if you want to feel discouraged and sad watch the TV reality show

[ensho]

The Principal's Office (public highschool)


I've watched a number of the 1/2 hr. shows and come away shaking my head in dismay.

most of the principals are pathetic.

one male principal used a paddle on disruptive students. oh, he gave the student a choice of 3 whacks with a paddle vs. half a day of Sat. school. the kid, male or female goes into his closed door office, bends over a chair and gets the whacks. ???

most of the punishments given were mild and most of the kids ridiculed the principals after leaving their office.

one girl refused to take gym class outside because it would ruin her hairdo and because the class was for 50 min. which she thought was way too long. the male principal let her not take the class for that day which pleased her to no end.

another girl couldn't make it to 1st class on time because as she said 'she had to shower, do her hair and makeup and eat, for goodness sake and she didn't know why school didn't start at a later time'. the male principal told her he had spent a lot of time waiting for women to get ready to go somewhere, chuckle, chuckle. told her she had to try harder to get to school.

one girl was texting in class, a no no, to another girl in another class. they had their phones taken away. the one girl said she was texting because the class was boring. it was about algae which didn't do anything but sit there. the male principal who had also taught biology just stared at her. the other girl's mother had to come to school over the texting. and she was angry to have to come to school over silly texting and told the principal not to do it again. the phone was given back to the mother.

the boys in trouble could have cared less and just put forth a bored face to it all. they only got riled if the principal threatened to call the parents.

but the inept principals was too much to bear.

I realize we are just seeing the kids in trouble and there are many good students and principals but it still was dismaying.

has anybody else seen these shows?

I've put this in GD because of the large amount of kids not graduating H.S. and the recent W.H. talk on good teachers.

[Kievan Rus]

1. I haven't, but it reminds me that K-12 schools are a joke

[MadHound]

2. Oh great, now we're going to bash public education over what was depicted on a GD "reality" show

Get a clue, reality shows are about as far from reality as you can get. Nothing in such a show can provide a solid basis for an intelligent indictment of anything except the viewer's gullibility and stupidity.

[ensho]

3. have you seen the shows? if not, how can you complain?

over something you haven't seen?

[MadHound]

9. No, I haven't seen this particular show,

However I know, in intimate detail how these things are put together, how they work, how much fiction is behind the reality. I've got a couple of friends who have worked on these shows for years and years and have told me far too much about how fake these shows are, how they manipulate the people, how they set up the scripts, basically how they create pure fiction and call it real. And then they laugh at how the gullible rubes around the country eat it up and think that it is real.

Get a clue, reality shows are even less real than professional wrestling. If you think that they are real, that the events depicted are real, then you're simply another gullible fool.

[sarge43]

8. Even if it did have anything to do with reality, no 'entertainment'

in showing principals helping kids and they do, with teachers going the extra mile and they do.

These 'reality' shows are worse than junk food.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Well, the one who whined about school starting too early is SOL. Get up earlier if your

hair takes so long. And the other one who was texting in class, maybe the mother didn't have to come in. But if it happened more than once and calls to the parents weren't effecting any changes then yes I would have the parents come in. The kids are there to learn. Sorry if the subject isn't their favorite.

Yeah, some of the principals are depressing for sure, but dang if those kids aren't depressing me just as much. :( But this is what happens when education is made available to everyone. You get a lot of kids who just don't give a damn. Not that I am arguing for changing that part of the system but it is the truth of the matter.

I am so not watching this show. Ever.

[ensho]

15. you should at least watch it once just so you know

nt

[msongs]

5. kids who dont want to be in high school should be dropped. why ruin it for everyone else? nt

[blonndee]

6. That is exactly how the spineless principals behaved at the HS where I taught for two years.

NO consequences for student misbehavior. The principals were more concerned with "not making waves" and kissing the asses of the parents who, for the most part, let their kids do whatever they wished and were outraged that a teacher would dare correct or admonish their dear little angels. Teachers had no power, were constantly undermined by the principals yet still held accountable for "performance" (i.e., test scores). I know not all HS's are like that, but that's a primary reason I quit after only two years and went back to teaching college. If I'm going to be responsible as a professional, I want the academic freedom and respect AS A PROFESSIONAL to accomplish those goals and meet those responsibilities.

[madfloridian]

7. And so it continues..the war on public education.

It began under Reagan

It continues under Arne Duncan and Obama.

The power of propaganda is working well at DU.

[ensho]

16. I'm not at war with public schools, I'm pro public schools

nt

[madfloridian]

17. And you think a reality show is a good example?

[vadawg]

20. probuably no different from what parents and pupils and teachers see every day across the country

you as a teacher should know that there is a hell of a lot of bad schools out there....

[madfloridian]

22. So they take more money away to rescue Catholic schools...

and the attacks continue about how bad public education is.

I as a retired teacher saw and worked with many of the greatest people anywhere....public school teachers.

Arne Duncan with Obama's blessing is union busting and hurting education.

But DU will continue talking down public education until it is gone.

