So I sat my kids down last night and read them the story of the 15 yeard old Gangbang rape victim.

[trumad]

My 16 year old son---my 15 year old daughter---and my 12 year old son.

We talked about what each would do if they came upon a situation like that and each said they would whip out their cell phones and call the cops.

My 16 year old who stands about 6:1---215 pounds said he would intervene and try to stop it. I told him that it was brave to do that---but the best immediate action would be to call the cops. I said a crazed mob is just that---crazed--- and who knows what they would do. He told me he would still try.

I'm not slapping myself on my back for sitting my kids down to discuss this--- but these are the type of discussions we should have with our kids.

It's unfortunate that we have many parents who will never have discussions like this with their kids---and who barely talk to their kids.

I've often said that bad parents can be just as deadly as Weapons of Mass Destruction---

[Obamanaut]

1. 'rec' with no comment, because there's nothing I could add. n/t

[whathehell]

2. + 10

[BlackX-068]

63. +20

:-)

[raccoon]

3. Kudos to you for having this conversation with your kids!

"It's unfortunate that we have many parents who will never have discussions like this with their kids---and who barely talk to their kids."

Yes. ANd it's fortunate there are parents like you who DO have these discussions with your kids.

[trumad]

4. You simply have to..

From the beginning since they were little kids, I've asked them to always look out for the kids being bullied, picked on, etc... and if they see it---intervene. Also---never be in a click that does these types of things.

[lunatica]

5. I love you and your kids!

[trumad]

8. I am grateful that my oldest is as big as he is...

football player and everything. it simply means he is influential if he tells another kid to stop it. :-)

[lunatica]

11. It also means he's a role model whether he knows it or not

He could actually have talks with 'the guys' and influence them in very positive ways.

[trumad]

13. A leader--not a follower.

You got to pound it into their heads though because the influences are strong from their peer group.

[Captain Hilts]

71. A friend of mine just started dating a very big guy. She says it's amazing how respectfully

people treat him. And they don't even know him.

Big guys get a LOT of breaks smaller ones do not.

Hell, we prefer our presidents to be taller, etc. We're taught as little kids to respect folks taller than we are and never outgrow it.

[Indenturedebtor]

94. Well as someone who used to beat up big fellas I dont feel that way

My two toughest fights were with average sized dudes heh.

But the effect is certainly there in peoples' perceptions ;) In fact I think I remember reading that people in general tend to assume that taller people are smarter, more capable, etc.

[dysfunctional press]

99. "...people in general tend to assume that taller people are smarter, more capable, etc. "

well- a lot of stereotypes DO have a basis in fact.

[Indenturedebtor]

100. Hahahaha some do... i doubt that this is one of them

For one thing tall people have to spend a lot of developmental resources into getting tall and goofy :P Us averages can devote more resources to growing our brains and kickstands :D

[dysfunctional press]

102. and some of us don't have to devote any resources to it...

it just happens. :shrug:

[Indenturedebtor]

120. LOL if you were a real man your post would have been censored by our new Moderator GWB n/t

[dysfunctional press]

98. they just don't make cars or airline seats...or socks...to fit our frames.

a LOT of stores are charging more for anything above xl, when it comes to clothing.
and forget about finding anything with sleeves that are long enough- my choices are to have my wrists and forearms stick out like lurch, or roll/push them up to my elbows.
before the internet, it was EXTREMELY difficult to find decent shoes- i wear a size 16 or 17, depending on the brand.
and if you're working on a construction site- a lot more is often expected, as far what you can carry, etc.
did i mention the buttons/keypads on cell phones? with large rounded fingers, it often takes several tries to dial a number.


thems are the breaks, i guess...:shrug:

[Indenturedebtor]

101. Hey at least you can find stuff on the discount rack!

Every time I check the discount rack it's all xsmall and xxl!

[dysfunctional press]

103. and such wonderful stuff it usually is...

n't.

try kohl's- their m and l's generally runneth over on the clearance racks.

[Indenturedebtor]

119. Right on :) I pretty much only buy biz clothes as I don't much care about my appearance...

Outside of how it affects my earnings anyways heh.

[dysfunctional press]

121. i had the same one suit for about 15 years...

until this year when a fairly reputable local men's clothing place went out of business- i went with a friend who's on the large side and had lost his job, to help him find a suit for interviews- i ended up buying a really nice suit and a sportcoat for myself- more than doubling the 'formal' part of my wardrobe; as well as buying a suit for him as well. they were $800 suits, but they were 75-80% off at that point.

due to disability, i don't work- and when i did, a big part of my working life was spent in high-rise construction, pouring concrete...where we generally weren't judged on our sartorial splendor. i did join the corporate world, briefly and pretty much on the periphery, for a couple of years- at a level that required ties, but not necessarily suits. i had a couple of jackets and a few (gasp) cardigans that i rotated between, along with more than enough 'dockers', in a variety of colors...:wtf:...:puke:

since the disability developed and i stopped working, i've taken the suit out 3 times in the past decade- each time it was for a funeral. at least now i'll be able to wear a better one to my own, anyway- if nothing else. :woohoo:

[Indenturedebtor]

126. Ack cardigans?

:P

Yeah I don't get to wear a suit much. My office very much ascribes to "west coast casual" which means slacks and an open button-down. The no-tie thing is nice though hehe.

