If these moon bombing threads have shown us anything

[NeedleCast]

It should be that the anti-knowledge people on both sides of the political spectrum are close enough to hold hand when it comes to their agendas. I've yet to hear a reasonable explanation from any of our resident anti-knowledge on why their opposition to using a metal can to impact the moon is any different from religious fundamentalist opposition to stem cell research (or any other issue involving advanced science).

Reminds me of the big flap over the LHC (that's Large Hadron Collider...or the dreaded machine that was going to cause black holes that would destroy the world according to a handful of DU'ers). Nothing more that people with no or a very limited understanding of science sounding off with their knee-jerk reactions to something they know nothing about. In the last 24 hours I've seen DU'ers claim we should stop this experiment because

1. Its disrespectful to lunar religions
2. Could crack the moon
3. Could knock the moon off it's orbit
4. Its really just a warmongering, saber rattling event aimed at scaring (insert axis of evil country here)

It kills me that on the political left we have almost as many anti-knowledge, anti-science freaks as the right does and that their reasons for thwarting scientific progress are just as ludicrous as those on the right. If you managed to make it through a 9th grade natural sciences class, you should be ashamed of yourself if you're one of the people I'm talking about. The worst part is the wilful ignorance I've seen by the anti-science crowd saying things like "well, it's my gut feeling that something will go wrong" or "I don't know anything about physics but here's my (ridiculous opinion)." You know, I don't know much about plumbing, so when the topic of plumbing comes up I'm smart enough to shut the fuck up about it and listen to the people who know more about the topic than I do. Try it, you'll look less stupid.

At the end of the day though, this stuff is all moot, since the Earth was already destroyed on September 10th, 2008. Those of you who don't think the earth has been destroyed are just clinging to your delusions.

http://qntm.org/?board

[Richardo]

1. Enthusiastic K&R

:applause: + :patriot:

[Go2Peace]

204. Arrogant people with superiority complexes who have nothing better to do, now those are foolish

people.

I am not "worried" or against the test tomorrow, but I sure am against the arrogant anti-social crap I see filling this thread.

If you all are really so intelligent and confident you would not need to spend this much effort putting others down, even if they do misunderstand.

And science creates tools and provides information for our betterment, but it is compassion and empathy that make those tools into something that makes our world better.

I know most in this thread don't mean to be, and probably are much nicer in person than they come off here. But this sure isn't a thread to be proud of.

Think about it? You really think your thoughts and attitude in this thread are intellectual?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

213. Just because we're superior, it doesn't mean we're arrogant or have superiority complexes.

There's nothing arrogant about rejecting the abject stupidity of these anti-science nuts.

[Go2Peace]

220. You forgot the "sarcasm" tag

My comment here is not directed at you but a response to the general idea

I would be willing to bet there are certain subjects with which I could stump you, even make you look stupid. As I am sure you could find things I do not know and I could appear to be "stupidly" unknowledgable about your favorite subject areas. Does that mean you are "stupid"?

And what does it mean if you *are* stupid? Does it affect me? Well it could. And if it could somehow affect me, and there were no reason that you were an immediate threat, what would be the most intellectual approach to dealing with your "stupidity"? Well, it sure would not be to declare myself superior and proceed to say things meant to offend you. No, if I have an intelligent understanding of human nature, I would also understand that this approach is not only inneffective, but in fact is quite likely to have the opposite effect of making them resistant. Like most of us feel about torture on this board. While it may "feel good" and feed our sense of superiority, it certainly is not an intelligent approach.

None of us is perfect, and everyone can get frustrated and lash out when it might be better to take a different approach. But if we want to accurately convey who is being "smart" or which approach a to a subject is with better reasoning the knowlege means little, if it is not also accompanied by wisdom.

I reject the entire thesis of this thread. Certainly there are good reasons to be frustrated and annoyed at ignorance, but using knowledge to beat down others is also a type of ignorance. This thread is not enlightening. It just shows that we all have a lot to learn.

