How will America be able to afford Christmas? (if anything)

[lib2DaBone]

Not an anti-Christmas OP.

Just happened to go to Home Depot Today.. all Christmas junk is on shelves and ready to go.. even before Halloween. Ditto for Wal-Mart.

There are no jobs. The banks took the tarp funds and horded them.. they are not lending.

Washington is more interested in starting wars than putting America to work.

How can anyone buy anything for Christmas.. when they can't afford daily food?

Maybe there is a dis-connect in Washington. Like when George Bush Senior went to the grocery store and he was AMAZED at scanners. "You mean.. this is how middle-class people buy groceries?"

Our elected 'leaders' in Washington are SO FAR removed from reality.. I don't think they have a clue as to what is going on in their district.

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. You're aware that unemployment is not 100%, right?

How can anyone buy anything for Christmas.. when they can't afford daily food?

With a comment like that, I have my doubts.

[vadawg]

67. +1000

[earth mom]

94. Unemployment is close to 20% and there are 6 people for every job. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

111. You're right. I am wrong. Everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

I apologize yet again to you for not having the appropriate perspective of doom. I shall endeavor to feel as bad as possible about the future of this country from now on.

OK, fine. Unemployment is 20%. That means that EIGHTY PERCENT are still working, right?

Oops, sorry. I let that slip.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. You are aware that we are actually starting to see good sighs

San Diego County had an actual POSITIVE job growth (not seasonal) last week... first in 18 months.

Perhaps you don't realize this, but the recovery, slow and spotty, has actually started.

Oh and unemployment IS NOT 100%... even during the GREAT DEPRESSION, when unemployment was actually HIGHER, people still spent during the Christmas season.

Now I wrote quite a few doom and gloom posts on the way down... but I know how the process works and we are NOT in a depression, as much as some folks want one on ideological grounds. Is this the worst economy in a few generations? Yes... is this a depression? NO.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. You've got my respect for at least saying so, Nadin.

Why is it that so many DU'rs seem to think the end is nigh because unemployment is at 10%? Even if they insist on a higher figure of 20%, that means 80% are still working, earning money and paying taxes.

I do a part-time, quasi volunteer job at a local park (meaning I am paid minimum wage) where I drive a 1/8 scale train around a 1 and a half mile track. We have it lit for Halloween and will have it lit for Xmas too. Tonight we had over 400 people, moms, dads and kids show up between 7 and 9 o-clock to ride. $5.00 a pop. Saturday night we'll probably have over 500 and next weekend I predict we'll do 600 to 700 Friday Saturday and Sunday.

I realize this is tiny and insignificant, but the fact is, people still have money to spend on things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. That sounds like a fun ride

and hell, even in the summer when we took the nephews to Legoland (don't ask, there goes my discretionary spending for a few months) the place was packed.

And two areas that are rather touristy were FULL on a FRIDAY before the 12th.

We are starting to see signs of recovery.

I am also keeping my ears open to hubby telling me that they are starting to handle more mail... that will be a definite sign that the recovery is more than just spotty.

I will make a prediction. They will handle more mail than last year. Not booming times levels, but enough to show the recovery has started. We may even see some overtime.

[liberal_at_heart]

17. my husband's company is giving raises this year

Last year they froze bonuses and raises. This year they are bringing them back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. And those are the kinds of signals we all need to keep

our eye open for.

:-)

[FreakinDJ]

60. Kinda affraid to say it - but this has been my BEST year ever

I know I feel horrible for all the folks I've seen laid off (1300 workers) but I've already topped 100K in wages for the year and MORE projects are starting

[dysfunctional press]

76. but that isn't the norm.

i know a lot more people who have lost jobs than have gotten jobs over the past year or so.
in fact- i can't think of anyone i know that's gotten a job at all in that time.

[sandnsea]

14. Thank you for doing that job

I absolutely love little kids, but I don't even know what kind of patience it takes to run that kind of ride. And so many of the ride operators, especially the little trains, are always so nice. It's such a treat and worth way more to the kids than you're getting paid.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. They're a lot of fun.

A short segment of the track goes through a tunnel;



I'll enter the tunnel with the headlights off and as I do, a motion sensor sets off some small strobe lights. I set the speed real slow and when I'm about 2/3rds of the way through, I stand up real fast and run back toward the end of the train, waving my arms and screaming! Then I turn at the end and run back to the front yelling "THE TRAIN HAS NO DRIVER! IT'S A GHOST TRAIN! AAAHHHHH!!"

Makes the kids laugh and the parents seem to get a kick out of it.

Most of the kids are really cute and excited to go for a ride on the "choo choo".

[sandnsea]

25. bwahahaha, that is too funny

Glad there are people like you to bring that kind of fun to entertaining kids. It's a really special gift.

[A HERETIC I AM]

28. Awww....now you're making me blush!

:blush:

Thanks for the compliment.

[AllentownJake]

30. The problem is there are a significant number of DUers unemployed

and they have been looking for work for a significant amount of time.

When you spend each day looking to see if you are qualified for a job in your area and you can't find anything you become very frustrated.

There is also a significant other group of DUers who are underemployed.

