Screw the state opt out idea!

[Are_grits_groceries]

This just dumps the whole mess into the states.

It is a copout.

They can all self righteously say they passed a health care reform bill. Then the states get to tear themselves apart over it internally.

There are those who are saying if a state doesn't opt in, they should just not elect the same people.

So we will have to stop in our tracks trying to elect a Dem governor. We have a good candidate, and Sanford has made it a lot easier. Instead of being able to focus on that, we will have to squabble over the health care reform mess.

Sanford will be get lost in that hooha.

They will start the fear campaign all over again. People will vote against their interests out of sheer panic.

Leaving civil rights up to the states was a hunky dory idea too. That worked out well until the federal government stepped in.

[depakid]

1. It's the ultimate wedge issue-

Republicans in those states would have to show whose side they're really on- and it won't be pretty for them when they do.

[MNDemNY]

4. So, you are willing to admit to "playing politics" with peoples lives?

Do we wait 10 years for results? 20? 100? What is good for you?

[depakid]

11. Politics ALWAYS plays with people's lives

People in Oregon would have no problem making the responsible choice as soon as its offered. People in Oklahoma or South Carolina may have to wait until a majority gets over their dysfunctional ideology.

I would also add that people in those states have NO PROBLEM hoisting their dysfunctional "values" onto the rest of us- they'd gladly let Oregonians die or suffer (as they've proven many many times). All that's being proposed here is that they live (or die) with their OWN choices- and allow other states to do the same.

[MNDemNY]

12. They can just move, right?

sheesh.

[depakid]

15. You could- and people do

though the ballot box would preferable to most folks, one would think.

[MNDemNY]

18. If they are healthy enough to get to the polls.

[Are_grits_groceries]

5. They will pick certain issues out of the bill

and make them seem horrible. In addition, there will probably be some ideas in the bill that are not univerally beloved by the Democratic side.

There will end up being a lot of sides. It won't be such a stark choice.

[Ms. Toad]

49. The only thing they can opt out of is the public option.

Residents of the state are automatically entitled to participate in the public option (if they meet the federal criteria), unless the state deliberately choose not to participate in the public option.

All other insurance reform still apply. Those are not optional.

It is a very stark choice.

[MNDemNY]

7. Is the "mandate" to be Opt-out ,as well?

No? Hmmmm.

[MNDemNY]

2. Must pass bill, any bill. Need Rose Garden signing ceremony.

Why do you hate America?

[mdmc]

6. yes

[MNDemNY]

10. I don't care if it is just dicounted asprin for some, we need to pass a health care reform bill.

The big "O" needs a "W".

[mdmc]

25. As a radical leftie

I am saddened by the fact that I will take whatever Obama can get and claim "Mission Accomplished".

He is the man and I got his back. But.. It is just sad.

[MNDemNY]

26. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[mdmc]

35. that I am

fo'sho

[timeforpeace]

33. Don't sweat it. This is the Silly Great Idea™ dujour. It's the Dems who will never vote for this.

[ddeclue]

3. +1 K&R

[droidamus2]

8. Pretty obvious

The Republicans love the divide and conquer idea. They would take the same approach they have on their 'other big issues' they would get initiatives on the ballots where possible and spend untold amounts of money to convince people they really don't need 'healthcare' or they would go from state legislature to state legislature or Governor to Governor and threaten to swiftboat everybody if they didn't opt out.

[BlooInBloo]

9. "This just dumps the whole mess into the states. " - No, actually it doesn't...

I apologize for linking this, since it contains a lot of words you don't understand.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/10/opt-me-out-of-public-option-purism.html

"1) If the public option is indeed popular -- and the preponderance of public polling suggests that it is -- we should expect the solid majority of states to elect to retain it.

...

2) Behavioral economics further suggests that default preferences are extremely powerful.

...

3) If the public option indeed reduces the costs of insurance -- and most of the evidence suggests that it will -- than the states that opt out of it will have a pretty compelling reason to opt back in.

...

4) Even in states that do opt out of the public option, the fact that voters could presumably elect later to restore it creates an extremely credible threat to the private insurance industry that will itself help to create price competition.

...

5) The ability to negotiate at Medicare or Medicare-plus-X-percent rates really is what makes the public option so powerful. It's not just having "another option".... Rather, it's the ability of the government to potentially provide more efficient (i.e. cheaper) delivery of health insurance than private industry because of its advantages of scale that distinguishes the public option from something like co-ops.

...

6) If the policy wonks are wrong about the public option reducing health care costs -- I don't think they will be, but they could be -- this creates a relatively pain-free way to remove it."


All of that, plus my own: 7) It's a godlike beautiful piece of reverse-psychology. :rofl:

[ipaint]

19. The public option is now medicare for all? When did that happen. n/t

[Are_grits_groceries]

22. "I apologize for linking this, since it contains a lot of words you don't understand."

Is it really necessary to insult me?

Is this your idea of trying to start a civil discussion or do you just want to be patronizing.

I really don't have any response for you on the ideas in your post. I didn't bother to read them. Since you have made up your mind about my intelligence level, I won't even attempt to open it.

Thanks for the laughter. What a joke? Huh?

I expected better. silly me.

[BlooInBloo]

24. "I didn't bother to read them." - Well, you sure showed me.

:rofl:

[Are_grits_groceries]

27. You have shown yourself what needs to be seen.

You have shown yourself to be insulting and arrogant. Why engage with someone on the merits of any idea who begins as you do?

