I still don't get it. Were there two gunmen? What happened in the 2 hours?

[Phillycat]

Have they said absolutely that the shooter in the dorm and the shooter in the classroom building were the same person? Because I saw the university president interviewed last night, and he said they thought they had the suspect in custody after the morning incident in the dorm, which is why they didn't evacuate the school. So, did they have him in custody? Did they release him? Or did they have someone else who turned out not to be the shooter? Or did they have the dorm shooter and then there was the other guy (Cho? the Asian guy) who actually shot up the classrooms?

And if they didn't have the guy, ever, what happened in those two hours? They sent out an email alert? What...how could that possibly be considered an appropriate response to a gunman prowling through campus?

I don't understand. Am I missing something here?

[ananda]

1. It's hard to tell, but..

.. I think there was only one shooter.
The gun and ammo in both shootings
was the same, afaik.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. The other guy thing was an excuse for why they didn't do anything for 2 hours.

They know god damn well that the whole thing could have been avoided had they put out the alert on time.

[Phillycat]

7. But...so, they KNEW they didn't have the guy?

And they just...didn't do anything? That seems impossible, doesn't it? You know there is a guy on campus who's already shot people, and you don't evacuate? I don't understand that!

When 9/11 happened, I was at college in Dover, Delaware. They evacuated THE WHOLE CITY just as a precaution (air force base), including my college. Like an hour after it happened! And this was not a particularly well-organized institution, believe me.

So either the school administration is completely incompetent, to the point that they have NO plan of action for an event like this, or there's more to the story.

[Warpy]

11. Not even close

The first crime scene was a double murder, a male and female in the same room, suggesting some sort of love triangle/domestic thing. The cops did lock the school down while they searched the immediate area. They found no one and eventually released the lockdown.

Working a crime scene like that isn't like it is on TV, where it takes only 15 minutes or so to zero in on all the evidence. It takes hours of going through journals, records, and old mail to try to find out if the victims knew the assailant and were having problems with him, as well as who the assailant was.

The nutcase walked the half mile to the building he seemed to hate the most and waited until the lockdown was lifted and he could go in and finish the job his insanity told him to do.

Armchair quarterbacking at this point is counterproductive. The guy was crazy and his first victims were possibly random. Whether or not it was a setup to distract the police is anyone's guess, as is the possibility that the woman was someone he'd been stalking.

Proper procedure was followed. However, nobody anticipated a total nutjob with mass murder on his mind. After all, given the nature of the first scene, why should they?

[Phillycat]

15. All of that makes sense, and I'm NOT trying to armchair quarterback...

I know they had to figure out what happened. But in the meantime, WHY didn't they evacuate the campus? Is that not something they do in these situations? And if not, why not? They knew the two pieces of information they needed to make that decision:

1. There were people shot dead on the campus
2. They didn't have the killer in custody

Just as a precaution, why wouldn't they have evacuated? I'm honestly asking!

[Warpy]

17. Not for a love triangle shooting with specifically targeted

victims, which is what they thought they had. A guy who was in a homicidal rage because some woman DARED to dump him is not likely to target anybody else besides her and her new boyfriend.

[Phillycat]

18. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

Still seems weird, though. 2 hours seems like it should be long enough to have removed some of those kids from the line of fire. Perhaps more information will be revealed later that will make the timeline more understandable. :shrug:

[One_Life_To_Give]

19. Evacuation not realistic option

VT's a big school and big campus. Your talking about moving 40,000 people out of town. Can you imagine evacuating Dorchester every time there is a murder there? Where would you send the people to? And then your just as likely to have the gunman in the middle of the crowd of evacuees.

[Phillycat]

35. There's a difference between a TOWN and a SCHOOL.

VT is very large and I'm sure it would be difficult. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have TRIED. They had dead students and no one in custody with a murder weapon. They should have done SOMETHING for two hours. Is there a main road coming into campus? Couldn't they have posted a cop or security guard there, to turn commuters away? Shouldn't they have canceled classes? There are hundreds of things they could have done. Instead, they sent an email. On a server that then crashed. Does that seem like an adequate response to you? In two and a half hours?

[One_Life_To_Give]

37. Open Campus

The streets thru campus are the Town/City Roads.
From the VT Map looks like about a dozen roadway intersections around the main section of "Campus".

