This thing where Randi likens MSNBC to Fox is pissing me off.

[BuyingThyme]

MSNBC, and Olbermann specifically, is generally supportive of a constitutional democracy. Maybe even supportive of a liberal constitutional democracy; I don't really know.

Fox is generally supportive of fascism. They truly believe that a few people in government should make all decisions regarding the way people have sex, the way women plan their lives, what laws are followed, which people should be tortured and murdered, what government activities should be conducted in secret. They truly believe that their leaders are above the law.

How is it that Randi has come to view a liberal version of Americanism the same way she views the Fox version of fascism?

[Puglover]

1. Randi is being Randi.

IMHO trying to promote herself as above it all. Just wanting facts, and no spin. It is sounding pretty hollow as far as I'm concerned.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peace13]

3. Other than Rachel and Keith MSNBC = garbage.

You obviously have not had the honor of watching it during the day. I agree with Randi.

[BuyingThyme]

5. Randi uses Olbermann to make her point that they're the same.

[debbierlus]

4. Turn her off. Randi is just not the same person she once was...

I don't know exactly what has happened with her, but she is not the same Randi that I used to listen to...

Too bad.

[BuyingThyme]

8. I know she sold her views about 9/11 when she signed the latest contract,

but I also know that she's as smart as hell.

[ginnyinWI]

18. she's been puzzling for a while.

When I was listening to her a few years ago--hm it must be four or five years ago--she'd say things like "I'm no longer a Democrat" and then a month later she'd be a "loyal Democrat". She's been all over the place, not making sense, I got so tired of her three-hour long rants on the same subject that I had to call it quits.

I listen to XM radio's POTUS during the day, and NPR, and sometimes C-SPAN radio. No more rants, please. I used to listen to Ed Schultz but I'm totally turned off of him because of his shouting. I'm only asking for civil discourse.

[hlthe2b]

22. Randi is very insecure--always was and her bravada is meant

to cover for that insecurity. She's internalized a lot of the poor treatment (both real and perceived) she's received over the years. Sadly, this is a very bad combination.

[ClusterFreak]

6. MSNBC = Left-leaning P.O.V. Fox = Lie factory

No likening to be done there, Randi.

So get a fucking grip.

[Sebastian Doyle]

28. And even saying MSNBC has a "left leaning P.O.V." is an exaggeration

Keith's show is the only one mostly "left-leaning". Rachel and Ed themselves are left of center (Rachel more so than Ed) but both of them have regular right wing "panelists" on their shows. And Tweety.... well saying he's on our side at all is a bit of a stretch some days.

And even that much is only 4 hours out of a 24 hour day (not counting reruns)

Moron Joe and his sidekick Z-big's daughter aren't Liberals.

Mrs. Greenspan ain't a liberal. Nor is Whora O'Donnell or whomever else might be on their midday news coverage.

[ClusterFreak]

37. Well...

What about Dr. Nancy...she isn't right wing at all...she's left of center...

So is Ratigan (especially Ratigan), Shuster, Tamron Hall, and I'd suggest that Brewer, Novotny and Alex Witt are at the very least centrist if not left leaning. Not courageously so, but still and all I'd call them more progressive than not.

So perhaps I'm not exaggerating. Plus...Ed, Keith and Rachel are hardcore progressives...not just left-leaning. Tweety blows with the wind, so he's whatever.... Scarborough is right of center, sometimes more rabid than at other times, sometimes closer to moderate...but, like Tweety, mostly a blowhard. Mika is simply an idiot.

I'd say Andrea Mitchell is fairly even-handed on the whole. That means sometimes she's on our side, other times not. Nora O'Donnell strikes me as that way too.

So....four out of 24 hours? Prime time is entirely hardcore progressive with KO and Rachel's show both rerun...and then overnight it's just that tabloid pap like Lockup...which is just pure sensationalist garbage.

That's why I suggest MSNBC is left leaning. What else would you call them?

