as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it...

[1]

let the chips fall where they may...

[Chemisse]

1. I like the opt out feature

It makes it more palatable. And those states thinking about opting out will most likely hear quite a clamor from their residents.

[liberalhistorian]

38. I agree that it makes it more palatable and much more likely

to pass, and that something is certainly better than nothing, especially with a ridiculous worse-than-nothing insurance mandate. And we need to remember that that is the way that Canada started out with its current system; it was province-by-province over twenty or so years, it wasn't all at once.

However, I'm sure that my state, in its ever-growing backwards "wisdom" will no doubt be one of the ones that will definitely opt out. Which will still leave hubby and I without any health coverage. We're right on the border of another western state, but I'm afraid that one will opt out as well. Both states love to scream and rant and rave about how "independent" and "self-reliant" they are and they don't need no stinkin' gubmint, etc., etc., yet they always have their hands out for gazillions in federal funding for farm and ranch subsidies, blizzard/drought disaster funds, interstate maintenance, etc., etc. And my state would have been nothing without the CCC workers during the Great Depression building the Black Hills into the major tourist destination that it is now, as well as the federal building and maintenance of its pride and joy, Mt. Rushmore. But just try telling any of them that.

[a la izquierda]

42. I'm with you, sugar...

I live in Oklahoma. There's no way OK is going to opt in, even with a Democratic governor (for now).

[pnwmom]

52. The proposed bill says that if your state wants to opt out, then it will have

to set into place another plan to cover its uninsured. I think not opting-out will turn out to be the easiest alternative.

[sandnsea]

2. Every state must implement the public option, Every State

They cannot even apply to opt out for at least a year, and then they have to prove there is equivalent coverage available.

[1]

4. there you go. fuck it. let's get this show started. screw the "let's wait until we get it all"...

let's get this going. get it moving.

stop being so positional...

[Fumesucker]

5. Really, fuck the liberals that live in red states..

[1]

7. you are right... we should sit and wring our hands... light candles... and weep...

fuck that!

let's move!

let them opt-out.

i would love to see that...

[Fumesucker]

8. If this goes down, I for one won't vote any more..

I'm just going to opt out of the democratic process if the Democrats can't be bothered about me.

[1]

13. well then, see you... the rest of us will just move the ball forward without you...

[Fumesucker]

14. There will be a lot of people with me..

Why bother fighting for a party and a philosophy that will deliberately leave me to die?

I can get that with the Republicans..

[1]

20. *hand to forehead* *oh my!* drama queen... stop...

like you are going to die. my god, enough of melodramatic posters like you.

i get it. you want it all. you want it now.

guess what?

you will never get it all. especially right now. it doesn't work that way. and if you are not grown up enough to know that, then maybe you should stop posting until you graduate from high school.

adults get what you are yet to understand.

this is a good start. once you start a government program, it never gets smaller. do you know nothing about how american government works?

[Fumesucker]

22. You made it quite clear that if you get what you want you don't give a fuck

About anyone else..

We can read.. Your OP was pellucidly clear, you get yours and you are fine with anyone else getting left out.

[1]

23. its not about me. your posts are about you... no state will "opt-out" and you know that...

again with the "over the top" posts of yours.

give it up, child. progress is made a step at a time. not in great leaps.

you will learn that someday.



oh wait! you are already old?

ha! then there is no hope for you. you will never learn.

so sorry... for you...

[Fumesucker]

25. Your personal insults are not pursuasive.

Your what's over the top, if you get yours you don't care what happens to anyone else.

Now that someone has called you on your bullshit you are trying to squirm out of it by pointing the finger at everyone else.

You say that no state will opt out with zero proof, it's quite clear that you don't live in a red state.

[1]

28. the world is moving on. you can get with, or fling your poo... your choice...

[Fumesucker]

30. LOL.. You are the one flinging insults..

Your OP made it clear, you get yours and you don't care about anyone else.

Some of us have higher morals than that.

[1]

33. you don't want to learn.... you don't want better for any of us... you just want to be "right"...

you are so sad.

i am so sorry for you...

[Fumesucker]

35. You just want better for you..

And fuck everyone else, your OP made that quite clear..

Your words verbatim: " as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it... "

Self interest really doesn't get much more blatant than that.

[1]

55. you are perfect. you are the reason we will never win anything...

you just want to be right.

doesn't matter if anything gets done, doesn't matter if the human condition ever improves, as long as you get to win the argument.

you are the reason they will win everything.

and the funny part is that you don't realize that. and you never will.


people can rail about beck and limbaugh? but its you that is our real problem.


now, come back with some ridiculous and satisfying argument for your position here. go ahead.

heh. and when you do? you won't even understand a word i have said to you.

heh...

