 62

than I ever dreamed I would, and I'm sure some folks think of me as being rich. But I'm far from rich and know it.

I begrudge no one their wealth as long as they came by it honestly and use it in way that benefits their fellow humans. It's the greedy bastards who want to be kings or aristocrats who need to be dealt with harshly.

[YOY]

186. I think the problem is the truly "wealthy". The elite of the elites.

The board members and the trust fund babies. Those who get those ultra-elite positions based on who they are not what they know.

And many of the rank and file of this country cannot fathom who the truly wealthy are as well as just how much wealth they have and how they came by it.

[Uncle Joe]

102. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, JFN1.

[benld74]

109. 'WE' have ALWAYS been disposable

[Echo In Light]

126. +1 - the charade will continue only as long as it's profitable for vested interests

[Kermitt Gribble]

110. Excellent post.

We, as a nation, have been divided and conquered. The ptb have used individual issues such as abortion, civil rights, second amendment rights, etc, to separate us and make us fight among ourselves. We have been distracted while our govt has been stolen from us. Many on the right can see the corruption, as well. We need to band together (can't believe I just typed that) on this one mother-of-all-issues to take our govt back from corporate control. Until this happens we will remain disposable.

[RyboSlybo]

121. You said it Kirmitt Gribble~!!!

Kudos sir!

I couldn't agree with you more.

They want us divided, they want us hating eachother... and honestly they have done a pretty bang up job.

We need unity, we have to find a way to work together even with those we so disagree with.

I'm afraid if we do not we are playing into their hands and indeed we will coninue to be disposable.

FIGHT THE POWER!

[YOY]

112. The thing that libertarians don't get. You just said it.

n.t.

[libodem]

113. Yes

Fire up the gas ovens. Make them drive through. If you are sick or poor, go through like a car crusher. No one would give a fuck. Except maybe Mr Grayson.

NPR had a blurb about (I think Sweden) reconsidering their laws about assisted suicide because so many people come in from other countries for euthanasia services.

I think the US should make it easier to die if no one can get health care or financial aid to keep their homes.

[nightgaunt]

114. Very true words have been spoken here in the Great Depression

The problem is that they are holding most of the cards right now from crowd control technology to when the country's economy will finish its plunge into a Greater Depression. We can do so at any time. When the last remnants of the Republic are swept away as a failure they will offer us one poison apple in the form of their corporate theocracy. A smooth simple Byzantine machine of domination to really get what they want out of the world without hassle from us. Until we are reduced to wage slaves to them with the rights they deem we should have, they won't be happy. With over 307 million they can work most of us to death and still not lose anything in the way of their lethal profit margins. With a average 273 dying every day from lack of health care it just isn't enough. They want us to be on the level of Mexico or Indonesia in order to have full control. They want a young work force with a short life and that part they want to do their labor. Cheaper than robots.

If we are not careful all of us will be forced on a health insurance plan and we had better pay or a fine will be levied then worse after that. I can't afford it so I am sunk. How many of you can? How long do you have to live in their Heaven, our Hell?

[Deep13]

117. serfs are always disposable

We are hands for working and mouths for consuming. If we can't do that, we are worthless to our overlords.

[blues90]

119. Couldn't have said it better myself.

You would think by now people would understand this simple reality.

[fascisthunter]

123. very well said (nt)

[Delphinus]

127. You have described the situation perfectly.

:cry:

Money is all there is anymore. Life means nothing.

:cry:

[tranche]

193. Life means nothing. Exactly!

The sooner we all realize our lives are a monumental waste of time the sooner we can all just roll over and die.

[GreenTea]

129. Why do they hate the only voice workers have to demand better treatment, wages & security......

the unions.

Corporations management will never offer us any fairness on their own....

Management makes record salaries & bonuses.

We as workers have to fight for fairness, decent wages, benefits, respect, safety and retirement, and we certainly can't do it all by our-self, individually, we must do it together to have any real strengthen, a voice and bargaining power, which is called a union....

The republicans, the wealthy & corporations despise unions, because it takes money out of their greedy selfish pockets, simply because unions demand fairness for the worker.

[earth mom]

131. The picture I have in my mind of that woman breaks my heart. Disposable is exactly what it is.

:argh:

Everyone is disposable-even people who live on the Upper East Side, NYC:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6883524

[barbtries]

132. well put

and how i wish i did not agree.

