Virginia Tech's ban on guns may draw legal fire

[rainbow4321]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

Virginia Tech's recent action against a student caught carrying a gun to class could draw unwanted attention from groups already angry about firearms restrictions on public college campuses.

University officials confirmed that, earlier this semester, campus police approached a student found to be carrying a concealed handgun to class. The unnamed student was not charged with any crimes because he holds a state-issued permit allowing him to carry a concealed gun. But the student could face disciplinary action from the university for violating its policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus.


Virginia law already prohibits students or visitors from carrying guns onto the grounds of public and private K-12 schools. The state also prohibits concealed weapons in courthouses, places of worship during a service, jails and on any private property where the owner has posted a "no guns" notice. State employees are barred from possessing guns while at work unless needed for their job.

But Virginia code is silent on guns and public colleges. And two bills seeking to give college governing boards the authority to regulate firearms on campus died in committee during this year's General Assembly session.

[Old and In the Way]

1. I've got a bad feeling about this.

The gun industry will use this tragedy to justify arming all of our children. Once it starts, what will parents do? As bad as this event today was, I can see the escalation of deaths ignite if schools start allowing concealed weapons on campus. Fault the school for lax security, but I hope their ban on CW doesn't come under legal attack.

[davepc]

2. "arming our children"??

Virgina law says ADULTS who meet the criteria/licensing process are allowed to posses firearms and carry them concealed.

How do you make the jump to giving firearms to minors?

[merh]

3. I am 45 and I am my parent's child

and my siblings are my parent's children.

You made the leap.

[Old and In the Way]

4. Sorry, I still consider my 18YO and 19YO my children.

And my point still stands.

[davepc]

5. the law considers them adults.

and when it comes to matters of legality of posessing firearms, or driving, or buying beer, etc thats what matters.

And and no firearm manufacture can 'make' anyone, adult or minor have a gun. They have to make a conscious decision to acquire one.

[pnwmom]

6. Knowing what we do about brain development, the law should NOT

allow adolescents -- which 18 and 19 year olds most certainly are -- to carry guns. The parts of the brain that are involved with self-control are not fully developed until close to the mid-twenties. We don't allow alcohol before 21. The argument for not allowing guns is even stronger.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

8. 18 and 19 year olds...

nope they are responsible enough to carry a weapon...

Then they arent responsible enough to VOTE...

They arent responsible enough to DRIVE...

The arent responsible enough to join the military...

We should just lock them in a room by themselves...

[pnwmom]

9. Voting uses different parts of the brain than shooting.

At least, for most of us. (Can't speak for the Repubs. Maybe that's their problem.)

IMO, part of the reason we draft very young men is that they have fewer inhibitions about learning to shoot people than an older person would.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1196/annals.1308.005

It is argued that adolescence is a period of heightened vulnerability to risk taking because of a disjunction between novelty and sensation seeking (both of which increase dramatically at puberty) and the development of self-regulatory competence (which does not fully mature until early adulthood). This disjunction is biologically driven, normative, and unlikely to be remedied through educational interventions designed to change adolescents' perception, appraisal, or understanding of risk. Interventions should begin from the premise that adolescents are inherently more likely than adults to take risks, and should focus on reducing the harm associated with risk-taking behavior.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

10. So they arent responsible?

So every 18,19, 20 year old isnt responsible for their actions after all they are still adolescents, ie children. We should treat them as juveniles in court then.

If they arent responsible enough to control their emotions when it involves firearms, then by god they arent emotionally responsible enough to control things much more serious to the world at large, like voting or a vehicle.

[pnwmom]

11. No, voting involves different parts of the brain.

The typical age for brain development for learning algebra -- a form of logical thinking -- is about the age of 14 in boys. This is more comparable to the skills used in voting than in handling a weapon.

Driving involves both types of thinking, and certainly young people -- especially boys -- do exhibit more risk taking than adults behind the wheel.

And yes, the argument has been made that adolescents shouldn't be as culpable for their actions as adults.

For example:

Brain development, culpability, and the death penalty

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:l4n2bGqh60YJ:www.internationaljusticeproject.org/pdfs/juvBrainDev.pdf+%22adolescent+brain%22+%2Bgun&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

For many years, science had assumed that the adolescent brain was fully developed by the age of 14. It was thought that developmental changes in the brain occurred in the first few “formative” years of life. However recent scientific advancements indicate that the adolescent brain undergoes rapid change and does not fully develop adult capacity until the early twenties. 1 It should be emphasized that this development and change occur in all adolescents.

SNIP

It is clear therefore, that the normal adolescent brain is far from mature or operating at full adult capacity. The physiological structure of the adolescent brain is similar therefore to the manifestation of mental disability within an adult brain. These are not however the sole developments within the adolescent brain. It has further been found that cable of nerves (the corpus callosum) that connects the two sides of the brain appears to grow and change significantly through adolescence. 11 This cable of nerves is involved further in creativity and problem solving. The lack of a properly formed prefrontal cortex and corpus callosum indicates an impairment of the rational decision and thought making process instead placing heavy reliance upon the emotional and gut response area (amygdala). The ability to regulate emotions is therefore impaired and this can result in quite severe acts with little regard for the consequences. As Daniel Weinberger concludes “I doubt that most school shooters intended to kill, in the adult sense of permanently ending a life and paying the consequences for the rest of their lives. Such intention would require a mature prefrontal cortex, which could anticipate the future and rationally appreciate cause and effect. The often reported lack of apparent remorse illustrates how unreal the reality is to these teenagers. Adolescents need people or institutions to prevent them from being in a potentially deadly situation where an immature brain is left to its own devices. If a gun is put in the control of the prefrontal cortex of a hurt and vengeful 15 year old, and it is pointed at a human target, it will very likely go off.” 12

________________________________

The same argument that would exempt adolescent killers from the death penalty would support raising the age minimum on gun possession. As is stated above, the brain doesn’t fully form until the early twenties. Even an 18 or 19 year old has impaired function as compared to an adult with a fully formed brain.

Under the controlled situation of a military force, an adolescent may be turned into an effective soldier. But just buying a gun doesn’t turn an 18 year old into someone who can be trusted to use it wisely.

P.S. I have to add that I disagree with your idea that voting or driving is "much more serious to the world at large." A loaded gun in the hands of someone with less than a fully developed prefrontal cortex is a very serious situation.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

12. No offense meant by this but...

That is silly.

And I do agree that 'just buying a gun doesnt turn an 18 year old into someone that con be trusted to use it wisely'.

Of course I say the same thing about 30 year olds, or 40 year olds, or whatever.

[pnwmom]

13. It's "silly" to argue that an 18 year old is too young to be trusted

to operate a gun outside of a controlled situation?

Not to the people who study brain development.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

14. No

It is silly to say they arent responsible enough to own a weapon.

But that they are responsible enough to vote.

Either they are responsible enough to do both. or they arent.

[pnwmom]

15. I disagree. Entirely different kinds of thinking are involved.

[pnwmom]

7. And they are still adolescents. Their brains are still developing, until

well into their twenties. The last part to develop is the part that puts the brakes on risk-taking behavior.

We already have too much drinking on college campuses. We'd be insane to add guns to the mix.