It really is hard to see signs of a recovery, when everyday you look in the help wanted section and it looks like the day before and you know you are on a ticking clock where your unemployment benefits will expire.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. For better or worse, DU is not an accurate representation of the electorate..

for any number of reasons. Primarily (in my opinion, anyway) because the regular posters are made up of people who enjoy posting on message boards and have the time and inclination to post here. I know many, many other Dems and progressives who have never heard of DU and use the internet for Email, research of a personal nature and little else.

The membership of Democratic Underground and their respective employment situations are not an accurate portrayal of the state of the American workforce and the condition of Americans at large.

If one was to assume it was an accurate portrayal or even a statistically accurate sampling, by reading this website regularly one could surmise that hardly anyone makes more than $30,000 a year in this country, every single Democrat hates anyone making more than them, all published government statistics are outright and deliberate lies, the entire financial industry is out to personally fuck them over, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is there are a significant number of DUers unemployed and they have been looking for work for a significant amount of time.

Yes, that's a problem. But it isn't an insurmountable one nor is it one that is going to exist forever. Don't underestimate your fellow posters and don't underestimate the American people. As I've said before, nations and peoples have done so in the past at their own peril.

[AllentownJake]

45. I don't underestimate the American People

I underestimate the current American political scene. I worked in Financial Services, they are out to make money. They aren't out to help you like any other business. They provide a service, some better than others. The industry by its nature is based on taking risks with other people's money so the perception they are out to fuck people exists because some of the risks they take, don't pay off.

Is the hole we are in insurmountable, no. Are we doing addressing the problems at this current moment in history to address the hole we are in, on somethings yes, on others not really on somethings we are making the problems worse.

I'm in a minority in this country. I don't think Americans are special. I think we are the same as every other country who has built up an empire in the history of the world. Empires rise, Empires fall.

I've never claimed DU was representative of the population, I described a mindset of people who have been out of work for a while. I know plenty of people out of work who don't post post here as well both republican and democrat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Yes and statistically we know people are spending the longest

in the rolls in the last generation or two.

But individual perceptions do not statistics make. We are starting to see, at the macro level, sings of a slow and spotty recovery. Granted, the macro level is not where my hubby is (under employed), or most Du'ers who are in a similar situation or looking for work.

[AllentownJake]

52. Like I said in a previous post

When I was 6 we went through one of these and Bethlehem Steel closed

When I was 14 we went through one of these and the main street in Allentown became a Ghost Town...it still is.

When I was 23 we went through one of these and my father was forced into early retirement, the plant he worked at that was in Allentown for 60 years is vacant.

I'm 30 and I'm watching the distribution centers we have here that service New Jersey, Philly, and New York being vacated.

Everytime one of these things has happened in my life, businesses have closed and they haven't been replaced with businesses that offer the same opportunity as before.

[ipaint]

65. If you aren't in the middle/upper middle class and above

it's been one long 35 year recession with a couple years here and there where you can breathe and save a bit but whatever you manage to save is always used up to get through the next recession. We used up the last of our savings months ago, again.
If you are lucky you are able to retrain but my husband retrained twice already in the last couple decades and is now 56 and retraining just isn't an option.
This one threw my family into a depression and I am not alone.

On my working class block of about 24 or so houses, all built between 1920-1950, there are 9 for sale, and 6 for rent signs. The house next to me is abandoned. I am 5 houses from a good elementary school in a relatively safe neighborhood within walking distance of a great little downtown with activities and events every weekend.

Construction and the supporting trades were decimated here and those were the good jobs. There aren't any jobs at a good pay scale to replace them.
People will spend some for the holidays, those for whom the recession is an annoyance not a financial disaster will spend more but they aren't spending it on anything that will create construction jobs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. we are not in the upper or middle classes

but this is not a depression. Some REGIONS you may make the case... (The rust bell) but we are not.

[ipaint]

83. Are you working service jobs for $8-12 an hour with no benefits?

Those are the folks I am talking about. That is what is available replacing good unions jobs in the trades. Those are the people who experience decade long recessions and many of those people will never get another chance at a good job when the so called recovery occurs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. It is STILL not a depression

I know this is hard to comprehend.

Now here is the other hard part to comprehend... the US needs to develop something that has been destroyed over the last 50 year or so... CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS.

[Johonny]

19. perhaps the aliens will bring presents to the poor and

out of work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Hey if they can travel across the black ocean

a few gifts and food should not be out of the realm of their technological prowess.

Now I wonder, who will get to dress like Santa though?

Oh wait, Santa does it over the course of a night right? Perhaps you just discovered the secret... Santa is... AN ALIEN!

:-)

[Robb]

71. Boy, you're among my faves to read on this topic, but I couldn't disagree more.

I'm by no means a doom and gloomer in general, but I'm not buying the upticks.

Even if jobs start rebounding, it's too late to save the underwater mortgages that aren't coming back. There's a lot of debt yet to go sour in this thing, a lot of shoes left to fall. It's anecdotal for me still, but everyone I meet has a neighbor or sister who hasn't paid their mortgage in four, five months, can't get a modification and is waiting for something to happen.

People will spend over the holiday, but it will be relatively dismal. The "money" is not on recovery just yet.