Also the Students are not kids. (Not really adults either, but)
You can recommend they stay inside. Close the building and throw them into the street.

Cancel classes for everyone? Can be done but I wouldn't have thought it any more necessary than closing a small town because of a shooting. Close off an area sure, but 60+ major buildings, a couple of main roads thru the town?

Maybe the police should have found additional evidence to suggest something more in that 2 hours. But on the surface this doesn't look like it rates such a dramatic response. Two people killed and can't locate the perpetrator in the immediate vicinity. 15+ minutes and more bodies are not showing up. Sounds like this "event" has run it's course.

As to the Campus community and the community at large. What should be said to them, when and to accomplish what? I don't know that telling them I have two dead bodies in a dorm will make them any safer. Keep them from focusing on their studies sure, but change their behavior?

[senaca]

40. why not in those hours have one security member to guard in each building.

Until the person with the gun is found why didn't they try to have a guard or police officer guard each building from the inside? There was ample time within the two hours to try and secure each building. If the problem is from within then the person will be found. If the person is coming from without then the building is secured. The people in the buildings would be on their guard. Not sitting ducks at least. Amber alerts could also be used on the highways as students are driving to campus.

[One_Life_To_Give]

43. Not enough Cops

At most between VT and the City they had 60 people in Uniform on a single Monday morning. And the City isn't likely to put all of it's officers in to protect only the Campus and not leave a reserve to handle it's own citizens. Of the over 100 buildings on Campus there are 60 major ones. Just not possible to put a officer inside each. Besides how often would VT police be in receipt of information that a potential killer might be loose in the area of campus. They have to weigh the risk each time. Defnding against every possible threat would require the police to maintain such a tight oversight on each and every person. That most of us pine for the liberty of Orwell's 1984.

[senaca]

59. Thanks for the article as it helps to understand the sit. better. n/t

[RagingInMiami]

64. This was not a "potential" killer

This was not a "possible" threat.

Two people had been shot to death. A gunman was at large. The threat and killer were very real.

[tigereye]

66. but they had no way of knowing what that person's intent was

when people are murdered in other settings, do the police always expect that the person will go on a rampage and kill more people afterwards? There are certainly some cases of that happening in the last 10 years in school and work settings, but how would they be able to tell that that is what was going to occur?

[RagingInMiami]

71. If there is a killer on the loose

They usually set up a perimeter and conduct a search with helicopters and dogs, not necessarily to prevent a mass shooting, but to arrest a killer.

[One_Life_To_Give]

75. Search for what?

What do you tell the helicopter to look for. Assuming there is one available in the area.
A dog is going to need something to get a scent from in order to track.

I don't see that they have either. So they would be looking for somebody to panic and run when the helicopter/dog/cruiser appeared.

Since this guy apparently walked over half a mile across a campus of 40,000 people without raising any alarms from students/faculty/staff. I suspect he looked like any other colledge student on campus.

[tigereye]

84. fair enough

[senaca]

85. How about emergency trained individuals?

They could be emt's, rotc, or anyone else with training in the event of an emergency being assigned to surveiling their designated building until the event is over. That way if they call in an emergency call it would be taken seriously. They would have first aid training etc and training to be calm under pressure. Just notifying the students that there has been a murder on campus, we think it is domestic, but to make sure that the person has been apprehended, the students should be alert. Simple instructions on what to do in class in an emergency, would empower the students and not as apt to cause panic. I am not faulting what happened. What I am trying to do is see what would be workable in an emergency situation. What do you think would work in the future?

[RagingInMiami]

55. Even in a town or city

You have a more adequate police response for a double-murder and a gunman at large. Police might not lock the town or city down, but there is enough of a police presence to send the message that there is someone dangerous roaming the streets.

[One_Life_To_Give]

58. Police presence how far from Crime Scene

When the police decend on the crime scene. How wide an area do they saturate with extra coverage?
10 block by 10 block area might have just barely reached the hall where the second shootings took place.

Also do we know for certain if the VT Police called in extra officers to beef up the presence around campus?

[RagingInMiami]

63. What cops normally do is close off the perimeters

That can be up to a half-mile or more, depending on their response time.

