What will you do if there is no public option but a mandate to buy insurance from a private company?

[Shagbark Hickory]

We will all be dependent on a private company to be in compliance with merely existing?

Is anyone as troubled by this as I am?

Car insurance is one thing, you can use some other mode of transportation. But you can't "opt-out" of mandatory private insurance? Making some executives richer? Over my dead body.

[rudy23]

1. Revolt. n/t

[crim son]

2. Sometimes not eat, I'm guessing.

Until I find a job I haven't a hundred bucks to spare each month, period.

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. A hundred bucks a month!?

Unless you're under 25 with a zillion dollar deductible and a 10,000 benifit limit, premiums are a great deal more expensive than that.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

10. My brother has his own private insurance (unemployed) and pays ~ $30/mo

It's not the best coverage but checkups and primary care are decent (I think around 60%-80% covered). My mother pays it for him. His emergency and major health care costs do have like a $10k deductible, but since he is not employed emergency care would be basically free.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. How would his emergency care be "basically free" w/ a $10k deductible?

That's what the deductible is for - his out-of-pocket costs. He will be billed regardless of his employment status. If he doesn't pay it goes to collections.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. The way my mother explained it...

is that his W-2 basically shows zero income (which is true). I guess if one makes below a certain income, some hospitals provide free emergency care if required. As I understood it, the plan was to make his primary care affordable for him, but no-income somewhat solidifies emergency care should he need it.

Or maybe it was a $10k "limit"... I'm not sure.
My mother works in healthcare so I'm basically assuming she knows the system.

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. LOLZ. Hint: If you can't even explain it, much less remember it, then it ain't insurance and you

musn't count on it being there when it's needed.

There is no free emergency care provision for indigent persons although some states like mine have a universal public option for children for parents that make under a certain amount. Said socialized medicine program is called PeachCare.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

44. My knowlege of my brother's policy is not pertinent to what is or isn't covered by his policy

Nor is it pertinent to may or may not be provided under the provisions of indigent care.
I fully admit I know little about his benefits or what social programs he falls under.

I DO know that it's only about $30/mo and I thought that I'd post that as information for DU consumption.
I also know my mother has worked @ hospitals for over 30yrs and would likely not steer her own son in the wrong direction.

[Shagbark Hickory]

91. But it does matter!

Not to be argumentative, but if he's paying $30 a month but has a low maximum benefit or has to pay 20%+ out of pocket then he can easily, easily, easily go broke.
You may recall hearing or reading about individual plans not being worth the paper they're printed on. Unless someone has a very serious chronic illness and a Cadillac plan that has no out of pocket expenses, this tends to be the case.

[Greyhound]

53. Tour mother is simply making a monthly contribution to the parasites.

If he ever needs real care, you'll find that this "insurance" doesn't exist in any meaningful sense of the word.

[crim son]

24. I'm well aware of that.

I'm saying that even if they were a hundred bucks a month I couldn't manage it.

[Shagbark Hickory]

34. And I'm saying even if the premiums were that low and I could afford it, I still wouldn't buy it

from a private company. Just on principle alone.

[mikelgb]

3. Start an insurance company.

[harun]

40. +1

[bobbolink]

100. Riiiiight... like he really talks like that.... let alone act like that.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

4. Pay attention to how much the SUBSIDY is

and make sure it's enough so that no one is financially hurt by it.

[Shagbark Hickory]

11. Do you really think middle class people are going to qualify for a subsidy?

[sandnsea]

43. What do you define as middle class?

And yes, families up to $80,000 a year annual income qualify for subsidies with Kennedy's plan.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

47. I think a nice "middle-class" limit is in the $80-$120k range.

It all depends on amount of outstanding debt.

People in that range who are strapped with school loans, car loans, and mortgage/rent may still feel alot of financial pressure, especially raising a family.
People with no major debt (cars, house, school loans) with such an income living a "middle-class" lifestyle have shitloads of disposable income.

My wife and I, for example, pay as much combined school loans as we do for rent. It's tough.

[sandnsea]

56. Well it's not.

$80,000 individual income is the 90th percentile. Median wage is $15.57 per hour or $32,390 per year and median household income is around $50,000 annual and going down.