[baldguy]

3. OMG! Obama stole Christmas!!

Don't tell Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. SHHHH... damn it my fellow war on christmas warriors

have no clue about OpSec!

:hi:

Now for that you will have to eat your veggies.

:-)

[grasswire]

5. stores seem to be overloaded with stock...

...and the prices reflect the possibility that the world has stopped buying. Massive discounts at Macy's, Penney's, etc. Massive.

I was at a shopping mall yesterday and it seemed like a foreign world; such a disconnect between the stacks of Xmas stuff and no shoppers.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. Well they use to give out oranges and socks for christmas...

[SoCalDem]

68. and truthfully, very small kids get a lot more than they need or even want

older kids can understand when the family hits a speed bump..

One year when my husband had been laid off in November, all three of our boys had a "secret meeting", and then came to us to tell us that they did not want us to buy them any gifts, since we were now "poor" (their words :)..)

We reassured them that Dad had a new job lined up, but CHOSE to stay home until January, because he had been paid "extra" when they laid him off (they were too young to understand severance packages).

But it was sweet of them to offer.. so any kids over 7 or * can easily understand that some Christmases are better than others:)

[cornermouse]

74. One year my grandparents who went through the Great Depression

gave us a horse-drawn wagon (box with wheels and a couple of corncobs tied to the box) and a footstool made of those large juice cans they used to have covered with padding and fabric. My mother used to talk about one orange for Christmas.

Just a glimpse of the Great Depression.

[cbdo2007]

7. Most people DO have jobs and PLENTY of money

I know my wife and I are doing just fine. We're looking forward to taking advantage of all of the great deals coming this Christmas.

[alittlelark]

13. We're doing just fine too, but MOST are not.

I'm not sure what planet you are living on.

It's great that you are looking forward to all the great deals this year!
All the crap you can consume from communist China that forces abortions and unequal trade!!!
It's a SMORGASBOARD!!!





:crazy: :puke: :eyes:

[quiller4]

87. It is true than many are facing hard times but "most" aren't..

Even if you look at the statistics that try to measure under employment and discouraged workers, you get maybe 17%. That still leaves the vast majority employed.

[dysfunctional press]

31. "PLENTY" of money might be a bit of a stretch for most.

personally, i think that a lot of the recent 'good' economic news is more about propping up people's confidence in spending this christmas, than actual solid economic growth.

[alittlelark]

43. Sadly I have to agree.

This is the capitalistic mecca - and there are stores closing all over.

[Digit]

44. I have no job, and no prospects on the horizon

Then again, I am 58 and nobody wants an old gal like me.
I lost a job I loved because my mgr was jealous because I was the top dawg in sales and I was twice his age. All was fine until customers became scarce.

Well, there was ONE I posted about that was telemarketing, but after some internet research on the company and seeing pages of complaints about their telemarketing....I turned it down. Just so you know, the job said it was customer service, and did not originally SAY it was a telemarketing position or I would never have applied.

[liberal_at_heart]

8. People will still spend money for Christmas

It may not be to the extravagent levels before and it won't all be put on plastic the way it used to be. But people will still buy for Christmas. And maybe some people will find more creative ways to celebrate. Maybe some will make some homemade crafts for gifts, maybe some will offer a good will gesture to babysit for the neighbor or mow their lawn, maybe some will bake a cake for someone or maybe some will simply shop at cheaper places like the Dollar Store and Wal-Mart(ooh, that sends shivers down my spine just thinking about the evil empire of Wal-Mart).

[alittlelark]

10. I went to Old Navy looking for a 'Juno' shirt for my kids costume.

The store was PACKED with product - everything was 30% off today I was told at the door.

The store has 30 or so foot ceilings. They have ads canopied above all their racks. In the spots where the canopied ads had space, or had come undone you could see piles and piles of clothing being stored.

This is in the heart of Silicon Valley. There were 5-8 other ppl in the store.

[REP]

15. I was at the Stanford Bloomies - it was jumping!

The whole mall was pretty busy for a weekday. I have no idea where the Old Navy is around here though.

[alittlelark]

24. Bloomingdales services the really rich - I hit Macys.

I then get a blue tri-tip to take home for dinner and possibly some cupcakes!

[REP]

26. Not really - I shop there, after all

They have some excellent sales and the best customer service ever.

[alittlelark]

40. Their 'sales' are OK - but limited selection.

Macys has great sales, and their Jr's section is awesome - I found a beautiful cocktail dress in the Jr's dept a few years ago. I still wear it, but would never admit where I got it from.;)

[REP]

55. Macys is dingy and depressing; used to love it 20 years ago

Bloomies housewares sales is da bomb, though.

[A HERETIC I AM]

41. Agreed. Ex-Bloomies (25 years ago!) worker here...

and ever since when I've been in one I've always found high quality merchandise at reasonable prices and helpful staff. There's a little bit of art to shopping retail stores like Bloomingdales. You have to watch for the sales and get an idea of the rhythm they have with their seasonal inventory shifts. 4 weeks after a $100 item hits the floor it is often selling for $60.00 or less.

[REP]

61. Amazingly helpful, courteous, friendly staff at Bloomingdales

I've never been pressured to buy a thing there and am always treated like I'm the most important customer ever - no matter how little I spend or if I end up buying nothing. I make sure to get names and cards so I can tell my friends who to ask for and to let corporate know who's making them look good.

