Bikes and the bad-for-business rap

[HuckleB]

http://bikeportland.org/2009/10/14/bikes-and-the-bad-for-business-rap/

"Despite the many strides bicycles have made in cities across America, one criticism they haven’t been able to completely shake is that they’re bad for business. And, in an economic climate like we’re in today, that’s a serious accusation.

As long as cities have been planning for bicycle traffic, business owners have complained that bike lanes, bike parking, and other bike-related facilities hurt their business. The thinking goes like this: Car access equals business success. Do anything to decrease that access — like remove car parking, narrow or remove car lanes for bikeways, or install traffic calming measures like medians or speed bumps — and the result is less business.

However, there are recent academic and real life examples that seem to prove that bike access is good for business.

A study based in Toronto and published by the Clean Air Partnership in February found that the removal of car parking and installation of a bike lane did not negatively impact merchants. The executive summary of that study stated:

“The spending habits of cyclists and pedestrians, their relatively high travel mode share, and the minimal impact on parking all demonstrate that merchants in this area are unlikely to be negatively affected by reallocating on‐street parking space to a bike lane. On the contrary, this change will likely increase commercial activity.”


..."



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Sometimes smaller isn't so bad, after all.

[Captain Hilts]

1. I've spent over four years biking in Toronto. It's a grid with few significant hills. nt

[MajorChode]

2. It seems moronic that someone would think it was bad for business

It's actually great for local business because most people aren't going to go all that far on a bike. If I have to hop in a car I might as well go a town or two over.

[HuckleB]

3. My guess is that it comes from business people stuck in an old-school mindset.

[MajorChode]

10. Back in the old school most everyone rode bicycles

It's only been since the 1960's onward where you have the explosion of cars. Bikes are still quite popular in Europe because even though they are more densely populated, they still have a village mentality in many areas.

[HuckleB]

12. Uh, it started before the '60s.

Long before the '60s.

[MajorChode]

14. Sure. The model T was first produced in 1908

if you want to go back that far. But people still rode bicycles to a large degree for many years after because even though Henry Ford made the car more accessible to more people, they were still very expensive to own and operate. It wasn't until about 1960 when you had explosive growth of cars relative to the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_vehicles_in_the_United_States#Vehicle_and_population_ratios_.28millions.29_since_1960

[HuckleB]

16. You're forgetting a lot with that equation.

The local train and trolley systems were destroyed in the 40s and 50s, and most people walked rather than used bicycles. Or, in rural areas, they used animals to get around.

[MajorChode]

17. I'm going by auto production figures

In 1927, Chevrolet produced 1 million vehicles.

In 1958, Chevrolet produced 1.1 million vehicles.

Only in the 1960's and beyond did you start to see production figures that significantly outpaced the population growth.

So yes, prior to 1960 people rode trolleys and donkeys or walked or found all sorts of means of transportation, including bicycles. But after 1960 the trend towards passenger autos took off.

[HuckleB]

23. And how about bike sales?

What were they? And are you still going to ignore the fact that the mass transit was being disbanded long before 1960?

[MajorChode]

25. I'm still waiting for you to explain just exactly what mass transit has to do with it

How about donkey sales? Do you want the numbers on those next?

[rucky]

4. Can't carry a flat-screen TV home on a bike.

[HuckleB]

8. Wanna bet?

http://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/household-move-by-bike.html

On edit: video -- http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/bike-move/

[MajorChode]

11. Shit the Vietnamese carried entire armies complete with supplies on them

[unhappycamper]

13. Pics to prove your point:

[jberryhill]

15. Yes, but did they BUY anything?

I hear they were pretty finicky shoppers and not even drastic price reductions would get them to spend.

Tune in next week to UToronto Studies - Are Communist insurgents bad for business?

[Canuckistanian]

5. Parking lots are expensive

Maintenance and taxes on the land.

I could see some "bike-only" businesses happening.

[HuckleB]

7. Indeed.

And I don't think that was factored in to this study at all.

[a la izquierda]

19. My local health food store...

gives a 10% discount for bike patrons.

[Canuckistanian]

20. Bravo!

Now that's the kind of thinking we need. Smart people.

[a la izquierda]

21. Yep, they're super...

even if I do smell funny when I leave there :)

[vadawg]

22. id just park round the block and walk my bike round and get my discount

no way in the world am i doing my weekly shopping by bike, even the Vietcong guys would balk at that...

[taterguy]

26. I did my weekly shopping on a bike for years

One backpack and one duffel bag slung over my shoulder.

Not too difficult at all.

Less of a hassle than putting a bike rack on and off a vehicle just to get a ten percent discount.

