Only in America...4 year old dies from Chicken Pox.

[elehhhhna]

Are we officially the third world yet?

One of my clients grandson had chicken pox. No health insurance. By the time the Dad brought the boy to the hospital ER, he had a 107 degree fever, was basically braindead, and died the next morning.


Nice country we got.

[Barack_America]

1. Not true.

This happens in many 3rd world countries similar to ours.

My condolences to your client's family for their tragic loss.

[rocktivity]

2. And the parents will probably be charged with neglect.

I guess polio and anthrax will be making comebacks, too.

:mad:
rocktivity

[Lance_Boyle]

47. as they should be

Regardless of whether the parents are insured, there are programs to cover kids (SCHIP and similar state programs). If the parents did not avail themselves of these services they were neglectful and at least indirectly caused the death of the kid. ER before temp hit 107 would've been wise, too. Yeah - the parents do bear some blame in this.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. As sad as the death of a child is, why wasn't the child vaccinated for chicken pox?

[Kittycat]

15. Maybe the cost, but also could be that it didn't take.

The pox vax isn't a gaurantee that you won't get it - it's only 70-90% effective. Just like having chicken pox as a child isn't a certainty that you won't get it again. Typically the disease would be milder after the shot though.

[ctaylors6]

25. in TX, child should be able to get free chicken pox vaccine if uninsured

at least that's been my experience.

Link to info about childhood vaccines on dallas county hhs website: http://www.dallascounty.org/department/hhservices/services/immunization/vfc.html

"Who is eligible for vaccination?
Under federal government regulations, children from birth - 18 years of age are eligible to receive free vaccines if they are:
Medicaid eligible
Uninsured
American Indians
Native Alaskans
Covered under a health plan that does not cover vaccines"

[lapislzi]

31. Correct. My daughter had chicken pox after being vaccinated.

Her pediatrician was very pushy about the vaccine, which I really wasn't in favor of at the time. In retrospect, I guess her case of chicken pox was slightly milder than that of her best friend (not vaccinated; became sick at the same time) as a result of the vaccine.

[Kittycat]

41. I had the pox twice.

Once around age 2, the second time at age 13. At 13, it was pretty bad - far worse than the 7 year old cousin that I got it from.

[Silent3]

20. What? You'd rather the kid live and get TEH AUTISM!!11!!1?

Don't you know vaccines are just an evil conspiracy by Big Pharma? The kid just needed to eat organic food and drink the right herbal tea and have his energy field balanced and he would have been OK.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. I am so sad to hear that. Yes, Chicken Pox does still claim lives in this country. Not a lot, but

even one is too many. :(

[Brigid]

5. But isn't this experience what the RW calls "uniquely American?"

Sort of like working 3 jobs to make ends meet? :sarcasm:

Yes, we are Third World now.

[sandnsea]

6. Maybe if people called the EMT's

and overloaded that system, the communities would finally get a clue. This shouldn't be an issue, but people should never choose paying an ER bill over their child's life. Did they think they wouldn't be seen without money? Do people not know the ER has to see them?

[Tansy_Gold]

12. Many people DON'T know that.

Many people think ERs are for car accidents and shootings and stuff. They don't know it's for sickness, too. And the ER can send you a bill and turn it over to collections, too, so even if they "see" you without proof of insurance you can still get into financial problems with them.

Many people don't know how to recognize an "emergency." My husband never could figure out how to read a thermometer. Some people don't know that 107 is a dangerously high temperature. Hell, we have outdoor temps of 115 here in Arizona and no one thinks anything of it, so there are a lot of people who may think a body temperature of 115 is, well, just a little warm.

The point is -- no one should ever ever ever have any qualms about taking a sick child for medical treatment. The worry over the money shouldn't even be part of the equation. It shouldn't depend on what they know or don't know about their rights as ER patients. It should only depend on "My kid is sick, I'm taking her to the doctor. The doctor will take care of her."

DO NOT BLAME THE VICTIM, who is the CHILD, not the parents.



Tansy Gold

[sandnsea]

22. I didn't blame anybody except the system

Including the part of the system that doesn't inform new parents of the signs that a child needs to go to the ER.

I asked about the people the OP sees, in particular, and whether they know they won't need money up front to go to the ER. Arkansas and Nevada are the only two places I have ever lived where they asked for money up front, even if someone was sick. It would be logical for people to conclude the ER was the same way. So I asked if the OP knew if that was a problem that could be readily addressed.

As to collections. If you don't routinely have money to pay a medical bill, then it is likely that you don't have money to pay a lot of other bills, and collections are a routine part of your life. The collection agency may be a reason to not get diagnostics on things like cancer and other silent killers. It is not an excuse to not go to the ER when a child has a 107 fever, provided you know that it's dangerous and know that you don't need cash at the ER.