:shrug:

[DireStrike]

63. How many of fox's primetime hours are devoted to right wingers?

The same amount as MSNBC devotes to left wingers, by your count. Possibly more, depending on how you define prime time.

And during the rest of the day, is MSNBC telling lies in service of ideology? Because Fox is.
Does MSNBC frequently make "errors" that always seem to favor a left wing viewpoint? Yeah, no.

How much of MSNBC's coverage is left leaning? Perhaps 60%? 70%, even? I don't think these figures are remotely correct, but just for the sake of argument let's say 70%.
How much of Fox's coverage is right leaning? 100% all day every day.


Also note how this trend mysteriously began after a Democrat won the white house. Before that, there were far less left voices on the network. Is this because the network is left leaning, and interested in pushing an agenda? Or are they perhaps trying to suck up?


Fox's agenda is apparent in every iota of everything they do. MSNBC might have more left-leaning anchors than right. There is a world of difference.

[The Gunslinger]

32. MSNBC is not left leaning..........

They have 3 hours of the left Ed, Keith and Rachel. They also have three hours of Scarboro. Just because the rightist MSM tells you MSNBC is left leaning doesn't mean it is. That's as bad as those who call CNN(the Lou Dobbs Network) liberal.

[BuyingThyme]

7. How did the second message in this thread get deleted within seconds of posting?

Is there an automated moderator?

[Dennis Donovan]

12. Robo-nuke 2000?

;)

[BuyingThyme]

15. I guess... It was gone instantly.

I never even saw it.

[Puglover]

16. LOL

I duped my message and deleted the dupe.

[BuyingThyme]

17. Oh, thanks.

:hi:

[Old and In the Way]

9. On any given issue, opposing sides cannot be telling the truth.

If not so, then the concept of truth is meaningless. Either Bush lied about the WMD or he didn't. Either CIA NOC's were outed or they weren't. Either Obama is a US citizen or he isn't. Etc,etc,etc. Over the years, I think it's pretty obvious which side informs and which side disinforms.

[BuyingThyme]

10. Amen.

[Dennis Donovan]

11. Randi's had a bug in her butt about KO for years now...

Nothing new...

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

13. Is Randi still going around rooting for Norm Coleman to win

and claiming Franken will be horrible senator because she 'knows things' that she can't share with us?

Randi works at Limbaugh's syndicate now with only a small fraction of her old audience. She drove off her listeners and got canned from AAR and NOVAM because of her ego and pettiness.

This MSNBC-bashing is more of the same from a bitter has-been who brought it all on herself.

It's a shame, because she could have been so much more.

[ginnyinWI]

19. she was on Lou Dobbs once, and raved about him.

what was that about? Granted he's taken a turn for the worse, but still--was she simply star-struck, or duped by his "charming" demeanor? Come on. I need a smarter person than that to interest me in listening.

[Winterblues]

14. While it is true that both Fox News and Rachel and Countdown have a real Bias

It is not true that they are the same. Fox News uses deception to further it's propaganda while Rachel and Countdown use the absolute truth..Rachel always asks her guests either Liberal or Conservative if she was factual in her introduction and report...I have yet to hear anyone say she was not. I have heard them say she has a slant whioch is obvious but she still says the truth. Fox News out and out LIES and in fact went to court over their Lieing and won. The Court says they have that right so they do it constantly..

[ginnyinWI]

20. the mere fact that she can get these guest to come on her show

speaks volumes. They know they will get a turn to speak. Some of them complain that she is sarcastic--ok, so what? Is that a crime? Some of these people need to hear it.

[WolverineDG]

21. still jealous that she didn't get Rachel's spot

but with the constant "Keith steals all my stuff" rants, what did she expect?

dg

[BuyingThyme]

23. I never really noticed Randi lobbying for that.

Rachel did so with a bullhorn.

[WolverineDG]

24. You could always tell when Rachel was going to be on MSNBC

Randi would bash Keith or anyone else that afternoon on her show.

dg

[BuyingThyme]

25. That's funny. How does Randi feel about Rachel?

I think she used to like her. Not like like.

