Should Democrats Stay Off Fox Until It Confesses? (Cenk @ HuffPo w/ Text, Vids & Debate Challenge)

[ihavenobias]

Note: Cenk issues a debate challenge at the bottom of his new piece (he already had a great one the other night which is included here). Also, "On Friday's , (Cenk will be) taking on former Republican Congressman John LeBoutillier on the same topic."


By Cenk Uygur

Is there really any doubt in anyone's mind that Fox has been attacking Obama from day one? Can anyone really be that misinformed or disingenuous? Well, if you are, this video from Media Matters will disabuse you of that notion:



Half the people on there are their "news" anchors, like Brett Baier, Brit Hume, Megyn Kelly, David Asman, Neil Cavuto (I know, it's funny but they pretend he's also a straight news anchor) and Bill Hemmer, among others. If you want more undeniable examples of Fox slanting the news and presenting their own propaganda, you can (please read the articles in the links).

Come on, does anyone really believe that ACORN is the top story of the day? Every day? They just happen to pick Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, ACORN, etc. as the top news stories to cover by sheer coincidence? Or is it possible that is their obvious, ham-handed way of attacking the president on a daily basis? I can't believe we're having this argument.

But I'm more incredulous that we have the rest of the media defending Fox on this as if Obama started this fight or that he shouldn't fight back against an organization that is attacking him non-stop. So, let's make some things clear:

1. The White House is not threatening to shut down Fox News or take away their license. It's a free country. They can attack Obama all day long. But Obama also has a right to fight back. So, please stop with the histrionics about how the government is coming down on the media.

President Obama doesn't have to do them the favor of coming on their shows. It's his prerogative not to do so. According to the argument of the people defending Fox, does the president also have to go on Rush Limbaugh's program? Otherwise, is he attacking the media?

How about my show? Does the president have to come on our show to avoid charges that he is spiting all progressives? All progressive media? The whole press? Of course not, he can go on any damn show he likes.

2. There is nothing wrong with partisan press. The Nation, National Review, Air America and Fox News Channel are all ideologically driven press. The problem is that the only one lying about it is Fox News. They claim to do straight journalism when they are obviously ideologically slanted in one direction. Has anyone ever thought Fox was too liberal? Too moderate? Of course not, they're conservative.

So, Democrats should not to go on Fox News until they admit what they are. If they say they are indeed partisan press, then no problem. Everyone can go on there with the proper understanding of the context. If they continue to pretend they are doing straight, unbiased news, then why should the Democratic Party aid and abet that lie? If Fox is honest about their perspective, then the president and the Democrats should be ready to take the fight to them on their air.

3. Since I'm flabbergasted that anyone in the media would claim Fox does straight journalism, I'd like to offer a fun challenge. I will take on anyone in the press in a debate on the issue of whether Fox is really a news station or not. All comers are welcome. It's impossible to lose that debate, so it's the easiest challenge of my life.

In fact, here is an interview with Glynnis MacNicol of Mediaite where we basically had that debate:




to read the entire piece along with some interesting comments at Huffington Post.

[Cha]

1. Thank you, Cenk! And,

you, too, ihnb~

I'll watch the video when I get home tonight.

I had a customer in the co-op this morning who asked, "What do you think about Obama picking on faux?"!! This was after I told him all about the great dinner I had out with my Democratic Women Friends on Wednesday night.

I told him that Obama was confronting faux..not picking on(I thought later, "poor little victim fauxsn00ze:nopity:)

This guy supports Obama but he watches faux..I knew this from past conversations when I told they were a propaganda machine for the republiCons..but, that hasn't quite sunk into his psyche. .

[ihavenobias]

2. UPDATE: The right-wing "NewsBusters" put up a piece about Cenk regarding Fox.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2009/10/23/fox-news-objective-air-america

Cenk Uygur of the leftist "Young Turks" radio show wrote up a funny list of "three categories of media" for the Daily Kos...Uygur went so far as to insist Fox News was more akin to Air America than CNN, and that they were responsible for the "unpardonable error" of not calling the election for Al Gore in 2000...

Notice that they don't even attempt to deny that Fox changed the 2000 election results!

[Cha]

24. Yep..two Americas..the truth seekers and

those who seek out being brainwashed.

[Rhiannon12866]

21. Also, you might suggest that he watch "Outfoxed..."

I've been wondering for years how I could get my mother to sit through it... :grr:

Rhiannon :hi:

[Cha]

23. Great idea, Rhiannon!

I haven't watched it bc I was ahead of the curve as far as faux is concerned but I've heard it really lays it out there!

Thanks!:hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Well, I've probably seen it enough times for both of us, LOL.

For awhile, it was on Sundance, I think. The first time I saw it was at my first DU "meetup" back before the 2004 election. Six of us got together, here in the North Country... :D

And it does unmistakably lay it right out there... I can't imagine anybody regarding FAUX as "news" after seeing it... :hi:

[ihavenobias]

33. I own it.

I'm a fan of Brave New Films.

[Rhiannon12866]

38. So would you consider lending it to my mother? ;)

Actually, my BF owns it, too, so I did have the chance to see it more recently than 2004. I kept trying to imagine a scenario in which I could show it to my mother, but came up empty. The last time I stopped by to see her, I had to get the hell out of there when my FReep of a brother turned on Glenn BecKKK. No joke. And my mother wonders why I don't "stop by" more often... x( :-(

[FiveGoodMen]

3. K&R

[fascisthunter]

4. FOX feels "Entitled"

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... welcome to reality.

[20score]

5. I've aways thought they should stay off of Fox. Lying about everything, stirring up crazies and

doing damage to the country daily should not be ignored as business as usual. K&R

[ihavenobias]

6. Well, it depends.

Cenk's point is that they should stay off until Fox admits the purpose of the network is to push a conservative/Republican agenda. If they admitted the obvious truth instead of making the laughable "fair and balanced" claim the only problem left would be the opinion hosts inciting violence.

[20score]

8. Kind of a big problem, really.

That said, if they admitted they weren't news and cut out the criminal inciting - then why not go on.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

7. Wow, that video from Media Matters is must viewing...

Here is the link from the OP, in case anyone missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDR47EKTrCQ&featur

As far as staying off FOX, I'd have to agree with Cenk. My point would be, that they don't just attack the Democratic or liberal point of view, Fox attacks the sane and rational POV, and has been doing it for a long time. Remember 2003 and the build-up to the (insane)Iraq War? Fox treated it like they were cheerleaders. (and others followed)

The problem is, that it is almost impossible to make a solid point, as a guest or a caller, as they are very good at dominating a discussion, by cutting off your Mic. or shouting over you.

So only very skilled media people should even attempt it...I'd say it's a lose/lose in almost all cases.

[truedelphi]

10. Thank you for that link. n/t

[ihavenobias]

11. Not to mention the fact that certain Fox hosts incite violence.

That shouldn't get lost in the discussion.

[Enthusiast]

16. That clip is insane.

Apparently millions don't recognize it as insane. Frightening.

[damntexdem]

9. We block Faux News on our TVs.

Stay off? Why go on?

[JDPriestly]

12. Love ya Cenk. The son I never had.

[SoCalDem]

13. They should have done it, but QUIETLY..

as always, democrats grab a megaphone and announce what "they're-a-gonna-do"..

[Enthusiast]

14. I vow to stay off Fixed Noise.

:puke:

[Kajsa]

15. No Faux News here,

K&R!

[ejbr]

17. k & r n/t

[Tippy]

18. Democrats Please stay away from thoxse DIRT BAGS at FOX

[democracy1st]

19. K & R

[wroberts189]

20. knr

[matthewf]

22. k&r

[creeksneakers2]

26. Why play their game and treat news separately?

Opinion programming is fine but opinion doesn't mean its OK to spread big lies constantly. Those "opinion" shows are offering statements as fact that aren't true. Fox is getting away with dismissing all criticism of their worst propaganda by calling it "opinion." They shouldn't be allowed to get away with that unchallenged.

[gleaner]

27. I always thought that ....

if Faux news were denied access to Democratic pundits, and now to the Democratic White House, that they might dry up for lack of sponsorship. The one great controlling factor here is that most of the big news still comes from politicians in Washington DC. Without their cooperation and comments and admittance to news conferences and other media affairs Faux would be left with only the Conservatives. That would make the bias even more obvious than it is and it would empty out Murdoch's pockets faster. Since Murdoch cares very much about his cash flow it would then behoove him to shut it down.

[KoKo]

28. K&R....an interesting situation!

:kick:

[libodem]

29. Seems like anyone who has to tell you they are fair

and balanced, over and over again is trying very hard to be convincing. F-ing liars. We report-you decide, my ass. They are telling you what to believe.

[rufus dog]

30. Although the Media Matters piece is great it doesn't go far enough

Keith is starting to pound the point on how they create a narrative. One I haven't seen brought up is the Million Moran March. Fox promoted the the thing, then had special programming dedicated to the event. Beck started the show estimating 70,000 tea baggers, then they started to spin and needed to make it bigger so they get use a false and unverified Malkin report of 1,700,000. Murdoch's paper in London posts the ridiculously high estimate and then Fox references "European Papers" estimate the crowd at 1,700,000.