I am really sorry about your student loans. Have you checked into the new reductions. They cut my son's in half. Still, I'd rather be dealing with your problems than trying to figure out how to pay even a $200 insurance premium with a $2000 salary.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

59. I was generalizing household income for 2 or more people.

Meaning both partners are combined $80k-$120k (or $40k-$60k individually). Sorry for not being more clear.
WOW... I'd smack someone who thought 120k was a middle-class individual income as well. lol.

Class is a pretty subjective term. Costs vary by region and having kids in your household can be a large financial responsibility.

[sandnsea]

64. Median Household Income $50,000

Can be 1, 2 or more earners per household.

Median wages, $32,000. Two full-time earners, $64,000.

I always hear the cost argument when people try to pass off their top 10% income as "middle income". People that do that are the reason there is never any help for the bottom 50%. You get all the tax breaks, the poor get some housing, food stamps and Medicaid. True median income working people get nothing.

[wolfgangmo]

97. I own a small medical clinic that provides low cost care

My partner and I cannot get medical insurance at any price due to previous injuries. Our employees make more than we do and I haven't drawn a check in over a year so that my employees can keep paying their bills. And we get calls every day with variation of "I've lost my job/insurance/house/peace of mind ... what will we do?" I've slid our sliding scale as low as I can slide it and still stay open.

And still main street gets squeezed and people are suffering. Not sort of suffering. Not kind of suffering. I'm taking homeless and hopeless and willing to eat a bullet suffering. We just found out this morning that one of our patients attempted suicide because his insurance company cancelled coverage for his medically necessary meds.

I WILL NOT BUY MANDATED INSURANCE.

SIngle payer or bust.

As for my partner and I, we make too much on paper (despite the fact that we took home a combined total of 26,000 last year) to get a subsidy. Small business is dead in this country unless something is done and I mean soon.

Congress, do you damn jobs. Stop playing games. We converted out factories from cars to tanks in WW2 almost overnight. We went from the floor of the congress to having a working Medicare system in 11 months. Why the hell can't congress get anything passed now that helps main street rather then their bankster buddies on wall street.

[alc]

33. be very worried about the subsidies

According to the CBO analysis of Baucus (http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10642&zzz=39653)

...exchange subsidies would be automatically adjusted to avoid the estimated increase in the deficit for that year. ... estimates of the deficit impact for the proposal, the failsafe provisions would require a reduction in exchange subsidies averaging about 15 percent during the years 2015 through 2018.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like the way they are keeping it "deficit neutral" is by removing subsidies as needed. If medical costs go up more than expected, subsides will be required to go down more.

[Hello_Kitty]

41. Well of course. The subsidies will go but the mandate will stay.

Or we might get to the point where MA is now, having to exempt thousands of people from the mandate because the premiums would be too high a percentage of their income.

[bobbolink]

101. That could be but... remember this. The Insurance Companies

Don't Want Poor People.

We tend to be sicker, and they want young, healthy people.

[sandnsea]

45. I keep harping about them for a reason

If they aren't right, NO plan will work, including the public option.

The subsidies in the Baucus bill SUCK. All the way around. We've got to start paying attention to the subsidies.

[eridani]

69. Except the taxpayers that have to support useless parasitic intermediaries against their will

Besides which, the subsidies eat shit. I've used the calculator and am furious at what I'd be paying.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. I'll never vote for a Democrat again.

I'm just saying.

[jtrockville]

32. If they sell us out this badly, I'll follow suit.

[FormerDittoHead]

62. Same here, but I'll stop voting. It will only encourage them. Oh yes. No more money!

But obviously, contributions as small as mine didn't add up to enough in the "auction" that Washington may be revealed to be...

At that point, it will be OBVIOUS to me that American Democracy is a LIE, and that other countries UNDERSTAND what democracy is, and that it's NOT an auction where things go to the highest bidder.

My ancestors came here because it was a better place. Their descendants could certainly move AWAY for the same reason.

[wolfgangmo]

99. Fuck that.

Vote independent.

Screw the corporate communist parties.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. Likely nothing but whine a little if my premiums don't change.

not inspiring, but the truth.

[benld74]

8. Crap a brick AFTER I chew it up of course,,,

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I'll ride my magic dog dragon through the air to visit the Princess of Imagination.

[Posteritatis]

12. Be glad I'm not living in the US. (nt)

[damntexdem]

18. Best response so far.

But not available to all.