[vadawg]

28. people are going to give their opinion regardless of what attacks you give them

im more concerned with the kids getting an education i dont care if its in a public school or not, for you it seems to be the public school is more important even if its failing to educate the kids.. i say if parents want to use vouchers or the funds that would be spent on a public school to put their kids in a private school then they should be allowed to, you believe that public schools are the be all and end all, a lot of parents with kids in public school would disagree...

[madfloridian]

33. Public schools are almost over.

You won't have them to gripe about anymore.

[vadawg]

35. not griping about them all, just the ones that suck, same as you gripe about the others that suck

whatever happens you got to give parents the ability to get their kids out of failing schools, the kids are more important than any school.

[vadawg]

39. if the catholic schools are giving a better education and are working for the kids then why not

seems to be to me the most important thing is using the limited funds where they can be used best, if that means giving all parents the options to place their kids on schools were they feel they will succeed then im all for it...

[madfloridian]

40. You seem to think freely with my tax money.

[vadawg]

45. same could be said for you, you seem to think its okay to waste mine

what do you suggest the compromise is. for me its about the education, thats the beginning and the end everything else is secondary...

[madfloridian]

46. We had good public education until they defunded it. And badmouthed it.

And that is the shame of it. It was done deliberately and with a goal in mind of turning them over to the corporate world.

And now it is out of control....they are giving taxpayer money away like candy to whatever group calls themselves a school.

[madfloridian]

50. That is weird thinking. Public is public....should not support religious schools.

[hfojvt]

42. I don't think that is true at all

Of course, I am neither a teacher nor a parent, but I don't think there are nearly as many bad schools or bad teachers as there are bad students and dysfunctional families. Further, the news is not as bad as some dysfunctional media types like to claim
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh101609.shtml

"As we’ve noted, blacks kids and Hispanic kids scored better in math this year than their peers in 2003. But darn it! White kids keep scoring better too, thus keeping those achievement gaps in place. (The gaps were reduced in eighth grade during that period. The black-white gap was reduced by four points.) It’s typical of upscale education reporting to say that the gaps remain daunting (which is certainly true), without saying that all three major groups—including black kids and Hispanic kids—are scoring substantially better over the time span at issue."

[ensho]

21. it is an example and should be paid attention to

it does show a piece of US life and is real

regardless of what the anti reality show people say.

there are many silly reality shows but there are MORE reality shows that give a real view of real americans.

[madfloridian]

23. Kind of like Wife Swap?

[ensho]

24. the families on Wife Swap are real american families

they didn't come from mars or some place else.

yes, there is much to learn about the US from watching.

[madfloridian]

27. Hand-picked for ratings.

Just like the principals.

An everyday ordinary family would be boring as hell.

[ensho]

30. even if hand picked they are still real american families living in

real american neighborhoods with real friends and neighbors

[MadHound]

41. Yeah, and Tom Hanks is a real American also,

Living in a real American neighborhood with real friends and neighbors. But, he goes to work at a place that creates fictional shows, just like these people who participate in so called "reality" shows.

Just because they are real Americans doesn't mean that they don't work in a business that creates fictional programming.

[MadHound]

31. Oh geez, you are far, far gone arent' you.

Here, read this, educate yourself.

"At least based on the experience of tonight's featured wives - Christy Oeth, a working mother from suburban Philadelphia, and Nancy Cedarquist, who is home-schooling her six children in northern Vermont - making a "swap" ready for prime time can entail withholding facts from the viewer that might muddle the central premise; supplying participants with material to read aloud; rehearsing pivotal confrontations off-screen; and, in some cases, re-enacting events the cameras missed."

<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/16/arts/television/16swap.html?ex=1268629200&en=21c298e8e58fc075&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland>

Get that? Material read aloud beforehand, rehearsals, re-enactments. Are you finally getting a clue?
There is nothing real about a "reality" show, it is all drawn up beforehand like any other fictional show.

[madfloridian]

34. Interesting article indeed. Thanks for sharing

[MadHound]

37. No problem,

It infuriates me that somebody is bashing public education based on a "reality" show. I thought that it was common knowledge that these things are nothing but fiction.

[MadHound]

26. No, it isn't real, get that through your head

There is nothing "real" about any reality show. It is staged, scripted and set up to get the most audience viewers. It is set up to suck in people like you who endlessly natter on about it, thinking that it is real in order to get the buzz out there about the latest, hottest new reality show. Congratulations, you have just been duped by Hollywood.

Then again, if the public education system is turning out so many people who believe in the "truth" of reality shows, perhaps we do have a problem in our education system:eyes:

[ensho]

29. its your head (mind) that has closed doors, not mine

nt

[MadHound]

36. Closed doors?

Excuse me, but you are the one who is insisting that these shows are somehow real, and yet up and down this thread it has been shown that there is nothing real about them at all. Check out that article from the NY Times down thread, the one about rehearsals, read alouds and re-enactments? Still believe that this is all real?

