Bonus points to the DU'er who said antidepressants were likely a factor in VT killer.

[caligirl]

There was a thread yesterday on this and antidepressants and their side effects were discussed.

Here is the story.
BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was identified today as an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old senior, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5686446?nclick_check=1

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Um...

Wouldn't the depression be the problem, not the medicine?

[mtnester]

2. Violent and erratic sound like something COMPLETELY different

from depression.

[thereismore]

5. "Violent and erratic" could be side-effects of antidepressants. nt

[hang a left]

7. I'll bet he was schizophrenic and was misdiagnosed.

Read his ramblings? I think he was hearing voices and having delusions.

[theHandpuppet]

27. Ditto that!

I'm in total agreement.

[Ilsa]

28. The age for onset is reasonable also. nt

[kestrel91316]

36. Ditto. This guy was completely unhinged and delusional.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. not in the case of "agitated depression"- violent and erratic are

compatible with this-

[Lerkfish]

3. IIRC, some antidepressants actually have caused suicidal behaviour in the past

from people depressed, but not prone to be suicidal.

[Donnachaidh]

10. prozac and zoloft IIRC has been cited as problematic

and may cause suicides.

[smirkymonkey]

44. The problem with some SSRI's is that they are often prescribed

for people who have been misdiagnosed with unipolar depression. Those with bi-polar (could be Bipolar I or II, cyclothymia), schizophrenia and other mental disorders are not helped by SSRI's which are intended only for unipolar depression and can even be harmed.

[Donnachaidh]

51. okay I'll bite -- WTF is 'unipolar depression'?

That's a new term to me.

[Phx_Dem]

73. regular depression

or another type of depressive disorder like Dysthymia. typical depression does not cycle states (like mania or extreme sadness) so it's "uni-polar" as opposed to manic-depressions "bi-polar" behavioral changes.

[Donnachaidh]

76. so WHY the name change?

Not meant as a rant -- but what's the point of the name change? Different name, new more pricier drugs for the same affliction? :sarcasm:

[Phx_Dem]

87. different names

GPs are generally the ones to diagnose depressive disorders these days, and given that they prefer to think of it a disease, they often refer to it as "clinical" or "endogenous" depression.

[Radio_Lady]

85. The usual description is clinical or major depression.

It seems that the UNIPOLAR nomenclature came about more recently.

I was diagnosed with clinical depression in the 1960s in my late teens.

[Clark2008]

88. My women's studies professor used to say that being a

teenager WAS a natural "psychosis."

I can believe it. I hated being a teenager. I loved my late teens/early 20s, however.

[mtnester]

17. I thought those meds that raised some violence issues were the ADD and ADHD meds

I know my nephew BEGGED to be taken off one drug..his own internal rage scared him. They moved him to Ritalin from Strattera and he said it was MUCH better...but these are not anti-depressant drugs. Agree that some of the anti-d drugs can cause suicidal thoughts, but I have never heard of a study where they caused or jump started homicidal bloodbaths.

The rage is the key..wonder if he was mis or non (self) diagnosed depressed when in reality he was more bi-polar or manic? (And I mean in an over the top way)

Perhaps too, he was simply a cold blooded sociopath who squashed the last little bit of conscience he had with a little zoloft or PZ.

This whole episode had such refinement and precision, I believe he planned this for weeks, even months...probably with rehearsals. I go with sociopath...if he were completely psychotic I do not think he could have pulled it off the way he did...(I am no expert, and most of this is based on the fact that I am a cop's daughter, and some spidey sense)

[Jamastiene]

70. Nah, the antidepressant I take was actually used as a defense in

a few cases. Here is an example of the "Zoloft Defense" in South Carolina.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/15/zoloft.trial/index.html


I am among those who believe that a kid that young shouldn't have been taking an SSSI as they have been known to cause problems in younger people. To be honest about it, I'm not even sure I should be taking it any more. My problems do not involve violence or anything like that, but short term memory loss. A lot of us are complaining about that problem after taking SSSI's for a while but they won't list it officially as a side effect. I don't care what the pharmaceutical companies claim, Zoloft is the culprit for the short term memory loss in many of us who had no memory problems before taking it.

