OK, we have a name for the shooter, do we really have to know the names of the victims?

[RB TexLa]

I've seen some people here say they have "a right to know the names of the victims." Why does our society think this way about victims? We know 33 people died, why do we feel we have to have their names? Why do their lives have to be made public?

[TexasProgresive]

1. The dead don't have a right to privacy

Whether or not we need to know their names it is a matter of public record and will be given out.

[LifeDuringWartime]

16. what about their families?

Shouldn't they be able to grieve in private?

[pnwmom]

22. They routinely publish death notices in the newspaper.

This is no different, really.

Putting the names out avoids unnecessary calls from friends and acquaintances to families. The real friends know to call if they read the notice, and don't have to be called first by the family.

[Lars39]

39. Heck, one of the funeral homes near me has a marquee out near

the road. It tells the name of the deceased, time of the funeral and the outdoor temp.
Not sure I like it, though. Seems like somebody could get a bad shock sometime.

[wakeme2008]

2. Here from the VT newspaper site

http://www.collegemedia.com/stories/417-300am-none.html

Not all but as they get released.

[aquart]

5. Four professors. Thus far.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. I agree.

Anyone who is close enough to them for it to matter, already knows. To everyone else, it is voyeurism -- the worst kind of death voyeurism, like the awful "last moment" videos of car wrecks and plane crashes. It creates a false sense of connection, and thereby heightens peoples fears.

[aquart]

6. Utter hogswill. Really.

There are many people NOT "close" to whom it will matter. Old classmates. Former neighbors. Business associates of their parents. Americans. Human beings.

You really do put the nastiest possible spin on human emotion.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. And hogswill back at ya.

If there is a personal connection to any of the victims, it matters. If there is not, it is just another daily tragedy, and will be used by whoever to promote the particular agenda the tragedy highlights - in this case, guns and security; in the case of a car wreck, licensing and drunk driving laws; in the case of a flood, insurance and emergency response.

Again, if it is an old classmate who was not important enough to stay in touch with, that is not close. If it was a classmate that was kept in contact with, they will find out soon enough.

What are the names of the 21 killed by the McDonald's shooting in Stockton? No idea? Because it really doesn't matter unless you had a direct connetion to any of them. That's what it boils down to. The incident is news, the numbers is news, the names is gossip and voyeurism.

[kwassa]

12. Not voyeurism, but empathy.

You don't seem to have a lot of it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. You can't feel empathy without knowing the names?

Maybe I have too good an imagination - I have no problem with that. Knowing the names doesn't change that.

When the McDonalds shooter killed 21 people, 15 of them children, they didn't publish the names of the children. Did anyone in the country feel any less for the children than for the parents and employees who were also killed?

It may, in fact, be a part of the death voyeurism - like survivors' guilt. That first response is not sorrow, but gratitude. A part of the benefit of knowing the names is a subconscious "thank god it wasn't me". Not knowing the names, it could be anybody, yourself included.

[VTMechEngr]

51. what an asshole response.

I had professor Librescu for dynamics years ago, and I won't forget the time he spent to help me. He helped me get through a very difficult time in my life, and I appreciate it greatly. Would I have been notified by his wife, no. Do I want to know what happened to this great guy, yes I do.

[pnwmom]

24. Professional colleagues deserve to know. Many of them will want

to remember their colleague, but don't want to disturb the families with unnecessary calls.

[aquart]

4. Why? So we can weep for what we've lost.

And so that people are fully aware what their friends and neighbors are dealing with.

Or should we treat being murdered as a shameful secret?

[Toucano]

7. Why should it be a secret? n/t

[stray cat]

8. Its a small world - some may be past friends of yours

Soldiers who die are also listed by name and should be.

[philosophie_en_rose]

9. To remember them as more than victims.

I don't think society has a right to know anything about a victim, but I don't think it is wrong to share the names, profession, or other public information.

It's easier to dismiss victims and ignore tragedy, when the victims are just one of a number of victims.

