Too many fucking people

[Taverner]

Seriously - I could attribute 90% of our problems to this fact. Why do we behave erratically? Why do we murder? Why do we steal? Why do we senselessly murder 30+ innocent people (and I beleive all victims are innocent)?

Too many fucking people.

Ever see rats cornered? They tear each other apart.

Ever go crabbing? the more crabs you have in a bucket, the more likely they stay there, since they pull each other down when they try to get out.


Same thing here.

Now this is an oversimplification, but I also think I'm onto something here. If anything, statistically if there were less people the whackjob gunman would have murdered less (less people to shoot.)

Sigh...

I will never understand our species. Or maybe I already do, all too well...

[ORDagnabbit]

1. yep. but until the plague hits were stuck with each other. :)

[Mandate My Ass]

2. or maybe not enough people fucking

Some peeps get downright ornery when they ain't gettin' none. :evilgrin:

[JuniperLea]

3. Not over simplified at all!

I think you are spot on the money!

I was listening to the radio this morning when the host asked why we are seeing so much more violence these days, as it was different "when we were kids". Well, more people, more violent acts. Add overpopulation, horrid economy, world leaders hell bent for destruction... that cocktail will knock you on your ass!

Overpopulation kills.






Edited to add my favorite 70's poster~!

[Taverner]

5. I mean think statistically

More people means more nutjobs. More psychopaths. It only takes one psychopath to pull a Columbine.

[JuniperLea]

8. Exactomundo, Taverner...

The percentage stays the same even when the numbers fluctuate.

[damntexdem]

4. Actually, when they're doing that ...

they're very seldom shooting large numbers of people.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Human beings are a plague on the earth. No more/no less.

[Lex]

7. Unlike in the Middle Ages where they hardly tore each other apart at all.

Travelling miles on horse and by foot to make it to people to tear apart.

:shrug:

[Taverner]

15. Mother Nature did a pretty good job of taking us out then

Consider that less people died at the hand of others back then.

[Schema Thing]

9. If that were true, Manhatten would be much more violent

than Texas. I'm not sure, but I don't think that is the case.

[Taverner]

13. To be honest, I think the Death Penalty and "tough on crime" attitude

Causes the crime in Texas...

[MadHound]

10. Yep, what you're thinking of is known as a behavioral sink

Overstress a population of whatever critter by putting more and more critters into a limited amount of space, stand back and watcht the fun start. They've done numerous experiments on this phenomenon with rats and other animals, and now the world has become a huge lab for this behavior to play out for humans.

[Forkboy]

12. Just wait another 20 years for the fun to really start!

How many billions by then? :nuke:

[Robson]

28. From 2 Billion to 6 Billion in 50 years

I'd say we're headed for trouble.

The politics that drives us to over populate are driven by business and religious. Business thinks they need a constantly increasing supply of customers. Religions need a constantly increasing supply of believers hence their opposition to birth control and abortion.

The Chinese were smart enough at the time to recognize their country couldn't feed the exploding population and they needed to contain their growth rate. Greed and club for growth being a basic function of corporate capitalists, I figure they'll be removing the birth restrictions when they finally take over China's government.

The world needs to adjust to a zero-growth policy so that we don't destroy ourselves.

[politicat]

11. Read Glassner's Fear.

We hear about it more -- but in terms of real violence, it's trending down. The media makes a mint off of covering big bads, though, and scaring people makes them watch the news more, which increases advertising revenue, which makes them cover more big bads.

Crime stats are dropping. There were mass murders in every decade of the past 200 years; the big difference is a) they weren't reported the same way, and b) they were often government sanctioned.

[slackmaster]

14. Brother brother, there's too many of you.

:nuke:

[Arugula Latte]

16. On the other hand, you take a population like Japan's, which

has some of the highest-density living on the planet...Their culture has evolved to accommodate that situation and they have very little violent crime.

On the other hand (good thing I have two hands) I agree that overpopulation is a huge problem on so many levels.

[Gregorian]

17. There's just one problem with this post.

First, I agree. I've been watching in amazement for the longest time. Well, since we reached 4 billion.


The people who made this mess are dead, for the most part. My grandmother had 11 children. Her kids had four or five each.

The people who are here can't do anything. They've done their thing already.

The people we need to talk to aren't born yet.



It's a hit and run problem. There's a time lag. It's insidious. Many people are oblivious to it. It's what I call the "me syndrome". It's time to think in terms of "we". In other words, who am I affecting. Other people want a life too. Other people need to breath this air too.




You're brave to post this. I tried it once, and never will again. Everything from how dare you, to oh, there's no problem. It's all in your mind. Get a life. So, good for you. I want more of this discussion. My life is over, basically. But those who come after me will thank me for not breeding. And you too.

[Taverner]

20. I still hold out a candle for the human race

And I don't advocate a plague, or a die-off (although I fear one is coming - and if it does I will do all I can to preserve as many lives as possible.)