[dysfunctional press]

127. the 'upwardly-mobile-career' minded guys in the building wouldn't consider wearing one...

in place of a jacket/sportcoat. especially since ties were required.
i wasn't of that mindset, and didn't have the means for it anyway, so it didn't bother me to wear sweaters instead.

[Indenturedebtor]

128. Sweaters and cardigans are not the same thing...

Though speaking of history the first suit I bought was purple and green :rofl:

So who am I to talk?

[dysfunctional press]

129. a 'cardigan' is a type of sweater.

that buttons up the front.
although i would wear pullovers at times as well.

[MineralMan]

6. Excellent! This kind of discussion is a must with teens,

especially.

When I was a kid, my parents encouraged me and my siblings to read the newspaper every day. We had an afternoon paper, so we all read it after school. A good part of family dinner conversation was about what was in the paper. It made for some good learning time.

[logosoco]

7. Thank you for being a good parent!

My kids are 19, 18 and 15. Wish that I could go back to when they were toddlers and I could protect them from the harshness that is in this world sometimes.

My kids had it slammed in their face about 7 years ago. Their 24 year old cousin killed a 6 year old girl. That pretty much f'ed me up, needless to say. Helping my kids deal with it was hard. I wish I could have hidden it from them, but it happened and I couldn't hide it.

I have taught my kids from early on that we don't hurt other people. Maybe this incident is a good lesson in what to do if we see others hurting someone.

I worry a lot about this generation, growing up under the bush/chaney years.

[trumad]

12. Scary as shit isn't?

I see so many lost kids out there and horrible F'ing parents.

I've had many friends who have recently had Kids... I told them from the beginning that after you have you the kid, it's not about you anymore---it's about them. You can't be selfish.... and that's the problem. many parents continue to be selfish and only care about themselves.

[seabeyond]

18. not about you anymore---it's about them.... so right on. so very right on.

my niece had one at 18. i told her, different parenting styles and choices. i wont call you on those. each parent gets to decide how to raise kids. BUT, anytime i see you NOT being a parent, i will be hard and fast on your ass. that isnt ok

she had poor examples growing up

her mom would always say "i deserve..."

my very worst saying i hear from parents. makes skin crawl. you dont "deserve" shit. none of us "deserve"

[trumad]

23. Seriously---

Some who have kids think they can go on living like they did before they had kids.

Look at this Casey Anthony lady down here in Florida. She's accused of killing her little girl.

This is a young lady that partied 24x7 while her kid spent time with her grandparents or babysitter. it was all about her---super selfish.

You're right--- I've heard the "I deserve" shit as well--- deserve what? you made the choice to have the kid--- so shut up and raise it right.

[logosoco]

38. Learning from "other parents" is a big thing...

it sucks if you had a parent that didn't care enough. But I think many of these people turn that around and become loving and caring parents (okay, I HOPE this is true).

My daughter and her boyfriend just had their second baby. Their first will be 2 in Jan. My daughter is 19, her boyfriend is 20. They are getting married in May. They are some of the best parents I have seen. They have both seen (in both families) crappy parenting and they learned what NOT to do. They get very angry with 2 particular family members who just don't take the time with their kids. These women don't work, so they can't say they don't have the time. They just choose to not be there for the kids.I won't go into details here, but it is so sad to watch. I am sorry for the kids in our families who are getting brought up this way. I am proud of my daughter and her boyfriend for seeing that this is not the way to raise kids.

[seabeyond]

42. exactly.

i watched brothers three kids being raised (niece one of them) and knew what little chance they had, because of the parents. i am really very proud niece is doing such a good job. she is preg again too, lol. married a guy (not father of first one), but she is working really hard to make the responsible choices. again another pat on her back.

that is something we often talk about though, what she was raised with, reconciling it and saying, not gonna be repeated.

after typing about niece, i told self.... gonna have to give her a pat for being a good parent. good for her to hear, and i haven't said it for a while.

thanks.

[renegade000]

96. i concur 100%

Raising a child is the single greatest responsibility a human being can undertake. If you are not willing to make your child the center of your life, you shouldn't be having kids. As a parent, you are responsible for the moral and cognitive programming of another human being, and if you eschew that duty, you will be responsible for the pain of your child (and the pain of those who your child may potentially harm).

