LDS leader: religious freedom at risk

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

The anti-Mormon backlash after California voters overturned gay marriage last fall is similar to the intimidation of Southern blacks during the civil rights movement, a high-ranking leader in the LDS Church says in a speech to be delivered Tuesday.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks refers to gay marriage as an "alleged civil right" in remarks prepared for delivery at Brigham Young University-Idaho, a speech officials from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints describe as a significant commentary on current threats to religious freedom.

... Elder Oaks' address comes as gay-rights activists mount a legal challenge to Proposition 8, the ballot measure that overturned gay marriage in California. His comments about civil rights are likely to anger gay rights activists who consider the struggle to enact same-sex marriage laws as a major civil rights cause.

In an interview Monday before the speech, Elder Oaks said he did not consider it provocative to compare the treatment of LDS Church members in the election's aftermath to that of blacks in the civil rights era, and said he stands by the analogy.

... Some of the most pointed comments in Elder Oaks' Tuesday address focus on Proposition 8. Elder Oaks said the free exercise of religion is threatened by those who believe it conflicts with "the newly alleged 'civil right' of same-gender couples to enjoy the privileges of marriage."

Read more: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8297467

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. So the oppressor is claiming the status of the slaves...

typical Mormon bullshit.


Sorry, elder Oaks - you are the KKK of the civil rights movement, not the blacks.

[roguevalley]

31. these buffoons are after me, sending girl missionaries to my house

over and over. Each time I throw this in their faces and they gasp. I want them to go away. This should do it.

[jgraz]

2. Translation: freedom to hate at risk

Can't we just build a big fence and turn Utah into a Mormon game preserve?

[MadMaddie]

3. Yawn!! They want the freedom to attack other groups they

deem inferior but when the oppressed fight back now LDS claims they are the victims! No sympathy here...I hope it comes back 100 times back on them.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. Went through Salt lake City when I was 17 ,Of all the places I've ever seen

I felt most like an alien there.

[Jokinomx]

46. I lived in Salt Lake for 12 years... and as a screaming liberal...

I still found that I loved the state and it's people. We(my wife and I) were always respected as much as we showed respect. I of course often disagreed with the way with most in the state felt... I still enjoyed my time there.

--
Once a couple had to leave their beloved hometown because of financial reasons. They were to move to a distant city where they knew no one. They heard that a wise man lived there and went to meet him. When they finally arrived they asked the wise man what kind type of town and people lived here. He responded with a question. "What type of town was the one you just came from?" They answered "It was a wonderful town, filled with good people. We hated to leave but were forced to find adequate work." He said "Well, you will find the same type of people here."

The following day a second couple arrived in the same town and also found the same wise man. They also asked him about the town and it's people. The wise man again responded with the same question..."How do you feel about the town they had arrived from?" They responded,
"It was terrible, the people were rude and untrustworthy, the town was run poorly and they couldn't wait to get out." The wise man said "Well, you might as well continue on to the next town as the people here were just like those from their previous town."

....

Peace

[orpupilofnature57]

50. Salt city ,was geographically breath taking ,we were treated like gold

this was 1975 ,A clean beautiful Y.M.C.A ,besides the fact it took almost 2 days to get a ride out ,I personally had no problem ,It was just a very different place.

[truthisfreedom]

5. What a bizarre, convoluted argument. I guess when you start out with a few screws loose,

it's easy to loosen up the rest of them.

[LuvNewcastle]

6. When we have bombed-out LDS churches

and LDS missionaries hanging from trees, I'll listen to his argument. To compare the plight of the Mormon church to that of Southern blacks in the '60s is disgusting. Someone might want to refresh my memory, but I think that Mormons didn't even allow blacks in their churches back then.

[Kolesar]

9. Sons of Cain

or so I remember from a hit piece in Penthouse

[Gormy Cuss]

10. They were allowed in as second class members until a "revelation" in 1978.

Blacks couldn't be in the priesthood either.