What frustrates me is that we know the train is coming. We stand like a deer in its headlights, and its headed right for us.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

18. Another Reason To Hate Religious Right Wing Repubs

They glorify life, and want to outlaw abortion. Overpopulate the planet, that's their goal.

[frogcycle]

19. read Parson Thomas Malthus'

Essay on the Principles of Population as It Affects the Future Improvement of Society (1798)

summary: Human population will grow exponentially until it crashes.

So far the world is pretty much on track with his predictions.

Like deer overpopulating the forests, we will eventually exterminate ourselves. Only question is whether it will be a "correction" or a "mass extinction." I vote for the latter - the world would be a far, far better place. I expect every species other than dogs would agree. And maybe rats and pigeons. And bedbugs.

[Taverner]

21. I read Malthus

He's spot on.

Unless we can plateau and then reduce to a workable population, we will correct. And corrections won't be pretty.

The problem is that those who do the most damage (us) will not be the first to die. Not that I want us to die - but this leads to a correction until we're the last ones left and/or we make this place unlivable.

[Double T]

22. YOU are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.............

Overpopulation is destroying this planet faster than anything else. Homo sapiens are inherently destructive creatures, but when there are 6.5 billion destructive creatures residing on the same relatively small planet it can ONLY lead to one thing; all hell breaking loose. It will ONLY become much worse in the near future.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. Our world is doomed

I don't mean that either the world or Humankind is going to perish soon, I mean that our era is going to end, probably soon.

The end of the era will probably come with mass death. Many parts of the world may simply be empty in twenty, fifty, a hundred years. We talk about such issues on the DU Energy/Enviro Forum, but they never go anywhere. Who really wants to throw in the towel?

So 30-some people died in a mass murder yesterday. There are five or six billion people in this world destined for premature and miserable death. I do not lack sympathy for Mr. Cho's victims, or even Mr. Cho himself, though in perspective, it does seem hopeless.

But the human race will continue. Phylogeny is longer than history.

--p!

[JackRiddler]

24. Please don't spout off in advance of empirical examination...

"In the decade of Darfur and Iraq, and shortly after the century of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, the claim that violence has been diminishing may seem somewhere between hallucinatory and obscene. Yet recent studies that seek to quantify the historical ebb and flow of violence point to exactly that conclusion..."

A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE by Steven Pinker
http://edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

BACK TO ME:

I am not an optimist. I believe in enlightened population control. I think civilization is in a form of moral and intellectual decline, that capitalism long ago turned into cannibalism, that our species has brought itself to the brink of ecological disaster, and that a war and a set of man-made disasters may yet come to dwarf all prior historical devastations combined.

Nevertheless, your central statement, relating all this to the current big story, is simply untrue. All empirical examinations show that death by violence per capita has been falling consistently for decades - that means murder and war, includes Iraq and Rwanda and all of it, and also includes lone-nut mass murders.

There is nothing unusual about some dork going crazy and trying to massacre everyone around him at random with whatever tools were available. It's been happening all along. Just because yesterday's dork in Virginia set a new record for the number of victims, thanks to the combo of weapons and surprise (and probably from learning some tips from media coverage of prior dorks, not to mention a measure of luck), it marks absolutely nothing new. It does not signify a new degeneration in the larger culture. It is not necessarily tied to a rise in mental illness or divine wrath. It's certainly not a function of population density -- or the rate of such attacks would be a lot higher in Japan than in the exurban areas of the United States, when exactly the opposite is the case.

It would be a lot more logical for you to conclude that suburban, wealthy, predominantly white-christian industrial automotive culture with LOW population density caused yesterday's massacre. That wouldn't be true, but it wouldn't be as wrong as what you've written. (As someone who lives in a high-density mixed-cultural environment and likes it, I have a serious problem with the kind of reactionary bullshit you peddle in the OP.)

[earth mom]

25. This country is fast becoming overpopulated.

I lived smack dab in the middle of a perfect example overpopulation and overcrowding when I lived in Southern California-and that was almost 10 years ago! IMNSHO, it's not good for people to be so crowded, not to mention it's just about destroying the middle and working class. I've NEVER seen so much road rage and yes, felt so much road rage, as on the streets of Southern California. :yoiks:

[ecstatic]

26. From what I've read, the killer may have been happier in a remote log cabin somewhere

in the mountains. He seemed to really be disgusted by people in general.

[RC]

27. Between over population and Global Warming it's going

to get very nasty.

[porphyrian]

29. Actually, the problem is too many people living on too small a percentage of the planet.

Many "overpopulation" problems could be solved by simply spreading out rather than clustering around urban centers.

Another thing we could do is to stop treating the earth and its resources as permanent, regardless of how we treat it/them.

Reducing the population is only one solution, and it isn't necessarily the best one.