The sales rock - best place to get nice sheets for cheap! I like high thread count sheets, and I like paying $60 for a king set even more!

[liberal_at_heart]

47. I shopped at Macy's for the first time ever this year

With their discounted prices they were right around the price I had been paying for at cheaper stores, so I bought my son's school clothes there this year. I figured if the price was right I might as well buy him some good looking clothes. I teach him that being a good person is what counts and he knows this. He isn't nearly as worried about clothes as his teenage sister is. But when you're trying to help an autistic kid fit in with his peers a few good looking clothes doesn't hurt.

[alittlelark]

51. Macys has some of the best prices out there - if you can wait.

Find a clerk, chat them up, and find out when his or her store puts out the returns and overstocks.

It is my favorite place to shop


PS - I HATE shopping - that's why I like a quick in quick out store. I will leave the daughter unit in there for an hour or so while I go elsewhere.

[Odin2005]

82. LOL, my mom had to DRAG this Aspie into Daytons/Marshal Fields to find nice clothes for me.

I couldn't really give a crap. "Jeans are jeans, Mom, who cares about the brand on them?" :rofl:

[HipChick]

11. I haven't celebrated Christmas since I was 13, and I don't do Hallmark celebrations

that Santa guy is pretty shady, he's not to be trusted - I am the original Grinch..never had a Xmas decoration in my house

[WillParkinson]

16. I do not like Mr. Bush...

However the story of him and the scanners is not true: http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp

As for the Xmas stuff on shelves, it's been like that for several years, even in good times. Xmas starts earlier and earlier every year. Soon we'll be buying presents right before celebrating the 4th of July.

[NYC_SKP]

18. My favorite people don't buy shit for Christmas, they make stuff, do favors, or donate to charity.

Consumer gift exchanges are bullshit and not in the true holiday spirit.

Break the cycle.

A lack of gift buying this year and in the future is one of several benefits of the economic downturn.

Re-using, repairing, recycling, rethinking...

Stay-cations, staying in for meals, these are good things.

Christmas Gifts?

Bullshit.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Christmas ain't supposed to be about buying shit.....

But of course, that's part of the problem....
folks who forget that.

[Kievan Rus]

27. Christmas is about family and the birth of Christ...NOT STUFF

I have resolutely decided that I will not partake in the gift-giving rat race this year.

Enough is enough! I have had it with the motherf*****g materialism on this motherf*****g holiday!

[dysfunctional press]

29. tell that to the economists.

in a consumer economy like ours- christmas is about STUFF.

[Kievan Rus]

32. Well it's a religious and family holiday for me

Christmas for Christians, Channukah for Jewish people, so forth and so on.

F**k materialism. It's what destroyed America.

[dysfunctional press]

33. actually- materialism is what BUILT america.

consumer society? remember?

[AllentownJake]

34. Actually making crap and selling crap to each other is what built America

We got a good credit score and now we are living off of debt. Now servicing each other is what makes America, America.

[dysfunctional press]

37. making crap and selling crap is what materialism is all about.

[AllentownJake]

38. We no longer make as much crap

We buy a lot of it though.

[A HERETIC I AM]

39. You've GOT to be kidding.

Actually making crap and selling crap to each other is what built America

So the Railroad infrastructure is crap? The Highways? The ports? Everything? Is that really your opinion? That this country was built on crap?

I know times are tough in Allentown, but perhaps you should get out of Eastern PA for a while and see a bit more of the country.

[AllentownJake]

42. LOL

Seriously dude calm down.

I've lived in 5 states. The country has its strengths and most of the infrastructure and ports were built long before I was born.

We have an economy right now based on debt. Consumer debt and Government debt. It has gotten way out of control and that is why a lot of people are unemployed now. It was meant as a commentary on that.

[A HERETIC I AM]

46. Fair enough.

After reading quite a few of your posts, I'm curious about one thing;

How old are you?

For the record, I turned 50 last May. I've lived in 6 states, 1 overseas US Commonwealth and 2 foreign countries. I drove OTR Tractor Trailers for 20 years and have been in every single one of the lower 48, Hawaii and 3 Canadian Provinces. (I made it to Alaska as a babe-in-arms on a stop over headed overseas, but I can't really count that)

I think it's safe to say I've been around.

I'm just curious how old you are so I can get a better grasp on who you are and your life experiences. It's not important, I'm just curious about who I am conversing with.

On edit to add that I have been to the Allentown/Bethlehem area MANY times as I used to work in Indy Car racing and as I'm sure you are aware, we used to race in Nazareth every year.

[AllentownJake]

48. I'm 30

I'm an accountant. The first job I was hired to out of college was with Arthur Anderson during the Enron fiasco. My offer was rescinded when the firm went bankrupt and I ended up working in a 10-80-10 program for a fortune 500 financial services firm. I lived in CT,IN, and NC while I was working for that firm. I moved to a regional accounting firm that was being investigated by the Feds 3 months after I was hired. From there I worked in Health Insurance till I was targeted for a lay-off. I'll give you 3 guesses why I was targeted. There was a picture of me and the President shaking hands and he was attacking my parent company.