Antidepressants are dangerous when they are prescribed based on too few actual facts about a patient. It's a shame that it happens, but it does. Mental patients are often prescribed medications that are way too strong or in a lot of cases completely wrong for their particular condition.

[partylessinOhio]

4. No. The medications can be more dangerous than the illness.

We need to know the name of the medication. Does anyone know?

[Donnachaidh]

8. not necessarily -- these meds cause problems

suicides especially.

[hiaasenrocks]

9. Yep. The "problem" with the medication is usually when the patient

doesn't take the meds as prescribed or stops taking it altogether against the advice/instruction of their doctor.

These comments against such medication amount to nothing more than a baseless indictment of medication that saves millions of lives and families around the world.

While I do not base my opinion solely on my personal/family experience, I have seen firsthand the value of this medical treatment.

[Sapere aude]

19. I have first hand experience, me. I take depression meds. I get very angry at times when I go off

the meds. The meds do not cause the problems. The problems were there first. One past employer use to tell me that those I supervise were afraid of me. Now no one knows of my problems unless I tell them.

These tails of side effects are what I used to decide not to take meds when they were first suggested to me by professionals when I was in a safe house to prevent my suicide. My life is 100% better now and I really get pissed at those who blame the meds for the behavior because many people who could be helped are not going to be.

Mental Health is the most misunderstood disease there is yet there are so many "experts" out there.

[hiaasenrocks]

21. Thank you for the response and I wish you well. It's really dangerous when

people spew half-truths about medical information.

I hate to think about the people who read such crap on the Internet(s) and might become discouraged from seeking treatment that could save their lives.

There are some extremely irresponsible and horribly misinformed posts in this thread.

[Connonym]

50. I'm alive and able to leave my house. Pretty nice side effects

Before meds I didn't. I started prozac when it first came on the market back in the late 80s. I had been tried on old-school tricyclic antidepressants to no effect. In the past nearly 20 years I have gone on and off the prozac a couple times and I've tried other antidepressants. I'll never voluntarily go off it again. It not only saved my life, it gave me a quality of life worth saving.

If you look online you'll find people frothing at the mouth about the dangers of everything from microwave ovens to nutrasweet to vaccinations and ADD meds. Quack, quack, take it all with a grain of salt. Antidepressants aren't all evil and based on the people I've talked to about the disease of chronic depression I would guess that the number of people saved by antidepressants is exponentially larger than the number of people who have any substantial adverse side effects let alone suicidal side effects. You don't have to believe me but don't believe every other wild story online either. Discuss it with a medical professional you trust. If you trust random internet people over your own doctor then I would suggest that you need to find a new doctor.

[maggiegault]

60. I Am Bipolar And Had A Relapse One Month Ago Today

My medications went out of whack when my antidepressant, Wellbutrin, ceased to be effective for me.

It happens all of the time, particularly when you are on a "cocktail" of meds, like I am.

I just started Lexapro, which is in the Celexa/Luvox/Paxil/Zoloft family of medications. I cannot take those meds without my mood stabilizer, Lithium.

And so far, so good. I feel pretty okay. A little spacey at times, and it makes me very sleepy, but for a bipolar person, sleep can sometimes be hard to come by, so I love it.

I can already feel a marked difference in the abatement of my symptoms.

Millions and millions of human beings on our planet take antidepressants successfully. Sometimes you have to try a couple to find one that works for you. Every person reacts differently to psych meds.

Were it not for the proper psychiatric medications, including antidepressants, I would not be alive to type this. I would have committed suicide when I had my nervous breakdown in the summer of 2000.

It is dangerous and ignorant to post sweeping statements such as "those meds cause suicides." My meds KEPT ME from committing suicide.

