As a college student, I'm glad that guns aren't allowed on campus

[Hippo_Tron]

Frankly I just can't fathom how they would do more good than harm. Even if I knew how to properly handle and care for a weapon, I still couldn't imagine the responsibility of carrying it around or even keeping it in my dorm room. It's one thing to keep one in your apartment if you live off campus. But bringing it on to campus is just too much risk involved.

Dorm rooms are simply not the place for weapons. They are not at all that secure and students forget to lock their doors all of the time. Additionally, dorm rooms tend to be the setting of parties in some instances. I wouldn't want a firearm anywhere near a bunch of drunk college kids even if it is stored in a locked container. People could easily find the key or the person who is carrying the key could easily have it stolen from him by his drunken friends.

Not to even mention the risks of people that who won't even make attempts at being responsible. Students leave their bags unattended all of the time and then wonder why their laptop or their Ipod gets stolen. I'm not convinced that they will be any more responsible about not leaving their bags laying around if they have a firearm in it. Also, people get into fist fights over nothing when they are drunk. Since people don't think rationally when they're under the influence of alcohol, I really wouldn't be surprised if fist fights escalate to people pointing guns at each other and possibly shooting each other even if they didn't really mean to but were mishandling the gun because they were drunk.

Maybe if everyone on campus was armed, we would be able to better diffuse situations like the one that happened at Virginia Tech yesterday. But the accidental deaths caused by putting guns in the hands of college students on campus would be far more than the deaths caused by the rare school shooting.

I'm not saying that college students are too young or too immature to own firearms. I am saying that from what I've observed as a college student, a college campus is simply not a safe environment for people to have guns.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. And from youth comes the most reasonable statement yet.

:thumbsup:

K & R

[WindRavenX]

2. Same here

Somehow, I don't think partying and lots of drinking + guns is a good combo :scared:

[Reverend_Smitty]

3. As a recent college grad, I agree with you 100%

We have to keep this in perspective, how many times in the history of this country has a person walked into a college classroom and started shooting people? Not many. How many times have people drank to excess and got into a fight on a college campus? It probably happens every weekend. How easy would it be to escalate a simple fist fight into murder if people had guns in their dorms, apartments, frat houses, or on their bodies?

[aikoaiko]

4. As a college professor, I wish I could carry a concealed weapon

Because laws outlawing guns on campus don't stop bad guys from doing so.

[joshcryer]

5. I think that's a good compromise, allow staff to have guns.

Should solve the issues that various "factions" have here.

[Squatch]

7. How about older, non-traditional students?

You know...the students who have families, years in the workplace, and are returning to school for their degree(s).

At what point do we say that a person is "responsible enough". An 18-year old with a driver's license, a 4.0 GPA, and holding a steady job seems like an incredibly responsible person to carry a firearm.

[New Era]

23. I was an 18 year old...

I was an 18 year old w/ a drivers license, 4.7 gpa, had a steady job, and had many friends like that as well and I can say, none of us at the time were "responsible enough" to carry a firearm. Education and guns should not go hand in hand (unless it is on how to use one properly of course). The shootings from avoidable situations would vastly out number like what happened at VA Tech.

[sandnsea]

9. Oh awesome

Instead of teachers just assaulting students, like we've got now, we'd have teachers shooting them. :eyes:

You don't even belong in a classroom. Your attitude is poisoning the minds of students, not enriching them.

[Squatch]

11. Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kwolf68]

10. And

How long have you been teaching and when have you ever had the need for a gun previously?

This insane idea of having a gun in a classroom is simply admitting our society is just beyond fucked up...now we need to be walking around packing heat just to take english 101. That's pathetic.

Part of orientation for all freshmen will be gun safety classes, some NRA propaganda and maybe we'll shoot up the squirrels that bounce around campus.

I own guns, do believe they should be legal, respect the 2nd amendment, but hate the damn things. To me they exist to do one thing: Kill Shit (people included).