I've worked on 3 political campaigns as a volunteer and realized that I would have more of a politicians attention on an issue with a check than I ever would from volunteering for them.

I'm a tad bit cynical.

[A HERETIC I AM]

53. Oh...to be thirty again!

You seem like a very smart fellow. You've apparently accomplished a lot in your life and you have much to be proud of. You've probably heard by now that in the old days, men tended to have at most, 2 "careers" in their lifetime. Now the norm is at least 3 or more.

Some of us have to reinvent ourselves every so often. I went through the same thing in the last 4 years. I did it in 1987 when I took my first over-the-road trucking/freight hauling job (I had driven locally in the city of Miami for a total of 3 years in the late 70's/early 80's). I reinvented that job when I actively pursued and finally got my first gig in motor racing. Made a big change when I sought after a Union Car Hauling job. Changed again in 2006 when I got off the road and into an office job. I now find myself in the position of needing to reinvent myself again.

"I'm a tad bit cynical"

Yes Jake, that you are! But you're 30 years old. I drove my first 18 wheeler before you were born. You've got an awful lot of time ahead of you. Be glad you aren't a 50 year old looking to take the suit and tie off and go back on the road.

[AllentownJake]

54. I'm figuring it out

It's hard to plan your next move in this economy. You have to wait for the dust to settle before you go for any kind of retraining.

Really hard to date as well when you are unemployed.

Frustrating, my Dad was able to work at the same place for 30 years. Wish we still had the ability for that stability in this country.

[dysfunctional press]

77. the railroads, the highwyas, the ports- all built to facilitate the making and selling of crap.

gotta have stuff to make the crap out of, and a way to get the finished crap to the crapheads, after all.

[LanternWaste]

79. To some. To others, not so much

"christmas is about STUFF..."

I imagine to the many who follow the lead of Madison Ave. it very well is. To others, not so much.

[dysfunctional press]

91. out of context much...?

in terms of our national economy- yes, christmas is most definitely about 'stuff'.

much moreso than acknowledging the pretend birthday of the pretend offspring of a pretend deity.

[LanternWaste]

93. Again, I imagine many people may follow that particular tenet.

"yes, christmas is most definitely about 'stuff'"

Again, I imagine many people may follow that particular tenet.

[dysfunctional press]

96. yes they do...

and the retail sector of our consumer economy pretty much depends on it- year after year.

[eShirl]

75. Everyone knows Christmas is about SANTA.

eom

[Quantess]

36. Sell your least favorite child on the black market.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

50. jesus is not the reason for the season

Axial Tilt is the Reason for the Season.

I do the totally secular christmas thing and have a great time. :D

I also do stuff like make homemade fudge with walnuts in it and mail it to people.

I've even painted xmas cards one at a time. You can get folded postcard sized sheets of heavy watercolor paper to do your painting on. it's great for sending people into shock. :D

The one good thing I have seen this year which brings out hubby's inner Clark Griswold:
They finally have LED christmas lights in diff sizes and colors.

[REP]

56. Amen!

I've posted the axial tilt reason elsewhere myself, and given a history of prechristian perisolstice celebrations. Basically, it's cold, dark and depressing - let's have a party!

[Arugula Latte]

81. Yep -- the reason for the season is that the days are getting longer in the Northern hemisphere

The Jesus myth was tacked on much later.

[earth mom]

57. I see the minders are out in full force on this thread. Even though unemployment is close to 20%.

Yeah that's right, not 10%-but 20%!


That sound you hear is the social fabric about to snap

The real unemployment rate is almost 20 percent. Here's what the federal government can do about the jobs crisis

By Michael Lind


Oct. 19, 2009 | According to official statistics, the unemployment rate in the United States is now 9.8 percent. But those statistics understate the severity of the jobs crisis. The official statistics do not include the 875,000 Americans who have given up looking for work, even though they want jobs. When these "marginally attached" workers and part-time workers are added to the officially unemployed, the result, according to another, broader governement measure of unemployment known as "U-6," is shocking. The United States has an unemployment rate of 17 percent. And even this may understate the depth of the problem. By adding the 3.4 million Americans who want a job but have not looked for one in over a year, businessman, philanthropist and Obama advisor Leo Hindery Jr. infers an actual unemployment rate of 18.8 percent. In other words, nearly one in five Americans is unemployed or underemployed.

The sound you hear is the sound of the social fabric in America rotting and beginning to snap. Thanks to the unemployment insurance system adopted during the New Deal years, and thanks in part to the stimulus that the Obama administration and Congress passed earlier in the year, we do not have hordes of out-of-work Americans standing in line at soup kitchens and riding the rails from town to town. Even so, the invisible decay of America's social order is just as real as the highly visible decay of abandoned McMansions in new developments that are turning into ghost towns across the continent.

<snip>

The American political class, insulated by wealth and connections from the economic storm, has been slow to respond to this crisis. The Democratic majority in Washington has hoped that the stimulus would solve much of the problem. While waiting for its effects to manifest themselves, the Democrats have focused on long-term problems of structural reform -- healthcare, the environment, education. The Republican right has nothing to offer, except a contradictory message that both taxes and deficits should be drastically cut.