[WolverineDG]

31. I have no idea

but I got really tired of listening to her whine about Keith Olbermann & MSNBC every time Rachel was a guest on one of the shows.

dg

[lunatica]

26. She moved to Washington DC and immediately

shoved her head up her ass. It's a DC thing. It must be something in the water I think. Just phfft! Your head goes right up your ass as you talk in ever diminishing circles and spin ever faster. You end up right up your own ass in the spin cycle.

[SoCalDem]

27. This is why Fox is so dangerous. They are the bullies on the block

and when someone finally gets tired of being bullied, and fights back, THEY are accused of bullying.

This is why points are usual;y scored by OFFENSE, and years ago Fox staked out the offensive position (in every sense of the word). they are identified with it, and anyone who dares to fight back, is now labeled a Fox-wannabee or an oppressor out to "get them".

They are propagandists, pure and simple

[THX1138]

29. There is one easy way

to shut down that discussion:

MSNBC has hosts who are on the left and on the right. Fox does not. They represent a single POV.

[GodDamLiberal]

30. People still listen to Randi?/ eom

[MrMickeysMom]

33. Ooh, that had to have stung...

Hey, I'd probably listen to her online if I wasn't so busy and if the stream wasn't as difficult. To hear that she's changed from what she was is sad, mainly because she (at least in the past) made understanding our legislative branch a bit more interesting.

She should be a guest on the Ed Show now and again to see if she's still "got it" before passing her off as finished, I think.

[stevedeshazer]

34. I listened and came to an entirely different conclusion.

You must have missed the part she repeated several times, that Fox "News" calls itself "Fair And Balanced" and says, "We Report, You Decide".

MSNBC calls itself "The Place For Politics".

Clean out your ears. She said nothing resembling what you said she did.

Her point is that neither is actually "news", but Fox insists that they are a "news" channel. MSNBC is up front that it is "opinion".

Randi is quite right. The "news" has been canceled.

It has been replaced on cable television by punditry, not news.

You and several other posters here, who by the way didn't listen because they've already tuned her out and would rather hurl insults, have completely missed her point.

Your mileage may vary.

[BuyingThyme]

38. I heard exactly what she said.

She said Fox and MSNBC are the same: "Opinion." Oh, wait... That's what you said. I guess you weren't listening to yourself.

[stevedeshazer]

41. OK. Continue your delusion.

Waste your time denigrating someone who is on your side.

Join the circular firing squad.

Too bad you aren't smart enough to get her point.

Why don't you criticize some right-wingers for once?

[BuyingThyme]

44. You're just worried about defending Randi and are not interested in the topic.

I only want to discuss the topic. Are you able to see the difference through the fog?

[NuttyFluffers]

43. that's a habitual problem here (but everywhere, too)

i listened to Randi pretty regularly and the times she has gotten flak here has often been poor listening comprehension or hypersensitivity not getting her sense of humor (it's a regional thing i think -- very NYC, New Jersey-esque biting and contrarian humor. i find it hysterical myself, and that's as a Californian).

this episode doesn't surprise me and is par for the course for here. it's like a dog pound here at times, i think; little short attention spans chasing the latest shiny object, then barking furiously all around, and finally a big dogpile atop it. it could leave one jaded if it wasn't so amusing.

[stevedeshazer]

46. Exactly. I just wish the OP addressed what she said rather than their perception of Randi.

She's funny as hell.

[Spazito]

49. I agree, I listened to her show yesterday and heard what you heard...

Fox claims they are a news channel and will spout garbage even when it is shown to be proven lies, MSNBC is political opinion and makes that very clear.

She IS right, there is NO news on cable. I have a slight quibble with her in regard to her touting CNN as I find little difference between MSNBC and CNN.

[SalviaBlue]

52. I heard what you heard too.

She also stated that another BIG difference between Faux and MSNBC is that if MSNBC misreports something they correct it; if Faux misreports they do not correct it.

I love Randi; all of her faults not withstanding. She is a great LIBERAL source of information and entertainment.