[Goldenskeleton]

134. Exploit with novelty cards

I am new to this forum thing and I am trying to build up a platform to create novelty cards to exploit the "few" who exploit us daily. The cards are on the site www.goldenskeleton.com. Am I using this to market, yes, I don't know how to be just sincere, but I have a product. I found your post to be most accurate to the posts elsewhere to communicate my calling for artists and ideas. I am looking for conceptual artist to develop scenarios that fit onto these cards exploiting the greedy and corrupt. It is very difficult to focus on one thing and prevail, the battle against these people is in the numbers. People get great numbers and memorize the formula for profit then invest in assets, such as homes and such don't even want to back down or renegotiate there way of living. The source of all the problems in America is teaching an old dog new tricks, or in this case, teaching a rich dog, poor tricks, its about grabbing that compound interest, putting it in an offshore bank, distracting the people until the smoke clears, and justifying it later unless they are sociopaths, I think protesting is unfortunate without numbers, it gives the powerful ease.

[marions ghost]

136. Agreed

This country is among the most exploitative --of its own people-- in the world. Americans are living a myth and a lie everyday if they think that government really works for them. It works for business interests only. You get whatever you get IF and only if the controllers grant it. They know how to keep large numbers of people on a short leash.

Why do we put up with it?

I just don't know.

[cascadiance]

140. I vote we DISPENSE these so-called "wealthy indispensables"

Time to start a new party or work hard on the coming primaries to get them OUT A TOWN from DC!

[chadmak09]

145. Obama is not helping either.

sorry, but it seems obama considers us disposable also.

He preached change, and we bought it.

Are we even surprised that he sold us out?

No we are not.

And thats the sad part.

Welcome to america.

[Fly by night]

148. Eat the rich.

[cascadiance]

163. This costume might be pretty popular in the coming weeks if it were mass produced...

... and made cheaply for the "masses" to be able to afford it now!

http://gizmodo.com/211262/halloween-costume-greatest-hits-headless-marie-antoinette-roams-the-streets





And perhaps "modernize" it to today's "personalities" that are in similarly powerful positions...

[nicky187]

150. The term we used in the Navy ...

... was "expendable". At least we knew why we were expendable; we were protecting each other, our families & our country. Now, with your post, everyone else can know why they are, too. At least there were good reasons why we were in the Navy. This just boils down to greed.

Welcome back to feudalism. Or did it ever really end?

[Ardent15]

156. A few thousand people own this country...

"It's a big club..and we're not in it!" George Carlin.

[pleah]

157. K&R

[Better Believe It]

160. You understand. We are disposal commodities. We are the working class. K & R

[Martin Eden]

161. That woman should lift herself up by her own bootstraps!

She should work hard to cure her affliction (probably self-inflicted!) and/or pay her mecial bills from the sweat of her own brow instead of mooching off more responsible people like those billionaires for wealthcare.

Where the hell (other than straight to hell) is this country headed when the shortcomings of lazy good-for-nothings must be subsidized on the backs of the hardly-working aristocracy with the imposition of a marginal tax increase that will raise their unbearable burden to nearly half what it was during the Eisenhower presidency?

[Autumn Colors]

162. K&R (nt)

[Raster]

165. In the USA, corporations are the immortal persons with the long-term, deep-scale rights.

Those persons that serve the corporations as their priesthood are the important persons. Yes, you are correct. We are disposable.

To the military industrial complex, our children are disposable.

To the medical "for profit" corporations, our elderly are disposable.

[Honeycombe8]

167. Under the new HCRA bills, she would be able to buy ins. coverage, subsidized by the govt.

Isn't that so? If you're really poor, you qualify for Medicaid (in most states...unless your state has "opted out"). If you're the working class poor, you will now get help getting insurance coverage. AND/OR you may qualify to get ins. through the public option, depending on your situation and just how poor you are.

So your post is not accurate. Unless I've misunderstood these bills. But Howard Dean has given his stamp of approval, stating that although these are not what HE would've wanted, these are "good bills," and he would vote for them, if he were in the Senate or House.

[Better Believe It]

172. If she lives until 2013 she might qualify! Can you cover her healthcare expenses until then?

[scentopine]

168. Our CEO president. is treating us like employees..

instead of public citizens. We have near zero representation from Democratic leadership. All three branches of governments just whores doing anything for a quick buck and a chance to move through the revolving door into a cozy corner office in Wash. or Wall Street.

Time for a new political party. ENOUGH of this bullshit!

[femrap]

170. No wonder some people

go postal.

I read in the Rolling Stone that there are 300 white dudes in and around Wall Street who pretty much call the shots.

The 'disposables' need to organize and make these dudes consider Fear instead of Greed for a change.

[Stumbler]

175. Nicely Writen.

It's a bleak, pessimistic view of America and it's national culture, but view I currently share frequently.

[bobbolink]

179. That's half of it, and it's bad enough. The other half of the WHY is

BECAUSE WE ALLOW IT.

At some point, we have to recognize that WE are laying down for this, and have for a very long time.

[tranche]

191. Sounds like you gave up. Why even bother waking up in the morning?