Okay, so let's say Thom Hartmann is right this morning and we are

[gateley]

still marching toward becoming a fascist nation.

You have the means to move wherever on the planet you'd like.

Where would you move, and why?

:hi:

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. If I ever left, it would be Costa Rica

Inexpensive to live and impressively beautiful.

[gateley]

30. Have you been there? I'll go Google some pics. We might

become neighbors! :7

[Ruby the Liberal]

46. Yes, I have and can't wait to go back!

Howdy neighbor-to-be! :D

[Donnachaidh]

2. Canada

Have family there, and it's a wonderful country with wonderful people.

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. Canada is great, but.....

Countries that live next door to fascist countries might be at risk themselves. Just ask Poland.

All these rumors a few years back about the "North American Union", it was obvious that the Steven Harper wing of the Canadian Conservative party was fully aboard the fascism train themselves. Might not even be necessary to roll out the tanks like Adolf did.

[Donnachaidh]

60. that's the chance we'd take I guess

We'd be living there now if we could find jobs. We've pretty much had it with the corporatocracy that runs DC now. And we include this administration in that name, as well.

[Mrs. Overall]

3. Thom is freaking me out a bit this morning--his opinion

about the economy totally crashing and that next year will really be awful financially.

Very eye-opening, if he's truly accurate.

Not sure where I'd move--will have to think about that.

[AllentownJake]

4. Is there a replay

I'd like to hear what he said about the economy.

[Mrs. Overall]

7. He might archive his shows on his site.

Sometimes he (or someone with the username ThomHartmann) posts parts of the show in the video forum here on DU.

[patrice]

10. You can listen to the current show for free at thomhartmann.com

and of course you can subscribe to Thom's podcasts.

This is the economist that Thom has on the show the most often, maybe about once a month, http://www.ravibatra.com/

[Raineyb]

38. If you can't afford podcasts the white rose society will have them

but it's on a 7 day delay. Not great if you need it to be current but you'll hear what's been on his show and still get the information.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. Ravi Batra is the one saying that?

I hold him in VERY high esteem. He called the collapse of Communism as a functioning system a decade before it happened and the collapse of the housing market back in the early 2000s.

He is one smart cookie. I highly recommend his book The New Golden Age - The coming revolution against political corruption and economic chaos

[coffeenap]

31. It is replayed in its entirely on:

chicagoprogressivetalk.com

beginning at 2:00pm central time

Best wishes!

[Ruby the Liberal]

48. He often posts his own stuff in the video forum here

[gateley]

6. Yeah, he was making some serious sense on this (to my mind,

anyway)and was freaking me out, too. Hence, my post! :hi:

[ORDagnabbit]

theres been a number of us on the site here that have been saying this for a while...

glad thom doesnt sugar coat it.

www.moneyasdebt.net you can watch it on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

give it a shot...45 minutes and you will know more about how money is created than 99% of the people on the plantet

[gateley]

28. Thanks -- I always am hungry for more facts, info, then often times

wish I hadn't learned what I'd learned! But I WILL check this out! :hi:

[blues90]

43. My wife and I are too old and broke to go anywhere

We were born here and I guess we will die here. Where can one go these days without a lot of money and a wait period to even get into Canada . Every single inch of land in the US is owed by someone so you can't very well live off the land and stake the land.

[gateley]

51. I can identify (except for the wife!).

I'm guessing that the smartest thing I could do is learn to grow food. I've even seen contraptions that you can use on an apartment balcony, if you don't have land. Probably wouldn't be able to get much, but every bit would help! :hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. It's always with the "fascism" isn't it.

[Gman2]

9. If the shit hits the fan, other countries will not accept us.

And you will just be a fucking illegal alien. With NO con rights. So, here is the message you NEED to digest

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6804593&mesg_id=6804593

[gateley]

12. Good message -- thanks! nt

[Gman2]

18. My tagline doesn't suck either, The working class can beat the hell outta the investor class.

[gateley]

23. But the ones who seem energized are energized around

fake "threats" -- like killing Grandma. And, they're being bankrolled.

In theory I totally agree. In reality, too many people are unaware. How can we corral the masses so we CAN beat the hell out of them?

[Gman2]

35. You cannot expect a lie to go forever. All the bad words have already been raped.

They have Fox, period. the independents, that arent Libertarian, think they are whacked. They listen to noone with a brain. So, they try every scummy trick in the book. Ill concieved or not. Obama is playing them for suckers. There are babies growing up to vote every day. They have pissed off, likely for a lifetime, poor ill and minorities. And I, for one, am ready to volunteer, as soon as needed, to mow their crooked asses into butter, soon as I am deputized. Let's Roll.

[gateley]

41. I'm ready! nt

[Ezlivin]

11. The Fortress of Solitude

If Superman can't protect me from the Onslaught of the Month™ then nothing can.

[Echo In Light]

13. I was just listening to Peter Dale Scott, who warns of the same, yet claims Canada's military has...

... progressed along the same lines. However, with being one state away from the Canadian boarder, that's still where my family would go should the shit really hit the fan. Don't know if it would do us any good or not though.