[NeedleCast]

290. Here's where the issue lies

"I would be willing to bet there are certain subjects with which I could stump you, even make you look stupid. As I am sure you could find things I do not know and I could appear to be "stupidly" unknowledgable about your favorite subject areas. Does that mean you are "stupid"?"

I'm sure you're correct. The difference between me and the anti-knowledge folks on this topic is that their opinion is shaped by "gut feelings" and a knee-jerk reaction to radical hypothetical situations that "might" happen. Like the handful of people who were carrying on about cracking the moon or knocking it out of orbit. Those two ideas show an absolute lack of knowledge. They are not plausible. There is no chance that they would happen. Yet said handful of people went on, at length, in several threads about cracking, destroying or otherwise significantly changing the moon.

I am certain there are plenty of subjects I know little about and the thing is, I don't pretend to. As I pointed out in the OP, I don't feel the need to engage in 40-post sub-threads about something I know nothing about just to attempt to validate my misguided point of view.

That's the difference.

[Zix]

488. You're quite right, but to be fair...

... at least one of those "mooncrack" posters was completely pulling his opponent's leg to see how far it would stretch.

[Lucky Luciano]

526. ahhh....that is a good explanation...did not see any of that

discussion, but if someone has a lot of time to waste, such things could be amusing.

[Zix]

527. He was EXTREMELY good at it, but in the end there just wasn't any doubt.

He had to blow his cover.

[omega minimo]

521. You're dancing with your own strawmen.

"Like the handful of people who were carrying on about cracking the moon or knocking it out of orbit. Those two ideas show an absolute lack of knowledge. They are not plausible."

Yet you pretend to believe that those were sincere posts, representative of any and all posters who don't have your prescribed POV.

"There is no chance that they would happen. Yet said handful of people went on, at length, in several threads about cracking, destroying or otherwise significantly changing the moon."

Yet you extrapolate the exaggerated or phony posts and apply them to every other post that you don't approve of.

"As I pointed out in the OP, I don't feel the need to engage in 40-post sub-threads about something I know nothing about just to attempt to validate my misguided point of view."

Yet you fell the need to engage in a self-referential OP that is openly based and dependent on the most absurd claims that you have pretended to believe were real, pretended were not fake or exaggerated, which you extrapolated and misapplied to every other poster lumped together by your scorn.

With no evidence.

Not very scientific! :crazy:

[omega minimo]

219. Oh don't doubt they "mean to be"

As you say,

"If you all are really so intelligent and confident you would not need to spend this much effort putting others down.... Think about it? You really think your thoughts and attitude in this thread are intellectual?"

Thanks for some sane perspective. :hi:

[Go2Peace]

222. I am somewhat curious to know what "ignored" said, but likely it was not very helpful

(the previous reply above)
I only have two people on ignore, and you are apparently one of them. So my general interest in your feedback is obvious.

[Warren DeMontague]

229. Whoa! Speaking of "feedback".

I think maybe he was looking for the snack bar. It's kind of confusing in here.

[Duncan]

301. I love this album. nt.

[Rude Dog]

242. If you were any more full of yourself...

...you'd explode.

Take your projection and your puffery and begone.

[L0oniX]

288. So What ...I am arrogant and anti-social! WTF are you gonna do about it ...asscarrot?

:wtf:

:sarcasm:

[Duncan]

303. I agree

I think the moon bombing sounds like good science (questions over wisdom of moon mission aside), but the original post sounds like arrogant bluster. This is a discussion forum. If one has a logical or scientific disagreement with a post the civil thing to do is discuss it, not start another thread broadly bashing people who have questions or concerns, however unwarranted they may be. If folks are so agitated by unscientific concern for the moon, perhaps they should stay away from forums where not everybody is a scientist, although that might be kind of boring.

[rd_kent]

354. Informing the ignorant is NOT "putting people down". Consider yourself informed.

[Towlie]

285. Exclusive satellite photo of impact with the moon!

[BlooInBloo]

2. "we have almost as many anti-knowledge, anti-science freaks" - Hear me now...

believe me later.


