If there is a proposal for a second bailout

[AllentownJake]

We must protest it.

I'm reading reports that their maybe some liquidity problems in the Too Big To Fail crowd. While some have recorded earnings, those of us with a knowledge of accounting know that accounting rules have been changed or suspended this year to boost some of these banks balance sheets and prevent them from facing the consequences of their bad behavior.

Cash on hand on balance sheets looks weak and consumers with good credit are having their lines of credit cut or their interest rates increased. This is not the behavior of healthy lenders.

If another bailout of the banking industry is proposed we most say NO! As Citizens we must stop the robbery and demand accountability.

We must not allow a second robbery of our Treasury to protect Wall Street from the consequences of their actions that are being felt across America.

[MNDemNY]

1. Yes the "Bush Bailout" was hastily and poorly constructed, however necessary it was.

The only form a "second" bailout can take is a nationalization of the bailed out firms. (Nationalized, and liquidated)

[MercutioATC]

2. Keep fighting, brother!

DU may give you the kind of response they save for teabaggers with misspelled signs, but you're talking sense.

:thumbsup:

IF a second stimulus bill is targeted for actual stimulus and is accompanied by complementary trade and tax legislation, I'll support it. I don't think that's a realistic expectation, though.

[AllentownJake]

5. I take it with a grain of salt from my fan club

Most of my fan club thought sitting at home watching Keith Olbermann during the election was supporting the campaign. I was a leader in that movement. I will not sacrifice my integrity when I think something is not going in the right direction to appease a bunch of armchair cheerleaders.

[MercutioATC]

8. That's why I love ya.

Caustic, even to people to agree....but with a reason.

I don't agree with everything you opine, but I agree with a lot of it...and I appreciate that you're not looking for a "popular" view.

[AllentownJake]

9. Thank you

I don't want people to necessarily agree with me. I want people to think and ask questions. If someone supports what is being done. Fine, but justify your support for the policy don't tell me to trust a Politician.

[Taverner]

3. How about a homeowner bailout?

A moratorium on all foreclosures

And I love MM's idea of making it illegal to foreclose on an unemployed person's home

[AllentownJake]

4. Those aren't in the offering

with this administration or this congress.

[Taverner]

6. Sadly, I know

[Nikki Stone1]

7. K & R

Sometimes the best posts go over the heads of the crowd.

And I will fight a second bailout. I will call every official from California and drive to their offices if I have to.

[Joe Fields]

10. you give good reasons for a second round of bailouts.

Now, I am not really at odds with you. Philosophically, I was opposed to bailouts of any kind for any industry. We should NEVER have allowed the privatization of profits and the socialization of losses for any industry. I had always been raised to believe that you rise and fall according to your efforts.

The genie is out of the bottle, and it's not Barbara Eden. I don't know how our govt. will ever put it back. If you are correct, and liquidity is drying up, then another round of bailouts is surely in the offing. At this point, I cannot say whether I would be for or against such a move. But I would demand tight regulations and some real teeth in prosecutorial powers toward those corporate ceo's who refuse to straighten up.

If we don't have another round of bailouts, then what? How would you suggest fixing the problem, or do we just let the entire economy to go under?

[AllentownJake]

11. The entire economy won't go under

Banks that got too big in the first place will go under.

I'm reminded of a bad decision by my father. He worked at Lucent Technology for 33 years and was a manager. Right before the fall of Lucent I went to my father and said their balance sheet and income statement doesn't look good. He trusted his management over his 23 year old son whose education in accounting he helped finance.

Every year my father was rewarded with stock as a bonus instead of cash. Right before the fall he held about 1,000,000 in market value of Lucent Stock. He held onto that stock throughout the decline the entire time, never willing to sell hoping that he would be returned to his $1,000,000 position. He ended up selling the stock for $30,000 four years after I told him to sell.

Lucent was engaged in a whole bunch of questionable accounting practices...they were never really worth $100 and they killed a lot of their good business for short term gains.

Sometimes, you just have to take your loss and do the best you can with it. I don't want my nation to be left with shares that were selling for $100 and are now selling at $3.