[liberal_at_heart]

14. UK

My husband and I want to move to the UK so bad. This just doesn't feel like my country anymore. I don't feel like I fit in the USA anymore. I think I would be much more comfortable and happy in the UK or Europe. The transportation system, healthcare system, people willing to learn more than one language, secular law, travel, willingness to interact with people from different cultures and countries, not so war happy. They just seem more laid back and relaxed. They've been through their colonialism stage. They've been there, done that. They no longer want to remake the entire world in their image. Now, they just want to work, relax, eat dinner, enjoy friends and family, and enjoy a good wine. Sounds like a good life to me.

[gateley]

25. Sounds good to me, too! You explained it beautifully --

I love this: ...Now, they just want to work, relax, eat dinner, enjoy friends and family, and enjoy a good wine.

I owned an espresso cart and noticed that My Fellow Americans would whiz up, place their order really fast, grab their coffee and fly out the door. Europeans would get their shot, stand there and leisurely drink it, savoring it, surveying the area, making small talk. It really made an impression on me. So, I'm leaning toward Europe now, too. (I'm partial to Italy :7 but am also enamored by the French countryside.) Just wish I could actually do it!

[rd_kent]

15. Hartmann thinks were are becoming a fascist nation?

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Sounds like a teabagger

[barbtries]

16. i'd want to go south

to a tropical nation, like Jamaica, or Belize, or Costa Rica...but if i was serious about getting OUT of the US the most viable place would probably be Canada.

good question. are there jobs for english-only speaking middle-aged admins wherever i might go? not afraid to learn a new language but i suck at languages.

eh. all pie in the sky. it's for my children/grandchildren's sake that i would even consider it, and they would probably refuse to move!

where would you move, and why?

[gateley]

26. Yeah, I'll probably be here 'til my dying day, too. So many

of the suggestions are appealing. I love Europe, and I also love the tropics. Hell, since it's a fantasy at this point, I'll travel between whatever destinations I choose!

:hi:

[barbtries]

33. that's the answer

i'll just become spontaneously independently wealthy and travel to my heart's content until my heart gives out

[lunatica]

17. If the US goes down so does the rest of the continent

And if Americans start bailing and running off to other countries to contribute to their economic woes they'll find themselves as unwelcome as any other low income group.

It's probably best to stay here and do some serious changing. Like starting small farms and start manufacturing the goods we need again.

[gateley]

29. How do we start manufacturing the goods we need again?

That's what would give a big shot in the arm to our country. I was thinking about this last night -that maybe it's gone too far. What companies are going to bring back their facilities when they make such a huge profit by getting the goods made overseas? And (I might be wrong on this) don't these companies get a tax INCENTIVE to actually do just that?

[lunatica]

42. A start is to find those companies and start backing them

Just one example:

If we must buy clothes for our children, which we must google links like this one:

http://www.cwdkids.com/servlet/quagga/custom/items.jsp/_qprm_/noleft?id=61&gclid=CM3A5tfSyZ0CFRkpawodBEzIqw

Clothes made in the USA

http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/clot

http://americanmadeyes.com/clothingamerican.html?gclid=CJaw-aPTyZ0CFR4UagodvWSVsg

Levys and like apparel

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/

When our American clothing manufacturers get the orders they hire more American workers and the cloth manufacturers they get their cloth from will hire more workers and the retail stores will hire more workers.

What we have to do is realize it will take a while to get our economy going again. But circumstances will force this on us in any case. It's up to us how long it takes to build a new economy.

[gateley]

45. It's my hope that we can soon compete with the prices of the

goods coming out of China. There are so many people who couldn't afford a lot of things were it not for the cheap prices (I'm thinking Wal-Mart, here).

I buy so little, and only buy for myself (no kids, family) that I can certainly make sure that all my purchases are American made.

[geek tragedy]

19. So, he thinks Glenn Beck is right?

When does he start talking about FEMA concentration camps and the H1N1 vaccine plot?

[NYCGirl]

21. Give him time. Sounds like he'll get around to it by next week. NT

[Mrs. Overall]

34. No--Glenn Beck talks about fascism/nazism directly in terms of Obama

and the shut down/detention of the right wing and he relates it to communism (way out there conspiracy theories).

Thom Hartmann is talking about fascism in its original definition in terms of corporate interest determining government policy. He has a financial expert on (who will be on a PBS Frontline episode on Tuesday) who is talking about the terrible state of the economy/banking system and government involvement. They are explaining what's wrong with Wall Street and the current financial system in the US and on a global level. It's not conspiracy theory stuff at all.

We could be headed for some continued difficult financial times within the next year.

[geek tragedy]

36. Fascism is first and foremost a form of authoritarian government.

It is incoherent to say that we're headed for a fascist regime under Obama, but that such occurrence doesn't reflect negatively on Obama.

[Mrs. Overall]

39. You really need to listen to the show or watch Frontline on PBS--

the focus is the financial system (not Obama), though many economists are critical of Obama's financial advisers. The economic mess is deeply rooted--Reaganomics.