[Reverend_Smitty]

13. I spent a good portion of my life in classrooms from 1989 to 2006

never once in all that time did I feel threatened and wished that a teacher had a gun to protect me...in fact if I knew my teacher was packing, I would tend to feel more uneasy. Who's to say that all teachers are in perfect mental shape? Kids can be real bastards sometimes and if you test someone's patience on the wrong day, well, I'd hate to see the results of that incident. I know my experiences are just anecdotal but I'm sure that there are millions of other people out there that never felt threatened in their classrooms to the point that their teacher needed a gun.

[aikoaiko]

20. In general very few people who are permitted by the state to carry a concealed gun use it in a crime

And, the thing about concealed is that no one knows you have a gun. At least in principle.

I see that you have not been threatened and thats great, but stats show violence happens on campus too.

[Reverend_Smitty]

27. But why the desire to carry a gun in the first place?

I live in a typical middle class area and never once have I thought to myself, "I wish I had a gun...just in case". Bad things do happen and maybe they can be prevented if you carry a gun at all times, but personally I'd rather take my chances...and we'll probably never agree on this, but I actually feel safer knowing my teachers and fellow students aren't allowed to have a gun on campus.

Again, I'm not picking on you or your right to own a gun, but I'm just curious why you want to carry a concealed weapon.

[aikoaiko]

31. Simple answer: because even though somethings are low probability events

I still like to plan for the worst case scenarios especially if its as simple as carrying a small defensive weapon.

I live in small southern city and crime happens everywhere -- there are few crime free areas. Violent crime happens and I'd like to have a fighting chance to save myself, my wife, and/or my child. I used to not understand why people had guns or carried them on their person until crime got closer to me.

Now I know there are some who have been horribly effected by crime and still chose to not have or carry a gun, but that aint me.

[aikoaiko]

14. As the massacre in VT shows violence can come to your classroom no matter what you think or believe

or teach as a professor.

I've been teaching for 8 years. I have not had my life threatened, but there have been attacks on my campus.

How can you hear about VT and not think that adults who are permitted to carry a concealed firearm elsewhere (I have a firearm license from my state and can carry a concealed firearm legally) shouldn't also be able to protect themselves at work. If we've learned anything, spree shootings can happen anywhere -- even in supposed gun-free zones.

[likesmountains 52]

24. I guess my problem with that is..how do you train all these people to respond appropriately in a

situation like VT which is unfolding rapidly, information coming out sporadically, probably a lot of the information is only rumor, conjecture or misunderstanding of the correct information..suppose that yesterday an oriental male had come running into a classroom to warn the other students of what was going on and he was shot and killed by an armed professor who was trying to do the right thing....once you start arming people who in all probability will never be involved in a random attack how do you keep them all trained to react correctly in an emergency?

[aikoaiko]

26. I know it sounds like a formula for disaster....

...but in my state, Georgia, where you aren't required to show proficiency with a gun as you do in Texas, you don't see people with Georgia Firearm Licenses killing people wrongfully with their weapon. But the simple answer to your question is to do demand a proficiency test and possible a written test on self-defense issues the way we do with cars.

Most gun owners who go through the extra background check and submit their fingerprint to the GBI are already really responsible folks who aren't going to start shooting at the drop of a hat. It hasn't happened yet.

Yes, there are some rare cases across the country where a licensed or permitted individual was convicted of a crime using his/her gun.

[Squatch]

6. WSU, 1997. I had 2 guns with me on campus

I had my first shotgun (Remington 870) that I used for pheasant hunting and a Colt Anaconda .44 that I used for deer hunting. You are required to lock them up at the police station, but since they didn't open the arms room until 9 each morning, it seemed pointless for me. So, I bought sturdy trigger locks, put them on the guns, and stored them under my bed.

Responsible or not, in your opinion?

[Hippo_Tron]

16. The police station should've been more accomodating

While I'd say you took all of the safety precautions that you could, I still would not keep guns under my bed in my dorm room even with all of your precautions. The combination of possible human error and the drunken idiots that live on my hall just make it too risky.

[kwolf68]

8. It's a damn retarded idea

I feel safer if none of us have guns than if 10 of us have them, even assuming I was one of the 10 carrying a gun. I sit in the front of the class and I like knowing the 25 or some odd students behind me in my Evolutionary Genetics class are not armed. I like it, feel safe with it. Giving them guns would not make me feel any damn safer.