[pitohui]

63. clearcut proof that drugs can change behavior

i wouldn't call "being able to leave the house and function" the side effect of your anti-depressant, it is instead the intended effect and proof if any is needed that these drugs do change brain chemistry

brain chemistry is individual and poorly understood, in the end, since these drugs do change the brain, what is needed is NOT the removal from the market of a good and useful drug but much better monitoring by doctors and hospitals so that in the rare event that the brain change is negative, the person can be safely weaned off that drug and another one tried

i don't blame the drugs, i blame a medical system where a doctor is forced by insurers to fob off a patient w. a pill without proper inpatient monitoring to see what the patient's true diagnosis really is, the guy who threatened me should never have been diagnosed with clinical depression in the first place, better observation sooner would have told that he was suffering from delusions not just depression and that prozac alone was a potentially dangerous choice, too many economic factors came into play, also that doctor (he's no longer in practice) had tons of free samples to hand out and this guy was low income so...free samples of prozac it was!

your advice to find a new doctor if you trust invisible friends on the internet better than your current doctor is probably the most sensible comment on this thread

[Radio_Lady]

86. Thanks, Connonym. I am still taking one of the old-fashioned tricyclics.

It works for me (Pamelor -- generic is Nortriptyline). Going off of it just means trouble or hospitalization. I will be on it for the rest of my life.

Thanks for speaking up.

[Blue_Tires]

58. i agree entirely -- was about to post the same thing

and i also take antidepressants

[robinlynne]

12. exactly. However, There is another problem people never bring up. I use an HMO,

and what they do for mental health, in all cases, is give medication, instead of therapy, because medication is cheaper. This is happening over and over throughout the united states since we have such wonderful health care. It is a byproduct of the health care provider greed coupled with the pharmaceutical companies' greed. and of course a government catering to big business. I doubt that medicating actually causes depression, but lack of treatment, because people are receiving medicaiton, and are considered "treated", certainly does!

[hiaasenrocks]

14. And there are "hug em and drug em" doctors who use medication to

replace what is called "talk therapy." I think it's important for people to have medication, but if their psychiatrist doesn't talk to them, counsel them, they need to seek out a psychologist for additional treatment.

[Sapere aude]

13. Don't let truth get in the way of a good anecdotal conclusion.

[hiaasenrocks]

15. No kidding. I'm amazed at some of the comments in this thread.

Most are leaving out at least half of the equation.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. word-

:crazy:

[tandot]

31. antidepressant have been known to cause suicidal thoughts in some people:

http://www.mcmanweb.com/FDA_suicide.htm

"On Sept 14, 2004, an FDA panel voted 18 to 5 to require manufacturers of all antidepressants to add black box warnings to their product labeling. A month later, the FDA adopted the panel's recommendations. The warning reads in part:

"Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in short-term studies in children and adolescents with Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of or any other antidepressant in a child or adolescent must balance this risk with the clinical need. Patients who are started on therapy should be observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior."

----------------


http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/Paxil_murder.htm

"For the first time, a jury found a pharmaceutical firm liable for deaths caused by a patient taking an antidepressant. A federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyo., ordered SmithKline Beecham (now GlaxoSmithKline) to pay $6.4 million to relatives of Donald Schell.

Schell, 60, had been taking Paxil for just 48 hours when he shot and killed his wife, his daughter, his granddaughter and himself.

The June 7 verdict may alter the landscape in a mass tort that had struggled to gain traction."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. so has depression.

blaming this on anti-depression meds strikes me as blaming cholera epidemics on penicillin.

[tandot]

43. Yes, for some, depression could lead to suicide. What the FDA is warning about is

that some previously non-suicidal people suffering from depression, who go on certain antidepressants, might suddenly develop suicidal thoughts.

It doesn't happen often, but it is listed as one possible side-effect.

For most people suffering from depression, antidepressants are extremely helpful and no doubt prevent suicides.

[Forkboy]

53. Let's just say they can increase the intensity of the thoughts.

Making those thoughts more likely to be acted upon.

[otherlander]

61. He was unmedicated at the time of the shooting. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

6. This man was an undiagnosed schizophrenic.

Bank it. I have close ties to two people who suffer this, both began to suffer it when they were 19, it took a while for this to be recognized, and the descriptions of his behavior I've read are almost exactly similar.

[hang a left]

11. Yep.

Onset is late teens early twenties. Just from the descriptions of his behavior and his ramblings. Kid was in trouble.

[H2O Man]

23. It well could be.

He could have suffered from schizophrenia. It may have been something different. The amount of evidence that is known to the public at this point only allows for one sure bet: we don't know.