[Fumesucker]

57. Eat your own words..

" as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it... "

Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me

[1]

59. so sad to be you... people here can help... remember, there is always help...

please. do it. just ask. its never as bad as you think...

[Fumesucker]

60. LOL... Don't like the taste, eh?

Vomit doesn't taste any better when you eat it again, most people figure that out before they're old enough to get online.

[1]

61. oh, ok. you must get the last post. ok. i'll play. tag! i have the last post!

[Fumesucker]

62. as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it...

[bobbolink]

86. You make it clear that you care nothing about others, and when it's pointed out,

you call names. You denigrate.

What an "adult" you are.

Now, go ahead and attack me.

You "adult" you.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. So YOU fail to elect progressives, and then YOU are going to pout when your state opts out?

Brilliant!

[Fumesucker]

21. And who is going to let them opt out, eh?

The Democrats are..

What's the point of voting for gutless fucking wonders?

[CTLawGuy]

24. the reason we HAVE to let them opt out

is because of Senate "Democrats" from these red states that basically force us to.

[Fumesucker]

26. If the Democratic leadership had started negotiating from a "single payer" plan..

Instead of putting single payer off the table right from the beginning we wouldn't be playing these "opt out" games right now.

When negotiating you don't immediately move half way to the other guys position before you ever start.

This entire fiasco is due to the fact that the Democratic leadership is bought and paid for by the health insurance industry.

[1]

32. what a ridiculous argument...

"When negotiating you don't immediately move half way to the other guys position before you ever start."

yeah, when i go into a salary discussion i immediately ask for $1,000,000. that's my starting point.


are you really that stupid?



no, friend, when negotiating, you start with something you might actually get. i can't get $1,000,000. america can't get single payer.

you really don't get that? really?

that would explain your totally ignorant starting position...

[Fumesucker]

36. Obviously you've never done any serious negotiation..

In fact America *already* *has* single payer for some citizens, it's called Medicare..

[1]

43. please... you are embarrassing yourself... "serious negotiating?"...

you have no idea what you are talking about...

[Fumesucker]

44. Medicare is not single payer?

Like I said, America already has single payer for some people, why is at least putting single payer on the fucking table for *everyone* not an option?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

45. Total bullshit

If we started with single payer, we wouldn't even be discussing an opt-out public option because the issue would be completely dead. If you insist on participating in a political forum, it'd help to have some knowledge of politics.

[Fumesucker]

46. America already *has* single payer for some people..

It's called "Medicare"..

If you insist on participating in a political forum, it'd help to have some knowledge of history.

Edited for speling.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

84. Yeah, because Medicare for all is really a tenable negotiating start.

Just because it's happened for one segment of the population, that doesn't mean it would happen for everyone. Nor are you acknowledging that today's Medicare did not start as Medicare. Here's a good place to start: http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/2000%20Files/Aug%2000/FTR-08-04-00MedCarHistry.htm

[CTLawGuy]

47. don't think so

These "dems" are comfortable with whatever they are comfortable with and it didn't matter where the president or the Dem leadership started. These "Dems" have all the power and they know it.

To put it another way, Would you buy an ordinary pack of gum for $20 just because the original price was $100?


Welcome to US government 101...

[Fumesucker]

49. America already *has* single payer for some people..

Medicare is its name..

Why is single payer good for some and not good for all?

[CTLawGuy]

56. Medicare is not techincally single payer

it's more like the public option.

Single payer means that the government insurance provider is the ONLY source of insurance, it is the "single" payer. True single payer does not have other sources of insurance to compete against.

Medicare is like the public option in that it is a government run and government subsidized insurance program. However it is not the only "payer" in the market.

The public option being considered by Congress is like that. It would provide insurance to a group of people, it would provide some subsidies, but it would not be the only payer in town.

Dennis Kucinich has the true single payer bill, it would allow and require everyone to be covered by Medicare and ban private insurance (if I understand correctly).

[Fumesucker]

58. Even in the UK it's possible to get private insurance..

And the UK has truly "socialized" medicine, the medical professionals in the NHS work for the government.

Kucinich's plan would not have banned private insurance but it would have been an "extra" just like in the UK.

[CTLawGuy]

85. oh I was confused

he has talked about "banning" insurance companies. thanks for the clarification :hi:

[CTyankee]

77. Waiting for a year was a brilliant move. Once the people get used to the PO, they will want

it to continue. It's opting out from the get go that would be problematical.