<snip>

If we can bail out the employees of Wall Street, we can bail out the unemployed on Main Street. And we had better do so quickly, if we don't want that rotting sound to be followed by a sudden snap.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/10/19/jobs/

[A HERETIC I AM]

59. Interesting. The institute the author works for is hiring.

http://www.newamerica.net/about/employment_opportunities

Oh well, I guess I'll just give up then.

[earth mom]

95. There are 6 people for every 1 job. They probably won't hire a smart ass like you. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

108. I've no interest in applying. I'm already employed as a professional smart ass...

The pay is great, the work steady and all I have to do is annoy people like you.

However, I'm sure you're a real sweety there, Earth Mom.

Just a joy to have around at parties and such.

I'm sorry you seem to have some sort of problem with the fact that I pointed out the very institute the author is associated with, the writer of a piece telling us how bad the job market is, is ACTUALLY HIRING! I think it's funny. So yeah, I suppose I'm a smart ass because I can spot irony.

[roamer65]

58. Maybe people will apprciate the holiday more for what it is supposed to be....

A time to be with family and friends.

[Missy Vixen]

62. We're celebrating. Quietly.

I like sending cards, so I'm squeezing a few bucks out of the budget to do that. We're buying each other a gift or two. We may host the family dinner (if everyone can decide when they'd like to have it.) I like to bake, I'll make fudge, too.

Mostly, we'll make popcorn, we'll watch old movies, and we'll enjoy people we haven't seen for awhile.

The chances are extremely good that I will not step foot inside a mall at any time between the end of October till after New Year's.

[Double T]

63. America can easily afford Christmas.

All Americans should spend like drunken sailors this Christmas; THEN congress can take ALL of our bills and add it to the national debt and deficit. When in burning ROME, do as the burning ROMANS do.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Not much.

My husband and I BOTH got laid off this year. We're having a homeless family over for Christmas and scraping together whatever we can to have something under the tree for the children, even if it's just crayons in one gift and coloring book in another. I remember too many Christmases growing up where we had nothing and I've never forgotten it. I'm bringing the girls over the day before so we can bake cookies and decorate the house. On Christmas day we'll all have a nice dinner. Hopefully all that will make an otherwise dim Christmas a little brighter for all of us.

[DesertRat]

101. What a lovely idea

I hope you have a wonderful holiday. :hug:

[SoCalDem]

66. Mine is done

having grown up kids helps a lot. we decided a few years ago to quit "exchanging gift cards" :rofl:

I do a little baking, and if I see something I want them to have, I just get it & send it to them Xmas or not.

This year I splurged and got each of them the boxed set trilogy of Connections (the old BBC series). It was pricey, but they loved it:)..got one for us too.. now all we have to do is hook up the DVD player we gor in 2003..that's still in the box :)

[vadawg]

69. The same as any other year, we dont do christmas until first week in january

so we get the benefit of the sales... save a lot on wrapping paper etc as well...

[JNelson6563]

70. It will be a very happy holiday for me!

Last Christmas, if not for the generosity of a very dear friend, I would've been homeless. My ex was out of town for Christmas day and the kids and I were there for our celebration. I managed a few gifts for them but the house was pretty filthy (apparently the live in girl friend doesn't help w/cleaning) and it was not very great (being diplomatic here). This year I've found my dream job, gotten a place and gotten my shit back together. I don't care if there are presents or not, though I'm sure to pick up a few things for my kids. We will be at my nice, clean place with our traditional fabulous brunch and scrumptious dinner.

Perhaps this year of tough times will help people remember what is really important: Loving each other.

Julie

[southernyankeebelle]

72. It isn't the end of the world you know. When I was a kid we were lucky to

get one gift every year. I came froma family of 6 kids. We were happy because we got to decorate a tree, sing songs and always had a nice christmas day meal. Today I have 2 grandchildren, one has a birthday early in december and the other has her's on christmas day. They each get nice presents for each holiday. I don't go crazy on buying allot of toys. I told my 3 yr old that santa is expriencing hard times this year and he is going to have to hpelp allot of families. We try to get each child a $100.00 savings bond for their birthday. The older grandchild I put $20 in a card and let him pick out his own gift. The younger on I buy that child a gift of equal value. We really plan a family meal. That is the most important time together.

[old mark]

73. We are giving small presents, nothing to expensive, but I do see some signs

that things are improving for working people, except here in PA, where our wonderful Governor rendell is laying off hundreds of state employees because of "budget shortfalls". Meanwhile the legislators and governor get raises.

mark

[L0oniX]

78. xmas = commercial psych

[Odin2005]

84. I hate the commercialization of X-mas.

To me it's a Winter Solstice festival and a time to be with the folks, not to blow $300 on junk.

[Dreamer Tatum]

85. 1 - .2 = .8

Even if the real unemployment number is 20%, 80% are employed, and many of those that are employed are not feeling as poor due to the 2009 runup in the markets. I think the numbers will be way off this Xmas, but plenty of people are doing just fine.

[quiller4]

86. Even though unemployment is over 8% in my area, people

are starting to shop again. The majority who havan't lost their jobs now tell pollsters that they no longer fear job loss since lay offs have stopped at their firms and discussions are underway about how and when to begin re-hiring.

