NHTSA releases new info about crash that prompted Toyota floormat recall

[divideandconquer]

NHTSA releases new info about crash that prompted Toyota floormat recall

by Jonny Lieberman (RSS feed) on Oct 26th 2009 at 3:32PM


Contrary to previous reports, the death of a four people and the largest recall in Toyota's history was caused by a compound of errors. The initial buzz/word on the virtual street suggested that it was simply an improperly placed floor mat that doomed CHP officer Mark Saylor and three family members when the Lexus ES350 they were traveling in got jammed open at over 100 MPH before crashing and bursting into flames. But it turns out it was more than just a floor mat.

First of all, the floor mat in question didn't belong to the ES350 (actually, the ES350 didn't belong to Officer Saylor -- it was a dealer loaner while his car was being worked on). The mats in the ES350 that crashed were from a RX400h. Not only that, they were those thick, all-weather hard rubber mats. Regardless, because the dealer had placed the wrong mats into the wrong car, there was no way to properly mount them. Also, it seems that the pedal design of the ES350 also played a role. The NHTSA discovered that, "Beyond the main pivot, the lever is not hinged and has no means for relieving forces caused by interferences." We think that means it can easily get stuck.

But that's not all. The NHTSA had also learned from a previous ES350 investigation the Lexus ES braking system loses power-assist when the throttle is fully opened, increasing braking distance fivefold." That's not good. And the brakes had signs of heavy wear and damage, "Rotors were discolored and heated, had very rough surfaces, had substantial deposits of brake pad material, and showed signs of bright orange oxidation on the cooling fins consistent with endured braking."
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http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/26/nhtsa-releases-new-info-about-crash-that-prompted-toyota-floorma/

Gee, it was loaner car, haven't we been told over and over by the Toyota proud, Toyotas never break. Those starter buttons are a stupid de-evolution, cars in 40's had these and they were phased out. BTW, " "previous investigation"?

[Teaser]

1. love my toyota

love it hard.

[Xithras]

2. I still don't get why he didn't put it in neutral.

I guess he just didn't think of it.

[Hoopla Phil]

3. Or turn the key off. Personal story regarding using neutral.

Why is it always right next to "D"? So that you can easily pump it into neutral to coast or restart an engine - so says all the driving safety instructors I've had. Well I had to use it for a restart once upon a time.

Was driving up to the corner store one evening on a munchies run. I just had on flip-flops and must have stepped into an ant bed walking to the car (it was dark out). As I was driving down the road ants started to sting my right foot. I jerk my foot up to slap off whatever is stinging me and my knee hits the ignition key turning off the car. Bumped the shifter up to neutral and restarted it on the fly. I was surprised that the headlights went out as the starter cranked but that was just for a moment.

[TommyO]

5. The car had a starter button that needed to be held for three seconds

to turn the engine off. Neutral was the best solution, but doesn't address the design flaws listed, and the human errors that were made.

[PJPhreak]

4. Correct me if I am wrong,

But wasn't the driver a CHP Officer? I believe so.

And he with all the driver training they give CHP's,could not stop an es350?
He would KNOW exactly how to handle this situation,It is one of the things that they are trained to deal with.
I just can't get understand this...Strikes me,there is something else to this.

I drive a truck for a living...I may not always agree or get along with a State Trooper...But Flipping a 4100 Lb. Crown Vic Thru traffic at 80 to 110 Mph is NOT an easy thing...It ain't no Rx-7!
Most State Troopers Drive VERY Well!!

[Fumesucker]

6. Quite possibly the Trooper never drove a stick..

People who have only driven automatics often don't think of neutral as a "gear", it's just something you skip over between reverse and drive.

It has been pointed out that the shifter on that model car is a dual gate unit that could possibly have been put in the "manual automatic" mode from where neutral would be hard to find in an emergency, I think this is probably not a factor since most people seldom use the manual mode.

Police cars are invariably automatics, unless maybe they've been confiscated..

[PJPhreak]

7. As a driver I will debate that,

State Troopers Very well trained...Their driving skills are one of the things that keep them alive.

They are trained on closed courses in things like Hydroplaning,Skid Recovery, Handling Issues in Snow,Ice,Rain,Pit Maneuvers (Quaterpaneling a perp...Like Dale Earnhardt did Bobby Labonte at Martinsville in '99) and a maydrid of other driving Issues.

Make no mistake,This Officer knew how to drive,Thats why this story confuses me.

[Fumesucker]

8. None of which training is in anything other than a car with an automatic..

Again, it's my considered opinion that the Trooper had not ever driven anything other than an automatic. People who can drive a stick think of neutral as an actual gear, those who drive only automatics for the most part don't.

It just wouldn't occur to a lot of people to put the tranny in neutral and the great majority of those are going to be people who have never driven a stick.