[Tansy_Gold]

32. Bad assumptions

People who don't "routinely have money to pay a medical bill" may not necessarily be behind on paying other bills and have collection agencies as a "routine" part of their life.

At least in Arizona -- I can't speak for all other states, but given how conservative AZ is, it may serve as a worthwhile example -- poor children and even their families are covered by Medicaid. Really poor families, those who qualify for WIC for example, do get counseling and intervention (if that's the proper word; forgive me if it isn't). But for those people who fall in the middle, the working not-quite-so-poor who have a job but no insurance, or who are "between" jobs and can't afford COBRA and don't qualify for other assistance, or whatever, the whole fucking system is broken.

As Olbermann said last night NO ONE WITH A SICK FAMILY MEMBER SHOULD EVER EVEN HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE MONEY.

It shouldn't be a question of is my child sick enough to warrant an ER visit and risk the huge expense and possibly collections and possibly bankruptcy and a host of other bad things; it should be nothing more than my child is sick so I'll take her to the doctor.

Instead, a little girl with chicken pox is one of the 122 people who didn't make it from one day to the next because they didn't have insurance.


Tansy Gold

[sandnsea]

37. rant rant rant and fix nothing

What good does it do anybody for you to sit and rant about 'nobody should have to worry about money if someone is sick'.

What good is your rant if the parent can't recognize the signs to get the child medical care in the first place? Do you really believe every parent will take every child to the doctor over chicken pox?? I didn't take mine and I had insurance. Of course I know the signs of lethargy, dehydration, breathing, and fever that indicate an emergency. It will always be necessary to provide that information to young parents.

And why would you not advocate implementing a campaign to educate people about the availability of the ER to the sick? That can be done today. That can be done regardless of any health care plan. Why would you oppose that?

[Tansy_Gold]

42. And who's gonna "implement" that campaign?

Talk about rant rant rant and not providing solutions. Sheesh.

What's your suggestion? That we have mandatory parenting classes? Who's gonna force the parents to go? Who's gonna teach 'em? And where? And where's the money gonna come from?

You want the schools to do it? How many teen-agers are gonna remember that stuff when it matters? Oh, I'm sure you remember every single thing you were taught in high school, but I'm talking about "average" teen-agers.

Are you going to make it a requirement for graduation? What if they drop out?

Or do you want some kind of licensing process before they can get pregnant? Or maybe before they take their baby home from the hospital?

Would you prefer tv classes in parenting? Public service announcements that point out the warning signs, along with the information that they can take their child to the local ER? How will you guarantee that every new parent -- or old parent for that matter -- will catch those PSAs?

IF WE HAD UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE -- and I'm not talking some watered-down GOP-designed piece of crap that protects the ins. cos.' profits and leaves 50,000,000 people without adequate health CARE -- mothers would be able to get at least some of that training while they're in the hospital after delivery instead of being hustled in and out in 24 hours. They could get more of it when they take their babies in for routine well-child check-ups and care. They wouldn't be afraid to take their babies to the doctor when they're sick, even for something as simple or mild or routine as chicken pox.

What we've got now is a system that not only doesn't afford people the opportunity to learn what you or I may consider basic child care skills, but ALSO scares people away from the doctor or other health care professional AT EVERY STAGE OF THE GAME. They're conditioned by a host of social factors to avoid going to the doctor, and that is precisely where they're most likely to get the best information on childhood diseases, symptoms, etc. That's not something that's going to be fixed by a few PSAs or posters on the subway. (Said PSAs and posters wouldn't hurt, mind you, but that's not what's going to solve this problem.)

TG

[sandnsea]

43. Gosh. Vermont has a nurse visitation program

Or, I know, they could hand out a flier to every new parent right in the hospital room. No Cash Required For Emergency Room Visits!

Yes, that is exactly what will fix this problem. It's the only thing that's ever fixed these kinds of problems, outreach at the source. Making sure the information is reinforced every place a baby or toddler visits, like when they get free immunizations at the county health clinic or even McDonalds.

Programs that go through sophisticated mechanisms like you're talking about usually stay in those ivory towers.

And universal health care is not going to fix every parent who doesn't believe in doctors, either because they prefer old wives tales or because they don't trust big pharma. There aren't any magic wands.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Whoa. I didn't realize it was even possible to die of chicken pox.

Poor kid. Poor family. :(

[slackmaster]

9. It's very rare - More kids probably die of post-chicken pox encephalitis

My brother had a terrible case of that.

[Brickbat]

11. From the CDC:

Many people are not aware that before a vaccine was available approximately 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S. every year.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Thanks!

[RobinA]

8. Sounds Extreme

I never even went to the Dr. for chicken pox, nor did most people I know. Sounds like an unusual case. I'm sure you can find someone who died of almost anything. Not sure it says much about health care.

[SouthernLiberal]

14. I had chicken pox

But then every child I knew at the time got it. No, I didn't go to a doctor. This was the 'good old days' of American Health Care - the doctor came to me.