[Odin2005]

9. +1

[seabeyond]

10. grabbed my 15 and 12 yr old and explained situation and said, "you do know to AT THE LEAST call 911

dontcha. if not stepping in to stop, at least call for help". just last night, too.

told hubby

living in the day we have to teach kids to do right....

i hear ya

and pretty sure kids already knew and would.

[Jackeens]

14. Wonderful. If there were more parents like you trumad, well, you know. K&R

[Altoid_Cyclist]

15. You are to be commended.

Society is rapidly becoming a genetic cesspool. What was going on during this attack would be a hell of a situation to try to physically intervene. Your son could easily end up dead judging by the mob mentality that was present.

A surreptitious phone call would be safer, but you have obviously raised your children well if he would even think about physically stepping in.
This world is becoming like something out of Clockwork Orange.

[trumad]

16. I think if he knew the kids he might jump in..

If he came across it and didn't know who was doing it---I would advise him strongly to call the cops and not intervene---I don't care if he was the size of Shaq.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

29. I should have clarified that part better.

I was using the circumstances that if your son didn't know the attackers then it could be dangerous for an "outsider" to intervene, but I didn't clearly state that.

I'm nowhere your son's size, but I was always the one jumping into fights and trying to break them up during my younger days. But those were situations where I knew the people and I knew that no weapons were involved.

[seabeyond]

31. yup. my son too. dont always have to be big, to get it to stop

sometimes the smaller person has learned creative and useful ways to stop. or are respected, ergo they can stop

[Altoid_Cyclist]

34. It's not a panacea, but humor can work wonders at times.

I think one thing that helped me was that everyone that knew anything about me understood that I hate violence.

I think that there were times that they felt guilty or ashamed that the pacifist had to step in.

Thank goodness for the peacemakers.

[seabeyond]

35. yup yup yup, you are right on. son has respect and he reasons. me,

i always got away with it cause violence makes me sick... just flat out, feel like i am gonna vomit, cannot stand it.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

43. We still talk about the one fight that my brother had with my Dad.

My Dad was a physically unimposing figure. He was the one that taught us that violence is a last resort only to be used when and if necessary. This was his view on both wars and personal dealings.

I still don't know what started it, but one of my brothers was really giving Dad a hard time about something. My brother still laughs about it, but at some point he lost it and drew his fist back to hit my Dad.
My brother says it wasn't a real fight though. He says that all he remembers is starting to throw the punch and the sound of Dad's fist hitting him and my brother hitting the ground. That was the first and last time that my brother did something that stupid.

Never underestimate the strength of a father who grew up on a farm and worked his butt off his whole life.

[seabeyond]

45. my husband has a story like that, the one time he mouthed off to his mom

and his father grabbed him.

he has shared with our sons.

father/sons often have to square off.... but not seeing it with oldest. youngest, it might have to happen, lol

[proteus_lives]

66. That's true.

I once almost got in a fistfight with my dad when I was 18. The direct issues are too complicated to get into but our relationship was different from that point. (not in a bad way) It's common theme in father/son relationships.

Be it verbal, physical or other, there has to be a moment when the younger male makes a break or attempts to undermine the direct influence/authority of the older alpha male. It sounds somewhat silly typed out but it's true. I think a lot of men and boys go through it without realizing it.

[seabeyond]

74. gosh, sure it is true. but then the same happens with moms and daughters too.

first we bond with the opposite gender, at 4, 5, 6 father/daughter, the daughter finds her worth as female. son finds his worth as male. then about teenage, we bond with gender familiar. mom/daughter, father/son and learn who we are. THEN.... we have to CUT that cord, lol

both parents important for children

males do it puffing chest

females,

lol, hairpulling and nails (claws), lol.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

68. HAPPENED TO ME FROM MY FATHER THE UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR

I WAS DRUNK AND HE HAD HAD IT

[Altoid_Cyclist]

107. I guess that my brother found it useful as a learning tool even though our Dad was a Veterinarian.

He ended up becoming an elementary school teacher. After he received his Doctorate, he became a school administrator but found that he preferred teaching over the politics involved in running schools. He went back to teaching even though it didn't pay as well, but he was a lot happier teaching than sitting in an office.

The strange part is that now that he's retired from teaching, he's a small town politician in Indiana. He says that dealing with kids all of those years sort of prepared him for dealing with other politicians.

Ah, the circle of life.

[demigoddess]

72. my sons were often picked on etc in school, and when they saw someone else

being picked on, they became friends with the kid. Harder to pick on two than one. Also if two do it there is a pack of kids and they can stick together and that makes it really hard for bullies.