According to consumer surveys most families are planning to spend a bit more for Christmas in 2009 than they did in 2008 and they are already shopping.

Last year our giving was restricted to immediate family. After some talks with my sisters we've decided to resume the extended family exchange. That means in our extended family of 35 we will each spend $50-$75 more than we did last year.

[alarimer]

88. We should boycott Christmas

Or at least we should boycott gluttonous spending for shit we do not need and can't afford.

We are obscene in our consumption. It has to stop.

[TwilightGardener]

89. Is this really a concern? Some years there is less under the tree than

in other years--and? Be grateful for what you've got, be grateful for family and friends. Put up a little Charlie Brown tree, light some candles, bake some cookies, go to church if you do that, drive around and look at holiday light displays--it's still Christmas, even if you can't afford to give your kids Playstation 3's and new laptops or whatever.

[blues90]

90. I'm amazed how your OP was turned into an all america

Fucked up shopping spree.

In my mind anyone without a job and can't find one and is on the edge or has found some job but needs two now and then some , this is a depression.

For those who posted that they are doing so well , this is just another day. I guess you could say you are the ones who watched as everyone elses jobs were shipped over seas and said nothing because it did not affect you. You just went along for the cheap wally world deals as the norm. I seriously doubt the few of you here represent the reality many others face.

For those in fear of losing their job this is a recession.

[liberal_at_heart]

97. do you really think we are unaffected just because we still have a job?

My husband's father, mother, and brother are all losing their jobs. We've been helping his mother pay the insurance and taxes on her house. We still don't know if she will be able to keep her house. My point and I think the point of some of the others on here is that there are signs of recovery. Consumer sentiment is beginning to pick up some. When people start buying things again, companies will start hiring again. Then we will see more jobs.

[blues90]

98. That is not really what I said.

You cannot go by a handfull of posts here and base that as a real job recovery by a long shot.

And even if people start buying again if it's the same products from overseas how does that in any way create jobs other than service jobs in some crap box store.

And the point of some others here was they were doing quite well. Well I'm sure they are but does this reflect your reality? Are jobs bursting out where you live , they certainly are not where I live. If I had the money to go out and buy gifts which I don't , and my choices were a box store or chain selling slave labor products I can tell you I would not shop or buy a thing. Now if there were options to buy used items that the proceeds went to a good cause or were from a family business and made here I would if I could.

Most of the reason we have no jobs is because of ours being shipped away to save on labor. If you want to argue that go right ahead.

Not long ago last X-mas stores could not sell their crap for 80% off..

[liberal_at_heart]

104. I agree that to really improve things we have to create jobs

I do agree that we as Americans have to figure out what we are going to make that the rest of the world wants to buy. We are already behind Europe and the Nordic countries when it comes to manufacturing alternative energy supplies like wind turbines and solar panels and such. It would take us a very long time to catch up to them in the market place. Japan is still the leader in inventing and innovating the world's electronic technology although China seems to be the one manufacturing it all. So, what can we make that the rest of the world wants to buy? I don't know, but I do agree we need to figure it out. Our car manufacturers are still trying to sell big trucks while Toyota introduces a 3rd generation Prius although don't we have a Toyota manufacturing plant here in the US? I think we do. I'm not sure we can gage how the entire country is doing by how my life is going nor can we go by how your life is going? Neither one us represent the entire country. There are industries and companies still doing well; Procter & Gamble, Costco, Google, Wal-Mart, McDonald's, Colgate, Johnson & Johnson, Apple, AT&T. These are just a few companies that are surviving the recession. At the same time there are still lots of job layoffs and people who can't find work. It is tough for lots of people. I'm sorry you are going through such a hard time. While there are signs of recovery it will not happen at the same rate for everyone. It will come slower for some than for others. I do hope we can see a complete recovery very soon. The good news is I have heard that many companies slashed too many jobs in a panic last year and that we could see a good job recovery in 2010.

[blues90]

106. I hope we see recovery soon too .

But one of my fears is what's to stop the energy companies from getting in on the ground level of green jobs since they have all the money?

The companies you listed have all outsorced most of their positions , you know pick up the phone and call customer service and you are not talking to someone in the USA. Walmart sells slave labor produced products.

Back in the late 50's Japan was making most of the electronics but it was not long before we saw ROC Made in the republic of China on these very same products . Makita power tolls is another prime example , Japn at first now China and a few made in the USA. Then near the same time we saw products from all over Asia and every other place so Japan did much of what the USA did. Sony long ago was not made in Japan.

We need products made here to sell here to cramp out the hold the box stores have and kill them off entirely. This is how we got here in the first place. Now that all these other countries make their own products why would they buy ours. If we want a global economy then we can't compete and make a living wage unless everything we need sells for what our now low wages allow.

We are never going to get out of this if we continue as we are now.

There were many american inventions for cars that were killed by our own corporations none of these ideas we see are new ,look what happened to the electric car , they only let them out as lease cars no one could buy one and when they looked too good they were crushed.

Now that suddenly global warming became a great issue we decide to compete , it's too late now we had our chance long ago to force auto companies to build better milage cars yet they were joined at the hip with big oil and still are but now we are to trust them on what basis?