It's simply an AMERICAN trait.

People on our side aren't significantly brighter than people on their side. It's just that people on our side happen to be on the right team.

[NeedleCast]

6. +1 for Hanz and Franz

[BlooInBloo]

11. Is it nuclear or conventional?

That's a keeper.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[NeedleCast]

44. and beyond the LOL aspect of it

it becomes obvious that the champions of anti-knoweldge are to intellectually lazy to read a fucking three paragraph article.

[ashling]

97. Are they too intellectually lazy to proof before they post?

it becomes obvious that the champions of anti-knoweldge are to intellectually lazy to read a fucking three paragraph article.

:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

105. No. They simply don't *care* about truth.

[NeedleCast]

110. Wow, you got me on that spelling zingger!

[Tesha]

142. I've heard that there's *NUCLEAR MATERIAL* in everything!!! (NT)

[TxRider]

46. It's a "Human" trait...

[BlooInBloo]

47. Possibly. But Americans are just a little better at it than other industrialized countries.

[hfojvt]

124. let's be accurate here

Do we really have 'almost as many'. Has anybody done a count? As a percentage?

This OP sorta reminds me of other wailing about DUers. For example, when Steve Irwin died, there were about five DUers and one thread who dissed him and then there were about twenty threads exclaiming outrage about "all the DUers who were dissing Steve Irwin". The complaints were much more numerous than the people being complained about.

Some people are just always outraged that even ONE person would differ from their own sensible opinion or POV that when it happens with two people that it means the sky has fallen.

[woo me with science]

183. Just count posts to the woo forum here

as opposed to any other interest group.

Look at any thread on "Reiki" or repressed memories or homeopathy.

Yes, we have as many.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

246. I saw a couple of ridiculous posts about bombing the moon

I saw many more posts about those "intellectually lazy" and "hypertensive douchebags" who dared question the intentions and reasons for "bombing the moon" and I too would like to see those percentages of the intellectually lazy people on the left.

Sure if those people had actually read about what we are doing on the moon would have known we aren't bombing the moon at all, but come on the OP is a bit hyperbolic don't you think.

[Regret My New Name]

131. You mean left team. ;)

[BlooInBloo]

149. Bah.

:P

[Orsino]

279. Well, there are all kinds of smart...

...but I think our side has the edge in at least some of them. Embracing diversity necessitates looking past surface differences, whether in search of similarities or in celebration of said differences. Similarly, a willingness to learn requires an ability to cope with new data that risk altering one's worldview.

The other side, I'll opine, lags in those areas.

[Silent3]

298. There's no progress without a bullshit filter

There's a difference between "embracing diversity" and giving really stupid, ignorant ideas respect that they don't deserve. The rules of public debate have to be a bit sterner, a bit more rough-and-tumble, than the rules you might apply at a family gathering to try to make sure dinner stays pleasant and no fights break out.

[alarimer]

321. The reason for American ignorance is religion

As well as a deep-seated anti-intellectual streak. The two things are deadly in combination.

[old mark]

416. Religion and anti intellectualism go hand in hand - religion is one

of the worst ideas we humans have ever come up with.

mark

[Marr]

338. Very true.

Have you read Age of American Unreason? It's a very interesting read. It's about the deep strain of anti-intellectualism that has run through American culture for at least 100 years.

[SoxFan]

3. The Moon left Earth orbit in September, 1999

[Cheap_Trick]

Yes! That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Loved that show as a kid. For awhile I liked it better than Star Trek.

[AngryAmish]

77. The year 1994:

From out of space comes a runaway
planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon,
unleashing cosmic destruction. Man's civilization is
cast in ruin.

Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn...

A strange new world rises from the old: a world of
savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man
bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions
Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength,
his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword against the
forces of evil.

He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!