Yesterday, when the gunman struck for the second time, a half-mile away, it was already two hours after the first shooting. A police perimeter might have made it difficult for him to strike with such efficiency.

Maybe they did not even have a description of the suspect at this time. It hasn't been clear exactly what they knew and when they knew it. Perhaps somebody discovered the first bodies after the shooter had left and called police, leaving them clueless as to who the shooter could be.

But if that were the case, then what made them think this was a result of a lover's dispute? Was it a student that fed them that info or was it only because it was a man and a woman who had been shot?

It seems that cops were doing a lot of assuming; assuming he had left campus, assuming it was a lover's quarrel.

Meanwhile, the facts were very simple: There was a double-murder and a gunman at large on a university campus while classes were in full session.

[One_Life_To_Give]

68. What was the original police response

I guess partly it depends on what the original 911 call was. If it was shots fired then probably 6 officers were heading in that direction from VT PD and maybe a couple from the local PD. So that would give them 8 right away with another 4-6 probably within 15 minutes. 14 Cops to secure the scene, search the dorm as best they could and the surrounding area. I would hope the town moved a couple units in closer to the campus and that VT called in additional off duty personnel. ( Note as this was close to shift change VT likely had another 6 or so available to deploy.)

Even if all 20 were there in the first few minutes. 4-6 for the crime scene another 4-6 to search common areas of the dorm and provide enhanced security in the dorm. 10 to fan out and search the surrounding area. They could probably effectivly have a big presence on that side of campus. But also as time passed some would have to shift and provide some coverage for the other areas of campus.

We don't know the details of what the initial investigation found. But we do know that they were able to determine who the girls boyfriend was, what kind of car he drove and get word to area/state police that he was wanted for questioning in relation to this.

Also we don't know what the shooter did after killing his first victims. Was he hiding inside his own dorm? Had he left the dorm before the first police unit arrived? Did he blend in with the other students during this time?

[RagingInMiami]

73. Perhaps he told the cops that the shooter was the girl's boyfriend

[One_Life_To_Give]

77. That would be one cold psycho

To off two people and stand around like a witness when the cops arrive. That would be one very cold killer. I would of hoped that without some additional exculpatory evidence that the cops would keep a closer eye on him. Maybe a dog might smell the powder residue from firing the gun? Certainly there are chemical tests that can determine that.

But if he was that cold a killer and the cops missed it. Well he could of made that second strike anytime, anywhere.

[Warpy]

28. They didn't think anybody else was in the line of fire

How could they? They had a love triangle shooting.

They'd cleared the building and the grounds on that side of campus.

Remember, hindsight is the only sight that's really 20/20. Every officer and official must be sick about this. They did nothing wrong. They did it by the book. They just didn't know how crazy the shooter really was.

[riderinthestorm]

44. I heard that the cops thought the first scene was a murder/suicide

so they believed the perp was dead on the floor.

They hadn't had time to sift through the evidence and work the investigation to know that they had a different shooter and that the first crime scene was a murder/murder.

Personally I believe Cho came to confront the girl, discovered the guy in the room with her (perhaps in bed together), and went batshit. I would guess he went back to his own dorm then, wrote his crazy rants, and then took off for round two of shooting everyone else.

[RagingInMiami]

53. Did they find a murder weapon at the first scene?

If not, I don't see how they could even begin to call it a murder/suicide.

[Phillycat]

54. Exactly, there was no gun.

What did the guy do, shoot his girlfriend and then while he was dying from his own gunshot wound (in the head), hide the gun?

[RagingInMiami]

56. This was a huge blunder by the cops

This will result in lawsuits and terminations and resignations.

[riderinthestorm]

74. Oh no doubt they fucked up. I'm just telling you what I heard on the news as I was driving that day

I can't even begin to imagine what was going on at the actual scene that really delayed notification: perhaps a fight between the campus cops and the local sheriff over who was going to conduct the investigation, who was coordinating the search etc. Perhaps someone believed the weapon was lying underneath one of the victims which was why they initially thought murder/suicide, who knows?

I just know I heard it here on a Chicago news station that they were attributing the delay in clearing the campus to a supposition by the police that it was a murder/suicide, instead of a murder/murder.