[Shagbark Hickory]

38. Why not?

It's not a bad idea.
The USA isn't too big to fail in my book.
If this country does not offer the opportunity and benefits that were advertised then I plan to switch to a new country. I'm not going to continue to give away a third of my earnings to support an endless war and wall street executive bonuses while 122 fellow citizens die each day because they don't have insurance.

[laughingliberal]

52. Would be my choice. Unfortunately, not open to me at my age. nt

[OregonBlue]

14. Refuse to pay and take it to court.

[ipaint]

15. Never make more than the medicaid eligibility cut off.

Live simply. Do what I can to stay healthy.

Once the ins. companies begin the final culling, after "reform" passes and before it kicks in, there will be many more like me. I have a feeling the estimate of 20 million folks to be enrolled in medicaid will increase substantially.

[damntexdem]

16. Desert the Democratic Party.

As to insurance, I will continue to be insured under and employer plan. But I will support political attacks on any and all pols, GOP or Dem, who supported such a sell-out of the American people to corporate interests.

[HughMoran]

27. Deserting the Democratic Party will really help

Perhaps we can have people dying in the streets instead - which is the Republican alternative.

[MadHound]

86. You'll have people dying in the streets if we receive a mandate without a strong public option

People are already stressed enough with their own personal budgets, if you force them to buy into private insurance, some will start giving up food or other necessities in order to comply. Either that, or you take away money that they were counting on in the form of fines at the end of the year. Either way, people will suffer, badly.

[eridani]

70. Why not primary challenges against Dems so we can get better ones?

The Repukes are just going to kill sick people outright.

[villager]

17. time for us all to "go rogue," yes?

n/t

[daleanime]

19. I will go to jail..

nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

42. Look at the bright side, upon booking, you will get a complimentary exam then....

you will receive free quality healthcare for every need.

[daleanime]

76. Already have it..

I'm a vet, it's the rest of you I'm worried about.

[Shagbark Hickory]

89. Or so you *think*.

Unless you're part of a big group plan that is more valuable than the claims that are being filed, your health denial company can drop you whenever they please.

[daleanime]

95. Uh, no...

I'm a Vet. I have a nice view of socialized medical care, would like to see everyone get itO8)

[bertman]

21. I'll put all of the money that I have been sending to Democratic candidates in the bank

so I can afford to buy medical insurance.

And I'll tell the Democratic organizations exactly why they are getting no more money from me. Not that it will bother them since they'll be getting a lot more from the profiteering insurance companies.

Seems to me they don't give a damn how I feel about it anyway, so why should I keep fantasizing that my $$$ are influencing their decisions.

Yaaayyyyy democracy!!!

[27inCali]

22. move to Vancouver

[Delphinus]

78. A good idea ... but

I looked into doing it legally and found I'm not quite rich enough for them.

[inna]

23. I'm just mortified by what monstrosity of a reform they are passing in our name.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6859323

[HughMoran]

25. There will be a public option, but you will still have to buy insurance

I can't imagine not having insurance, so we're stuck either way.

[Shagbark Hickory]

35. I fully support a mandate so long as there is a public option. I don't trust the privately run

death panels.

[HughMoran]

37. Well said. Private insurance companies have been proven to have death panels

How ironic that the Republican insurance ass-sniffers don't mention that little fact. :eyes:

[eridani]

72. A public option is worthless if only available to 10%

Not to mention, it doesn't kick in until 2013.

[closeupready]

26. Leave DU and the Democratic Party.

Go back to reading my books and watching escapist films.

[rucky]

30. DU would be right there with you.

I think.

[closeupready]

50. I would presume a fair number, yes.

n/t

[ipaint]

49. Me too.

Better for my health. Life may be unexpectedly short, I might as well enjoy it. Back to reading and painting for me.
George Carlin was right.

[haroldweeks]

28. Write My Senator

A letter from everyone in advance (like right now) is a good idea.

[rucky]

29. What would be the equivelent of burning a draft card?

[taught_me_patience]

36. Honestly... probably nothing

I'm covered under my employer based health care, so it wouldn't affect me much. After watching my sister battle cancer for over eight months, and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, I'll never be without insurance for a single day for the rest of my life

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. Pardon me, while those of us that don't have employer heath benefits politely and quietly die.