[seabeyond]

19. i dont know. can change the shift, direction of mob mentality easily. a NO....

can get a lot of kids that know better, just not brave enough or going with mob to shift to your side.

i dont believe that

would have to be a "at the moment" call

[Le Taz Hot]

17. "bad parents can be just as deadly

as Weapons of Mass Destruction---" Ain't it the truth? The WORST pandemic in this country is people who have no business having kids having kids. Early and often. I ride the bus all the time and the things I see people doing to these poor children make my stomach turn. I watched a baby probably about a year old get slapped in the face by his 16-year-old mother (I heard that while she was on her cell phone completely ignoring the needs of her child) because he was "squirming." I gave her a dirty look at which time she said, "What? He's MY baby!" Needless to say, the kid HOWLED which REALLY pissed her off. I'm sure she gave him a REAL good lesson when she got off that bus. :puke:

[trumad]

21. it is really not a class thing in my opinion...

not saying you said it was---but parents who are well off can be just as big of douchebags as poor parents.

[seabeyond]

25. yup. i had kids in private, lower income public and upper income public....

they may be different choices, but in all three situations i saw non parenting going on.

[Le Taz Hot]

41. Oh, you bet they can!

They just don't ride the public transportation system where it's out in the open.

[Hello_Kitty]

125. Exhibit A: George HW and Barbara Bush. eom

[truedelphi]

61. It is such a tragedy, that abused kids grow up to

Abuse their kids. Some researcher went back and had members of a parenting class interviewed. Several of them made comments like, "Well, they say not to hit your kids, but how silly is that?"

I was shopping for shoes one day, and this very well dressed young woman put her toddler in a chair as far away from her as could be. And when he got out of the chair, after some ten minutes of sitting there, she went over and threatened him with a very long, very sharp looking hat pin.

I then called security but they did not want to intervene. They said it would be her word agaisnt mine.

[Soylent Brice]

20. K&R

[Jennicut]

22. My kids are way to young to talk about it with them (4 and 5) but even they

know that if someone was hurt and needed help that you need to call 911 and get help. They may not know how to dial it yet by themselves but they have empathy even at this young age. It has to be a constant dialogue every year they are still under your care.

[seabeyond]

26. you are right. my kids know. i think talking to our older kids, saying out loud, telling the story

is more to say out loud and tell the story and let them say "duh" of course you help.

when i talked to my boys i told them, the kid in chicago that was beaten to death with watchers and the 15 yr old gang raped.

was just more conversation about people not being responsible. which opens to more conversation, interaction, connection. always a good thing with teen

[Jennicut]

27. Definitely. My next door neighbors have two girls, 13 and 14.

She is always talking to them about being responsible and helping others and they are really good kids (my girls really look up to them).

Talking to your teens is the best thing a parent can do. Too many parents just let the relationship slide at that point as it can be hard to deal with a teen, I know I was not easy to get through to at 13 to 15 but teens do listen.

[seabeyond]

28. not only do they listen, but with the connection from baby, .... and all their life talking

they will talk as teens, and i listen.

the niftiest has happened this year with my oldest. i am picking youngest up, dropping off at home, then picking oldest from freshman in highschool. i have found that he steps in car and starts talking. i listen, prompt but dont say a lot. just listen. he will talk all the way home. then i park in garage and we sit, while he continues to talk. no hurry, no jumping out of car. just sit and listen. he talks. we have sat in that car for a half hour, until HE finishes. no impatience, no i am done, no we are here.... i just wait

until his hand goes to the doorhandle to get out

it has been so good. so glad that we are here doing this.

[Jennicut]

30. That is great. My parents always listened to me and we are still close.

I am 33 and my brother 37 and we still go over my parents house (same one we grew up in) several times a week.

[seabeyond]

32. ya. as teen i respected my parents, valued what they had to say and

i considered mom best friend, knew ALWAYS she would be honest and my best interest priority. not once can i point to her actions as selfish. good example. and i have to this day good relationship with father (mother died, but always with her too. at the end of her life, i did not have regret, we said everything while she was around)

so i didnt fear the teenage time. i didnt think they had to have that "attitude" and peers had control, not me. and i always pointed out how tv like disney promoted the snarky, disrespectful teen attitude as if it was a norm, and it really did not have to be.

just more conditioning

my oldest HATES the idea of being conditioned, so works for me.

[Jennicut]

33. I just hope my girls think of me in that way...my Mom is definitely my best friend now.

Good luck with your kids, they sound like they have the right priorities.

[seabeyond]

37. thumbs up

backatcha

[madmom]

48. Kids that age DO understand empathy and know when something can be

done. When my daughter was in kindergarten, the class went to a bathroom break and they all went back one at a time as they finished. On her way back there was a little girl standing there crying, she went up and asked her what was wrong. The little girl was new to the school and couldn't find her way back to her room. My daughter took her by the hand and took her back. They have been best friends since. They are 25 and have absolutely nothing else in common, but they still love each other. (I love to tell this story.) :loveya:

[seabeyond]

49. i love hearing it. ya... so capable, they can teach us adults again. nt

[Jennicut]

64. Aww, that is so cute.

I am planning on taking my girls along this year to volunteer for some things for Christmas. We will buy a toy for some kids who have none, too. I think it is important to develop that caring attitude at a young age.

[nradisic]

24. K&R

We should all do the same with our kids....that is called good parenting. Kudos.

[eagertolearn]

36. Sometimes it is hard to talk to teens but I have always talked to them

about life and real situations that are going on since they were young. They knew and loved my brother even though he was a homeless and had a problem with drinking (and eventually drank himself to death). If you try and protect them from what is going on they end up only thinking about themselves. I grew up with no discussions with my parents and infact we were locked out of their part of the house most of the time. My three are 18, 17 and 15 and I love who they have become and I hope they will go find jobs to help people because of the way we have raised them. We also need to reach out to kids who don't have "parenting" going on and be an example to them as much as we can. Just talking with them and letting them know you care can make a difference in someone's life.

[malaise]

39. Rec for a great parent

:yourock:

[Beetwasher]

40. You're A Good Man Tru, I'm Learning From You

As a relatively new parent, I will try to remember your actions and emulate them. This is good stuff. Thanks!

[Iggo]

44. You did what you're supposed to do.

Good Dad.:fistbump:

[havocmom]

46. You are correct; these are discussions parents/kids need to have.

As part of my job, I often see what young people are really concerned about, and get a pretty clear picture that too many of them do not have parents who are willing to deal with the realities of kids' lives.

Too many parents want to stay comfortable in their delusions that bad things just do not happen to the kids they know and that the young people are all happily unencumbered by the stress of societal ills. So many parents don't have a clue about what kids are hearing, seeing, feeling, suffering with.

Kudos to all the parents who really parent. And to the rest of the village it takes to raise a child, do what you can to be a real friend to some of the young people in your corner of the village.

Mentoring does not have to be formal. Teaching moments are out there all the time. A bit of effort pays off big to let some young people see you are a good person to talk to, bounce ideas off, eventually even share problems with. And you can get so much back from the little effort it takes to recognize and meet those teaching moments. You start gaining 'friend moments' and that is a gift that keeps giving to us all.

Think about the adults who made an impression on you when you were young. Bet many of them didn't even know how much they meant to you then, or still mean to you. (Time for a plug here: call up an old teacher or someone else who really taught you something important; tell them that they made a difference in your life; thank them; wish them well. You may be the saving grace to them they once were to you. If they are gone now tell one of their surviving relatives.)

Become one of those people others remember fondly and are better human beings for having known a little. It just isn't difficult, and it would make a world of difference if more got into the game.

:rant:

[jtrockville]

47. Thank you. You've given me the courage to try.

I'd been avoiding even reading the story, because I'm afraid I can't bear to hear it. But sticking my head in the sand is a horrible approach.

I will read up on it, and discuss it with my 17yo son.

[tjwash]

50. Who got called first anyway? The police or the national media outlets?

A shame that what is a completely horrific, degrading, and permanently scarring experience for a family has turned into such a fucking circus.

[CrispyQ]

51. Two of my close friends have children.

The difference in their parenting is stunning. So is the difference in their children.

Kudos to you for being one of the good parents!

[Festivito]

52. I like being able to tell a parent they're doing a good job.

Good job! I don't know if you're great at it, but doing a good job is appreciated.

[lame54]

53. get somewhere out of sight and yell...

"The cops are coming"

that should break it up w/o risking your own neck

[Echo In Light]

54. Well done. Chance favors the prepared mind - we've gone over 'bad scenarios' w/our daughter

It's too irresponsible not to. She's familiar w/various types of situations where if she were to find herself being approached, or seized, to know what signs and signals to be wary of, and if necessary, to scream to get attention, fight, kick/knee in the balls, etc

[Berry Cool]

55. Good for you, for bravely tackling this subject with your kids before it's too late.

Sounds like you raised good kids, too.

Hope they never come across such a situation, but at least if they do, they'll be prepared.

If only the kids in the actual situation had been prepared that way.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

56. It is good to teach your kids these things

However, it is to be expected that in communities as dangerous as Richmond that people would not talk about these kinds of incidents. Talking to the police can lead to lethal retribution.

I remember when i was a junior high kid in Bedstuy brooklyn. I was walking home one day and these kids decided to "jump" me. There were about 8 of them. They had me on the ground, stomping my head, kicking me, it was really bad. Once they were done, they just walked away laughing. These ladies approached me as I was still on the ground bleeding. One of the ladies was going to help me, but her friend said that they should keep moving, because the perpetrators were across the street watching. That shit hurt me more than the actual attack.

I think in these kind of situations, the most you can expect from someone is for them to discretely call the police. Intervening is ideal, but one must be prepared to lose their life if they choose to take that route.

Also, size mean absolutely nothing to these young criminals. A big guy who is not affiliated with any "group" (gang, football, click, etc) will be a huge target to the gangsters. These guys roll with a crew, and are carrying weapons. Those kinds of things mitigate an individuals size advantage.