[Joe Fields]

15. I think we will just have to leave it here. I'm not so sure the economy

won't tank, at this point, since there is no job recovery, without a second round of bailouts. Sad, but true, the way I see it playing out.

[AllentownJake]

17. You do a second round of bailouts

You devalue the dollar further. I'm calling what is going on right now as the Kobyashi Maru of economic problems.

[Joe Fields]

20. agreed. it won't stop the govt. from doing it, though.

[AllentownJake]

21. That is why I call it the Kobyashi Maru

The end result is predetermined. The games that are played to prevent getting there and rebuilding are not.

[Hidden Stillness]

12. It Should Be Spent on the People; They Have Done Nothing for Us

The big brokers on Wall St. have used the money for takeovers, bonuses, advertising, and their own expenses, as they are all still insolvent, and lying on paper because of the silly non-standards of the "test" that was constructed by Geithner, etc. Take them over, clean up the problem, break them up, send them to prison, then return it to commercial ownership: they did that during the 1980s, when --yet again--they deregulated everything and we got the savings-and-loan killing spree. If they want to stimulate the real economy--and they obviously don't--put it all to food stamps, unemployment benefits, and direct-cash payments to people on welfare, Social Security, etc. They are desperate, they will spend it immediately, and you get the biggest return for amount of tax money spent, on actual figures.

[AllentownJake]

13. The best thing they could have done

Is taken the bailout money and offered as low interest loans to industry to build up a new economy. The return on investments in tax revenues would have offset any losses, plus they probably would have made a small profit off the interest.

Giving the money to bankrupt middlemen is probably one of the stupidest ideas in world history.

[hfojvt]

14. I don't think it is all accounting rule changes

this is logically a good time for banks. Consider that their expenses - the interest they pay on CDs and Savings accounts has gone way down. Meanwhile their revenues - the interest they collect from loans, has not changed that much. And if rates go down so much that people refinance, the bank still collects a bunch of fees on that refi. At the last annual meeting of my Credit Union back in April I saw the same thing, their revenues were down, but their profits were up.

[AllentownJake]

16. You are leaving out one big part of the equation

Revenue from past loans and investments. The accounting rule that they overturned was the one where you value your assets at their actual market value. Most of your revenue and profitability is determined on what you have on your books not what you are currently bringing in.

So you have a basket of mortgages that are worth about 50% of what they were worth two years ago. You value those mortgages at 75% or 100% and you do not recognize a loss on those investments. Under the old rule, that would be considered fraud.

Now your CEO gets his bonus based on earnings and share price. If you are able to hide losses on your balance sheet you can boost your earning. You are also discouraged from selling said investments because if you sell them you will have to recognize a loss that quarter.

Now with unemployment projected to stay at above 9.5% well into 2010 you are going to continue to have losses from those investments.

Do you see the problem. TARP was made under the assumption they could return things to normal and the asset values would bounce back...they aren't.

[hfojvt]

25. that seems to be going into the weeds

What is your financial background?

[Lochloosa]

18. We need two things now.

Tariffs on imported goods that we still make or are able to make. We must start building things in the US again. And in the short term, bring back the CCC or it's equivalent and get people working again.

[AndyA]

19. NO MORE BAILOUTS FOR BANKS!

Break them up if they're too big to fail!

Enough is enough!! They increase fees, raise interest rates on credit cards, yet pay 0.06% on savings accounts. BULLSHIT!

Break the bastards up and send the executives PACKING! Kick their sorry butts to the curb where they belong.

[Birthmark]

22. If there is a second bailout...

...it had damned well better be a bailout of the PEOPLE, not the corporations. Let them go screw. We need them a lot less than most of you probably think we do.

The PEOPLE are what the Nation is about. And it is the consumer spending of the PEOPLE that drives this economy, not the fun 'n' games on Wall Street.

[bvar22]

23. I bet they can reach a "bi-partisan consensus"...

..in less than a week, just like last time.
After all, we are talking about financial aid for Billionaires here.


NOW we have Your Children’s Money too !!!
And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it!
Now THIS is “Bi-Partisanship” !
Better get used to it!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!

[girl gone mad]

24. 90% of the calls and e-mail to congress on TARP were against it.

But they voted for it anyhow.

I think they are playing a very dangerous game if they do something like that again.