[Clark2008]

10. Because we want to ensure that police records remain public.

The names of the victims a part of that record.

And, having been a crime reporter for several years, I can tell you that the families actually like the publicity to some degree - it keeps their loved ones from just being a number. They like when their stories are told.

[renate]

42. the NY Times did that for months after 9-11

I thought it was a great idea and read that page daily. I bought the book compiling all those columns, too, because reading about each individual, imagining what they were like, trying to picture them and the people they left behind, and trying to feel their individual absence (rather than their being one of three thousand) was, to me, the least I could do to honor them.

I read a few pages every once in a while to remind myself that although "September 11" has been diluted to a kind of catchphrase by this administration, it was a human tragedy and an event in history on a grand scale that's still unfathomable.

[maggiegault]

48. I DO THAT, TOO!

I was just reading the profiles of Captain Jason Dahl and Co-Captain Leroy Homer, the cockpit crew of Flight 93, just the other day. Just because I wanted to remember who they were.

I want to know the VA Tech victims' names because they deserve to be known. They were robbed of their chances to do anything further in this life, the very least we can do is remember their damn lives by name.

[johnnie]

13. To be honest

I would rather they didn't release the name of the asshole who did this. The names of the victim for the sake of remembrance is ok with me, but they should never release the names of these assholes who go on "rampages".

[leveymg]

14. I have neighbors' kids who go to VT. If any were shot, I want to

know. I live in Northern Virginia.

Those who live in a community have a right to know so we can respond, as necessary.

[RB TexLa]

15. You think you would only find out your neighbors kids were dead if the media

announced their names in a broadcast?

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Exactly.

There are 140 people who work in my place. If any one of them had a kid at VT (or anywhere else, for that matter) who was shot, or even narrowly missed being shot, everyone in the building would know within 12 hours.

[leveymg]

29. I understand your point - because of media sensationalism, we've become a

nation of ghouls, obsessed with the gory details of other peoples' tragedies.

Nonetheless, announcing the names of the dead is a necessary role for the news media. Friends and neighbors do have a right to know when there's been a tragedy, so we can do what's necessary to console the families of victims.

[pnwmom]

34. Many people may have known someone there well enough to

send a card to the families. Even if they don't want to bother the families with unnecessary calls to ask if their student is alive.

[Toucano]

19. "Community" is a relative term not limited to geography. n/t

[The2ndWheel]

17. We're obsessed with information

Everything needs to be numbered, categorized, and counted.

[Coventina]

20. I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread.

The tradition of naming the dead is as old as human civilization itself.
In fact, in ancient Egypt it was believed that to speak someone's name was to preserve their ka or spirit.

Why should we bury the names along with the bodies?

They DESERVE to be named, recognized and mourned. They were individuals, not nameless victims.

I suppose by the logic of some posters here, we should not have learned the name of the professor who saved his students' lives by taking the bullets intended for them. To name him is to honor him, his memory, and his family.

[coffeenap]

23. Yes, you are right. Just as we must know and respect the names

of the soldiers who die for "us", we must know and honor these people.

[Coventina]

26. Exactly. I also wish the names of the Iraqi victims would be

published as well.

[Withywindle]

44. Me neither!

To know someone's name is to acknowledge that person as an individual, with a life that mattered.

I remember here on DU when that horrible story broke about Abeer, the 14-year-old Iraqi girl who was raped and murdered and her family slaughtered by US soldiers. Lots of posters talking about it made a POINT of using her and family's names as often as possible, because it drove home the point that these are human beings we're talking about, not some kind of cipher or pawn or statistic.

We respond to names in a way we don't respond to numbers. I think that response is important, and I don't think it's insincere. I think it's a function of the way human culture works. And I think learning the names and using them is a sign of respect that's very basic and primal. I don't think it needs to be justified.

edited to add: why do we put names on tombstones, after all? They're not just for family or people who knew the deceased. They make an impression centuries after everyone who knew the deceased personally is gone.