So they take a unverified false story and publish it in a sister outlet then reference the published story to lend credence to a lie.


By the way, I think the WH timing may be tied to the Acorn story. Most likely the unedited tape tells a very different story and the hits came from the WH prior to the release of the tapes. Then when the tapes demonstrate Fox manufacturing a story using unreliable sources, Gibbs can take a shot at Fox while they are reeling from the O'Keefe blow.

[CherylK]

31. K & R!!!

:kick:

[Turborama]

32. K&R I am starting to develop a theory that's pretty much out there and not being discussed by anyone

Could the White House's pulling the curtain on Faux be partly directed at a wider audience than just TV viewers in the US?

Check out the point I made at the end of http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x392974">this OP to see where I'm going with this. (BTW Faux is also broadcast across Indonesia, the largest Muslim democracy in the world)

I could be wrong and something completely different is motivating them but, even if I am wrong, the fact that they are attacking Faux can't be doing any harm to Obama's image in the outside world and is hopefully neytralizing some of the hatred towards America that Faux must surely be generating. Yes, anti-Americanism is still rampant across the Muslim world and Faux aren't doing our image any favors.

Faux news is America-centric and exists within its own fascist Islamaphobic bubble and does not have an International version. Can you imagine what people's image of Americans must be if the only American news they see is from Faux?

As JDPriestly posted in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4103324&mesg_id=4103359">another thread about this

"This is why President Obama is publicly distancing himself from Fox News.


Broadcasting Fox News in Pakistan is like broadcasting Taliban News in the US.

....

I hate to think that Glenn Beck and Bill O-Reilly and all those barely clothed women are the Pakistanis' image of Americans. Horrors!!"


In fact, it was those comments that got me thinking about the theory I put forward above.

Remember Rumsfeld's attacks on Al Jazeera? For fuck's sake, Busch even joked about bombing Al Jazeera's offices! And they have the audacity to complain about the White House telling the truth about Faux news?


Rumsfeld’s Al-Jazeera outburst
November 27, 2005

THE Middle Eastern news network Al-Jazeera was accused by Donald Rumsfeld, the American defence secretary, of broadcasting “vicious, inaccurate and inexcusable” reports about the war in Iraq the day before President George W Bush met Tony Blair at the White House and apparently suggested bombing the station’s headquarters.

Rumsfeld denounced the satellite television station at a Pentagon briefing on April 15, 2004 after Al-Jazeera had reported that America’s assault on the insurgent stronghold of Falluja was terrorising civilians. “They are simply lying,” Rumsfeld said.

It was on April 16 that Bush reportedly said during talks with Blair that he wanted to bomb Al-Jazeera’s offices in Doha, Qatar, although it is not known whether he was joking.

A report last week that was said to be based on a transcript of the conversation claimed that Blair had talked the president out of a raid, but Lord Goldsmith, the attorney-general, has banned newspapers from publishing details under the Official Secrets Act. The White House dismissed the report as “outlandish”.

The Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad detailed 34 instances of alleged hype and distortion by the television station from April 8-13, ranging from reports of a helicopter and fighter plane being shot down to stories about American soldiers killing and mutilating Iraqi citizens.

In 2001, after the September 11 attacks, the Pentagon awarded the Rendon Group, a public affairs firm, a $16.7m contract to monitor media in the Islamic world. It was assigned to track “the location and use of Al-Jazeera news bureaux, reporters and stringers”, and was asked to “identify the biases of specific journalists and potentially obtain an understanding of their allegiances”.

More: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article597096.ece

Irony of all ironies, here's Faux themselves reporting on it...

Rumsfeld: Al-Jazeera Is Causing Deaths
Friday, February 06, 2004

In the interview with the European journalists, Rumsfeld also blasted the Arab satellite TV network al-Jazeera (search).

"We are being hurt by al-Jazeera in the Arab world," he said. "There is no question about it. The quality of the journalism is outrageous - inexcusably biased - and there is nothing you can do about it except try to counteract it." He said it was turning Arabs against the United States.

"You could say it causes the loss of life," he added. "It's causing Iraqi people to be killed" by enflaming anti-American passions and encouraging attacks against Iraqis who assist the Americans, he added.

From: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110643,00.html


The American MSM sure does have a short term memory problem!

[ihavenobias]

36. Thanks for all the info. n/t

[slay]

34. Great post ihavenobias

K&R for Cenk and TYT.

[LWolf]

35. "Stay of FOX?"

Why would I be "on" FOX to begin with?

[burning rain]

37. k &

r

[CherylK]

39. Bump!

:kick: