Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.

[madfloridian]

I am thinking the development of this charter school movement under our new Democratic administration is moving along perhaps too quickly.

There are so many unasked and unanswered questions about turning over public taxpayer money to deregulated schools. It is reminding me now of a kind of runaway train that no one can stop.

Yet no one really understands all the ramifications of what is happening.

Charter schools will open this fall where some Catholic schools once stood in the Archdiocese of Miami.

From The Florida Catholic

And so, the Archdiocese of Miami will begin its experiment with charter schools this fall. What was intended as a pilot program at one parish – Corpus Christi in Wynwood – will become, for financial reasons, the norm at seven more. Charters also will open in August where five other Catholic schools closed this June: Sacred Heart, Our Lady of Divine Providence in Sweetwater, St. Francis Xavier in Overtown, St. Stephen in Miramar and St. Clement in Fort Lauderdale.

A seventh charter will open at St. Malachy in Tamarac, which opted to close its school before its financial situation deteriorated further. And an eighth charter will open in Miami Gardens, in the building used by St. Monica School until it closed in May 2008.

Charter schools are free, funded by public dollars, so religion cannot be taught during the school day. Unlike traditional public schools, however, charter schools operate independently of the local school board and have more leeway in managing day-to-day operations.

Because the parishes are leasing their former school buildings to the charter schools, they are deriving income from the properties. The amount ranges between $150,000 and $350,000 this first year, “depending on the size, capacity and condition of the facilities,” according to Fernando Zulueta, president of Academica, a company that provides management and support services for most of the charter schools opening on archdiocesan properties.

It is happening in Washington DC also.

Catholic Schools Go Charter to Survive

Every morning, students at the Trinidad campus of Center City Public Charter Schools in Washington, D.C., line up on the pavement outside the school — girls in plaid jumpers, boys in navy slacks and white shirts. Hands on their chests, they recite the school’s mission:

"The Center City Public Charter Schools empower our children for success through a rigorous academic program and strong character education while challenging students to pursue personal excellence in character, conduct and scholarship in order to develop the skills necessary to both serve and lead others in the 21st century."

It’s not the Lord’s Prayer, but it will have to do. Decidedly devoid of godliness, the children’s chant is an attempt by the school to replace one element of the religious education it used to impart. Trinidad is one of seven financially-troubled Catholic schools in the District of Columbia that converted to charter schools last fall in order to save them from being permanently shuttered.

The price for losing its religion is complicated. On one hand, the charter structure brought with it several thousand dollars more per student than the Archdiocese of Washington was able to provide, and it offered a guaranteed place for Holy Name’s former students and teachers.

It appears in both situations that the school personnel will remain the same.

It also appears that the National Catholic Education Association is not very happy about these new developments.

Charter Schools are Not the Salvation of Catholic Schools

Writing in the September issue of NCEA Notes, NCEA President Karen Ristau dispels the notion that a Catholic charter school is a possibility. "Catholic school leaders must be very clear about the difference between charter schools and the goals and aims of Catholic education," she wrote.

While explaining that charter schools were created to allow parents and educators the opportunity to explore innovative teaching methods and curriculum with autonomy, charter schools clearly remain "public schools, funded by public tax money," Ristau said. "These schools provide parental choice in the local public school system, which typically offers few options to parents." She added, "Charter schools may not teach religion or display any religious symbols; they may not allow prayer or religious activities. Students may sing songs about reindeers and Santa, but not about silent nights and the baby Jesus."

On the other hand, "Catholic schools are, and must remain, places where faith and culture are intertwined in all areas, places of excellent secular and religious education. The Catholic faith is an integral part of the daily life of the school; the environment is permeated by faith and gospel values."

Although financial distress may lead to the closing of a Catholic school and the opening of a charter school in the same location, "there must be no doubt that the resulting school is not a Catholic school," the educational leader continued. "Secular values may be the foundation of the school's charter, but they cannot be informed by faith and Catholic teaching." Ristau noted that, "following the creation of a charter school, many of the school personnel and students from the closed Catholic school may remain, but the original Catholic mission will be eroded as a direct result of the secular nature of the school. Over time, as new students and faculty enter the charter school, this erosion will continue."