"Not by accident, the scribes say, the reality stories have a beginning and middle and end, shaped by writers who are called not writers but "story editors" or "segment producers," who use the expression "frankenbites" (after Dr. Frankenstein's monster) to describe the art of switching around contestant sound bites recorded at different times and patched together to create what appears to be a seamless narrative."

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53032-2004Aug9.html>

Are you getting the picture? Do you understand now? Bashing public education on the basis of a reality show is stupid. It is like bashing Obama based on some shit I get in my email.

I suppose that you think that professional wrestling is real too:eyes:

[madfloridian]

10. AND as they take money from public schools to rescue religious schools

from their financial troubles...the battle will continue.

Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.

They will get taxpayer money that should be going to public education.

As the resources disappear the attacks on public schools get worse.

[snagglepuss]

12. +1

[madfloridian]

11. "the recent W.H. talk on good teachers."

According to the WH there are no good public school teachers...only good charter school teachers.

[Odin2005]

13. Sounds a lot like my high school.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. For what it's worth, I've heard several teachers with a negative view of head-teachers in general.

I should stress that this is only anecdotal evidence - I don't have a statistically significant samply group - but I've known several schoolteachers (here in the UK) who have a generally negative perception of headteachers as a group.

Broadly speaking, the perception seems to be that those who can't teach, manage schools instead.

[madfloridian]

18. Yes, many principals are indeed promoted upward...

when they fail at other things.

Yet they are the ones who evaluate teachers.

Just think about the irony of that.

[ensho]

19. that my be true but not 100 percent. I had a grade school principal

that was super. Mrs. Reidy. I'll never forget her.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. That you, as a student, interacted with her, may be significant.

One of the complaints I've heard is "they don't have enough classroom experience" or variations thereon.

[ensho]

32. she was great. she also taught us music and folk dancing

really taught music we learned to read music and to sing in parts, alto, soprano, etc.

and to be able to listen to music and tell what instruments were used.

this was grade school.

and she was tough on any kid breaking rules. no nonsense.

we even learned to wipe our feet on entering the school and taking off boots at the door. when I went to Junior High I kept looking for the door mats which were non existent. :)

[customerserviceguy]

38. So-called "Reality Television" = human cockfighting

What drivel they put on these shows is as representative of everyday life as a Mardi Gras parade is of ordinary life in New Orleans.

Yes, a Mardi Gras parade is real life, and happens with real people, too.

[MadMaddie]

43. I think it all goes back to the parents

kids face no discipline or rules at home so they think it should be the same way in school.

[Sinti]

44. Reality TV is not reality - though it may try to reflect it enough to suspend disbelief

The power of propaganda - as madfloridian says.

Reality TV distorts people's view of people worse than regular TV could have ever hoped to. I can't bring myself to watch it, but from what I've seen it takes the worst it can find in and of people, puts it on display as if it's true for everyone, and then people seem to follow it like it's the new norm. It's a weird fad creating weirdness in your society.

Public school, OTOH, really needs to rethink itself. There are are too many people working in it, especially admin, who don't like children, or their jobs - 16-year-olds are still children. Pay raises for teachers (with merit-based bonuses), continuing real education, and professional organizations would help a lot, IMO. Teachers often have to buy supplies out of their own pockets. At the rate they're paid there is really no room to talk about anything else before addressing the huge elephant in the room making a stink.

[Hannah Bell]

47. principals are allowed to "paddle" kids? in which state? not in mine.

[LWolf]

48. I don't have any desire to be sad or discouraged,

and I'm not going to waste my time on reality tv.

Or give any credence to any "reality" tv show.

The large number of kids not graduating...some of that number reflect the same kids who didn't graduate in any generation. Some reflect the consequences of the "standards and accountability" movement embraced by GWB, Arnie Duncan, and Barack Obama. As Texas showed us first, authoritarian demands for higher performance lead to more drop outs. Which I've always believed was part of the point: to provide a larger pool of cheap labor and cannon fodder.

The recent W.H. talk on "good teachers" goes into my garbage heap. The Secretary of Education is a union-buster. He's also not a teacher. Having never done the job, he's not qualified, in this teacher's opinion, to judge "good teaching."

[madfloridian]

49. Yes, he is a "union-buster." He is confronting unions already.

Arne attacking state laws on teachers...demanding they change to suit him.

He wants them to use merit pay or else. Tying it to students' score. As if teachers can control the academic capability of children.

[LWolf]

51. I never thought I'd live

to see a Democratic administration set themselves against teachers and public education.

:(

[liberal_at_heart]

52. Our school district is finally getting tough on parents

For far too long parents around here pull their kids out for vacation and let their kids stay home from school to finish a project due the next day. The school district is now saying that if your kid misses too many days they will be held back. They have stated that for legitimate illnesses there will be hearings. Documented illnesses like the swine flu and another illnesses that can be proven with a doctor's note will be excused, but gone are the days when kids can just miss school whenever they feel like it. I say it's about time. I have always been tough on my kids when it comes to absenses. They have to have either a fever or be vomiting to miss school in my household.