[woo me with science]

24. Maybe, maybe not. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. I have a schizophrenic sibling and I agree with you

They thought she was depressed for a couple years before they finally diagnosed schizophrenia.

[tandot]

33. some people suffering from major depression also have psychosis:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000933.htm

Major depression with psychotic features

"The symptoms of psychotic depression are a combination of symptoms of depression and psychosis. This condition occurs when a depressed person loses touch with reality and hallucinates or experiences delusions.

The content of these delusions and hallucinations can be consistent with depression. For example, some people hear voices criticizing them, telling them that they are inadequate or evil, or telling them that they don't deserve to live and should kill themselves. Psychotic depression requires immediate medical attention to prevent self-harm or harm to others."

----------------
However, if he was on anti-depressants, it might have caused his behavior. I posted above: Most antidepressants come with a warning that they might cause suicidal behavior (FDA regulation).

[kestrel91316]

37. Thank you. Those of who "get it" have plenty of experience with

this nasty disease.

My mom has suffered for decades with it. Now her stroke-related dementia predominates, and she is on antipsychotics, so delusions are the least of our worries.

[pitohui]

54. will, he could also be bipolar (type w. delusions)-- it would explain the drug reaction

a friend of mine was originally DX'd as clinically depressed, had a violent reaction to prozac, re-DX'd as schizophrenic, treatment with those meds (i don't know what they are) did nothing, eventually they figured out that he was bipolar

some bipolars DO have delusions (think anne heche) so it can be difficult to distinguish from schizophrenia w.out lots of observation

bipolars are the ones who can go manic and go on murder/suicide sprees from SSRIs, not saying this wouldn't happen w. a schizophrenic but in my personal experience i *know* it's a risk with a certain kind of delusional bipolar person

so don't "bank it" just yet, i don't think you can clearly tell schizophrenia from bipolar w.out studying the guy's reactions to the various medications and he's no longer around so we can do that

the delusional schizophrenics i have known have the same persecution ideas but all the planning (phoning in bomb threats to check out security, buying expensive weapons, etc) i dunno, i just don't see it, they could get violent and argumentative (a couple of them) but it seemed more an impulse thing of the moment, whereas the manic phrase of bipolar disorder can go on for a long time, longer than you'd think

just another speculation tho at this point

[depakid]

68. Almost certainly incorrect

The symptoms that people have reported from his behavior are not consistent with Bipolar I (or Biplor II) as defined in DSM IV-TR or with more recent Bipolar Spectrum nosology.

Whatever pathologies or personality disorders he might have had, from the facts we have at hand, we can rule bipolar out.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

16. It said "he had taken antidepressants in the past" He was OFF his meds.

As someone who has worked with Schizophrenics for several years - they HAVe to take medication and when they are off them they become psychotic.

[hiaasenrocks]

18. Thank you. Good post. That applies to depression/anxiety as well.

[piedmont]

20. If he had Bipolar disorder and was given anti-depressants alone, it could have made him manic.

Dysphorian mania isn't pretty.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

46. I had the same situation and didn't start shooting up a school.

I just wrote and worked obsessively. After 2 days, I said to myself: "Something ain't right." My shrink then put me on lithium.

[piedmont]

47. Was yours a "feeling good" mania, or an anxious, restless one?

Not all mania is the same, and not all people act the same. I have no idea if this was the case with this guy, but I think it's within the realm of possibility.

[maggiegault]

Had a relapse a month ago: crippling anxiety, paranoia, catastrophic thoughts

[piedmont]

80. That sounds awful maggie. I'm sorry you went through that. nt

[maggiegault]

Had a relapse a month ago: crippling anxiety, paranoia, catastrophic thoughts

[maggiegault]

64. Had a relapse a month ago: crippling anxiety, paranoia, catastrophic thoughts

[maggiegault]

62. Ditto. Me too. I have been manic a number of times and have never gotten violent.

[pitohui]

55. yeah, that's what caused my friend to threaten me at gunpoint

he was wrongly DX'd w clinical depression, given prozac, turned out after much hilary ensued that he was actually bipolar

he is actually on prozac now but it has to be taken in combination w. something else, i know lithium is one of the other things needed to keep him from going completely bugfuck (no medication has been found to make him normal)

[Bluerthanblue]

74. and what exactly IS 'normal'?

as its been said- 'normal' is just a setting on your dryer.

normal doesn't exist.

