Regarding the planned Phelps protests of the VT funerals:

[smoogatz]

Unfortunately for moderate and progressive Christians, rampant fundie assholery does kind of make the whole religion look stupid and destructive, at least to me as an outsider. It's not just Phelps--it's the whole big, greasy public face of American Christianity, from Robertson to Falwell to Haggard to Swaggart to David Koresh, on down the line. One fleshy, red-faced, self-aggrandizing, pompous, bloviating, moralizing, sanctimonious douchebag exploiter-of-the-stupid after another. That's pretty much what non-Christians see: intolerance, ignorance, bigotry, and self-delusion. Now, I know the great majority of Christians aren't like that (at least I want to believe they aren't). But where's the public face of progressive Christianity? Why aren't you guys on TV?

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Our story is tougher to sell.

Not a lot of bloviating, moralizing, sanctimonious bullshit going on when you are feeding the homeless in a soup kitchen. No one wants to see that.

But, you bring up a very good point. Thanks.

[INDIA]

2. There are many comparisons between fundamentalist Xtianity and Fundy islam.

Indeed, the right wing Assholes like Robertson and Falwell get the camera times, much like the wacky imans do in the ME. All while the silent moderate majority keeps mostly quiet.

BIG DIFF: Christians aren't violent in the way fundamentalist Muslims are. That make guy like Falwell FAR less culpable than idiots like Sadr.

And BTW, When your church number around 40 and is made up of your own family members, I don't think you are a good representative of the religion overall. And I doubt ANY Christian groups in this country, fundamentalist or not, have supported Fred Phelps in any way shape or form.

[smoogatz]

4. He's getting money from somebody.

Anyway, your initial point is irrelevant. I wasn't talking about Islam, which obviously has its own problems. I was talking about Christians and the current state of American Christianity. If I was a Christian, I'd be pretty pissed off about what was being done and said in the name of my religion in this country.

[INDIA]

8. I do also wonder where that money comes from.

Although I doubt they have any sympathizers in Fundamentalist Christianity. Phelps has called Bush a "bloody war tyrant", and his supporters routinely desicrate the flag, that won't get you much support from most fundies here in America.

I dunno about your other point. I'm kindof a non-practicing Christian, and I absolutely fail to see how 40 wackos in Kansas represent me in any way shape or form. Now guys with real followings like Robertson and Falwell are a different story. I think a lot of it has to do with the emotional zeal of their folowers.

A lot of "eh, I guess I'm Christian" guys like myself are the moderates, who are favorable to gay marriage, and go to church twice a year. It would be tough for a moderate voice to rise to prominence when his supporters (like me) are lazy and apathetic.

The most emotionally involved and intense follow the Robertsons, hence the $$, power, and camera time they get.

[meldroc]

12. I can tell you where he gets at least some of his money...

Many of the members of the Phelps clan are lawyers. When they do their little protests, and they're harassed, assaulted, whatever, they sue people. They have years of experience in gaming the court system and extracting thousands of dollars from people for each incident.

So, if you confront these slimebags, do not harass them, threaten them, assault them or touch them - they've got video cameras recording everything you do, and if you do anything illegal, they'll nail your ass to the wall.

[Wickerman]

11. Most Christians are pissed at the freakshows like Phelps and the Robertsons

But, what do you do? Mainstream religion gets zero airtime (and no reason to complain about that, I guess) while the shockjock equivalent gets all the time they want.

Over-reaction and and over-reaching here at DU spells a huge intolerance of even the most mainstream of religions. Try searching and see how people here have responded to Speaking of Faith. It's an NPR weekly on the discussion of religion. It advocates no strong points, but simply discusses the varying theological stances present in today's society. THose who detest religion have ravaged the program and NPR for it simply being aired. I find it an enlightening perspective on why so many turn to religion and which ones.

If you have an answer to the Phelps problem please present it and that solved, perhaps religion will go back into the personal box that will no longer disturb those who don't desire to hear it.

[Kajsa]

3. We don't shove our spiritual beliefs down other people's throats.

That makes us unnoticed.

To the best of my knowledge the ones on TV are the Fundies.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[AuntPatsy]

5. Not sorry that I am full agreement.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. Those Who Would Cast Opinion On Christianity Based On Those Exceptions Are Narrow Minded, Foolish

and ignorant.

[whistle]

7. May I quote what you wrote here? To me what you have laid out

....is a clear visual of American Fascistic Christianity !

<snip>
Chris Hedges on “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America”
February 19, 2007 - 10:11pm — David Herron

Chris Hedges on “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America” is a very stunning interview about the role of fascistic thinking in America, that has subverted the Christian Right, and is threatening to turn the U.S.A. into a Theocracy. Our founding fathers must be spinning in their graves.