[whopis01]

203. It didn't even have to hit the moon to split it in two!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhAobPugvsk

[slay]

211. Ariel, Ookla - ride!

[Omnibus]

243. I am hoping the Moon splits in two later tonight for just this reason.

What lad WOULDN'T want a fabulous Sun Sword?

[RaleighNCDUer]

307. I LOVED that show -

I'd get off work, go home, light up a doobie and watch it at like 8 AM.

Of course, my guage of the quality of the show might have been influenced by the ganja.

[Art_from_Ark]

146. September 13, 1999, to be exact (LOL)

When that program came out in the '70s, 1999 seemed sooooooooo far into the future-- and now, it's 10 years in the past.

And there is still no moon base.

[slay]

214. In 2022, the explosion of an experimental warp gateway caused major damage to the Moon,

strafed the Earth with radiation, and left an asteroid ring that threatens the surface with daily meteor bombardments. As a result, many survivors abandoned the barely-habitable Earth to colonize the inner planets and moons of Jupiter. The series opens in 2071, decades after the accident, when the entire solar system has been made accessible via reliable warp gates. The crew of the Bebop spends much of its time on Mars, the new central hub of human civilization. :)

[Rude Dog]

244. Oh god damn you.

I made that joke already!

[slay]

300. Not that I saw

Cowboyyyyyyyy Beboppppppp... da na na na na na - ba ba ba ba ba ba duh nah nah nah nah duh bah bah bah bah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zDfxZ4NcE

[EnviroBat]

282. Wow! I used to LIVE for that show!!!

It was really cool and realistic. When they were in space, there was no sound, and they had to wear suits and such. It gave the show a "believability" aspect. I can only assume that they took some clues from Kubrek. I actually had one of the toy ships. The design was very realistic, like something NASA came up with.

[Richardo]

4. FAQ: "My baby's in there!"

A: Your baby has most likely been destroyed.

:rofl:

Great link there, NeedleCast

[NeedleCast]

9. Thanks, one of my favorite websites

it's a shame no more updates will occur since the earth has been destroyed =(

[Buzz Clik]

5. They're bombing the moon? Unmanned drones, no doubt. Yet another quagmire.

Does anyone have the body count? We need someone to have a daily display of the number of troops and civilians killed.

[Swede]

7. You forgot the green cheese fault out.

:shrug:

[Seldona]

80. Mmm, can't wait for that.

lol

[L0oniX]

289. The cheese is being harvested.

[anigbrowl]

8. Agreed. Stupid people are the main obstacle to progress.

As someone said, I can kinda tolerate creationists and people like that who have had some nonsensical myth drummed into their heads from day 1 and aren't allowed to go to regular schools. They have the excuse of genuine ignorance, for a while anyway. But people who have access to a regular education with a regular science curriculum and ignore it have no damn excuse.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. The less informed, the louder they get

For some reason, a lot of people think with their feelings. Feelings are fine -- but not for making factual evaluations, even very simple ones.

A scientific orientation does not require complexity, social unpopularity, suppression of emotion, or the arrogance ascribed to it by the old left. All it requires is the ability to ask oneself, "really?"

--d!

[BlooInBloo]

13. Yep - they reinforce each other's stupidity - misery loves company, after all.

[SidDithers]

263. It's a positive feedback loop of dumbassery...nt

Sid

[The Straight Story]

12. About the whole anti-knowledge thing

There are many shows which cover things like EVP/ghosts/etc where folks find evidence (and as I have stated before, done my own investigations as well).

For me - from a science point of view, makes no sense. From a Christian (which I am) POV when you die you either go to Heaven/Paradise/Sleep until Judgment day/so on. So again, makes not sense.

And yet - throughout history and now with the ability to record voices (some that respond to questions, some which are just there), and having experienced this myself - and known many others to have had similar such things happen to them - why do people of a science mind simply ignore the evidence?

Is it because it might challenge a belief they hold?

Why not investigate more given the mass amount of eyewitness evidence and recordings and seek answers, and why do some just dismiss something out of hand?