I'm sorry for what you went through. You might want to rethink how you describe your friend.
I'm sure he didn't enjoy the experience any more than you did.


peace,
blu

[piedmont]

81. Cognitive behavioural therapy works amazingly well for my loved one.

It's hard to find therapists who are well-trained in it, but it may be worth looking into. Meds can help some, but coping skills should be a major part of treatment.

[HughMoran]

83. "keep him from going completely bugfuck (no medication has been found to make him normal)"

judgemental often?

[varkam]

22. Not this shit again.

:eyes:

[xultar]

25. No kidding. So I suppose like me, I'm on anti-depressants I guess I'll start shootin

up the joint.


IF the MILLIONS who take it are instant shooters then we are all in a fuckin heap-o-trouble.

[tandot]

35. Not all people are affected the same by antidepressants:

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/antidepressants/AntidepressanstPHA.htm

"FDA Public Health Advisory
Worsening Depression and Suicidality in Patients
Being Treated With Antidepressant
March 22, 2004

For additional information, please see the Public Health Advisory, June, 2005

Today the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) asked manufacturers of the following antidepressant drugs to include in their labeling a Warning statement that recommends close observation of adult and pediatric patients treated with these agents for worsening depression or the emergence of suicidality. The drugs that are the focus of this new Warning are: Prozac (fluoxetine); Zoloft (sertraline); Paxil (paroxetine); Luvox (fluvoxamine); Celexa (citalopram); Lexapro (escitalopram); Wellbutrin (bupropion); Effexor (venlafaxine); Serzone (nefazodone); and Remeron (mirtazapine).

Warning Information

* Health care providers should carefully monitor patients receiving antidepressants for possible worsening of depression or suicidality, especially at the beginning of therapy or when the dose either increases or decreases. Although FDA has not concluded that these drugs cause worsening depression or suicidality, health care providers should be aware that worsening of symptoms could be due to the underlying disease or might be a result of drug therapy.

* Heath care providers should carefully evaluate patients in whom depression persistently worsens, or emergent suicidality is severe, abrupt in onset, or was not part of the presenting symptoms, to determine what intervention, including discontinuing or modifying the current drug therapy, is indicated.

* Anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, impulsivity, akathisia (severe restlessness), hypomania, and mania have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric. Although FDA has not concluded that these symptoms are a precursor to either worsening of depression or the emergence of suicidal impulses, there is concern that patients who experience one or more of these symptoms may be at increased risk for worsening depression or suicidality. Therefore, therapy should be evaluated, and medications may need to be discontinued, when symptoms are severe, abrupt in onset, or were not part of the patient’s presenting symptoms.

---> more at above link

-----------------


I am glad they are helping you. My sister is on antidepressant and it also helped her greatly.

[Sapere aude]

38. I think that this current FDA is not one I would have trusted with a warning like this.

Before 2000 I might have taken it more seriously. I was very suspicious of this warning because just before it there was a campaign on wing nut talk radio against mental health drugs in general. It was the idea that kids use to tough it out way back when now we just drug them because the public school teacher is lazy.

I don't think that these warnings were based on studies but more on right wing ideology. Of course I may be full of shit too.

[tandot]

41. Why would this administration do anything that could harm the pharmaceutical industry?

Republicans get huge $$$ from them.

[Sapere aude]

42. That's a good question. Possibly to gain more support from the right wing fundies.

The warnings did not really hurt the pharmaceutical industries much I think.

[phylny]

79. No, we'll be balanced out by the millions of other people who all have

guns for self protection, as it should be according to some ardent gun enthusiasts.

[stillcool]

26. any time a new psych drug is introduced...

into one's system there will be effects...which is why one starts out on a small dosage and gradually builds up. I don't know about the mental health industry in all the different states, but I do know that in several a prescription for any psych drug necessitates some kind of counseling or therapy. While I am no fan of big-pharma, or the FDA, psych drugs have a positive effect on many, many people...which I would think lessen the frequency of 'going postal' type situations. Unfortunately many who need help the most are reluctant to get it. Abuse of the mental health industry by advertising and over-prescribing does not help. It minimizes some serious conditions, and distorts the need that some people have for psych medications.