The Elder looks old enough to remember that period first hand. Shame on him.

[KansDem]

7. TS, Oaks. "Religious freedom" for you means being able to influence the political process...

...with secret funding!

I hope you shit your magic underwear over this.

[Tempest]

8. This from a cult with a racist past

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_9497769

[EFerrari]

12. And how "past" is a matter of opinion. n/t

[kestrel91316]

15. Exactly. Utah Mormon society is still EXTREMELY racist, sexist, and of

course homophobic.

[Ian David]

11. Awww.. they're such VICTIMS! All they want is to spend millions of dollars to hurt people. n/t

[kestrel91316]

13. The same LDS Church that got the legislature in UT to pass the infamous

SUNDAY CLOSING LAW that got overturned for being a blatant violation of separation of church and state, back in the early 70's???

Cry me a fuckin' river.

:nopity:

[uhhuh]

14. Being Mormon Is A Choice

You can't choose your race, but nobody is born Mormon. Now I don't care what anyone does in the privacy of their own home, but I can't just stand by when these LDS freaks shove their lifestyle right in my face! You always seem them riding down the streets in pairs, with their short sleeve dress shirts and magic underwear, just trying to make sure everyone sees them. They are trying to make everyone accept what they are doing! Even Children!?!?!!!!!

If they would just keep to themselves and not try to make everyone accept what they are doing, they would be fine, but when they enter the public arena, and ask for "special Rights" to discriminate against others, they should expect to be pushed back! They are destroying America with their bizarre lifestyle. Not everybody is just going to let that pass...

[mitchum]

21. Nicely done!

very nicely done :)

[CreekDog]

16. When I lived in Utah my religious freedom was at risk

I heard enough stories about whether they could see the eternal smile through your dress shirt to know that I might have trouble landing a good job out there if I wasn't LDS.

[harry_pothead]

17. When "Elder" Oaks ascends to godhood and gets his own planet, he can make society however he wants.

Until then, he can live with the backlash.

[QC]

20. +1

[mitchum]

18. Bullshit whining from the super secret treehouse

[nolabear]

19. *snrk* *snik* *snort* BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

Oh yeah, NOBODY knows the troubles they've seen.

[customerserviceguy]

22. While all of the above comments have a great deal of truth

here's another one to consider: The Mormons have been the recipients of the greatest amount of "official" violation of the First Amendment when it comes to freedom of religion. Yes, it happened a looooong time ago, but it's a part of their history that has been instilled in present generations.

If you don't believe me, look up the Supreme Court's decision of Reynolds v. United States from 1879, which held that the practice of polygamy was not protected under the First Amendment, and the more recent case of The Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. United States from 1890, which held that a law passed to deprive Mormons of their property for practicing polygamy was Constitutionally valid.

Yes, the Mormons have a history of being anti-black, and a present-day mentality of being anti-gay, but I challenge anyone here to find out where the "freedom of religion" clause of the First Amendment has been so completely voided as it related to a religious practice. That's a big part of the pronouncement today.

[orpupilofnature57]

24. I tried to speak to a Black man ,in Salt lake city and he shewed us away in fear of our safety

He said that as a Black person he could only go to a certain station in heaven ,Racist?Any religion that fundamentally breaks the law ,should not enjoy the first Amendment.

[marshall]

28. And ironically, in California they were allies for the Proposition

In all the focus on the LDS church's roll in this, the concerted action of African American churches is lost in the mix.

[orpupilofnature57]

34. Positively Correct! as soon as a church takes part in anything but worship

and supporting That church ,they become Fundamentalists.Fundamentalist move away from Christianity as soon as they weigh in politically.

[customerserviceguy]

37. It is not fundamentally against the law

for a religion to state absurdities about what happens in it's afterlife scenarios. What matters is how people are treated politically, when it comes to freedom. I don't seem to recall Utah being the source of much of the racial tension in this country, that's emerged from not only the South, but from Northeastern states, as well.