I look for truth and answers, not something to confirm my biases and hold them up for me.

If it were not for my own, multiple, personal experiences (many through attempting to learn more) I would not put much stock in such things either.

And don't try to lump in psychics, tarot cards, etc into all this - speaking about a specific item here.

[BlooInBloo]

17. "And don't try to lump in psychics, tarot cards, etc into all this" - Yah!

Because EVERYBODY knows there aren't *12* angels dancing on the pinhead...

There's *27*!!!!

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

29. Precisely the anti-knowledge thing I was addressing

You attack in some ways one thing based on others.

Let's take EVP's as an example:
You can say that the recordings are picking up voices from cars/someone else/etc - which to me would indicate that if you go to the same place over and over again you should get similar results. I have spent many hours at two separate locations and it simply is not so.

Why?

The levels on recordings for evp are different than for normal human voices I can hear (clearly so).

Have you ever attempted to test this yourself? What experience do you have?

I was skeptical myself which is why I chose to test and analyze the info myself instead of relying on people from TV or the net.

I look for explanations at all points. And am left with a mystery for the ones I have gotten.

You have not in anyway contributed to explaining them, because like many you hold beliefs over science and investigation.

[BlooInBloo]

31. Enjoy counting your angels on pinheads....

EDIT: You can *call* what you're talking about "knowledge", "science", or whatever other comfort words you want. And because you live in America, with its high proportion of idiots, chances are good that it'll catch on.

But those of use with REAL physics degrees and REAL math degrees and REAL biology degrees, etc., know that you're just talking stupid.

But you might very well win the popularity battle - congratulations on that, and helping make America a stupider country.

[The Straight Story]

55. And on the physics angle

How much have we discovered over the last 100 years versus what others in the field knew back in their day?

We have everything from string theory to quantum physics that scientists in centuries before might have balked at and asked for proof.

And how do we get proof? We look for it.

And if you don't want to look for it, then you have an issue IMHO.

Like the religious folks who think they know it all and their way is the only way, some in science do the same on certain areas of study.

We are only now getting enough technology to investigate some ideas and either prove or disprove them.

Reminds me of Riemann and prime numbers - no one has proven him right yet, but one can proceed well enough on his theory (like they did with Fermat) and say there is enough evidence to treat it as correct. You can't prove or disprove him, but you can accept on some level his ideals as being true.

[BlooInBloo]

121. "Reminds me of Riemann and prime numbers" - Nothing reminds you of that...

since you have no idea what you're talking about.

[The Straight Story]

202. Not sure what your statement is attempting to imply here

I have enjoyed the study of both math and physics since I was around 14, especially prime number theory (and general number theory).

While I may not be a whiz at things like differential geometry or diophantine equations (which I remember being discussed at length in a 3 volume series on number theory I checked out on a regular basis) as in my youth I have still spent a good deal of my time over many years immersed in the study of numbers - fueled, oddly enough, by trying to better understand computers and simulation programming as well as early attempts at AI (all of this brought on by my first computer, a TRS-80 and a friend of my dad's who wrote war simulations back in the day - his advice to me was to study math, so at 13 I spent all my free time at the library and my free money buying Dover books on related topics). Over the years I was also a huge fan of Joseph Weizenbaum and Douglas R. Hofstadter (whose best book IMHO was Metamagical Themas, though I loved Godel, Escher, Bach).

One of my mentors in chess back in the day was a mathematician (well, he had a masters in it anyway, and was considered a master in chess via the old USCF ratings, I only got to expert level), and while I don't hold a candle to him and his grasp of the subject he was also key to me spending more time attempting to grasp ideas in the field and how they related to everything from chess to programming (and it is interesting to study not only the number of possible chess positions but also how each piece/position relates to others - ala such classics as point count chess, now somewhat outdated but worthwhile to read nonetheless).