I have many reservations about taxpayer money being used in any way other than supporting traditional public schools. I simply can not imagine having no say about any issue for which my taxes are being used.

My concerns unfortunately are not shared by this administration.

[Taverner]

1. Jeb fucked that state up beyond belief

[madfloridian]

12. His goal was charter schools. That probably made it easy to get them

without a hassle.

[joeycola]

23. Arne Duncan is pushing charter schools all over the US while the media

focuses on health reform!!

[BrklynLiberal]

42. The choiceof Arne Duncan for Secty Education was VERY disappointing.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

3. Don't worry, they have no interest in having symbols important to them

desecrated by bigots or anyone else.

[demosincebirth]

4. Well said!

[madfloridian]

6. I think I am glad I missed that.

[damntexdem]

5. Will they follow a charter Pope?

Jus askin.

[madfloridian]

7. My post is not criticism of Catholics...It is critique of a flawed system

of education.

It does not call for rude remarks.

[SoCalDem]

8. Sounds a lot like what happened to all the religious order-run hospitals

we used to have..
For the parents of the kids who have been paying tuition to these schools... the ones with large families..this will be a blessing to them

Of course now, the public system will be strained further..:(

[madfloridian]

9. It's a very strange situation.

Taxpayer money will stretch only so far, especially in FL with the all the anti-tax Republicans running the state.

It's worrisome.

[Hannah Bell]

14. hell if i'll pay taxes to support religious schools. i don't live in florida,

but i hope someone gets a clue.

religious fights over tax money, all sorts of bad shit coming.

[madfloridian]

15. I know what you are saying.

Tax money being used to rescue the religious schools. I can highly respect the schools but not want my taxes used for it.

[JDPriestly]

22. The Catholic Church relied on nuns who took vows of poverty

and worked for next to nothing most of their lives. With women's lib, the nunnery became a less attractive profession for women. Why work for nothing when they could have the same job satisfaction and sense of purpose and earn money and live independently.

So, this is a good use for buildings that were useful for a similar purpose for educational institutions that imploded due to social changes.

Still, I do not like charter schools. They are just an excuse to break the teachers' unions. I would like charter schools if the teachers in them would organize and if they were judged and assessed by the same criteria as public schools, namely objective tests. Also, the requirements for teachers in charter schools should be the same as for those in public schools.

[madfloridian]

24. Good use of buildings, but not good use of taxpayer money IMO

There are so few regulations on charter schools, and they are hurriedly and haphazardly giving our money out in huge amounts.

[edc]

33. In the name of the money,

and the money and the money. Amen.

"Because the parishes are leasing their former school buildings to the charter schools, they are deriving income from the properties. The amount ranges between $150,000 and $350,000 this first year..."

These properties will revert to church use after hours. Left unsaid is any possible non-educational connection between the diocese and the charter schools.

[madfloridian]

35. It boggles my mind.

Why are more people not really irate about this intersection of religion and schools and taxpayer money? We are rescuing religious schools with our taxes.

[anonymous171]

28. Monks take vows of poverty too.

In an ideal world, work would not be about money.

[SoCalDem]

30. I have a good friend who teaches at a Catholic school here

and has for almost 25 years.. She says that there have not been any nuns for a very long time, and there has always been a awaiting list for enrollees, so I don't think it's a "cheap teacher" problem.

It could just be that the church (in some areas) may just be happier to collect rent, than to continue with the responsibility, and since many of the kids already there would probably stay, they can just switch to "after-school" activities for the religious education. It could also be that as the building age and become more costly to maintain, they were ready to turn over that expense to "someone else".

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

10. Bloomberg is doing this in New York.

"In New York, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg unveiled a plan last month to transform four Catholic schools in Brooklyn and Queens into charters, which are publicly financed but independently operated. In San Antonio, a major charter school operator is lobbying the archdiocese to consider charters if it is forced to close schools.

For Catholic schools on the brink of closing, there is much to like about the idea: an infusion of public dollars that translates into increases in teacher salaries and per-student spending, freedom to shape an independent curriculum and the ability to attract families that cannot afford tuition.

But a close look at Washington’s first six months under the new system shows some of the complexities that lie ahead if Mr. Bloomberg’s proposal goes through.