I know it's not your fault but if you were to lose your job and you coverage you'll be in the same boat as I.

[dysfunctional press]

46. i've got medicare. BUT- i'll certainly NOT vote for another democrat for a LONG time.

along with not donating any time and money to any of them, either.

[Uben]

48. I'm going postal!

I'll be mailing all my representatives and letting them know what i think of their plan, and they are not going to like what I have to say!

Let's get this HCR done and move on to SSI reform. It has to be done too, and no one seems to want to touch it. Well, it's gotta be done and I don't see republicans having the ability to do it, so.......

[bunkerbuster1]

51. Don't fret--I'm SURE if states can opt in, our GA public officials will do the right thing!

heh. Sorry, figured you could use a laugh.

[TicketyBoo]

54. I can't imagine not having health insurance.

The doctors and hospitals bill you three times what someone with health insurance pays, since insurance companies have made deals with providers for discounted fees.

[wroberts189]

55. I nor my wife will vote anymore. The planet is doomed anyway.

And I buy private insurance which never wants to pay for anything.

If the Dems. want so much to be in the minority again and this country is not brave enough to fix simple problems by allowing medicare for all ...and dead set to railroad us all off a cliff so a few billionaires can live the high life. We are not playing anymore.

If they do not do what they say they will do when we elect them what is the god damn point?

We are taking the ball and going home. We are no longer going to play a game with cheaters ...aka fake Dems.. and do nothing but screw things up pubs.

And when the pubs are back in power and finish the job of destroying us economically and every other way ... maybe then the people will wake up and smell the crap and DO SOMETHING.

We have done enough to try and save a stupid country from it's well deserved fate. Other countries laugh at our stupidity.

Forgive me for my negativity, but all I read is about how the few at the top are screwing us all.

[justabob]

57. wait for the constitutional challenges nt

[guitar man]

58. Depends on what it costs

If it's affordable and offers decent coverage, I'll probably buy it. If it's priced out of reach and offers shit coverage I won't. I won't like it one bit that there was no PO, hell, I hate it that we're not getting single payer, but, first and foremost I have a family to take care of and that's where my first responsibility lies. I'm used to shit sandwiches, been eating them all my life :(

[eridani]

73. The Kaiser Family Foundation calculatior demonstrates that it's overpriced shit coverage

http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx#

At least for me. I get the age discrimination with a doubled premium.

[guitar man]

79. It came out pretty good for me

As long as I selected that employer coverage was not available. As it stands, I'm on employer coverage but the premiums are killing me :(

[eridani]

83. Must be nice to be under 55 and not subject to being whacked twice as much n/t

[guitar man]

92. they need to change that

Just because people are older doesn't mean they should get punished for it. The thing I'm congerned with is every time i told it I had insurance available through my employer, it wouldn't even give me any results. What am I supposed to do, quit my job and go to work at a pig farm or something just do I can get insurance I can afford?

[SoCalDem]

60. This will end up at SCOTUS' doorstep if it happens

a mandate for people to self-insure will surely be challenged. Who knows how that crowd will will rule.

This will be very messy for at least a few years after anything is "decided" upon as a "plan".

They should have gone with the easy plan.. just phase in Medicare for everyone, and only allow insurance companies to sell gap policies.

Medicare now is funded with 1.45% from the employer and 1.45% by the employee (2.9%, if self-employed).

Surely if it were funded at 5% by employer and 5% by employee is would go a long way toward solvency, especially since everyone could then drop those super-expensive plans we are all forced into these days..

and we would KNOW what was covered, and there would be ONE claim form/policy/payment-plan.

[yurbud]

61. if there is a mandate to buy with no public option then insurance company premiums and overhead....

must be strictly regulated, and executive compensation.

Republicans said in the 90's we have a right demand something in return for those on welfare, and a mandate to buy their product is corporate welfare in the extreme.

[mzmolly]

63. I'll be livid.

But I don't think this will happen under any circumstances.

[Echo In Light]

65. Given the nature of this diseased empire, won't be surprised in the least

[quiller4]

66. The same thing I'm doing now-buy and individual private policy.

Both husband and I are retired and a few years too young for Medicare.