We made products that were designed to be repaired not ossed out so in doing the toss out idea we killed most all repair jobs , I don't see TV or radio repair shops now or much other than auto repair or home repair because the labor can't be outsourced yet the parts are not made here so we in affect killed the parts manufacturing end, the entire rust belt.

NOw I have not a clue how to change this. The jobs we lost are not coming back and we sold our selves out cheap now what? You cannot find nails or screws or any hardware made here , try to find nails still under the stanely brand and they are not made here. The tools too no matter what brand they are. guitars , amplifiers , phones, vaccums, computors, you name it we don't make it except for a few high end products but lok inside made everywhere but here. . No one is inventing anything new they just come out with the next model to make the old one obsolete and add features so what are we going to make?

[earth mom]

105. The "I've got mine" attitude around here is disgusting.

And so is the disgusting disinfo posted on this thread by bankster bailout cheerleaders that unemployment is "only" at 10% which is a total lie because it's really closer to 20%.


There are thousands of people who had homes last Christmas who are now HOMELESS and living in their car, or a tent or a shelter!


Christmas this year won't be so jolly or ho-ho-ho for lots of people-not by a long shot.

[liberal_at_heart]

107. Why are we getting bashed because we have jobs? Are we suppose to quit?

I don't understand the bashing of people who still have jobs. Because my husband has a job and his employer is offering raises this year we are able to help his family and give to our local food shelter. If his employer wasn't offering raises this year we wouldn't be able to help his mother make insurance and tax payments on her house. My husband's father, mother, and brother are all losing their jobs. My husband who is very knowledgable on computers is going to be teaching his family how to use a computer so they can be more marketable in the job market. Every year at Christmas we give to the Angel Tree and other charities that help families have Christmas and this year will be no different. We will give this year as well. Am I happy that my husband's employer is giving out raises this year? Yes I am. Does that mean I don't care about those who don't have jobs? No. I guess it is true that if you consider yourself to be in the middle you can't win. I use to go to a music board that was completely conservative and I use to get bashes because I believe in Universal Healthcare and Social Security, and Medicare and other social programs. I come here and apparentley I'm not liberal enough. I don't bash Obama enough because some feel he isn't doing enough. By the way, I don't feel he is doing enough especially when it comes to healthcare and jobs. I just don't go around bashing him for it, and I do think he did a good job with the stimulus which I know will also get me in trouble here because no one thinks he did a good job on the stimulus. I guess from now on I should just not let it bother me. I have my opinions and that is all that matters. What others think of me shouldn't matter to me.

[earth mom]

109. We're all in this together. That's what I'm speaking to.

I am speaking to the people on this thread who pretend the economy is fine and dandy just because their stocks are doing well, which has shit to do with the REAL economy in this country.

The stimulus aka "bankster bailout" was nothing more than a giveaway of OUR hard earned money to the moneyed elite who did NOT need it and have proceeded to gamble with it and party with it on Wall Street while Main Street and the rest of the middle class and working class crashes and burns.

I don't know why you are so touchy about blues90s post and my post, but I find it interesting that you are so defensive.

My husband and I are NOT hurting right now. We have no worries, have so called "great" health insurance, yet we both know agree that the "have alls" are stealing us all blind. What those bastards are doing is criminal! I refuse to turn a blind eye to it just because my family has no worries and my husband has an ultra secure job.

Again, we are ALL in this together. The sooner everyone who is NOT rich in this country gets that the better.

Because then we can fight the real enemy-the rich corporate mo fos-together.

[A HERETIC I AM]

110. There are plenty of people on DU like earth mom

The fact is, people like that prefer everyone to hold to their view of things, and that view is best personified by this character from childhood;

[treestar]

99. That's silly

There are still jobs. Even if unemployment is 18%, then 82% of the people have jobs.

Do you really think all that stuff will still be sitting there on Dec. 25?

Not that I wouldn't like to see it cut back. I hate the consumerist Christmas.

[DesertRat]

100. Not everyone is in desparate straits

Just sayin'

[A HERETIC I AM]

112. Yes they are.

Everyone is struggling. Everyone. Except the rich.

And if you don't agree with that point of view you're nothing but a bankster bailout cheerleader.

Shame on you.

[DesertRat]

116. Shame on me?

You must have forgotten the sarcasm icon.

[tammywammy]

102. I will spend around the same that I always do, maybe a little more. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

103. There is TRULY nothing that I want

Nothing. I cannot think of a thing. I want to be with my family. Short of that, nothing else matters.
I have been working on my gift to my granddaughters for several months. It is a trunk that I made out of wood scraps and have been shopping the Goodwill, thrift shops, yard sales, etc for old fancy dresses, costumes, gaudy jewelry and hats.
I suspect that this will be one of their favorite gifts ever and I have not contributed to the chinese madness in doing it.

[Lars39]

113. Add some feather boas...she'll love 'em.

:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

114. OOOhhh good idea!!

Thanks!:hug:

[Texasgal]

115. Austin is the 2nd strongest economy

in the nation as of yesterday.

I am in healthcare and doing fine, I never spent alot for Christmas anyway so none of this holiday crap will affect me.