[geardaddy]

30. I heard the factors were:

rap music
GM foods
Cell phones
and the disappearance of honey bees.

[mike_c]

32. don't forget the Bush administration....

:rofl:

[kestrel91316]

34. If he was on antidepressants then this killing spree is merely evidence that they

didn't help him.

He was nuts enough to kill people as it was. The meds didn't cause it. Just my humble take on it.........

[pitohui]

57. you have absolutely no way of knowing that

we cannot postulate that drugs powerful enough to change brain chemistry never "really" change brain chemistry

i know from personal experience that prozac can cause someone who is normally law abiding but suffering from bipolar disorder to pick up a gun

we like to pretend that we are all powerful and our strong will would prevent us from doing anything we wouldn't want to do, the truth is that drugs can change some people, illness (alzheimer's for example) can change some people, getting hit on the wrong part of the skull can change some people -- the brain is fragile

some small percentage of the population will have a bad reaction to any drug that is powerful enough to actually make changes in the brain

it doesn't mean the drugs shouldn't be used, of course they should be used for the millions of people for which they work properly

however, since we know that brain chemistry can be very individual, we need to be aware of the possibility that someone can have a bad reaction

we would never deny that a drug might have a bad physical side effect, no use pretending a drug couldn't have a bad mental side effect

drugs can and DO make people do things they normally wouldn't or couldn't, USUALLY the change is positive, ask anyone who has been helped by treatments for social phobia, but life don't come w. any guarantees

[politicat]

39. Misdiagnosis, rather than the drug, would be the problem.

Schizophrenics who are misdiagnosed and treated with anti-depressants have a slightly elevated risk of self-destructive behaviors. (APA, April 2004). Usually, that means self-harm, up to and including suicide, but self-destructive behaviors rarely mean harming others first. Basically, what the article said was medicating with antidepressants won't *cause* misdiagnosed schizophrenics to act out, but the medications aren't helpful, and don't control the disorder enough to prevent self-harm (or other harm.) Since the study focused on people who were previously treated for depression and later re-diagnosed with schizophrenia, it's far from conclusive but it's a place to start.

Schizophrenia is significantly more common in young men than in young women, shows up mostly between the ages of 16 and 25, and is more common in sons of older men.

[fishnfla]

45. Extra credit to the mindless speculation poster too

I'm starting to think the internet was invented for bullshit.

[Lilith Velkor]

52. Bad news travels fast

Bullshit travels faster than light. :crazy:

[Beausoir]

59. Too right. I didn't realize it was a game show.

I'll take long distance medical diagnosis for $500, Alec.

[loyalsister]

56. I'm begging

Posted in another thread>>

Out of respect for your fellow humans and avoidance of stereotypes, I would hope that in this forum we would do our best to avoid armchair diagnoses.
There will be so much speculation and so much controversy that we need not drag our friends and the stigma that already exists into it.

No assumption of ill will intended.

I am trying to avoid any controversy as much as possible.

[lins the liberal]

65. personal experience...pysch drug hell

Benzos (minor tranquilizers) turned my world upside down. I only thought I had anxiety and panic before I tried tapering off of benzos. The anxiety and panic is 100 times worse, even though I have been off nearly a year. Many people also experience a lot of physical problems when tapering off benzos and post taper...to include muscle aches, high blood pressure, rapid heart beat, stomach problems, dizziness to name just a few. Some people also have a lot of trouble getting off of antidepressants and also the antipsychotics.

I know of people who can no longer work, who have to use a walker because their balance is so off, some who have lost down to less than 100 pounds from not being able to eat...all due to benzos. Once a person develops tolerance and interdose withdrawal (which is hell in and of itself) there is no choice but to get off of them and stay off of them and all psych drugs, as in many people the other psych drugs tend to trigger more or worse symptoms.