I have to admit that evacuating the campus would probably not have been in the cards. I would guess that they didn't plan ahead for this contingency (not trying to excuse them ala Condi Rice: who-could-guess-they-would-use-planes-as-bombs?).

[tigereye]

67. what I had read is that the shooter was arguing with his ex

and the RA tried to protect her and was shot.

[One_Life_To_Give]

69. Doesn't explain her boyfriend being brought in

Since they picked up the female victims boyfriend on his way to work that morning. I don't think they thought murder suicide. Or at least not for very long. Or they wouldn't have put out word to have that guy brought in for questioning.

[RagingInMiami]

52. They had nobody in custody

There was a killer at large.

They had assumed he left campus. Assumed he left campus.

Usually in these situations, a BOLO (Be on the Lookout) is put out. You have cops on every corner. Police helicopters in the air. Police dogs on the ground. Other police agencies joining the search.

But all this attracts the media. Unwanted attention. Not the best press for a university.

[SquireJons]

80. Where are you getting this information?

It would seem to contradict the information that has been given out so far by both the school president and the police. I do hope you're right, because otherwise it's criminal negligence.

On the other hand, you're whole scenario hinges on the murder/suicide theory, and unless Cho was a whole lot cleverer than the homicide investigators, it should have been apparent that they were dealing with a double murder with the shooter on the loose. In that case they totally flubbed it.

No where that I've read have they said that the school was locked down. Only part of that dorm was locked down from what I've read.

[Canuckistanian]

82. That's the first sensible analysis I've seen so far.

The shooter was picking random targets.

SO random, in fact, it threw off law enforcement who promptly began looking for connections. Which took time.

Time enough for the shooter to lie low and plan his next stage.

He wasn't stupid. And he wasn't about to be stopped from his "mission".

[whistle]

16. Well issue alerts plus set up police check points in mass surrounding the area

....of the dorm where the first shootings occurred plus alerts to all campus classes to be on the watch for suspicious looking characters. But with no description to go on and no eye witnesses to the actual shooting at 7:15 am I could very well understand why the campus police might have held back issuing any kind of general alert which might have created panic or hysteria.

The police who arrived at the site of the first shooting thought they had a suspect which was the first female victim's boyfriend who was apprehended driving away from the campus at around 7:45am. He was pulled over on one of the major highways, handcuffed, questioned but then released shortly before the second and more lethal round of shootings began. As far as I've heard so far no connection between the victims boyfriend and the dead shooter has been established.

[Ahpook]

62. Yeah..

I also heard at the first that they couldn't ID the bastard because he shot his face off. Can't do that with weapons he was supposedly carrying.

Why does everything have to be a damn lie in this country?

Could have been a matter of confusion, but they said his face was off so they couldn't tell who he was. Seems now that was BS?

[Xenotime]

3. he was buying another gun

[Phillycat]

4. Really? Or are you being facetious?

[trumad]

5. I believe he was being facetious

[Xenotime]

9. Sorry, I was being silly

But you can get guns so quickly, it could have happened.

[conscious evolution]

48. He might not have gone to buy a gun

but I would bet that he spent the two hours arming himself to the teeth for when the cops came to get him.When they didn't show he took his insanity on the road.

[RagingInMiami]

65. Remember when Homer Simpson was trying to buy a gun and was told there was a 3-day waiting period?

"But I'm mad now," he responded.

That was so funny.

[napi21]

6. Yes there was only one shooter. They confirmed that this morning.

One of the reasons they wouldn't confirm it yesterday was because they were waiting for the fingerprint & ballistics test results to be completed. Those two test confirmed the shooter was the same person.

As to the 2 hours, they're still trying to reconstruct what really happened and what he was doing in that time. I know 2 hours sounds like a long time, but in reality, it's not. I read one report that said it's a 25+ minute walk across the campus from the dormwhere the first 2 seople were killed and the classroom building. Remember this guy took the time to chain the exit dooors shut so no one could excape & no one could get in either. That takes time...not a lot, but 10 maybe 15 minutes. During the time this nut was walking from one building to the other, the police were interviewing witnesses and trying to find out what really happened. THAT takes a lot of time too!