This thing will be just like Medicare and the right wing knows it. That's one reason Joe Scarborough was so enraged this morning. He knows he's screwed...he was even fighting with Mark Halperin fer gawd's sake. Halperin just got very dismissive of Joe. Usually I think Mark is a prick but today he did himself proud...it was a pleasure to watch Scar just come apart at the seams...

[bluestateguy]

3. It forces the right wingers--governors and legislatures-- to put up or shut up

You want out? Then do it, and stand before your constituents with your decision.

[1]

6. fuck yeah! cards on the table. this is good. do it!

[barbtries]

9. and what if your state

does opt out? are you cool with it then? most people don't actually "choose" where they live, and options for moving are limited when money is tight.

i haven't decided how i feel about it, because i can see the opt out aspect actually contributing eventually to real health care reform. when people start moving to the states that offer it, or when people begin voting rw'ers out of office because of the calamity they brought to their states.

i would much rather see socialized medicine put into place for every person. not gonna get that obviously, probably not in my lifetime. so, i'll be happy to see an inch of progress where there's only so far been regression and suffering for more and more people.

but i feel kind of sick when i think of the hapless needy people in "opt out" states.

eh. there but for fortune. sticky wicket. this country is really sick.

[Sherman A1]

11. For those of us that wanted Medicare for All

this isn't perhaps the best, but it's half a loaf and that is better than the PO not being in the mix. This isn't perfect, but frankly what is?

It's a first step towards a better system and that is better than no step towards that end.

[1]

12. but they won't. political suicide. fuck the "i want it all" crowd. you can't get that...

get what you can get and improve it as you go...

[Fumesucker]

15. We could get decent health care coverage if the Democrats had any fucking guts..

They lack intestinal fortitude, gutless fucking wonders.

[joeycola]

10. its like you got yours. screw the rest.

[1]

16. no. its not like that at all. its like the start of change. do you not get that?

[Fumesucker]

18. Your OP made it quite clear that as long as you get yours you don't care..

Doh!

[1]

27. nope. we reject your claim. you can't pull your "you are racist" equivalent shit here...

i love you framers.

this is a great step forward in healthcare.

you don't think so.

so you lay your "we go ours" bullshit line on us. weak. doesn't work. try again.

actually, it doesn't matter.

this bill will pass. the bill you want will never pass.

instead of fighting your friends, why don't you work with us?

[Fumesucker]

31. You aren't my friend if you are willing to leave me sick with no healthcare..

Friends don't tell you "If I get mine, then fuck you".

[1]

34. and you would deny all others healthcare until the law is to your liking...

who is getting "theirs?"

[Fumesucker]

37. I want health care for everyone..

You obviously want it just for you, your words made that clear.

" as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it... "

Utterly transparent blatant self interest, fuck everyone else, as long as I get mine I'm cool with it.

[spoony]

40. So long as it starts with you.

Sorry but that's the distinct impression one is left with reading your OP.

[retread]

17. Which is the bigger hit on a state's budget, opt-out or the public option? n/t

[MadHound]

29. Somehow your nickname seems apt,

Considering that all you seem to care about is number 1.

Since when did it become a Democratic value to fight for "me first" and screw the rest of us? Oh, yeah, corporate controlled, DLC, etc. etc.

If the opt out option is passed, I'm opting out of the party. Why bother staying when it is filled with selfish spineless assholes who are willing to eat whatever their corporately controlled party pukes up and call it prime rib.

[1]

39. somehow, you think that "some" getting coverage is bad....

everyone must get coverage or none should. so you say.

do you have coverage? hummm...

i'm guessing you do. i don't. so who is the hypocrite here?

that would be you...

[Fumesucker]

41. You think you not getting coverage is bad..

" as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it... "

Everyone else, not so much..

[1]

50. ok... i get you. you can't follow a discussion.. your entire argument is with the op...

ignoring the tens of statements in following posts that expand upon that original statement.

you want to base your outrage on a statement that you misunderstood. put your flag on that and nothing else.

in other words, you want to linger on your misunderstanding from forever ago?

you are a fucking idiot...



but then... you know that and you are just trying to be a fucking idiot...

[Fumesucker]

53. I'm just forcing your own stinking words back down the scrofulous gullet they came out of..

And it's blatantly obvious you don't like the way they taste..

As long as you get health care, fuck everyone else.

You wrote those greedy ass words now you have to live with them.

[Bucky]

48. Darwinian ethics, eh?

To hell with the poor in the red states. Got it.

[Justitia]

51. Here's a deal for ya...how about TX takes it's 3rd largest # of Dem votes in the House with it?

I mean, fuck us, right?

We only have more voting Democrats in the US House than 47 other states.

[Fumesucker]

54. ROFL.. Well said..

Numero uno just got pwn3d..