[Norquist Nemesis]

25. Naming them is recognizing and honoring them

Why do we list the names of troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? The HONOR them.

[Lex]

32. Exactly right.

Same as seeing the names and faces of people who were lost on 9/11--to honor them, to feel closer to them, to recognize them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. "As long as someone speaks his name, he will never be truly gone"

eom

[whoneedstickets]

28. Should we let them be Faceless Numbers? Mere Statistics?

Forget it! Every single one of them should be recognized and their lives celebrated and the loss they represent mourned.

One of the dead profs, C.J. Bishop the German instructor has a website with his artwork. I spent some time looking at his work and enjoying his talent. The loss of this man is our loss. The consequences of our society, culture and public policy shouldn't be swept under the rug like so much dirt. This man died because of the ubiquity of firearms, a culture that venerates violence and society that rewards 'rugged individualism" while diminishing sensitivity and human connectedness.

Go check out Jamie's site and consider what we've lost.
http://www.memory39.com/

[supernova]

30. My feeling as well

These were individuals with lives and loved ones. I don't mind a bit waiting until all the relatives have been notified, of course. And my heart bleeds for those who got that call. I cannot imagine losing a child to violence.

But to say that the only note of these people passing in this life is "Shooting victim #1, Shooting victim #2, Shooting victim #3," and so on.... makes a mockery of these people's lives.

[Oilwellian]

31. I've seen some bizarre VT threads

This one takes the cake.

[devilgrrl]

33. You'd rather people remember the killer? Pfft! What a dumb thread!

:nuke:

[BlooInBloo]

35. Sounds like an attempt to simply manufacture outrage out of thin air to me....

... Or have you always campaigned against obituary columns in the past?

[RB TexLa]

36. family members choose to or not to have an obituary in the paper

and then pay per line to have it there. A little different than people claiming they have a right to getting victims names.

[BlooInBloo]

47. And it's not a matter of public record when somebody (not a cia noc, perhaps) dies?

[ends_dont_justify]

37. They should be known. We should remember them as more than statistics

Maybe it will help to open the eyes of some of the callous and uncaring who just use it as an arguing point and have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. I don't know about all of the victims names, but I'm glad to know of this one

Professor Liviu Librescu

Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Israeli mechanics and engineering lecturer was shot to death, "but all the students lived - because of him," Virginia Tech student Asael Arad - also an Israeli - told Army Radio.

Several of Librescu's other students sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said Librescu's son, Joe.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176152816138&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[etherealtruth]

40. I heard an interesting interview with a friend/family (?) of the victims' ...

She was very happy to hear about the victims ... she found it comforting to hear about their lives. She adamantly did not want the focus to be placed on who the murderer was.

I'm sure there are as many different views as there are people effected ... but , I do understand the desire to say to the world ...this person was real, important and loved.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Do we really need to know the name of the shooter?

At this point, is there really much more to say?

I mean, one could ask if the police acted properly. One could ask if we're doing enough to treat mental illness.

But do we really need to know whether or not the shooter's childhood mailman thought he came from a nice, polite family?

[AZBlue]

43. I don't have a right, but as an ex-Hokie and someone who grew up in VA, I'd like to know.

I have many old friends there - some I may not keep in touch with anymore, but I want to know that they and their loved ones are safe. If their family chooses not to release the name, I respect that - but if they do, I'd like to know the names. And if the family wishes to have their son, daughter, wife, husband or friend memoralized in the press, that's their right.

[VTMechEngr]

50. Exactly.

[Madspirit]

45. ....umm...

...because they, their heroism and their lives, should be glorified, not the killer.

Some of them did heroic acts, to save others.
Lee

[Nye Bevan]

46. Murder victims' names need to be on the public record.

Imagine if the FBI or Secret Service announced that a number of people had been killed but that they were not going to tell us who these people were out of concern for the families' privacy. I suspect that most people here do not trust the authorities enough to be comfortable with this. An open society is more important than the right to privacy in this kind of situation.

[Sequoia]

49. Yes we do.