Teachers who for decades were shielded from the bureaucratic particulars of the public education system now find themselves overwhelmed with mandates to track grades electronically, administer frequent tests and analyze data to tailor instruction. And many veterans of the old schools say there is a noticeable emptiness in classrooms and hallways: Students miss the moments they came together for prayer, they say, and teachers wish they could sometimes get a little guidance from the Bible.

Many here are grappling with a question of mission: Is it possible to impart centuries-old values of Catholic education without crossing the line between church and state?"

Secular Education, Catholic Values

[madfloridian]

11. "KIPP (charter) is the new Catholic School"....no excuses” model based on catholic schools.

The writer is speaking of the zero or low tolerance model of teaching.

Catholic schools go charter

"“Anybody with three or four brain cells to rub together knows that charter schools have had an effect on Catholic schools, and it hasn’t always been positive,” said Stanton, even as she defended the conversion of her schools as the only reasonable alternative to their closure.

Across the nation, it is difficult to put a number on how many students Catholic schools have lost to new charter schools in their districts, since dioceses do not track where students who leave their schools have gone. Anecdotal evidence, though, points to the idea that charter schools are drawing some of their populations away from Catholic schools. And the competition seems obvious: When charter schools are offering for free the academic and disciplinary environment of Catholic schools, some of the mostly non-Catholic population of those areas would likely choose charters.

“I can’t tell you how many people come up to me and say ‘KIPP is the new Catholic School,’” said Scott Hamilton, one of the early developers of the Knowledge Is Power Program, a nationwide chain of charter schools known for running high-performing schools in traditionally low-performing, low-income, minority neighborhoods. In many ways, KIPP provides the alternative to traditional public schools that was once only provided by Catholic schools in those neighborhoods: an environment of strict discipline, a focus on academic success, a strong school culture, and a values-based curriculum. Many charters have emulated KIPP’s “no excuses” model, which the founders freely admit was based in part on the Catholic model."

I would like to add that charters did probably affect Catholic schools, but they are having a huge impact on public schools as well. They take students from both, but they are taking money and resources from public schools.

I wish there were more oversight, more noting the fact that sometimes there is no going back to what you lose in hurry-up fashion.

[Hannah Bell]

13. churches cashing in on that government money? shocker.

i've always supported paying local assessmentss, even though i don't have kids.

i think i won't anymore if this trend continues.

[defendandprotect]

16. RCC is being investigated for possibily using "faith-based" $ for their pedophile lawsuits--!!!

Agree -- taxpayer $ should only go to public schools --

and we've got to get Congress to reverse what Bush did.

Also, we should cut out the crap with the Ambassador to the Vatican started
in the Reagan years!

[Sancho]

17. I've heard that some local Catholic schools are out of $'s...

and they don't want to raise tuition, so this is a way to get the state to pay for the school. Some of us have been warning about the "charter" trick for years. I thought it was clearly against the Fl Constitution - does anyone know if there are more court challenges?

[madfloridian]

19. They say they will not be religious schools anymore....that would circumvent constitution.

Yes, I have heard it would happen. There seems to be no control over charters now by anyone...not by county, not by state, and the DOE is encouraging them. :shrug:

[placton]

18. Another example of Obama's waaaaaay

right of center ideas. He truly was a stealth candidate. Public schools are screwed by charters. it's that simple. And the Sec of Ed left behind a disaster in Chicago.

[Toasterlad]

20. Wrong Place

[Toasterlad]

21. Maybe If the Vatican Would Sell Off Some of the Largest Fucking Art Collection in the World...

...they could afford to keep some of their indoctrination camps open.

No sympathy for catholics from THIS catholic school survivor.

[Vidar]

25. Jeb Bush should have been hanged for treason.

[joeycola]

26. David Brooks is happy with arne -and so are many Repugs...........

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/opinion/23brooks.html?em

[madfloridian]

27. Jeb and Newt are ecstatic over him.

They are seeing their long time plans for education coming true.

[joeycola]

29. True and the Obama adm is helping them!!

[Libertas1776]

31. My god, we're becoming Canada!

and not in a good way.