Every religion has its categories of "this set of people/souls = good, this other set of people/souls = bad," it's all a matter of which group of "bad" is also considered so by the general public.

[mbperrin]

39. Little bit of a hate crime problem there in Utah.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4643639

Hate crimes in Utah nearly double in a year
October 28th, 2008 @ 6:00pm
By Nicole Gonzales
Hate crimes rose in Utah last year according to new FBI statistics. But nationally, hate crimes have decreased, although crimes targeting people because of their sexual orientation are up.


At first glance the numbers here in Utah are astonishing. In 2007, 20 more hate crimes were reported to the FBI than in 2006. There were 35 hate crimes in Utah in 2006. Last year, it went up to 55.

[customerserviceguy]

53. What you're likely seeing is a rise in reporting

From your own article: Valerie Larabee, with the Utah Pride Center, said she often got calls from victims, but they don't want to report it. "Because they haven't come out to their friends and family, and they don't want to lose everything in their surroundings because they're outed," Larabee said.

That is probably changing because of the leadership of former Utah governor Jon Huntsman, Jr. He's not a tool of the Mormon church (even though he's LDS) and has supported civil rights legislation for gays and lesbians. The same Valerie Larabee has said that he's fair-minded on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues over the years.

http://www.365gay.com/news/utahs-gay-community-honors-gov-jon-huntsman/

When serious underreporting of a type of crime has gone on, you can always expect that when an atmosphere that encourages reporting emerges, there will be a rise in the incidence of that crime.

[orpupilofnature57]

47. Excuse me but there is no racial tension ,doesn't mean that racists

aren't prevalent ,it means their unopposed.There wasn't racial tensions in the antebellum south either ,,so what.

[nolabear]

27. I see your point but am astonished it's used to complain when they're

criticized for discriminating against someone else. If they were fighting for the rights of any other minority it wouldn't be so funny that they're hiding behind the metaphorical skirts of one that they've discriminated against. I know a number of people who, when they did things of which the sect disapproved, were shunned by family, friends and church. I once gave a home to a friend of my son who, when he did some minor teeneged rebelling, was simply tossed out, as was his sister. I held him while he cried and took care of him when he was sick and pleaded with his parents to act on his behalf when I had to take him (a minor) to the ER for a serious illness. I have no sympathy for that kind of meanness.

[customerserviceguy]

38. Not being able to see past your own pain in order to see the pain of others

is not limited to Mormons. I submit to you the case of African-Americans in California who voted along with the Mormons for inequality in marriage.

Any group that becomes isolated from others tends to develop a siege mentality. The persecutions that the Mormons suffered on the American frontier when it was still east of the Mississippi drove them so far away from the rest of America, that they developed a very powerful us/them mentality.

The Salt Lake City metropolitan area is still many hours driving time from the nearest other metro areas, and because about 70% of the population is nominally of one faith tradition (you cannot find any such parallel in any other part of American society) there is a further isolation from ideas of tolerance. Many young men and some of the young women in that metropolitan area become missionaries to other parts of America, where Mormons are a very small minority of the population, often a despised one. They feel relief when the mission is over, and they can come back to a predominantly LDS society. That further emphasizes the us vs. them mentality.

[KamaAina]

51. The "AAs passed Prop H8" myth was debunked long ago

and yet it keeps popping up, over and over again, in the strangest places. Curious.

[customerserviceguy]

54. It's never been debunked sufficiently enough for me

Perhaps you can point me to research to the contrary.

[Lance_Boyle]

42. I'd say the treatment of the Branch Davidians (Waco Wackos) was worse

but then the LDS is a much larger loony cult than Koresh's. Certainly much wealthier, and vastly more politically active.

[customerserviceguy]

55. That's true

and you can also point to the treatment of the FLDS folks who were led by Warren Jeffs in Texas, as well. But both of those are fairly isolated incidents, and were never given the blessing of the Supreme Court.