I have used languages from PERL to C to VB over the years in my quest for better understanding numbers (Why PERL you might ask? Because it is easier to analyze a text file with the first million primes or PI than to calculate them and then analyze them. PERL is great for such tasks, although with VB and other languages finally getting on the REGEX boat it is no longer as important which language you use with such).

Three nights before my mom passed away I was at the hospital - I took only two items to sit with her: a crossword puzzle (from the Dispatch) and a book on the Riemann hypothesis.

[fifthoffive]

267. Unrepeatable results do not equal proof of anything

Let's take EVP's as an example:
You can say that the recordings are picking up voices from cars/someone else/etc - which to me would indicate that if you go to the same place over and over again you should get similar results. I have spent many hours at two separate locations and it simply is not so...I look for explanations at all points. And am left with a mystery for the ones I have gotten.

Yep - all you have is a mystery based on unrepeatable results. If you can't repeat the results, there's something wrong with the results or the experimental design or both. You are taking the anomaly as proof of something, when the inability to repeat the results is what you should be focused on.

[billh58]

306. Just out of

curiosity, are you an Indigo Child?

[NeedleCast]

25. Straight Story, I'm willing to address the evidence

I don't believe in the paranormal. At all. I do like watching some of those ghost shows but I like them for the history and locations than the attempted discovary of things that go bump in the night.

The issue here is one of evidence...and that issue is a near complete lack of it. Yes, I've seen some things on those shows that doesn't have an explanation (although rarely). That doesn't mean however, that there isn't one.

I have zero problem with people attempting to find answers to the unknown. What I do take issue with is those that have no evidence to back up their "gut feelings." Got a "gut feeling" about something? Develop a scientific method to show evidence that what you're postulating does indeed exist/work/happen.

I am and likely always will be a skeptic. My attitude is that I'll believe it when I see it AND can prove it in a measurable, demonstrable, repeatable pattern. Unlike many on the opposite end of the specturm who's attitude seems to be "I'll believe in my gut feeling until someone proves me wrong."

[The Straight Story]

45. Well here I agree with you

Which is why I started working on methods to test myself - like using two different brands of recorders, etc and so on.

Sure, maybe they are not 'ghosts' (hard to even define that really) but they are something I cannot rationalize away and say do not appear or exist.

And I don't simply accept one I get as fact of such spirits existing, but I also do not dismiss them because if there is one thing I have learned in my life it is that I don't know everything and there is a shitload of things out there we don't know.

So I LOOK for answers and do not dismiss something out of hand. I am not relying on others to do so for me.

My simple challenge for others is to try it - then explain it in such a way as that you can reproduce the results based on your theory.

If you don't look and simply dismiss - than that to me is anti-knowledge, and we are not talking about every weird theory someone out there tosses out. Over the course of human history ghosts have been a part of cultures, and now we have folks who say they have captured such things on audio/video tape.

We will build huge colliders to test out ideas/hypothesis and for this case all you need to do is buy a cheap digital recorder and spend some time.

Others have - and have captured things *I* cannot explain (and sometimes don't want to, if ghosts are real - what happens to some religious ideals?, etc) - should we ignore such evidence over our BELIEF that such things cannot be?

Proof for the individual can be there - but you have to be willing to put aside your own ideals and look for it.

[NeedleCast]

60. I think we're talking about apples and oranges here

I appreciate what you're saying but what you're describing is a far cry from what the anti-knowledge crowd around here carries on about. Their opinions are not based on any evidence or testing. Most of them admit that.

[The Straight Story]

65. Not really apples and oranges:

The opinions on folks I have seen (even here) about EVP's are based on their opinions or that of others with no real attempt to look into them their selves.

It does not fit their view, therefore it is not possible to be real.

When you dismiss the evidence of others and then don't even bother to look for yourself (especially when it is so easy) that tells me you don't want real answers, you just want to feel comfortable in your own views.