[trumad]

62. Agree---

ManoAMano--- maybe--- but Gun versus Mano--- Gun wins every time.

[SpiralHawk]

57. Now those are real Family Values

not the twisted, closeted Family Values the Republicons are forever trying to shove down peoples throats, while they themselves FAIL to live up to what they preach. Thank for posting, Trumad, and for being a good dad.

[theHandpuppet]

58. Kudos to you trumad, and your post reminds me of another issue

I was watching a report on the rape and several commentators piped in with scathing criticisms of schools and teachers, saying they weren't doing their job in teaching students right from wrong.

WRONG!!!

It's not the job of teachers to babysit your kids.

It's not the job of teachers to explain right from wrong to your kids.

It's not the job of teachers to instruct your child on "conflict resolution".

IT'S THE PARENTS' JOB TO RAISE THEIR OWN CHILDREN AND THE TEACHERS' JOB TO EDUCATE THEM.

[Enthusiast]

59. Sad commentary on what

happened to society after eight years of a criminal administration. Corruption during Bush increased exponentially. One might say it was even encouraged. General lawlessness bloomed into an out of control feature of the country. Now it appears that we live in an 'anything goes' society.

[seabeyond]

60. 'anything goes' society... you are absolutely right on your whole post. nt

[Echo In Light]

69. Agreed...although there are many more variables at work aside from an illegally installed admin

[flvegan]

65. I like your eldest son's style, Trumad.

Not to take anything away from your other son nor daughter for doing the right thing. Just for having that mindset, your 16 year old is more MAN than every single male that heard about or witnessed that event yet did nothing.

Kudos.

[proteus_lives]

67. You did the right thing.

Bad parents can cause a lot of damage.

We should always advise and encourage our young people to do the right thing. One of the reasons I am the person I am today is because my folks sat down and had the hard talks with me.

"My 16 year old who stands about 6:1---215 pounds said he would intervene and try to stop it. I told him that it was brave to do that---but the best immediate action would be to call the cops. I said a crazed mob is just that---crazed--- and who knows what they would do. He told me he would still try."

He should try, I know that's dangerous and it scares you but sometimes all it takes is one person loudly and violently interrupting to break that "group spell" that people sometimes come under. It's the right thing to do.

[seabeyond]

75. sometimes all it takes is one person ... yup. nt

[Ignis]

70. Those are good kids.

Nice to find out you did something right, eh? :hi:

[mstinamotorcity]

73. conversations with your children

Should always be direct children know when they are getting bs answers. I have five sisters and one brother. My mom was a single parent after she and my dad divorced. She gave us rules and always created scenarios where she would ask us what we would do in certain situations. Parents and other adults have to tell children to be aware of their surroundings. If you see something that doesn't feel or look right to come tell an adult that they trust. Because sometimes the person who makes them feel distrustful is in the home and may be the perpetrator. We need to tell our young ladies that drinking alcoholic beverages under age puts them at greater risk for bad things to happen. And we also need to teach our children the true meaning of friendship. Friends don't let friends do bad things. They try and keep their friends from being in trouble. You don't need to be in a gang to have a voice. if someone touches places that your underwear covers then they should alert an adult. And just because everybody is doing it doesn't necessarily make it right. We must teach them to think independently of others. and let them know that some of our most historic leaders thought differently than everyone else thats what made them stand out for excellence.hug them and let them know that any thing they need whether its a listening ear or chastisement it is your love that will always be there if they are good or bad. And to the parents of the 15 year old young lady i send my deepest and strongest faith based signal to you and your daughter. LOVE

[winyanstaz]

76. K&R....

I agree. I raised three fine sons and four wonderful step-kids...and I think the reason that none of them have ever been in trouble with the law etc..is we always talked things out.
Parents need to be parents more and money chasing less.

[Dr. Strange]

77. Call the cops...

and if they have the right kind of cell phone, maybe start taking pictures. And when the cops arrive, hand the pics over. The next best thing to DNA evidence.

[rainlillie]

78. I think it's great to talk to a 15 and 16 year old about the rape, but a 12 year old..

is too young IMO. I have an 11- year old she's well aware of child molesters and such, but I couldn't imagine talking to her about a gang rape when she turns 12. The crime was so brutal, I couldn't even finished reading the article myself.

[seabeyond]

79. i have just started talking this stuff with 12 yr old. but then he is reading times magazine

and reads tons of material in other areas, history channel. they are aware.

i dont get explicit and the kids did not read the article. i didn't want to give either of my boys that.

i started it with the kid beaten to death in chicago while mob watched and rape of this girl as mob watched.

that is as far as i went.

[CraftyGal]

80. That is the best time to talk with them....

I was sheltered my whole life and considering my birth circumstances I should have been given all this information. I wasn't given it. At 19 I went through a brutal assault one because he was an a**hole and two I was naive about date rape drugs, etc. Yes, it is a hard conversation but one that needs to be done.