You can't say that Mormons had much political power 150-125 years ago. Only when they renounced polygamy (at the point of a gun) did they start assimilating into the American mainstream. Even then, it took a long time for non-Mormons to trust them, the US Senate almost refused to seat Sen. Reed Smoot because of his religious affiliation with the LDS church, even though he had only had married once. His position as an apostle within the LDS church was the reason he was challenged.

There's a long history of Congressional acts and court decisions against the Mormons. This didn't happen in the case of either the FLDS or the Branch Davidians, those were police actions from excesses of the executive branch of government, which is more prone to act in haste, without careful deliberation that would normally be the hallmark of legislative or judicial actions.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. Not as much fun when someone is infringing on your rights, is it?

A religion which actively attempts to deny equal rights for some Americans, then turning around and whining that their religious rights are at risk.

Karma, baby.

[jmondine]

25. The power to oppress others without consequence is not a "freedom"

Period.

[Roland99]

26. Yeah, being intolerant of bigots is such a horrible thing! Fucking asshat.

[IndianaGreen]

29. LDS = KKK without the sheets

Whining bigots!

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. Oh no, they have white sheets

They just wear them under their clothes, instead of on top like the Klan does.

[nealmhughes]

30. The Mormen and prosperity televisor "preachers" make me secretly wishfor a return to a 5 Mile Act.

Unfortunately , I am equally free to read my Tom Paine, yet I never claim divine origin or new revelations based on my readings, which were not dug up from a cow pasture in Upstate NY, as well as to ridicule them. Just reading the Book of the Mormen is self-punishment enough for any decent masochist to leave the whips and chains for others. I think I'll stick with the Prayer Book, as that is at least fantastic Jacobean prose.

[Vehl]

32. Why is religion poking its nose into how people want to live?

Why cant these fundies just look after their "flock" and stop pestering others. I mean really...seriously?...how many times do we have to listen to such silly statements over and over again... :mad:


If they had their way we will all be sitting in some sorry excuse of a village and learning "creationism" while the rest of the world rushes to embrace the future.

[Solly Mack]

33. That comment is laughable

[ArbustoBuster]

35. Sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind.

Maybe next time the Mormons will think before they destroy the rights of millions of people.

And even so, a minuscule increase in people badmouthing Mormons isn't in anywhere near the same league as Jim Crow.

So, in conclusion: Mormon leadership, kindly shut up.

[CBGLuthier]

36. Somed day it will all be between the mormons and the muslims

Fighting it out to be the dominant idiots of this planet. Christians (mormons are not christian) will have long since given up.

[niyad]

40. and this from the group that gave us the mormon massacre

[Bluenorthwest]

41. And Glen Beck

[BolivarianHero]

43. What a fucking asshole...

My problem with Mormons is that they oppose human rights and that they stole and brainwashed my cousin's kids. That has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with me wanting to keep Mormon slaves (they'd be too dumb to be of much value anyways) or with me wanting mobs of conservative White semi-literate evangelicals to lynch them.

[Umbral]

44. If the Mormons are going to get belligerent about their Prop 8 stance, it bodes ill for Harry Reid.

If he doesn't get Nevada's Mormon Republican vote, he will likely be out on his ass. I'm not sure I care much, it depends on which crazy is selected as his opponent.

[justiceischeap]

45. IOW: "Look, the evil gays are trying to take our religious freedom from us" n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

48. If Elder Oaks has a problem, he can go back to Kolob

And play planet frisbee golf with Elohim.

[jeffbr]

49. Grrrr... Get off my lawn, assholes

[krabigirl]

52. Screw them. Nope, sorry, you don't have the freedom to make hate into law. ro

without people fighting back. Just deal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. You'd better believe it that there is a backlash

but this is not about religious freedom you ass... but civil rights.

Oh and you are playing the role of the reactionary whites at Selma, not those seeking civil rights.