[Phillycat]

8. I hear you.

And what you're saying makes sense. But I still feel like, if you have people who are shot and dead on your college campus, and you know you don't have the shooter in custody, you evacuate, right? Immediately? I don't know the procedure, but I know even before the cops have the facts straight, they still will respond to an immediate threat first before they interview people, etc. It's like if they entered a house where there was an armed robbery, and they started interviewing the homeowners before they even checked the house to make sure the shooter was gone! You know?

[napi21]

20. You're right about the hose, but thissituation is quite different.

I can't recall all the specs, but this campus is 26+ acres, over 100 buildings, more than 10,000 employees, 25,000 students, and it was a time of the day when people were moving around...going or getting ready to go to class, on their way to work, getting ready for something and not listening to the radio, watching TV and not on their computer. What I've heard so far, the first thingthey did was notify all the Resident leaders (or whatever they called them) and told them to notify everyone in the dorms. I can't recall for sure, but I think they notified everyone of the shooting, and told all to stay away from the crime site dorm, but since they believed this was a domestic violence situation, it's not usual that the danger would spread to other areas of the campus.


Yes, AFTER THE FACT, we all realize they were wrong, but you really can't look at it that way. That would be like finding a domestic violence situation in a private home wehre the husband killed his wife and kids, and assume you have to evacuate the entire neighborhood. Is it possible that husband could go on a neighborhood cilling spree? YES! But it rarely if ever happens sothat's just not what the police do.

[librechik]

60. I'm picking up that they think he might have gone to his dormroom and changed

one of the reporters asked if there were bloody clothes at the dorm but the police spokesman wouldn't talk much about the evidence they found, said it was mainly documents at this time. But that got me thinking about the 2 hrs and what Cho did.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. As far as I know

The first shooting at the dorm (2 dead ) was considered by the police to be
part of a domestic dispute and the suspect had fled the scene so they
did not feel it necessary to close the entire campus.

Unfortunately they did not know where the suspect in the initial murders had fled to
so they really should have locked down the campus but hindsight is
always 20-20 maybe in the future any on campus shootings will cause an automatic lock down.

[Phillycat]

12. I would think it would cause an automatic EVACUATION.

That would be my first instinct, wouldn't it be yours? "There's a killer on the loose, and we don't have him in custody. Let's get all these kids out of here!"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. According to your profile, you're from Philadelphia.

Do you evacuate Philadelphia every time there's a shooting?

[Phillycat]

24. At a school? Um, YEAH.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. At a large school, with filled thousands of people.

Basically, it's a small city.

[Phillycat]

29. So it would be difficult.

But certainly not impossible. And not only wasn't it tried, NOTHING was tried. Except an email. On a server which then crashed.

They didn't have a PA system? They didn't have people who could make announcements in classrooms and dorms? Their phones weren't working? Worse came to worst, they couldn't just jog over to the next building and tell someone?

[Midlodemocrat]

27. There are over 2000 acres at Tech and 26,000 students.

Evacuating would be humanly impossible.

[Phillycat]

30. You're right. An email was the perfect solution.

:eyes:

[Midlodemocrat]

32. As someone who received numerous phone calls and emails

yesterday morning from kids there, :eyes: back at ya.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SquireJons]

81. Not an evacuation, but a lock down...

That's what they're supposed to do.

Or nothing, take your pick.

[Phillycat]

13. delete dupe

[Phillycat]

14. delete dupe

[napi21]

23. I have a question about a campus lock down.

I'm too damn old to even visualize what that might be like, so let me ask you. If there was a way to issue a complete campus lock down, what exactly would that mean? Nobody comes in and nobody leaves? OK. But this shooter was a student! Could he not have just explained he was on his way to class and continue on to the classrooms?

As I understand it, at this time of the day you had a lot of students aqnd employees walking to class, and employees moving about on their way to whatever they did.

I'm just trying to understand how something like a proposed "lockdown" would work. It's much different than a lockdown at a highschool where you are dealing with one or two buildings and can have total control.