This wasn't a bash Obama fest--it explored some of the steps the Obama administration must take to begin to untangle this mess that goes back for years.

[gateley]

52. He was focusing on the economic/governmental aspect, not

saying that Obama is a fascist dictator.

He mentioned that we have gone from a manufacturing country to an economics country. 100% of the GDP is currently attributed to the banking sector. 100%! Goldman is borrowing money from the government at practically zero interest, and investing in Chinese concerns. Stuff like that.

[safeinOhio]

20. Too old to move and

start over. I'll hunker down and wait it out. Fascist countries never last long.

[taught_me_patience]

22. New Zealand or Australia

Good British sensibility over there.

[peace frog]

24. Go where? Who will have us?

When the shit hits the fan, any country worth moving to will shut us out as they close ranks in order to care for their own, and rightfully so. Anyone thinking of leaving had better do it quickly before the borders lock down tight.

[gateley]

27. They may not let us out if it gets really bad! I'm thinking East

Germany...

I really don't think it'll get to that point, but I don't think the Good Germans thought it would, either. :shrug:

I'm not going anywhere, except in my fantasies. :7

[Gman2]

40. In fact, the military said that our nukes will be used primarily, in the 21 st century, to stop mass

emigration or fleeing climate change. So, if you want to be glassed, move en masse on someone elses country. They WILL kill you. Now, we had plans to annex like canada, or Mexico, to live in, if climate change happens. Perhaps, right before Obama leaves office, we can nuke someone, with a neutron bomb, and move right in.

[waiting for hope]

32. Brazil - they have the most vacation days ...

:)

[gateley]

54. And you wouldn't need to actually GO anywhere else to enjoy

that vacation! It's a beautiful country!

[waiting for hope]

62. It's a one stop destination ....

I'd be there in a heartbeat if it weren't for looking after my aging parents ...

[Ian David]

37. Someplace with a good climate, low cost of living, high-speed internet, no warlords and militias...

... and where I can safely drink the water.

[TheKentuckian]

44. If it goes that bad then there will be no retreat. Don't count on being able to run away

Flight only works if what you run from cannot catch you or is disinterested in trying to. The response is fight and the time for it is now. Flight can at best only delay a fight and it will not be at the time of your choosing nor in the company of many.

Are we humans or rabbits looking for holes?

[SidneyCarton]

47. I'd stay.

Half the board thinks I'm a fascist anyway, so I ought to fit in just fine.

All Sarcasm aside, New Zealand has always looked good to me. They speak English (big plus for Mrs. Carton, who is not bilinugal) they accept immigrants with certain skill sets. And unlike Canada, which would be uncomfortably close to a fascist U.S., NZ is almost 10,000 miles away.

[gateley]

55. You and my best friend -- she's married to an Australian but

fell in love with New Zealand when she went down there to be married. Bring sunscreen!

[madrchsod]

49. somewhere beyond jupiter......

"there`s a space ship out beyond Jupiter..i heard it on tv..."

[Ozymanithrax]

53. Freedom is dangerous. Those unwilling to live with the danger will find Tyranny anywhere they go

No place is safe from tyranny. An active and engaged citizenry willing to take their government to task, no matter who is in power, is the only remedy.

I will stay right here, thank you very much, and fight the erosion of our liberties, no matter who might be in charge. I can as easily by shot and buried in a mass grave by a government here as I can in Costa Rica or Timbuktu. So why move.

But if you want to move, you might as well move someplace warm with good scenery. Tyranny is easier to swallow, I hear, if you are comfortable.

[gateley]

56. It's getting our citizenry 'active and engaged' that's the problem.

I've heard in France the government is afraid of the citizenry -- and I would love to see that here!
I'm more than willing, and would actually prefer, to stay and fight. My concern is if the rest of said citizenry knuckles under and I end up in the woods wearing camouflage with a few like-minded souls.

[Ozymanithrax]

58. The same issues you face here will be where ever you go.

There is no country today where the same conflict between power and freedom isn't being played out. Costa Rica has a horendous problem with poverty, as do most of the smaller countries of the world. All governments are corrupt at some level.

I don't think that there is a big danger of going facist as there is in the fall out from the collapse of the US Imperial superpower status. All great powers end. Some last longer than others. That ending could be very dificult if you live in a region where the general cutlure is different from your own.

If I were you, or any concerned citizen, I'd move, if necessary, to one of the really blue states; especially if you live in the South or some of the midwestern states. Living in an area of like minded individuals is better and less frustrating.

[gateley]

61. Well you make a lot of sense, and history proves that all great

powers end. I do hope we, and other countries, LEARN from what went wrong.

And since I probably couldn't manage moving to another country (and as you say, all countries have their problems and all government is corrupt at some level) I'm glad I live in Seattle! :hi:

[sinkingfeeling]

57. Republic of Ireland for me.

[lunatica]

63. My son's father and his family live in Mexico so that's where we would go

And I grew up there so that's the obvious place to go.