[ipaint]

13. Tyranny of the majority. n/t

[kctim]

34. That is bad on the state level

but good on the national level?

[valerief]

14. As long a bona fide national "Medicarish Public Option" is provided and

Hellistan states don't want to participate in it, that's fine with me. The asswipe senators and representatives of those states will get the boot soon enough so that the Hellistan states will toss off their burquas and join the democratic socialism!

[Ms. Toad]

51. The public option is not "medicarish" in any version of the bills

It is merely an insurance plan operated by the government. The idea is that it will have the power of the government/size to negotiate lower rates with providers, and will not have to make a profit - both of which should create competition for lower premiums - but otherwise it is just another insurance option that people will be able to choose from.

A "medicarish" plan would be single payer - and that's not in any of the bills.

[stray cat]

16. Better not to have a robust public option then?

[MNDemNY]

20. Hardly "robust"if it's opt-out.

[SpartanDem]

17. How many states opt out of Medicaide?

[MNDemNY]

21. Every one that is allowed.

[blm]

44. List every one that you know.

.

[MNDemNY]

45. 0 (zero) That is every one that is allowed.

[blm]

47. states COULD have fought it more vigorously...but...they didn't.

.

[MNDemNY]

48. .

:o :rofl: :rofl:

[MNDemNY]

23. WOW they are really running with this turkey, are they not?

Maybe Opt-out by county?? Why not? sheesh.

[blm]

28. Relax - you think REALTORS, builders, and mortgage lenders will LET their states opt out?

Reality WILL win out on this.

[ddeclue]

29. YES

[blm]

32. Nope. Ironically, the GREED class won't LET their states opt out because they know full well

their own bottom lines will suffer too much.

[ddeclue]

39. WRONG! Otherwise Florida wouldn't have crappy schools and lowest per pupil spending in the nation.

Realtors are the PROBLEM, not the solution here in Florida. They don't fear a mass exodus and why should they? People don't move because of health care, the move for jobs then for better weather and cheaper housing.


You really should learn something about how politics actually works you know.

[blm]

42. I think on THIS they will do the math and look out for themselves - opting out of PO will hurt

their business and it won't take long before they realize it.

GOP pols are craven and cowardly and they won't be ABLE to withstand pressure from their donor base once the reality sinks in - and it WILL sink in, even in Florida eventually.

[Are_grits_groceries]

30. *snort*

SC has been so far from reality lately that I'm not sure how long it will take to return.

We have a governor who thinks he is King David, and won't resign. Even if he is impeached, he has vowed to use every legal means to stay in office. The legislature can work on state business or deal with him for the entire session.

[blm]

31. The calculations will come.....

my spouse's family owns one of the largest realty firms in SC. The undeniable math will be reality.

[Are_grits_groceries]

36. I might believe that

except for the fact that they haven't peeped while Sanford and the legislature have systematically destroyed the

public education system. We might get healthier citizens one day, but they will be a lot dumber.

[blm]

37. The numbers will win out on this one when realty firms, homebuilders, etc... do the math on this.

The GOPs will have no choice, even in SC.

[Are_grits_groceries]

38. How will the realty companies pressure the GOP?

Money?

Hell, Howard Rich has pumped millions into this state to make it his little experiment. Through shells he has gone to the state level.

Th lege is up to the highest bidder.

[blm]

40. ALOT of realtors were/are GOP donors. Ditto for homebuilders, mortgage lenders, local banks.

How will a significant number of residents leaving the state (for one with healthcare options the working class can afford) be good for THEIR businesses?

[ddeclue]

41. BLM is clueless if he thinks that realty companies will drive better quality of life in ANY issue.

Florida has some of the crappiest schools around and the lowest per pupil expenditures - SC isn't far behind us. People don't move for healthcare they move for better jobs, cheaper houses and better weather and the real estate people know it and could give a crap about the public option.

[blm]

43. Not just realtors - homebuilders, mortgage companies, local banks, retailers...ALL businesses that

would have difficulty with even a 4% drop in population at this point.

BTW, I don't alert on posts that rely on insults, however, it would be nice for you to correct yourself.

[Are_grits_groceries]

52. Who do you think is moving??

People here don't have brazillions of dollars and the ones that do can afford insurance. Who are these people who are going to up and leave the state?

Many have made do without health care and everything else for so long that it will just be one more expected lump.

[blm]

56. Those who CAN make the change to gain affordable healthcare will make it. - but, I doubt it

will get to that point because more GOP business donors will side WITH keeping public option than there'll be demanding SC opt out.

[DevonRex]

46. I'm sick of the red state people controlling everything. If they don't want it, fine.

They elected their representatives and there are consequences to that. The rest of us want health care reform and shouldn't have to be held hostage by the nuts in Congress.

[laughingliberal]

50. This does not 'just dump the whole mess into the states'

An opt-in plan would do that. But, as I see it, this establishes the public option at a national level and states which choose not to have a public plan as part of their exchange will have to vote to opt out of it.

[Are_grits_groceries]

54. Exactly.

It's not a personal opt out so we are at the mercy of our legislators. You don't know the idiotic politics of this state or you wouldn't blithely assume that it will be so easy.

[stray cat]

53. Why have states if they have are to have no rights?

[Thickasabrick]

55. States should have rights - as long as they do not impede on

the rest of the country's rights - which in this case will hurt the program as a whole if it is not national.

Should states have the right to practice social darwinism? That is what they are doing by choosing to allow large segments of their poor to go without health insurance. They do not care if they die, they just want them to "die quickly".