On another note: My son, now 16, has always been empathetic. He may be tall but he is a skinny thing. He has often stuck his nose into situations where he could have been hurt but he felt that it was only right to intervene. He was bullied a lot because at 12 he wasn't involved in sex, he struggled with learning disability, etc. I really worry about this world that we are in today.

CraftyGal

[Still Blue in PDX]

91. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

My parents always sheltered me as well, and it is only through the grace of God/dess that I didn't get in all sorts of bad situations. You're so right that it is a hard conversation, and kudos to all the parents who have the courage to face the hard stuff and teach their kids the things they need to know. Yes, the world is a scary place and getting scarier all the time. BTW, it sounds like you are raising a wonderful young man.

[CraftyGal]

118. Thank you for your kind remarks.

I am very, very proud of my son. He is growing into a fine young man who wants to be a police officer one day.

CraftyGal

[Hello_Kitty]

123. I think it depends on the kid. A lot of kids are already aware of those things by that age.

I mean god, a typical line-up on network TV features some pretty graphic story lines (Law and Order SVU, NCIS, CSI, etc.) and this story was reported on the news.

[tblue]

81. I have a 15 yo son, and I'm gonna do the same.

Good idea & thanks! Also, it doesn't hurt for adults to be reminded they need to be ready to act, too. I honestly think all the violence in tv, movies, and video games makes us numb. That story is so revolting. I hope the girl gets all the support she needs.

[RagAss]

82. Good advice. Call the cops. I would want my sons to do the same....

Unless, of course, they happen to have a flame-thrower strapped on their back at the time !

Seriously, that is very good advice to give to a son...call the police and get out of there !

[JonQ]

83. Not an enviable conversation

but necessary, unfortunately.

[smoogatz]

84. Good on you. Some fine kids you've got there. n/t

[abbeyco]

85. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

This is the type of honest discussion every parent should be having with their kid(s); it's too bad that it takes an incident like this to start the discussion.

Sounds like you have great kids - be proud of them and I hope they each do well going forward. Cheers to you being a great parent!

[mackerel]

86. We live about 10 miles from Richmond.

You hear about so much violence at that High School, I wondered why there was no security on campus that night? I was told that there was security inside the dance but not on campus.

[varelse]

87. Rec with a thank you

the cliche "teaching moment" is hereby redeemed.

[dccrossman]

88. K&R

:kick:

[NNadir]

89. You know, you've inspired me to do the same. I'll do it this weekend.

[MadMaddie]

90. Thank you! I think you did a wonderful thing and it is so basic

talking to your children.

Your kids are very lucky!

[alp227]

92. Thank you for stopping the ignorance cloaked in "innocence"

Because you can't keep your kids sheltered from the evil, evil world forever...they've got to know what goes on in the REAL world! I mean, yes. "True crime" is REALLY true crime, not just slang invented by 48 Hours Mystery.

The ongoing effects for the victim and perpetrators are truly brutal. The victim gets many years of psychological scarring, and the perps will spend at least a decade if not 5 years locked away from society...and in those overcrowded California prisons, will repeatedly, repeatedly feel how it's like to be that girl, from whom they stole a great night out with her trusted friends. Given it'd be all man-on-man contact in prison...erhm enough said.

[earcandle]

93. I was horrified and angered.

There is no justification of the horror that poor girl has
experienced over this hate crime.  

These kids, all kids, are fed bad role models in the media as
traps, teaching how to be a bad ass too!  

We need The Fairness Doctrines back so young people get a fair
shake at what is possible and are not spoon fed fucked up
realities.  Does everyone turn off Channel 60 after midnight
on Thursday night? 

There is nothing but crime and trash glorified like some kind
of lifestyle.  I hate this shit.

We feed them this.  We have to be responsible for setting
these kids up when they are idle enough to resort to TV for a
life (no work, no care, no attention, no respect).  

I don't think the parents of these kids can be blamed,
although it is easy to do so for sometimes parallel and
apparent reasons, but there could be a chicken/egg symbiosis
such that the cycle is hard to break.  

Please when they are young, rehabilitate them.  Don't
incarcerate them.  They can heal when they are young and are
directed to a correct path with the guidance they need.  

We need to invest in the cultural and multi-cultural education
of our youth and stand for what we are supposed to stand for
so they can "believe" in it.


I rant.  Forgive me.  I just gotta.     

[ThomCat]

95. This is awesome!

Far too often, only girls are warned about rape.

Boys need to be included in the talks, and not separately from the girls. Boys need to be there with the girls discussing this so that they can see that it's a real fear and a real issue.

Rape will stop when boys and men commit themselves to not becoming rapists, and not approving of rape, and not allowing others to rape. Boys and men need to take that responsibility, and we can only do that if we talk about it.