He is the author of American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America

There is likely confusion over this idea that Fascism is threatening to take over the U.S.A. After all, the Fascists were defeated in World War II weren't they? Hmm...

Fascism is just a political strategy just like Terrorism is just a military (and political) strategy. Both strategies can be employed by different people and groups. One need not be a Nazi to be a Fascist, just as one need not be al Qaeda to be a Terrorist. Oh, and one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

In any case back to the interview.

Chris Hedges says his book came from anger at the perversion of Christian theology "into something that is the very antithesis of certainly what Jesus preached in the Gospels". He describes a group of people who have taken over fundamental christianity and steered it into political activism with the goal of establishing some kind of Christian state. They must not have read the U.S. Constitution or otherwise ignored the part guaranteeing separation of Church and State.
<MORE>

http://www.7gen.com/blog-entry/chris-hedges-american-fascists-christian-right-and-war-america/2243

[jwirr]

9. You are correct when you say that is what the world sees. The

fundies and bizarre idiots have done more to destroy Christianity than any "evil" enemy. There are very few churches left that still teach the faith that was so strong in the past.

[Forkboy]

10. My father is more and more into religion since his mother died a couple years ago.

And I ask him about this too.Not so much why they aren't on television,I know the answer to that one (Hint: Peace doesn't sell).But it does seem that there could be other ways to show the liberal side of religion more effectively.

I know people here on DU get offended by these comparisons to people like that,and it isn't fair.But that is the public face of the religion they espouse,and fairly or not it does reflect on them,just like the skinheads reflected on punk back in the day.I hated that too. :)

[AnneD]

13. It doesn't sell, unless it's Christmas...

we do not seek attention for our good deeds, poor people are not photogenic, hookers and recovering drug addicts and single moms don't vote....

There are good Christians, mature enough in their faith that they don't fear non Christians (they may try to convert you, but your faith won't stop them from helping you). They realize that by challenging their faith, you strengthen their faith. They realize that when you check into the church, you don't leave your mind and reason on the outside steps.

Our tiny, senior filled church has continued to give more in every way possible, to all comers. We don't collect money to pay for a bigger church and broadcast services-but we run a pantry. You never know it unless you come in to our church. Very packed Sunday schools start at 9:30 (lots of coffee and breakfast now and then) and services at 11:00. Best time in my week. But this won't ever make it to TV I guess. We aren't funda-mental enough for the preconceived notions about what a Christian is.

[Breeze54]

14. They're busy protesting the war in Iraq and the MSM is ignoring them!

100 Leading Christian Ethicists Oppose Iraq War

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.ethicists_statement

The Bush Administration asserts that there is a compelling moral case for a preemptive war against Iraq.
Yet over 100 leading Christian ethicists in America disagree. These ethicists have signed a statement
expressing their view that no such compelling case has been made. Both pacifists and advocates
of the just war ethic have signed this simple statement:

"As Christian ethicists we share a common moral presumption against a preemptive war on Iraq by the United States."

List of Signers follows........

Christians protest against 'theological justification' of Iraq war

By staff writers

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/4896

21 Mar 2007

Thousands of Christians braved frigid temperatures, icy conditions and on 16 March 2007
to protest in Washington DC against the Iraq war - with some 200 facing arrest, as previously
reported on Ekklesia.

The event was backed by people from a whole range of churches, but was not without controversy.
And one young speaker publicly apologised for the 'war theology' that some of his fellow
evangelicals and Baptists had used to back the action of the Bush government.

Robert Marus of the Associated Baptist News (www.abpnews.com) in the US reports:

The "Christian Peace Witness for Iraq" began with a service at Washington National Cathedral
and ended with about 200 protesters being arrested in front of the White House. It kicked off
a weekend of demonstrations marking the four-year anniversary of the war, which has resulted
in the deaths of more than 3,000 American military personnel and thousands of Iraqi military
and civilians.

More.........


============================

snip-->

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.cpw&item=cpw_civil_disobedience

As the violence in Iraq escalates, the Christian Peace Witness for Iraq is organizing
nonviolent civil disobedience to publicly say that Jesus calls us to love our enemies
and to repent of our complicity with a nation which relies on violence rather than right
relationships. Like the Old Testament prophets who spoke truth to power, we prophetically
urge the nation and its leaders to end the U.S. occupation in Iraq and to support a just
and peaceful resolution.

[HockeyMom]

15. Even the right wing Freepers don't agree with Phelps

so who supports him? Leave these poor peole alone with their grief.

I am sure 99.9% of America will support that.