[lonestarnot]

71. And what will you do when you get sick and find that you've paid in all that money for nothing?

[quiller4]

82. Actually my private insurance pays $5,000-$15,000 in claims

on my policy every year after we've paid $7500 in premiums and $3,500 in deductibles. I have an auto-immune disorder and have to pay high premiums and high deductibles as a result.

[Shagbark Hickory]

90. Is it part of an employer group plan?

The reason I ask is if the group policy is more valuable to them then the claims, they'll drop you when you start to eat into their profits too much.

[quiller4]

102. We are not part of a group. We buy an individual plan. Our

provider is non-profit. We live in a state that regulates insurance more tightly than most. Quite a few insurance providers do not (cannot) write policies in the state because they will not conform to state regulations. It means we have better quality insurance without some of the horror stories we hear about all too often but we do pay a price because our premiums are higher than national averages.

[Mr. Sparkle]

67. After the public option passe's(hopefully), then the fight begins for single payer. n/t

[Kansas Wyatt]

68. Look at Democrats like they are NO DIFFERENT than Republicans...

Which means they are both against me. Hell, I'm almost there just watching them compromise their mandate down to what the Republicans would want anyway.

File for disability and get Medicare... There, I'll be covered, so fuck off Democrats & Republicans, Incorporated!

[eridani]

74. Repubs will kill you outright. Dems just leave you to die n/t

[Fading Captain]

75. LOL I cant believe some party liners actually support this corporate clusterfuck

Corporations are the enemy.
Not Republicans. Not Democrats. CORPORATIONS.

[TorchTheWitch]

84. I can't believe it either

If the Republicans were doing this every single person here would be frothing at the mouth screaming till their eyes bleed how terrible it is. But since it's Dems doing it there's plenty of people here actually defending this complete evil corporate welfare SHIT.

[Gravel Democrat]

85. Exactly

Imagine if Bush and the (R)s ran on "Health Care Reform".

Then secret meetings were held with members of Big Pharma®
actually writing much if not most of the legislation

Then it morphed into "Health Insurance Reform"

Then Mandates which Dumbya campaigned against were implemented
(and the Insiders knew all along little Dumbya was lying...er...campaigning)


Then those that read the fine print find out that these Mandates are going to be
enforced by the IRS. And the Head of the IRS was a tax cheat.

The Speaker of the House (Hastert for example) is asked *by an obscure news org*
because, you see, they are the only ones trying, "Where do you get the Authority to
mandate, for the first time ever a purchase from a private company?"

And the answer comes back from upon high:
"Are you serious? Are you serious"

Then Hastert waddles off to the waiting Limo for an expensive fund raising event...

Yup, I'm fully convinced that everyone here now supporting this mandate crap
would support exactly the same thing proposed by the Other Side. (/sarc-sadly need to add this)

Division Works.

[RedCappedBandit]

77. I'll try to leave.

Probably will anyway.

I am sick of this place.

[Le Taz Hot]

80. Well, with both of us unemployed and only

one collecting unemployment insurance, and with only $400.00 a month left over after I make my house payment, I really don't know.

[bvar22]

81. What will you do if:

*The "Public Option" costs as much or more than the Low Budget Econo Plans offered by the For Profits on "The Exchange".

*The CBO projects only a 10% "Cost Saving" for the Public Option, but provider participation (doctors) is OPTIONAL. What will you do if the nearest provider is 100 miles away? The CBO projects (and Obama agrees) that LESS than 10 million will be enrolled after 10 years. That is really NOT enough to pay for the extra paperwork to cover the Public Option for most providers.

[MadHound]

87. Never, ever support the Democratic party again

If they can't achieve true progress in the area of health care reform, when they have this sort of majority, then all it proves is that they are truly nothing more than corporate whores, just like the 'Pugs, and it is time or real change in this country.

[Kablooie]

88. I'll probably buy private insurance, unfortunately.

[Nikki Stone1]

93. My fear exactly,

.

[madmom]

94. Continue not going to the doctors? I have insurance paid for through hubby's pension, but I

still can't afford office co-pay or prescription co-pay so nothing will change for me.

[tranche]

96. I'd shut up and take it. Probably find something to eat. Like most Americans.

It's easy being a leader in this country.

[bobbolink]

98. Dig out the pitchforks and torches.

Of course, one person alone doing that would just be ridiculous.

Anyone else?