[madfloridian]

32. AU says this kind of transition is a national trend. Now Islamic and Jewish schools may try it.

From Americans United for Separation of Church and State:

http://blog.au.org/2009/10/23/conversion-anxiety-parochialtocharterschool-transitions-spark-concern/

"The Florida parochial/charter move is part of a national trend. Similar transitions have taken place with Catholic schools in the District of Columbia, New York and Texas. Islamic, Jewish and fundamentalist Christian leaders in some communities are trying the same thing.

The Obama administration is pressing hard for a proliferation of charter schools around America. This push should be accompanied by clear rules upholding the separation of church and state."

Someone needs to step in and monitor this thing.

[madfloridian]

40. More concerns from AU...

"Will priests and other church officials have an ongoing relationship with the students at the charter school? Will statuary, crucifixes and other religious emblems be removed from the school classrooms and grounds?

Many churches include provisions in property leases that forbid any activity that contravenes denominational teachings. Will instruction about reproductive issues or HIV prevention in health classes be based on sound scientific and medical research or will it be revised to conform to Catholic doctrine?"

http://blog.au.org/2009/10/23/conversion-anxiety-parochialtocharterschool-transitions-spark-concern/

[madfloridian]

34. Widespread practice apparently. Muslim school threatens to sue Dept. of Education

"Muslim school threatens to sue Dept. of Education

MINNEAPOLIS — A Minnesota charter school that educates Muslim students is threatening to sue the Minnesota Department of Education for defamation.

A lawyer for Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy alleges in a letter to Education Commissioner Alice Seagren that her deputy commissioner told a Star Tribune reporter this month that the department is investigating lease aid payments from the state to the school. Lawyer Erick Kaardal says no one at the school itself was notified of an investigation.

State aid to the school, which has sites in Blaine and Inver Grove Heights, has come under scrutiny after allegations it allowed TiZA to use taxpayer money to illegally promote religion.

Education Department spokeswoman Christine Dufour says the department will not respond because officials have not yet seen the letter and no lawsuit has yet been filed."

http://tzvee.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-much-religion-can-public-charter.html

Naive me again. I did not know it was going on.

And more, Jewish schools becoming charter as well.

http://njjewishnews.com/justASC/2009/10/07/charter-schools-public-funding-private-purposes/

"The current issue of PresenTense, a magazine devoting to “fostering innovation” in Jewish life, has a piece on Hebrew-language charter schools, written before the third such school was approved for E. Brunswick. Basic overview of the movement, with an interesting quote from Diane Ravitch, professor of education at New York University. She opposes the concept, saying public schools are meant to “advance public purposes” — and not “the teaching of a single non-American culture.”

Here she elaborates in a Daily News oped from January:

We don’t send children to public schools to learn to be Chinese or Russian or Greek or Korean. We send them to learn to be Americans.

Our public authorities have forgotten that the public pays for public schools to advance public purposes. Among those purposes are: teaching kids their rights and responsibilities as American citizens; teaching them to live and work with others of different cultural backgrounds; and preparing them for higher education and for the modern workplace, where people of diverse backgrounds interact.

Read the whole thing after the jump.

I am deeply impressed by the philanthropy of financial whiz Michael Steinhardt, but totally baffled by the decision of the New York State Board of Regents to approve his proposal to open a publicly funded Hebrew Language Academy Charter School in Brooklyn."

[2Design]

36. I expect it is just more union breaking and making low salaries for

teachers - I don't expect this will be good for public schools or our nations kids

[madfloridian]

37. It is not good for public schools at all. It is their death knell.

I am glad I am retired. But it is sad to see this happen.

[Toasterlad]

38. And Yet They Could Come Up With $550,000 to Repeal Same-Sex Marriage in Maine.

I hope I live to see the day when this bigoted, ignorant, vile, EVIL institution finally dies.

[madfloridian]

39. I did not know that. I can not blame you for your anger.

[BrklynLiberal]

43. I cannot help but wonder how much they invested in the CA campaign to

stop same-sex marriage?

[BrklynLiberal]

41. Totallly an attempt to undermine public education and that is our TAX money that is being used for

this movement ....

[madfloridian]

44. Yes, an effort to undermine public education using our taxpayer money.

.