[senaca]

25. What type of warning system could campus's use to help alert students better?

That is a key question that should and hopefully will be brainstormed and then implemented. There will always be someone like a rabid dog who will eventually try something like this. Emergency events like tornado's are much the same. They are few and far between but preparation can help save lives. Perhaps an amber type signs and warning sirens around the campus. Sure the person intent on harm would be notified, but so would his potential victims. Perhaps the warning would act as a deter ant. Emails would not seem to be the best way to convey warnings of this type. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[lizerdbits]

31. It would be difficult on a large campus.

I graduated from VT 10 years ago and actually lived in the dorm where the first shooting occurred. They could have made an effort by canceling classes, stopping the BT (bus service), and even blocking parking lot entrances. But I don't know how easy it would be to keep everyone in the dorms. When I was there after a certain time at night all but the main entrance door would be locked. After that you had to show ID to someone at the entrance to get in. I don't think the doors lock from the inside normally but maybe it's possible to do that. If you can't physically lock people in the building you would have to have security/police outside every entrance of every dorm.

Even if that's possible they guy probably would just have gone postal in his dorm he was locked in instead of an academic building. Different people would be dead and then there would be criticism for having a lockdown probably.

[One_Life_To_Give]

41. Not sure about legality of locking them in

Primary and secondary school is one thing. But here these are all legally adults. And the public thruway is just a few feet outside the door.

[lizerdbits]

46. Good point

I thought I remembered reading they temporarily locked down AJ Hall right after the murder. Am I mistaken? I'm trying to work and stay updated at the same time and my mind is getting fuzzy.

[One_Life_To_Give]

57. Probably declared it a crime scene

That would give them certain legal rights in controlling the flow of people and material into/out of/ and thru the facility. The problem is in trying to apply it over what is really a small town. You would need to declare the entire campus and all public ways thru it a crime scene. Curtain it off with 4-8 miles of crime scene tape as it needs to be posted every 50 ft or so. Then bring in an extra couple hundred cops to help enforce it.

Then hire a bunch of lawyers to deal with the legal issues. Should be plenty of suits about unlawfull detainment, abuse of power, etc. And if the gunman doesn't kill 30+ people in a classroom. Expect DU to be chiming in about the Fascist State and it's poicies of Terror, Terror, Terror.

[lizerdbits]

83. Gotcha

Just the dorm was closed due to it being a crime scene but they can't lock everyone in all dorms without all of them being crime scenes. I see the problem with locking down the entire campus from a legal standpoint. They still could have canceled classes but, as before, if this guy was going to go berserk he just would have done it in the dorm he lived in instead of classrooms so I'm not sure that would have prevented the second shooting spree- it just would be different people who wound up dead. There was an incident last year where a prisoner escaped from a nearby hospital after killing two people and I think all they did was cancel classes and issued a warning but I'm not 100% sure. And that's a different scenario because a crime wasn't committed on campus and they were trying to protect students from an outside threat.

[Phillycat]

47. Of course it's legal to detain anyone until they determine if there is an

immediate threat. Cops do it all the time at scenes of public disturbance.

[One_Life_To_Give]

51. Not to detain 40,000 at once

Detaining 40,000 people spead over 100+ buildings and a couple square miles. They have 2 chances, slim and none. Not to mention that I doubt the ACLU would look to highly on suspending the rights of citizens enmass for such reasons.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. It seems to me...

that a school lock down is the sort of thing that might be practical if you had a shooter outside school, and suspected of moving towards it. Already inside and moving out? Not so much.

[ends_dont_justify]

22. The sad answer is...those people were sacrificed.

The cops figured that if they secured the building, he may go after individuals he knew off campus...it's harder to trace a serial killer who lurks in the shadows if you know nothing. They were waiting to see if he came back...unfortunately, they had absolutely no game plan after that.

[theboss]

38. This wasn't a serial killer

And I don't think that was the theory behind it.

[Javaman]

36. I'm staying with the lone gunman theory on this one. nt

[theboss]

39. I don't think locking down the campus is feasible.

It would be like locking down a small city.

I do think that there should have been a better alert system in place though.

I have no idea what that system would be.

[etherealtruth]

42. When I was in school ....

(I never faced anything even close to this) We would occasionally have tornado warnings in the area ... emails were sent, in addition instructors were contacted in the classrooms (via telephone), by the department administrative staff and announcements were made in all common areas (library, student union, stores....)and in the dorms ... A very large proportion of the student body and staff was contacted and was aware of the concern ... and huddled in interior halls on lower levels. (my college had approx. 20,000 students, a large proportion of which were commuters)

I have some pretty strong concerns over the time elapsed between the shootings ... EVEN IF the authorities thought it was a "domestic" murder, they did not have the guy in custody ... it is not inconceivable that someone that snapped and killed a lover ... may feel that they have nothing left to lose ... its happened before.