And the odds are that you're not going to be doing your "weekly" shopping at a health food store, just picking up a few items.

[vadawg]

27. as i have a 30 mile trip to the store through mountains on dirt roads

im not going to be riding a bike there anywhoo, i figure im being balanced out somewhere else inthe world.....

[Ron Green]

29. Yeah, that's it; somebody else is always gonna take up the slack for

people who use more than their share.

[vadawg]

33. yup i figure since you got to use shit for years when i didnt, then i should feel no guilt using it

now, im looking forward to the west telling all the poor in the world that they cant have electricity or run gas motors because its bad for the planet, but we already got to do it....

[taterguy]

30. So you'd buy a bike, lock etc that you'd never use just to get a discount at a health food store

How much granola do you eat?

[vadawg]

32. lol none, but i got a bike that i fart around on around my property

i still think im evil kneival, and i have a bike that i use at work sometimes at things like fairs, concerts etc etc...

[taterguy]

35. 10 percent of none can add up to a whole lot of nothing

[vadawg]

36. yeah but i will still save 10% even if its 10% of nothing, its the principal :)

[taterguy]

37. What principal? That everyone has a right to screw health food stores out of a ten percent discount?

[vadawg]

38. hell yes if they are willing to give me a discount for showing them my bike

then im willing to show them my bike, or a picture of it if they like and its easier for me to carry in my truck....

[taterguy]

39. The discount is for lowering their cost

Parking lots cost money to build and maintain.

Then there's all those Externalities of Cost, or whatever the hell they keep talking about in Freakonomics.

[vadawg]

40. yeah and by me parking in a neighbours lot and walking over with my bike

im still lowering their costs, i have my bike (or Photo once i reach an understanding) so i get my discount. sweet..

[taterguy]

43. If you want to get overly principled about it, their patrons who drive and park elsewhere still cost

All transportation is subsidized by the government.

Automobile usage is more heavily subsidized than bicycle usage.

So when you drive, you're jacking up their tax bill.

And those freaks at the health food store might think that things like clean air have a value.

[vadawg]

44. yep im sure they do but if they are offering a discount for having a bike then how dumb would you be

not to take advantage of it, or do they ask that you cycle a certain distance beforehand, if its just go shopping on a bike then im willing to cycle across the parking lot to get my discount....

[taterguy]

45. Got it. Anyone who doesn't maximize profits by any means necessary is dumb

Thanks for the tip.

:toast:

[LanternWaste]

41. I imagine variations of that phrase have been used

"i figure im (sic) being balanced out somewhere else inthe (sic) world....."


I imagine variations of that phrase have been used to cover all manner of sins, self-validations and justifications throughout history. Most effective on a personal level if can easily deny themselves honesty I would think... which is probably why it's still used to the extent it is.

Easy & Simplistic. Not much else is warranted or necessary in our pop culture-- much like the moral equivalent of Britney Spears... except in your case, or course.

[vadawg]

42. not denying honesty at all, just not prepared to deny my family luxuries

in order to make other people feel better, you can wear sackcloth and flagelatte yourself all day long, i am not going to stop you. You can make the changes you want and feel better about yourself and ill do stuff that i want...

[a la izquierda]

34. I buy about 6 things at the health food store

at any given time. And it's on the way home from my office, which i bike to unless it's raining.

But, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for not being able to do it. If I had a bike trailer, I'd do all my shopping by bike, because all of the stores I go to are within 2 miles.

[kestrel91316]

6. Bad for WHOSE business?? Car dealers and repair shops?

Heart surgeons? Highway construction company lobbyists??

I'm confused.

I rode my bike 13 miles on shopping errands today. And I don't give a goddamned rat's ass WHOSE business I supposedly hurt doing it.

[HuckleB]

9. They want their "FREE" parking!

That's the be-all, end-all to far too many people in business. Luckily, there are enough that see through such BS.

[Fumesucker]

18. Interesting that you should mention parking, I just saw this picture last night..

42 folding bicycles parked in the space for one car.



And here's the bike.



Edited due to poster's morning caffeine deficiency..

[Robb]

28. That picture borders on the awesome. Thank you. nt

[Ignis]

24. Primarily, gas stations.

Let's get serious about who killed the electric car, here. :)

[billyclem]

31. I would like a lot more bike lanes

I like to ride but I rarely feel safe. Since I can't use my legs to pedal I ride a handcycle:




I use two 8ft flags with flashing leds to help get noticed, so far it has worked. If there is an unpopulated sidewalk I will use that; but, sometimes the police will run me off, sometimes not. The canes fastened to the seatback usually give them a clue as to why I am pedaling with my arms and not going as fast as a bicycle, unless the road is flat.