[UNCLE_Rico]

69. Tapering off of Buprenorphine as we speak, I know the hell of which you speak...

It's a narcotic, not a benzo, so the symptoms are somewhat different, but equally (if not more) debilitating, painful, and catastrophically panic-inducing and depressing.

It's a fact, however, that Benzo's are medically the MOST dangerous of anything (except perhaps full-blown barbiturates like Seconal) to come off of in terms of the risk of outright death.

Hell, you know when a guy like Iggy Pop says that he had the hardest time getting off prescription drugs vs. anything else - that is a man who knows of whence he speaks!

[lins the liberal]

75. Good luck with your taper

Welcome to DU UNCLE_rico!

The hell of which we speak is unbelievable to many people. That sad thing about benzos being dangerous to come off of is that some doctors will just refuse to write any more prescriptions. First they insist we need to take them, get us physically dependent and then in some cases refuse to write anymore prescriptions. I was on a fairly low dose so thankfully that didn't happen to me.

[UNCLE_Rico]

66. Sounds like a little fundie wacko to me...

Lets summarize:

Rich Kids = The 'Limousine Liberal' Elite
Debauchery = Fairly described as a Biblical term for the pleasure-seeking activities of such enemies of good god-fearin' folk as 'heathens' and 'pagans'
Deceitful Charlatans = Again, charlatans is fairly described as a Biblical-era term. Might he have been referring to Da Jooooz that 'run everything' as every good little Fundie knows?

I'd think it's safe to begin speculation at this point that, besides being a psychotic and a sociopath, he just happened (I'm certainly not implying they are CAUSALLY RELATED or anything, don't get me wrong!) to be a Fundie. My money at this point would be that they find his dorm radio was tuned to whatever station in the area broadcasts the RW hate-mongers.

>>>on edit - not casually, causally!<<<

[Duer 157099]

72. (that was my first thought too)

even before I saw those quotes, but after seeing them, I was pretty sure of it, for the reasons you describe

[maxsolomon]

67. i thought the issue was SSRIs in teenagers

that the Columbine kids, and the kid in Eugene, were either on them or recently off them.

but i wouldn't really know - i just talk to my psychiatrist & meditate. he won't write me a scrip.

[debbierlus]

71. WAIT a minute - he was more likely MISDIAGNOSED

He could have been bi-polar or schizo-affective. Often, people will seek help when they are on a downturn and fail to note their manic behavior. It is very common for bi-polar patients to receive medication only for their depressive symptoms & THIS can trigger a manic episode (although some of the anti-depressants have mood stabilization qualities, a true bi-polar person will likely need a supplemental mood stabilizer to level them).

Please let's not be armchair psychologists. We don't know diddly squat about this man's case.

[Elidor]

77. Gee, it's too bad it doesn't appear to be true

Some news accounts have suggested that Cho had a history of antidepressant use, but senior federal officials tell ABC News that they can find no record of such medication in the government's files. This does not completely rule out prescription drug use, including samples from a physician, drugs obtained through illegal Internet sources, or a gap in the federal database, but the sources say theirs is a reasonably complete search.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=2

While there's room to discuss the potentially harmful side-effects of anti-depressants, such a conversation isn't going to be productive when people start it off by talking out of their asses. Better luck next time for all involved. I won't waste my breath admonishing anyone to use their brains before they post their favorite sensationalist pet theories: I know this place too damned well to believe that will ever change.

[phylny]

78. Until you can prove that he was actually TAKING MEDICATION THAT WAS

prescribed, the way it was prescribed, there should be no bonus points awarded.

Honestly. My husband has medication for high blood pressure. A prescribed medication. Want to know where it is?

In the bathroom drawer.

[HughMoran]

82. Not this again.

Why are people always looking at tragedies to promote their personal "issue"?

Apparently the media are not the only ones guilty of this behavior. :(

Antidepressants may or may not have had any effect - you have NO idea, though you are permitted to speculate if you wish.

I am wondering - have you taken antidepressants and did they make you more violent? Our entire department took them when they first became popular several years ago - not one indication of any bizarre behavior - same as it ever was. I took them - made me more mellow. JMHO.

[Nikki Stone1]

84. Sad kudos, but kudos nonetheless

:kick: