Hey, Bill Maher, you ignorant jerk!

[question everything]

First, the H1N1 virus has been found not to mutate. So the vaccines that we started working on last spring still work.

Second, too many children and pregnant women have died so far. So, yes, they should be vaccinated.

For you to invite Dr. Frist and to barely let him talk, and to cut him off - you do have the bigger microphone - and to declare that no one should be vaccinated: If any pregnant women or children skipped the vaccination because of you and died, I hope that their survivors will sue the shit out of you.

[ohheckyeah]

1. I think anyone who takes their medical advice

from a comedian really doesn't have a leg to stand in a lawsuit.

[question everything]

3. He was debating a doctor - Doctor Frist

expressed admiration to his medical skills and then shut him down in a shouting match. People take their advices from all kind of bizarre sources, including the Internet..

I do hope that no one will.

[ohheckyeah]

17. Yes, I saw it.

Maher is one you have to take the bad with the good and I certainly wouldn't take medical advice from him.

[Artie Bucco]

75. Mahr makes good points....

But he has a latte liberal vibe that makes me loathe him at times.

[Bonobo]

2. Awwww, poor widdle "Dr. Frist". nt

[Thrill]

4. CDC: 76 children dead of swine flu as cases rise

ATLANTA - Health officials said Friday that 76 U.S. children have died of swine flu, including 19 new reports in the past week — more evidence the new virus is unusually dangerous for the young.

The regular flu kills between 46 and 88 children a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That suggests deaths from the new H1N1 virus could dramatically outpace children's deaths from seasonal flu, if swine flu continues to spread as it has.

CDC officials say 10 more states, a total of 37, now have widespread swine flu. A week ago, reports suggested that cases might be leveling off and even falling in some areas of the country, but that did not turn out to be an enduring national trend.

"We are seeing more illness, more hospitalizations, and more deaths," the CDC's Dr. Anne Schuchat said at a press conference Friday.

http://health.yahoo.com/news/ap/us_med_swine_flu.html

[slackmaster]

5. Is this about something that someone said on TV?

:shrug:

[question everything]

16. Yes, Bill Maher on his HBO show

Recently he likes to have individuals with some kind of medical knowledge, including Michael Moore, and try to get them to agree with his ideas. For example, he blames all the Americans who do not conform to his living style. Who do not eat right, do not exercise enough, probably smoke and drink beer or soda.

Sure, easy to ignore the poor who cannot afford to go to the gym, who cannot even afford to walk around the block, who cannot afford personal trainer or fresh food and vegetables.

He had David Kessler - former FDA Commissioner who recently wrote a book about the bad food that we eat - but still did not agree with Maher and Maher finally had to leave him in disgust.

And no matter what we think of Frist, he was there as a physician, he is a heart surgeon and Maher had to grudgingly accept Bono's praises of him working in poor Africa.

We had a long discussion here about a month ago, if you care to read all the back and forth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6583981

[thunder rising]

27. Frist, the physician that declared Terri Schiavo's condition recoverable after watching 5 min video

[tomm2thumbs]

34. yes, that's the idiot - and that says it all about how much credence to give ANYTHING he says

nuff said

[Tigress DEM]

68. OK, Agreed, if he says the sun is shinning, go look. But even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.

Giving valid reasons for not vaccinating and having someone talk about the reasons for is the way DEMs are supposed to do things.

Having a screaming match is just more FAUX TV, different channel with a turn coat liberal. NOT that he isn't spouting a liberal viewpoint, but he's taken on the insane behavior of the enemy. I think Bill is going down in the ratings and trying to save his show by ramping up the controversy.

[question everything]

89. This is a very accurate analysis

When Bush and Cheney were in power, he had the field to himself. He was even honest enough to say that it would be better for him had McCain won, but "country first" he wanted Obama.

So far, so good. Even some of his attacks on the Democrats who are not doing much, given that we are the majority had some points.

But he is really going down. His jokes are no longer funny and he decided to have guests that pretty much agree with each other. Or perhaps he can no longer find conservatives willing to appear there.

[paulsby]

42. gotta disagree

and i frequently see this being brought up.

in re: "the poor who cannot afford to go to the gym, who cannot even afford to walk around the block, who cannot afford personal trainer or fresh food and vegetables."

that's just ridiculous imo. sure, poor people do not have the luxuries of fitness available to the better off - nice gyms, $150 running shoes, eleiko barbells, etc. but poor people who WANT to stay in shape can stay in shape.

poverty has little to do with it.

some of the greatest athletes ever have come from extremely poor conditions. the best distance runners in the world come from kenya, many of them literally dirt poor and running miles back and forth to school each day in bare feet.

you can get a good workout with such simple items as a nice sandbag filled with sand, a good job, pushup and pullups. you can do what many strongmen competitors do and find an old truck tire and do tire flips. you can do pistols and one leg squats. and you can eat plenty healthy for very little.

this infantilization of people because of their income level is actually quite condescending imo.

[Luminous Animal]

52. You leave out the luxury of time...

which the working poor, in this United States, do not have. My dad worked 3 jobs a day and you think he could come home and lift sandbags? Get a clue.

[paulsby]

85. get a clue yourself

sorry, i've lived and worked in the hood. been poor myself.

the obesity of the poor has to do with overindulgence of overprocessed food and excess time spent SEDENTARY.

i didn't see a lot of poor manual laborers who were fat, for instance.

again, you are infantilizing the poor. and it's complete rubbish. first it was a money issue (Which is rubbish). now it's a time issue, which is also rubbish.

you can stay in shape with 3 20 minute workouts a week. that's an hour. in your living room. so spare me the condescending, anti-scientific attitude.

[slackmaster]

94. Thanks, I don't have HBO and don't generally watch crap like that on TV anyway

:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

6. The news tonight said 79 children had died from it so far

and we are barely in flu season. Nobody is forced to take the vaccine but ANYONE that uses their position to advocate AGAINST it is totally irresponsible.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091009/icu_091009/20091009?hub=TopStoriesV2
Child deaths from swine flu are rising in the United States, with 19 flu-related deaths reported in the last week alone, U.S. health officials said Friday.

"Nineteen more pediatric deaths for influenza were reported to us this week. We're now up to 76 children having died from the 2009 H1N1 virus," said Anne Schuchat, of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"To put that in context: in the past three years, the total pediatric influenza deaths ranged from 46 - 88. We've already had 76 children dying from the H1N1 virus and it's only the beginning of October," said Schuchat, who is the director of CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

She noted that 37 states now are reporting widespread swine flu cases, up from 27 a week ago. A week ago, reports suggested that cases might be leveling off and even decreasing in some areas of the country, but that did not turn out to be an enduring national trend.

"We are seeing more illness, more hospitalizations, and more deaths," she said.

[Posteritatis]

83. Note that "children" doesn't include, say, twentysomethings and the like

Friend of mine's hooked up to a ventilator in Colorado right now and is probably going to remain on it until the end of the month; before he got nailed by this thing he had no real medical problems to speak of.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. Is Maher an anti-vaxer?

[Justitia]

29. That's what he said tonight - "no vaccines". He's w/the woo on this one. -eom

[tnlefty]

8. Who wants to hear cat killer Frist, who misdiagnosed

Terry Schiavo via video because it fit his political gamesmanship at the time? I question Maher's judgement for having him on his show....there are other physicians with more credibility to be found.

I realize that I'm biased as I detest cat killer Frist. Detest him :puke:

[MindPilot]

9. Maher is kind of single minded on that issue

He believes that if everyone goes vegan, quits drinking soda pop and smokes plenty of weed, western medicine would cease to be necessary. I don't like Bill Frist, but he made it through medical school so he probably knows more abut medicine than Bill Maher.
Yeah, Maher should have let Frist answer the questions.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. Frist was the medical expert??

Why would you do that? If you want a meaningful discussion, you don't invite a nutjob to argue the other point if you can help it.

[Horse with no Name]

12. Frist's $$$$ made it through medical school

Doesn't mean he is a talented healer.

[question everything]

18. He is a very good heart transplant surgeon

When he concentrates on medicine and health care, and not on politics, he knows what he is talking about.

As a matter of fact, later one of the guests - don't remember who - said that had he stayed away from "diagnosing" Schiavo, he could have been the Republican GOP candidate (Would have still lost, but this is a different story).

Being the chief resident in cardiac transplant service and cardiothoracic surgery at Stanford demands more than $$$.

I will be the first in line to criticize him as a politician, but give him all the credit as a successful surgeon (by successful I mean success in heart transplants and other surgeries).

[Horse with no Name]

22. I guess Frankensteining little furry animals to further his career helped

Sorry--no kudos to the cat-killer here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist_medical_school_experiments_controversy

[thunder rising]

28. Frist is spinning. If he comes back to power Iran will be bombed. That's how it works.

[BoneDaddy]

11. I'm gunna take my ball and GO HOME

Wahhh grow the fuck up

[Kerrytravelers]

13. Is this the same Dr. Frist who said Terri Schiavo was not brain dead by watching a video?

Why would he have this guy on for medical opinions? I'd go with someone who can give a medical opinion that isn't based on their political ideology.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. Seriously.

The only good thing is that you're sure to win and you probably look good in front of your audience who hates the guy.

It's like if someone wanted to argue that the square root of 9 is 7. If you wanted to look really good, get a kook or Dick Cheney to argue that it's 3. Even if the audience knows better, they might listen to you (at least a little) because the other guy is so hated/nuts.

[question everything]

19. Read #18, above (nt)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

21. I still think that getting someone who you know is *hated* by your audience to state the viewpoint

you are arguing against is going to help your case. Even if they are right, if they are unpopular, they just won't get the support that a neutral guest would get.

If you want to increase the likelihood that your audience will agree with you, get someone they like to agree with you too. Failing that, get someone good to agree with you. Failing that, get anyone to agree with you. Failing that, get someone they hate to disagree with you.

Like I said, people wouldn't applaud Dick Cheney for saying something, no matter how true it is.

[question everything]

23. Yeah, but this is part of the game that Maher plays

He likes to get people like that to rile the crowd. He is bored, as is the audience, when everyone agrees and no one argues, as happened before.

Indeed, once he disposed of Frist, his guests were pretty much in agreement on everything.

I suppose someone like me, who likes to evaluate what one says at the moment, rather that have a pre-disposition is not the kind of viewers Maher crave.

(Or for that matter, not what most DUers are, as I have debated many when I posted something from the WSJ, for example).

[Prism]

35. That's kind of where I was

Maher was off in super libertarian fantasy land with his no vaccination rhetoric, but then there was Frist . . . I don't want to agree with Frist. Who wants to agree with Frist? But Frist was correct about vaccinations. But he's Frist . . .

It was an awful interview to endure here at home.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. She wasn't brain dead, I'm beginning to wonder about you though.

[Kerrytravelers]

80. Excuse me?

How incredibly rude and completely uncalled for.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. Just relating the facts. She was in a persistent vegetative state.

She was not brain dead. The insult was over the top. My apologies.

[Kerrytravelers]

96. I didn't recall the exact details, I just remember Frist diagnosing from the Senate Floor.

Apology accepted.

[Posteritatis]

82. Well, I suppose "brain absent" and "brain dead" are seperate things, so sure, maybe she wasn't. (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. She was in a persistent vegetative state not brain dead.

[astral]

84. What this has to do with Terri Schiavo I don't know, but

I also saw her on video raising her head and looking at her father and making vocal sounds but being unable to make her lips speak words. This is brain dead? It is impossible to know, and a horror that a man she was fleeing took charge of her life when she failed to escape instead of having her taken into protective custody and protected FROM him, and whether she could have survived or come back or not we of course will never know now but the whole story was a complete and total horror story to me.

[laughingliberal]

93. I beg your pardon?!?

We do know she could not come back.

After her death, Schiavo's body was taken to the Office of the District 6 Medical Examiner for Pinellas and Pasco counties, based in Largo, Fla. The autopsy occurred on April 1, 2005. It revealed extensive brain damage. The manner of death was certified as "undetermined". The autopsy was led by Chief Medical Examiner Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D. In addition to consultation with a neuropathologist (Stephen J. Nelson, M.D.), Dr. Thogmartin also arranged for specialized cardiac and genetic examinations to be made. The official autopsy report<29> was released on June 15, 2005. In addition to studying Mrs. Schiavo's remains, Thogmartin scoured court, medical and other records and interviewed her family members, doctors and other relevant parties. Examination of Schiavo’s nervous system by neuropathologist Stephen J. Nelson, M.D., revealed extensive injury. The brain itself weighed only 615 g, only half the weight expected for a female of her age, height, and weight, an effect caused by the loss of a massive amount of neurons. Microscopic examination revealed extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex, the thalami, the basal ganglia, the hippocampus, the cerebellum, and the midbrain. The neuropathologic changes in her brain were precisely of the type seen in patients who enter a PVS following cardiac arrest. Throughout the cerebral cortex, the large pyramidal neurons that comprise some 70% of cortical cells – critical to the functioning of the cortex – were completely lost. The pattern of damage to the cortex, with injury tending to worsen from the front of the cortex to the back, is also typical. There was marked damage to important relay circuits deep in the brain (the thalami) – another common pathologic finding in cases of PVS. The damage was, in the words of Thogmartin, "irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."<68>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

[niyad]

97. really, you saw her lifting her head on a video? and where do you get the information that she was

trying to leave her husband? any evidence of that? links, please.

[Incitatus]

14. FRIST?

Isn't that the guy that thought you could get AIDS from tears and sweat?
Maher actually had him on to discuss a medical issue?

[question everything]

20. Yes, and he was vrey good and quite knowledgeable

And Maher begrudged him that Bono praised him in their tour in Africa, I think.

When not sucking to constituents and other RWers he is a very good surgeon. Read #18, above.

[Horse with no Name]

24. I don't believe he was that great of a heart surgeon

honestly.
The guy comes down on the wrong side of almost every medical issue--and that does take away from any perceived skill he might or might not have.
I've not seen accolades for the man except from RW sources and not going to buy into it.

[Taverner]

69. I can't believe I'm defending Frist against Maher....

(facepalm)

[madrchsod]

25. i stopped watching maher a long time ago.

the virus is deadly because children have`t been exposed to any past variations of the virus. anyone born after the the last variation are at increased risk.

the vaccine has`t made it to the healthcare workers yet let alone the general population.

[Horse with no Name]

26. And the projected windfall shortages

most likely mean that it won't make it OUT of the healthcare worker population.

[question everything]

63. Yesterday was probably my last show

He is getting obnoxious at pushing his ideas. He is like Matthews who asks questions and immediately answers them himself. He now gets guests who pretty much agree with him and among themselves, and he is not even funny, not in his monologues and not in his "New Rules."

[Spider Jerusalem]

30. Bill Maher is a colossal fuckwit who thinks the germ theory of disease is a myth.

I have no idea why anyone would take anything he says on the subject at all seriously.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Does he really?

I don't have HBO, so unless someone posts a video specifically drawing my attention to something, I don't watch him.

[niyad]

32. and we should take medical advice from frist the cat killer? don't think so

the same self-absorbed jerk who "diagnosed" terri schiavo after watching a few minutes of film. Frankly, I hope bill eviscerated him.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

71. No you should take it from an uninformed comedian. LOL.

[Touchdown]

33. I looked back to see if a hate Maher thread was there last week.

Nope. He must've strayed from your approval this week, and said something your orthodoxy cannot accept. Better luck next week.

Yeah, yeah! I know. You'll NEVER WATCH HIM AGAIN!!!! I bet you won't.

YAWN! So predictable.:eyes:

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

39. You called it....

... Bill's a challenging and sophisticated character with a hell of a lot of talent.

I've been lurking here for awhile and it never surprises that each week that Bill's show is released, we can always expect, like clockwork, to be "entertained" with the inevitable "I HATE BILL" threads from the thin skinned.

I love Bill's contrarian views, his politically incorrect misogyny, his contempt for all things religious, and his willingness to take on all extremes of the political, social, and cultural spectrum, especially when they are unintentional caricatures of themselves - as indeed are these threads.

It's always comical to see the indignant and self-righteous "I'll never watch him again" manifestos appear yet again next week, saying yet again, the same thing!

[Maru Kitteh]

45. Maher is a pseudo-intellectual narcissistic prick, actually.

The last time I caught sight of him he looked ridiculous as well - trying to dress like a child, obvious plastic surgery. . .

He is no real friend of the left.

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

79. There is no such thing...

... as a "real friend of the left" without a definition of what it means to be "left" and what it means to be a "friend."

"Left." A point on the political spectrum is not static, it is flexible. It is dependent upon the definitions of the one who holds the position and the one who is making an assessment of the one holding the position. Hence, to try and establish a fixed definition or point is comical. The matter of political and social fixation is proved illusory by it all being very transitory, volatile, and shiftable. It is hardly fixed. History and our own individual political and social metamorphis proves that very well.

"Friend." Most times in life, I have found those who are my best friends are ones who have the courage, intelligence, and wit to disagree with me and present me with an alternative view or direction. They have "saved" me many times.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

46. You love his misogyny?

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

78. Uhhh, yes...

.... because I don't take myself all that too seriously and look to find offense where there was merely humor.

We're all clowns and periodically deserve to be the target of our own hypocrisy, ego, and stupidity at times. And Bill does that very well.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

90. He is definitely good at being hypocritical, egotistical and stupid.

[ezgoingrl]

36. If I'm ever unlucky enough to meet Bill Frist, I think I'll ask him

who his favorite character is from Mr. Rogers, then I'll say mine is Henryetta Pussycat and then say "Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow." What do you think?

[ezgoingrl]

37. I should probably add that

it's likely I wouldn't do that, but I'm just not in a very good mood and I didn't take the news of him lying to obtain cats and then killing them as part of medical experiments very well.

[MadMaddie]

38. Bill doesn't know what he is talking about the

Flue Pandemic in 1914 killed healthy young solidars coming back from WWI and healthy young citizens. Of course a lot more died but Bill is full of shit on this one.

[question everything]

91. And this is the problem

We really should not expect him to know these facts. Let his stick to his jokes, and needling politicians and being "politically incorrect" and leave the hard facts of science and medicine alone.

But recently he found a new soap box to climb: blaming poor people (mostly) - who cannot afford or don't have the time for exercise and nutritious meals - for our health care crisis.

[47of74]

40. Anyone who takes advice from either Maher OR Frist...

...deserves whatever they get. I wouldn't take advice from either man even if you paid me too and offered to pay for college for every last member of my family.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

41. Appr. 90,000 will die from H1N1 this flu season. Maher's probably responsible for a few deaths now.

He's no better than the young earth creationists that he mocks, in fact, he's worse, because his anti-science bullshit kills people.

[Maru Kitteh]

43. Maher probably gave that advice because he hates women and he hates children.

Maher is an idiot, a misogynist and an all around asshole.

[Xicano]

44. This is a problem I have with vaccines. Provided by Dr. Horowitz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58C2Cllc2pY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAsuv69dSUg#t=4m55s


Sorry, but I find it a bit ironic that the OP's name is none other than "question everything" but dogmatically fails to question the safety of vaccines.

Just saying....

[SemiCharmedQuark]

47. Leonard Horowitz is a quack who thinks AIDS and Ebola were created for genocidal purposes

Hell, "quack" is putting it mildly.

I can't believe his nonsense has made it to DU.

[Xicano]

48. You obviously didn't listen to Dr. Maurice Hilleman of Merck

Its the reason I posted the first video link. And as far as Dr. Horowitz's position on the HIV virus, all you have to do is review the documentation he presents to understand what his position is. Something I am sure you probably haven't done.

BTW, the video of Dr. Maurice Hilleman of Merck I provided in the first link is a PBS NOVA documentary and Dr. Hilleman is considered one of the world's leading authorities regarding vaccines.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. Do you keep all of your goalposts on casters?

Or just the ones involved with anti-vax quackery?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

51. This video is such a pile of shit. They take random words he says and scroll them across the bottom

of the video.

"PRESERVATIVES!!!" "VIRUS!!!"

On Edit: I highly recommend you watch the video if you haven't already. Basically the crux of it is that the person asking the questions makes an off the cuff joke about AIDS and the Dr. brushes past it and apparently Horowitz takes it seriously.

[Xicano]

54. Usually when people who see something they knee jerk disagree with

they respond the way you illustrate despite how much documentation can be provided. Its no different than the folks who disbelieve all the documentation that pot is not dangerous and helpful medically in so many different ways.

[Xicano]

53. Here's a little reading material for you.

San Francisco Chronicle

Albany Law Journal of Science & Technology, Volume 13, Number 3, 2003

National Vaccine Information Center

[SemiCharmedQuark]

50. I listened to the interview. You (and the creator) are completely distorting what he is saying and

making leaps of "logic" that are simply astounding.

[Xicano]

55. Here's a little corroborating material for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6743463&mesg_id=6744159

[SemiCharmedQuark]

56. Ok. Read this:

"Over the last four decades, an intense research effort has been made to determine whether this route of exposure to SV40 has caused health problems in people, including cancer. Epidemiology studies involving decades of observations in the United States and Europe have failed to detect an increased cancer risk in those likely to have been exposed to the virus. These include a long-term Swedish study, which followed 700,000 people who received SV40-contaminated vaccine (7), a German study with 22 years of follow-up of 886,000 persons who received the contaminated vaccine as infants (8), a 20-year study of 1,000 people in the United States inoculated during the first week of life with contaminated vaccines (9), and a 30-year follow-up of approximately 10 percent of the entire U.S. population (using data from the National Cancer Institute's Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results registry) (10). The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds no evidence that SV40-contaminated vaccine lots cause cancer (11). "

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/risk/sv40

[Xicano]

57. This comes to mind after reading your link:

But scientists at the National Cancer Institute say their studies show almost no SV40 in human tumors and no cancer increase in people who received the contaminated vaccine.

"No one would dispute there's been a widespread, very scary exposure to the population of potentially cancer-causing virus," said Dr. Howard Strickler, NCI's chief investigator. "But none of our studies and other major analyses have shown an inkling of an effect on the population."

Critics charge, however, that the few studies done by the government are scientifically flawed and that health officials have downplayed the potential risks posed by SV40 ever since they learned in 1961 that the virus contaminated the polio vaccine and caused tumors in rodents.

"How long can the government ignore this?" asked Dr. Adi Gazdar, a University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center cancer researcher. "The government has not sponsored any real research. Here's something possibly affecting millions of Americans, and they're indifferent.

"Maybe they don't want to find out."


http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/sv40/

[Xicano]

58. And don't forget this:

SV40—A Human Carcinogen

By 1999, numerous pathologists, microbiologists, and virologists throughout the world had detected SV40 in a variety of human cancers such as brain tumors including medulloblastomas, bone cancers, and mesotheliomas a fatal lung cancer. These were the very same cancers that were created when SV40 was introduced into animals. The advent of Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) technology that could identify the genetic code of specific strands of DNA demonstrated with precision that it was this monkey virus that was being detected in human cancers and no other. Moreover, the rates of these particular cancers had steadily increased over the last few decades. The question that had been left unanswered for almost four decades now faced scientists again—was SV40 responsible for causing or contributing to human cancers?

Over the last forty years since its discovery, SV40 had become one of the most widely studied and best understood viruses in microbiology. It was routinely used to create human cancers in the laboratory in order to test cancer therapies. In addition, it is now known how this virus caused cancer on a molecular level. After careful study documented in peer reviewed publications, leaders in SV40 research announced that SV40 was a class 2A human carcinogen.


http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html

[question everything]

92. Hey, if you want to listen to idiots who don't know the first thing

about the immune system and don't get vaccinated - go ahead. Get sick and die.

But if you have young children and you will prevent them from getting vaccinated and they will die, I hope that someone will throw you in jail for the rest of your life.

As a matter of fact, you may not have been lived so far had your parents and pediatricians not make sure that you were vaccinated against diseases that killed many several generations ago.

The science of the immune system and of vaccines has been around for many years. So instead of listening to snake oil salesmen, why not take a real course in human immunology and learn the facts?

And this is what I question - the gullibility of supposedly intelligent people on DU of listening to any smooth talker who can confirm their pre-conceived notions instead of actually taking the time to listen to opposing views and, at least, to reach your own conclusion. That is, if you are capable of such a task.

[Princess Turandot]

59. I dislike him for his misogeny..

as a matter of disclosure. But in this regard, he could have brought on a doc with an epidemiology background instead of controversial Frist. And of course, Maher is in that peculiar baby boomer demographic which seems much less at risk for this.

Did he refuse his polio vax as a kid? Does he advocate against those too, with the disease making a comeback. Spending a year in an 'iron lung' might change his opinion. Knowing a few polio survivors makes me deeply grateful for Dr. Salk and his vaccine.

[stray cat]

60. 36000 Americans die each year from the flu - worse case maybe an additional 35000 from H1N1

70,000 dead Americans are ok as long as it is natural i guess :sarcasm:

[Paladin]

61. I Never Thought I'd Take Bill Frist's Side In An Argument........

.....but Bill Maher changed all that last night. And I agree: if pregnant women end up dying on account of Maher's loony, uninformed comments about vaccinations, I hope he's sued for every penny he possesses. Asshole.....

[question everything]

62. Same here. And... he is not even funny anymore (nt)

[Fla Dem]

64. Florida w/110 deaths and California w/ 188 deaths from H1N1 lead country. Interactive map.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30435064/ns/health-swine_flu

76 U.S. children dead of swine flu as cases rise
CDC: 16 have died in past week; regular flu kills between 46 and 88 a year

ATLANTA - Health officials said Friday that 76 children in the United States have died of swine flu since April, including 16 new reports in the past week — more evidence the new virus is unusually dangerous in kids.

The regular flu kills between 46 and 88 children a year, according to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data.

With swine flu cases increasing throughout most of the country, more deaths are likely, Dr. Anne Schuchat said at a press conference Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33243503/ns/health-swine_flu/

If I had kids I sure would be thinking of getting them immunized. How tragic if a child dies and the parents could have had them immunized.

[conscious evolution]

65. How many children died of other causes

since the swine scare-a-thon began?

[madrchsod]

66. the problem is that kids have`t been exposed to any variations a preventive vaccine

i`ve been exposed to the last two pig flues. yes more kids have died of other conditions than will die from the pig flu. at least there is a preventive vaccine for the flu

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. Do you have some kind of point?

[conscious evolution]

73. Don't be afraid of false boogiemen

You do know that there are people who like to keep the population afraid,right? That a fearful population is an easily controlled population?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. What false boogieman would that be?

[conscious evolution]

76. never mind

Its obvious that you will never get it.

Have a nice day.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

77. That's what I thought. Run away now.

[City Lights]

67. That cat killer doesn't deserve any air time at all.

:nuke:

[frogmarch]

81. I got the impression that

Bill Maher invited Frist on the show to talk about vaccinations because Maher thought his mostly liberal audience would automatically side with him over Frist, and that he, Maher, would score extra points by ridiculing a republican.

I agree with Maher sometimes, but last night he really pissed me off. What an ignorant asshole he is with regards to vaccines.

[question everything]

88. Yes, he is ignorant

It appears most people on this thread are voting it down because of Frist, but it was Maher who spouted his ignorant ideas about the "mutating" virus and about vaccines.

He should stick to jokes and to politics and leave hard facts of science alone.

He now is fixed on the idea that if only people will exercise and eat right, all our health care problems will be solved. Even former FDA Commissioner, David Kessler who recently wrote a book about the processed food that we eat, would not let him drag into his simplistic and - dare I say it? - elitist approach. Maher even went after the new surgeon general for being overweight..

Poor people do not have the time nor the money to exercise. And many do not have or cannot afford fresh fruits and vegetables.

Processed foods with tons of salt and fat is cheap and is filling and is easy to fix.

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

95. Facts are, indeed, inconvenient things...

... to many on this thread.

This thread is being voted down not because of the vile Frist, but as all threads are vote upon, its title:

Fact: "Hey, Bill Maher, you ignorant jerk!"