[earcandle]

104. Wow! Thanks for saying that. It is so true.

[ThomCat]

106. Feminists have been saying this for decades, and there are men

who are feminists. I'm one. :)

This should not be such a rare message that it surprises anyone though. :(

I hope more men will agree and share the responsibility for making sure that rape is an issue that we all talk about and actively oppose. Rape prevention is not just about women taking self defense classes. It is about us making sure that the guys we know don't think they can or should ever cross a line, and know we won't just laugh about it or think it's cool if they do.

[earcandle]

114. coming out of 8 years of misogyny, this is refreshingly familiar.

[dysfunctional press]

97. serreptitiously open the phone, dial 911, and hold the phone to your side...

that is, if someone is afraid of immediate retaliation for trying to alert the cops, that is- as i heard on a news story that a couple of them might have claimed.

with most newer cell phones, they'll be able to find you thru gps.

[earcandle]

105. smart move.

[dysfunctional press]

122. plus- you'd have a good defense for yourself if you ended up at trial...

and you end up charged along with the rest of the mob(although i don't believe they've charged any onlookers in this case?)
it's almost never a good idea to try and stand up to a charged up mob in that kind of situation- but it's also not something that you can just let yourself walk away from, either. summon the authorities, and hope they find you fast.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[butterfly77]

109. K&R!!!

"I've often said that bad parents can be just as deadly as Weapons of Mass Destruction"

YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN!

I also have teenaged sons and we have had this conversation many times throughout their lives,one of them is more easily led than the other so I have constantly reminded them of situations like this or bullying,.They get it..

They just think that I don't get that they get it. I told them I will repeat many conversations I have had in previous years over and over if I think they haven't got it, depending on the situation.

[trumad]

110. "They just think that I don't get that they get it." LOL

How true is that. During my conversation with them there was some eye rolling and "no duh's" as if they did not have to be told.

But they are wrong---they have to be told and they have to understand the nuances of different situations they may encounter. Peer pressure is a powerful thing and very influential.

How do I know this---er--- I was once their age and did some pretty stupid crap because hey---everyone else did it.

My kids will make mistakes--heck they've made a few already.... but they're pretty minor compared to some of the stuff I hear out there.

As long as I can help minimize their mistakes by continuing to communicate with them no matter how many eye rolls I get... I'll do it...

[seabeyond]

113. "I know this---er--- I was once their age"... i remember my parents saying

but now that i am there, isnt that the funniest. how they really really think parents are clueless. lol. that we really dont know. i grew up in 70's in calif. we did it all. 3,4 yrs ago my oldest got so mad. said.... i will never get away with things with you, like so many of the kids get away with. i laughed... of course he will. there are things i could call him on and dont, cause kids should get away with things... but no, not much gets past us.

didnt with my parents either. i thought i was getting away with stuff, but later found out, not so much. they just didnt warrant it a recognition

[butterfly77]

115. They love to repeat my stories and tell me what the ending ..

will be but,I add a little something different everytime,and they hate that..:rofl:

[seabeyond]

112. "They just think that I don't get that they get it." this morning in car

with my almost 15 yr old. something came up and started talking about the conditioning of our youth with sexuality. they recently are showing blatant conditioning commercials with jim bean last week, all the time. told son, such conditioning... guys cant help themselves at end of commercial. not only said out loud but in print too

which took us to this rape, for two fuckin hours, and rape as entertainment for our youth

to the u.s. being #1 in sex trade. a ring busted with 10 yr old. this is BOYS and girls kidnapped of street for perversion. TEN.

and how in a mere decade our society has shifted so to perversion

he talks to me that he knows. he isnt... he doesnt....

but i say, all that shit has never been in your life. you have never had that culture continually fed to you. too many kids live that culture and conditioning.

many of our guys and men do not get it, in 2009. many men dismiss this. ignore it or justify it. and our women and girls are equally being conditioned their worth is solely for male entertainment.

if it is a continual escalation in my world, and women/girls world, it will be a continued escalation for my boys. they are gonna go down this road with me. they are going to be aware of what we are creating. we do the same with racism. we do the same with out of control religion. we do the same with politics. we do the same with our economy.

this is not just a one time conversation

[butterfly77]

116. This is another point I love to bring up..

is the fact that I talk to them and repeat things and took them to cultural and other fun events while growing up has made them more knowledgeble than many other kids.

I remind them that many kids can't talk and discuss many things with their parents as they do with me.

Over the years they have told me about many situations that have occurred with peers and friends and how they can't believe how the person reacted to a particular situation.

[seabeyond]

117. exactly and yes. nt

[Orsino]

111. Call 911 first...

...then there might be time for heroics. But make sure law enforcement is alerted first.

How would we feel if we failed at the intervention and didn't get help summoned, either?

[Forkboy]

124. It's all canceled out by teaching them to be 'Canes fans.

:hide:

[berni_mccoy]

130. You are a truly good parent trumad. K&R.