If anyone is thinking that I lived in a small town or rural area - nope!. This would have been the (very) late 1950s, and I lived in the South Bronx.

[uppityperson]

21. So did I, but as a young child, wasn't aware of those who died from it.

That is one of the problems with people (not accusing you but for those who do) saying "we all survived" is many didn't, and as a young child we weren't always aware of those deaths.

[slackmaster]

10. Any hospital ER would have treated the child regardless of lack of insurance

It's not the country's fault that the dad delayed taking the boy to the hospital.

[Vincardog]

13. They would have treated him and sent the $10,000 bill to the family

It is not as if the ER was FREE for anyone except for the illegals who are paid for by MEDICARE

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Jump to illogical conclusions much?

[Vincardog]

18. What illogical conclusions do you speak of?

[sinkingfeeling]

27. That only 'illegals' receive FREE ER treatment via Medicaid for starters.

[Vincardog]

28. In my state the illegals get free ER visits/ I get a bill. Your point is?

[sandnsea]

30. Who told you that?

That is just not true.

What happens is the federal government reimburses the states for their losses because local governments complained. So now the same people who complained about being overloaded treating the illegals are now complaining that the illegals get free care. It's insane.

[Vincardog]

34. I came across it online while looking for help paying my medical bills. Don't get me wrong

I think everyone should have access to affordable quality HEALTH CARE.
I am not bashing anyone. I am simply stating the facts as I have found them to be.
All of this Illegal sub thread is just because I responded to the question asked
"Why not take him to the ER?" The father DID take the child to the ER.
My answer was meant to point out the high cost of the ER and why that might have caused the parents to be slow to go there.
I am tired of immigrants being used to confuse and distract us from the real issues, and that was never my intent.

[sinkingfeeling]

35. If you're referring to services provided under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

of 1986, then the ER exam is for anybody, regardless of citizenship, legal status, or ability to pay. The treatment must take place in a Medicare provider hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

[sandnsea]

38. Which doesn't say treatment is free

It says everyone must be treated. Big difference.

[slackmaster]

17. The child would probably still be alive

Focus on the only issue that really matters.

[sandnsea]

24. And three years later it drops off your credit

and you have a live child.

And wow on the illegals, just wow. Totally untrue.

[Vincardog]

26. Are you telling me that my medical bills will just drop off my credit report? What about the

judgments the collection agencies are putting against me?

[sandnsea]

29. Unless you have a home

Then they'll put a lien on that and that's a problem. But if you rent and have a low income job, which is the situation described in the OP, then the bill is turned over to collection and they don't even waste the money to sue you. They only sue if you have a job with enough income to get something from, or a house.

[slackmaster]

44. They'll go away after a while too

Just keep ignoring them, and you'll be fine. The rest of us will take up the slack for your inability to pay your bills.

[WI_DEM]

46. People have got to do research nearly every hospital in this country now has uncompensated care

programs to help people without insurance. I work in a hospital ER and I give them out all the time and we write off millions of dollars every year. That child could have been saved but the parent was more worried about the bill instead of his kid.

[chatnoir]

19. Are we officially Third World yet?

;(

[uppityperson]

23. That poor kid, poor family, and no, not "only in america" but all over the world.

[Rebubula]

33. OK....this sucks...

...but this is LIFE! People get sick and die all the freaking time.

Everyone that I know got the chicken pox - hell, we had pox parties so all the kids would get it early - and none of them died. None of us got immunized. My Brother was sick as hell and still has scars from the pox. We had to put him a ice bath to get his fever down when it hit 103.

This has FUCK ALL to do with Health Insurance and FUCK ALL to do with how fucked up our country may or may not be.

I am truly sorry for your clients grandson, but this shit happens and finding someone to blame does not make it better.

[sandnsea]

39. It's called preventive care

Part of health care reform is supposed to be to keep people from getting sick. Yes we all had the chicken pox, I had german measles. But people did suffer all kinds of consequences from those diseases, including death. Why not prevent them when possible? And my gosh why not prevent the death of a child from such a routine disease? This child should not have died and there's not much point to reforming health care if this child isn't at the core of what we're doing.

[Obamanaut]

40. Actually, if anyone in any part of the world dies, then no, it is not "only

in America." It is tragic when children die from any injury or disease, but it is elsewhere also.

[WI_DEM]

45. Actually if you look at stats from probably any civilized country I'm sure that there is an ocassion

death from chicken pox. And, secondly I blame the parent for not taking the child to seek health care sooner. I work in an ER and no ER would turn that child away and if the parent had no health insurance and was afraid of what it woudl cost them-- nearly every hospital has an uncompensated care program.

[sl8]

48. Mortality statistics for varicella (chickenpox), by country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_var_chi_percap-mortality-varicella-chickenpox-per-capita