[DrDan]

63. this is such a "me me me" post - I would expect to read this on FR - not DU

[Sukie]

64. After reading this long debate about this OP and

whether he should eat his words or not, I will agree that his phrasing was off base and made him seem selfish, but he did counter it with the idea that because of the wording of this new bill, most states will probably not be able to opt out without drawing much criticism from their citizens. Yes, it will then be a state by state fight , but states want the ability to decide this for themselves. Once people start to see the plan working in the other states, the repub leaders who might think they want to opt out, will think again, long and hard. I also totally disagree with the fellow that said he would never vote again if this bill passes. Horrible excuse to give up.

[Fumesucker]

65. That was me that said that..

The state I live in wanted the "right" to decide whether black people should have to sit on the back of the bus, was it the correct thing to do for the federal government to interfere in that "right" with armed force?

I see this battle in much the same way, if health care is a "right" then it's a "right" for everyone and allowing states to "opt out" is every bit as heinous as allowing them to "opt out" of other civil rights.

It's frustrating almost beyond measure to listen to blue staters gloat and tell we liberals who happen to be stuck in red state hell that we should just shut up and vote for Democrats who would leave us dying out in the cold.

[Sukie]

66. I live in Virginia. Yeah, we went blue for the general

last year, but right now, it is looking like we are going to have another backward repub governor. This after having had two wonderful dem governors in a row. I don't get it, and can't even begin to understand the mentality that would do this to our state again. McDonnell will more than likely try to opt out, he is as conservative as they come. I won't blame the dems who came out with this bill though. I will blame the mindset that continues to perpetuate this problem. The dems aren't leaving us in the cold to die. They are working in a government and country that is still approximately 45 percent conservative. Even though they have the majority, many of the dems are from communities that are not completely blue. They vow to work for the people, all the people, not just those that voted for them. That is what happened with bush. He only worked for those who voted for him. The rest of us, for eight long years, endured through the feeling that we no longer had a government working for our best interests. I don't expect Obama to do that to the people who didn't vote for him. He is showing them that he is better than that. The compromise in this bill is there to give an option to those who disagree with the reform, but I will bet that it will be barely used, if at all. Once reform is implemented, people will see that they want it. But if it does happen to our state, we will continue the fight. Opting out of voting is not an option if you want something bad enough.

[Fumesucker]

70. If opting out of healthcare is an option then so is opting out of voting..

It gets to the point it's too damn painful and frustrating to deal with. I've been fighting this red state crap since the 60's and I'm just weary beyond words of battling the mentality.

If most of our legislature wasn't bought and paid for by the corporations we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[1]

67. no, that wasn't you that said that. that was me in the op. you were just too ignorant to get it...

but jump on in here and try to take all of the credit.

the ignorant and persistent seem to vie for substance cred here.

that would be you.

+1 you.

[Fumesucker]

68. I was responding to this quote:

"I also totally disagree with the fellow that said he would never vote again if this bill passes."

Your mind reading shtick is not working very well..

[1]

69. oops, i forgot your rules... tag!

[Fumesucker]

71. as long as my state doesn't "opt-out", then i am cool with it...

[1]

72. tag!

[ecstatic]

73. I'm cool with it whether my state opts out or not because

I'm looking at the big picture. If the public option is implemented well in other states, then eventually every state will have it and then single payer will be closer to reality.

[1]

75. i should have started this thread when the adults like you woke up...

big picture thinkers...

its like squeezing toothpaste out of the tube. once you start, there is no getting that paste back in the tube.

[Statistical]

74. As long as my state doesn't opt-in to legalizing slavery I am cool with it.

Kinda the same thing huh?

[1]

76. really? that's what you bring to this?

[Statistical]

78. Why is it hard to understand? Healthcare is a RIGHT!

Just like liberty.

States enforcing slavery = denial of a human right.
State denying healthcare = denial of a human right.

I see little difference. Don't worry all that denial of human rights will be happening far far away. You likely won't even be able to see the people dying from lack of care. As long as you can't see it then nothing is wrong. Kinda like living in NYC before the civil war. Slavery? What slavery?

[1]

79. so you don't actually read the threads you post to. don't try to understand the ongoing discussion..

you just post out of ignorance...

[PassingFair]

80. So we should go to WAR with the south, instead of letting them opt out?

What is your point here?

[Fumesucker]

81. I don't recall a civil war in the 1960's..

You must have been in some other country..

[PassingFair]

83. And you must be looking at some other post.

I was responding to post #78...

try reading it.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. What a short sighted, self centered, heartless post this is

Worthy of a Republican, me me me me me me me mine, me, me and so on.....