[Phillycat]

45. Exactly.

They should have taken more precautions, not having either the murderer or the gun in custody.

[etherealtruth]

49. Sadly ....

I am sure they realize it now.

Maybe it would have prevented the tragedy, or minimized it ... maybe it wouldn't have ... I am sure they wish they had made different choices now.

Hopefully, campuses are scrutinizing their emergency policies.

[swimboy]

50. I heard they were interviewing a "person of interest"

at the time the second incident began. They were following up on the protocol of the situation as they understood it. They couldn't follow all protocols for all possible situations.

Virginia Tech is an enormous school, so there is no "jogging over to the other building" and no PA system such as public secondary schools have.

It's early for any of us, particularly those of us not in public safety to second guess the actions of the police. A lot of rumors and indignation will be swirling because of the enormity of events. Best to watch and read for a while.

[LostinVA]

70. And, as I stated in another thread re: the August shooting at Tech

The campus police quickly did into lockdown mode, protected the students and helped capture the escaped convict/shooter. They were rightfully lauded for their actions. This was a different situation.

Having been on Tech's campus, I can say it's sprawling, with 30,000+ students, faculty, and staff. And, since the young man lived in the dorm, there still would have been victims, maybe more or maybe less. The only thing different would have been the names of the dead.

Good post, Swimboy.

[Midlodemocrat]

72. Silly, swimboy. It's easier and better to point fingers than deal with facts.

Good to see you, sweetie!

[Jamastiene]

61. Evacuation is the worst idea in a situation where a gunman

is on the loose shooting up the place. There would have been an even worse massacre if they had done that. A lockdown would have been a good idea, perhaps, but an evacuation would have been pandemonium and the shooter would have had a higher kill count had they tried evacuation instead. They should have had a lock down. If there was anything they could have done, that would have been it, not evacuation.

[SquireJons]

76. Three New Job Postings in Blacksburg, Va.

Very soon there will be vacancies in three positions in Blacksburg, Virginia. They are, in order of vacancy:

President of School, Virginia Tech.
Chief of Police, Blacksburg Virginia
Chief of Police, Virginia Tech.

School President Steger had a responsibility to protect students and faculty at the university, and he clearly was negligent in not informing the entire school and surrounding area after two people were found shot to death in a campus dorm and a gunman was known to be loose. They had no idea where the shooter was, so they should not have assumed that he left the campus. They should have immediately called the police and locked down the campus, and informed those still on the way to stay away via radio and TV. Ironically, they had a trial run for this event last August, and they did the right thing that time, but not this time and the results were not only tragic, but also criminally negligent and led to the greatest massacre in US history. And all but two of the deaths were completely preventable. How was Cho allowed to walk around an unprepared campus two hours after he had murdered two people in his dorm? Any competent police force would have quickly identified Cho as a person of interest. This wasn't totally out of the blue for him. Which leads us to...

The so far unidentified chief of police in Blacksburg Virginia, who apparently doesn't have a police department that can professionally respond to a double murder. He needs to go, and now.

And the third job opening should be the chief of police at Virginia Tech. He may have been overruled about how to respond, but if he went along with this tepid response that lead to an additional 45 people being shot, and 30 of them killed, he's in the wrong job too. It isn't just about hastling college kids about drinking, speeding and bongs. On campus, real crimes happen; people get raped, beat up and robbed. And now this. Universities the size of Tech are small cities with 26,000 people. Barney Fife doesn't cut it anymore.

This may seem like my rant, but the parents of almost 50 young people will demand accountability, and they won't be denied.

[riderinthestorm]

78. Great rant but a small quibble

Cho didn't perform the initial shootings in his dorm. He was at another dorm. If he had done them within his own "community", I suspect a lot of suspicion would have fallen his way immediately since he was a known person who was known to act very strange. But he wasn't in his own "community".

[SquireJons]

79. ahhh... I thought it was his dorm.

My bad, but still that doesn't excuse the inaction that followed for nearly three hours. If my kid had died in that engineering building, I'd be looking for blood.