[BlueGirlRedState]

53. I listened too and you're right

I saw this Randi bashing thread and I'm amazed. She was very very clear that Fox brands itself news and MSNBC calls itself the Place for Politics. She did not bash KO or Rachel, quite the contrary.

[mysticalchick]

55. This is what I got as well ...

... I enjoy listening to Randi because she encourages learning about how the government works and not just blindly accepting anyone's opinion (hers included). Sometimes she rants and sometimes I get sick of it and turn it off and go on with my day. Ain't no big thing. No need to bust on her. She's either your cup of tea or she's not.

Seconding this: "You and several other posters here, who by the way didn't listen because they've already tuned her out and would rather hurl insults, have completely missed her point."

Her point was that there is no accountability for facts and that for some reason, people assume what they hear on television is accurate. Fox presents itself as news when it's totally opinion. She contrasted that with MSNBC which calls itself "The Place for Politics" and doesn't pretend that it is an all news network. Although it never will because it works just fine as it is, Fox needs to come clean about what it's presenting - opinion.

[TheWebHead]

35. it's a roughly fair comparison

you have two networks who have politically biased coverage during primetime and much of the morning. Obviously FOX has no multi-hour block like MSNBC w/ a liberal, so on a scale Fox is further to the right than MSNBC is to the left. But if you're looking at being fully informed, Countdown never has guests offering a view on what's being discussed that's politically opposite of the host. Rachel occasionally does but the tilt is heavily to the left.

[BuyingThyme]

39. But the angles taken by MSNBC are usually based on somebody's

interpretation of the Constitution. Over at Fox, they hate the Constitution like I hate canned oysters.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. Then why don't you stop listening to it? n/t

[BuyingThyme]

45. I guess I'm not ignorant.

[Swamp Rat]

40. I stopped listening to her long ago.... She's all mouth and no ears.

:thumbsdown:

[mmonk]

42. Equivocating MSNBC with Fox is a Republican meme.

I'm glad I don't listen to Randi anymore. She's worthless.

[stevedeshazer]

47. Yeah, right. She's a Republican. She's worthless.

Riiigghht.

[mmonk]

57. Sorry but there is nothing wrong with my statement.

It IS a talking point I have heard.

[Romulox]

50. That's not what "equivocating" means...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equivocating

[mmonk]

56. To use equivocal language in order to deceive

seems correct to me.

[Romulox]

59. The poster *obviously* meant EQUATING "MSNBC with Fox is a Republican meme."

:hi:

[ecstatic]

48. I don't trust any of the popular talking heads/bloggers

to keep things honest once they've reached a certain level of fame.

[HughBeaumont]

51. Now if she likened CNBC to Faux, then I can understand.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/98

MSNBC? I mean, they're an overall moderate-leaning station at best. Morning with the right and afternoon with the left-of-center balance each other out. Faux is batshit insane and ridiculously opinionated 24-7.

[undeterred]

54. And she thinks CNN is the best place to get objective news.

I wonder what the hell she's smoking.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

58. Randi Rhodes is an an attention starved idiot

Randy Rhodes is a guitar god. RIP Randy.

[Quantess]

62. DUDE! RANDY RHOADS LIVES!!!!!!1

:headbang:

.
.
.
.
.
..groan...
:eyes:

[cynatnite]

60. I don't care for Randi. Rachel Maddow, though...I love her! n/t

[DireStrike]

61. Start even broader. It's not about what they support, but what they claim to be.

Olbermann's show is opinion journalism. MSNBC has a few shows like this, so does Fox and so does CNN.

But fox also claims to be a real, unbiased news station. They are not. They are news from a view.

There are lots of magazines and such that don't even try to hide their slant. They just claim it. Fox is being fundamentally dishonest about what they are and what they do in an attempt to redefine the "Center" of american politics. In addition to this, we all know their factual accuracy rate is far below and legitimate news outlet. Funnily enough, these errors always seem to happen in favor of the right-wing view.


To claim that MSNBC is like fox is pretty stupid.