The idea that someone carrying a gun in class would prevent crime is conjecture. I could also illustrate scenarios where the perpetrator would kill the other people with guns and then use their guns to kill even more people.

I see where we are going: Arm society to the gills, further entrench the glorification of guns, gun industry makes lots of money.

[aikoaiko]

15. how do you know they're not armed in your class?

[likesmountains 52]

17. Well said....and how many innocent people might have been shot yesterday who just happened

to be oriental males who were dressed in a similar outfit as the shooter? With hundreds of armed students running around the campus with only partial reports of what was happening, the odds of someone shooting the wrong person would be pretty high I would think...

[PsN2Wind]

18. Oregon Institute of Technology

offered an Associates degree in Gunsmithing as the first two years of their Manufacturing Technology program for several years until 1983. There was never an incident of a shooting either accidental or deliberate in those years. It was a common sight to see a student with a firearm in the halls between classes or walking between buildings. There was a shooting tube adjacent to the gunsmithing lab where gunsmithing students and the Gun Club could shoot on campus.
I'm not offering an opinion about guns on campus only stating a fact about my experience with them.

[sandnsea]

28. Becaue the intent matters??

Because the suspicious and hostile environment that would be created with armed teachers is quite a different thing than what you're describing. Could that be possible? Could it be the problem is with the psycho attitude people with guns have about their guns and other humans?? Could hate and animosity and dehumanization actually breed - murder?

Nooo, couldn't possibly be that simple.

[slackmaster]

19. I wouldn't have kept one in a dorm room at UCSD even if it was allowed

Security was way too weak, and there were way too many people around who were clever enough to pick locks, climb in through exterior windows, etc.

But I wouldn't mind if a few random professors, administrators, groundskeepers, librarians, etc. carried them discretely.

[piedmont]

21. Why do you think people change the instant they get on campus?

A person who meets the qualifications (over 21, no priors, taken a gun safety course, etc.) to carry a concealed weapon anywhere else in town should be allowed to carry on campus. Otherwise you end up with a stunningly large population of completely defenseless people.

[Ignacio Upton]

22. I agree

However, I do think that every major university should arm their campus police. At my school, we only armed our campus officers a year ago. I'm surprised they didn't do this years ago, because campus is near some economically-blighted neighborhoods, and armed robbery is a problem on the outskirts of campus from time to time. Some student were clamoring for the right to carry weapons on campus as self-defense. However, I think this is a stupid idea, as it would lead to the problems you stated.

[damntexdem]

25. As a professor, I feel the same way.

And I have the right to expect my institution to have an effective emergency-management plan and to implement it when an emergency happens. That was obviously not the case at VA Tech.

[Alexander]

29. Hippo, criminals don't pay attention to the "gun-free zone" signs.

If they did, this maniac would've said "Oh well, tough luck" and gone home.

I think certain people should be able to CCW on school grounds - responsible, trained, law-abiding gun owners, with licenses and registered firearms, with extensive extra testing done by the school in question to make sure they aren't letting some nut walk around with a concealed gun.

This testing should definitely include a psychological exam, demonstrations on how and when they use firearms, questions on where and when to properly use a firearm, and they should have to also notify the school of the firearm they will be carrying around.

They should also have to be either a professor or a student in good standing. I'm making an educated guess that people in good standing are far less likely to unload on their fellow human beings than someone who is expelled or on probation.

To the anti-gun zealots - note that I did not say "arm the students". I said "let them carry a gun, if they can prove to the school and state that they should be able to".

Anyone who wants nothing to do with firearms should, of course, not have to deal with them.

[likesmountains 52]

32. When I think of "extensive extra testing" I am reminded of the recent NASA incident..

I still think there is too much risk in "letting them" carry concealed weapons...

[scrinmaster]

30. Right. When they legalize CCW on campus, the school is going to mail out guns to every student.

One or two percent tops will even get a CCW permit, and even fewer will actually carry daily. But those few people might be able to stop something like this from happening.

[Monk06]

33. I suggested in a post on FR that guns should be banned on U campuses. Guess what?

I got banned. Surprise, Surprise !!!!

[tblue37]

34. When they start allowing concealed carry on campuses, I will quit teaching. (eom)