In one of the earlier articles about this incident there was a quote from someone at Toyota about how many people there were at Toyota itself that didn't know what neutral was for.

[PJPhreak]

9. Ok,I'll go with this,But

To me (And most anybody I know) neutral is just that...neutral As in no gears,Automatic,Manual,3,4,5,6 or 7 Speed,Semiauto (Old VW's) or paddle shifting....Its all the same,neutral Is still no gears.

And as I said...This is a State Trooper we are discussing,Their Driver training level is FAR superior To Most of the rest of us.

Sorry,I just have a hard time believing that someone with that many hours of training and actual experience behind the wheel of Anything would not think "Hit Neutral/Kill Iginiton/Carefully Roll to a Stop".

It just doesn't make sense.

[Fumesucker]

10. I suspect he was trying to kill the ignition..

But you had to hold it in for three seconds before the engine would die. I imagine he pushed that thing a bunch of times but just never held it in.

There seems to be some dispute as to how easy or difficult it is to shift that transmission into neutral..

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/oct/27/feds-report-faults-design-gas-pedal-fatal-crash-27/?metro&zIndex=189654

Official recall letters are scheduled to be sent out this week, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said yesterday.

Many people have asked why Saylor did not shift the car into neutral. It has not yet been reported what gear the car was in when it crashed, and whether the 20-year CHP veteran tried to change gears.

Asked if it is possible to shift a speeding Lexus with a wide-open accelerator into neutral, Lyons said: “Absolutely.”

Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety in Washington, said shifting the car into neutral at that speed would be “difficult at best.”

Ditlow said the configuration of the gear shift panel, as outlined in a 2008 highway administration report, showed that the neutral position in the gear shift pattern was not immediately obvious, which led to unsuccessful attempts to disengage the engine.

I believe this is a picture of the shifter in the 09 es350:

[PJPhreak]

11. as one can see N is directly above D...

as it has been for many years in almost every Automatic Tranny ever made....or at worst jam it into Park,The Tranny will drop thru the floor but the car will stop.

[uncle ray]

12. that's where it appears.

at first glance at least. i think it's in the gate further to the right of the D. it appears to me that the gate furthest to the left and back is for shifting up and down manually through the gears, similar to a performance ratchet shifter. in fact in performance cars where it is common to manually shift an automatic, it is common to lockout gears such as neutral and reverse to prevent accidentally choosing them while banging gears. certain racing sanctioning bodies require it.

the bottom line is: there was a tragic combination of factors that contributed to this wreck. i can't honestly say if i were in the exact same situation i would have necessarily handled it the best way. the rapid succession of failures, the throttle sticking, the brakes not working effectively, not being able to figure out the shifter or ignition, all of this in a matter of seconds while navigating traffic at a high rate would test the best of drivers. our brains simply cannot process that much in such a short time. police training focuses on certain specific emergency situations, most situations a cop might find himself in are really fairly predictable, and they train for those situations. i really doubt there is a chapter in any law enforcement training manual that details how to deal with a runaway lexus, much less actual behind the wheel training.

[krispos42]

13. Honestly, looking at that shifter, I can't quite tell where it is either

My guess is this: There is an automatic and a manual mode, selected by a button someplace, perhaps on the shifter knob or that black square above "P". When in automatic, "D" is drive and "N" is neutral. When in manual mode, "N" becomes "shift up one gear".


My 2nd guess is that if you put the shifter in "D" but on the right side of the pathway, you're in automatic. If you them move the shifter to the left, you're in manual, and bumping the stick forward (same line as "N") goes up a gear and backwards goes down a gear. In this scenario, neutral is the "N" on the right side of the pathway.

With guess #2, if the guy was trying out the manual feature (I know I did when I had to rend a Mazda last summer) he might not have been able to figure out quite where neutral was and didn't want to take his eyes from the road to figure it out.




I hate these fucking rat-maze shifters now. I don't know who's bright idea was but they should be dragged out into the street and spanked on live TV by drunken frat boys.

I used to drive a Dodge Neon with a floor-mounted automatic. All the gears were in a fucking straight line. Press the brake, press the safety button on the stick, move the car out of park, and release the button as you pulled back. The gearshift would stop at "D" automatically. No fuss, no muss. Once out of park, the shifter would move without pressing the safety button between "R", "N", and "D", but required pressing the button to put it back in park, or in the lower gears. So when you were maneuvering in a parking lot you could just slap the gearshift back and forth between forward and reverse. Didn't need to look down, just push (or pull) until it stopped.

I drive a 2005 Subaru Impreza with a stick. The automatic version has the damn rat-maze. I think as long as they keep doing this, I'll stick with a stick.

Hell, I actually like column-mounted shifters, truth be told.

[HughMoran]

14. My throttle got stuck at the dragstrip when I was going 115MPH

I turned off the key and the car slowed down - doh!