[billh58]

315. The fallacy

in your argument is in your definition of "evidence." You are using an old trick of asserting that the "evidence" that you have experienced is valid, and therefore I am an unbeliever because I do not attempt to duplicate your "evidence." That is the equivalent of asking me to attempt to prove a negative. The onus of "proof" is on the one who advances the hypothesis, and not those who challenge a logically questionable claim.

The fact is, that you can not duplicate your "evidence" in a laboratory to the satisfaction of unbiased scientists, and anything which requires a subjective interpretation is not really "evidence," is it? What you are advancing is a "belief," and not pure, subjective, scientific evidence. I don't "believe" in talking snakes either...

[BlooInBloo]

48. A fine time for a lesson on "open mindedness"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

[Control-Z]

42. Hey,

I would do anything to have even a pinch of the evidence you are talking about.

"And yet - throughout history and now with the ability to record voices (some that respond to questions, some which are just there), and having experienced this myself - and known many others to have had similar such things happen to them - why do people of a science mind simply ignore the evidence?"

I don't fit into the world of religious and/or paranormal belief. I've seen zero evidence of either. Do you have links to any of the proof you are talking about? I have an open mind and would love to know more about it.

[The Straight Story]

61. Here is a start

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=evps&btnG=Google+Search

Now don't take what you hear via others as truth - go out and buy a cheap recorder (or two, best to have two different ones to use) and look for yourself.

Had I not done so I would not be so adamant about the whole topic.

I looked. I found. And now I want to learn more about who/what/when/where/how/why/etc.

And oddly enough, if you find nothing of note on a recording then you have to ask 'why' because we have been told by some this is just normal interference/etc. If it was, you would expect to find it all the time.

I have heard voices on tape from kids, adults, etc - and some have answered questions. How do I explain that? I can't yet.

[Control-Z]

221. I'm sorry. You must have misunderstood

what I meant by evidence. What someone believes they hear, in muddled static on a tape recording, is even less convincing to me than some of the cloud formations I have personally witnessed (sans camera, of course). A giant hand reaching toward the earth, directed specifically at me, so perfect and detailed I would have sworn it was a painting had I not actually been standing there looking at the sky, does nothing for me but remind me of how much I appreciate the beauty of nature.

There have actually been some scientific studies of the seemingly paranormal, dealing with human energy, and the human mind. That I can believe in. That is the kind of evidence I want. Unfortunately, many of these studies lose credibility as they are usually presented alongside tarot readings and astrology.

But I believe the human mind is phenomenal and powerful. Intuition, for example, and empathy, are real and reliable senses for many people, and in my opinion, worth studying. Human energy - electromagnetic fields - memories - memory storage/memory recall - all amazing, understudied, and scientific, imo.

Some people have memories and dreams that they believe are proof of a past life. I have those memories and dreams myself, and they fit right in with my family's heritage and history and make a lot of sense if you want to go that route. Do I believe I was reincarnated? Nope. I do, however, believe that memories are probably passed on genetically in the same way as eye color and curly hair. I believe that what I remember are actually memories that belonged to my mother, or grandmother. I've got my mother's left ear, why not some of her memories?

There is not a shred of evidence to convince me of anything godly, ghostly, or otherworldly (other than the extra terrestrial, though I haven't personally had any such experience.)

Sorry.

[The Straight Story]

227. My reply:

"What someone believes they hear, in muddled static on a tape recording, is even less convincing to me than some of the cloud formations I have personally witnessed"

First off, your use of the word 'static' is suspect. Many, including myself, have not simply heard 'static'. You can test this for yourself if you care to.

"That is the kind of evidence I want. Unfortunately, many of these studies lose credibility as they are usually presented alongside tarot readings and astrology."

I am not saying you should include such things. You can go out for yourself with a minimal amount of effort and gather evidence - and it will have no relation to tarot readings or astrology.

You would be laughed at for this by many here: "I do, however, believe that memories are probably passed on genetically in the same way as eye color and curly hair. I believe that what I remember are actually memories that belonged to my mother, or grandmother. I've got my mother's left ear, why not some of her memories?"


But where things truly break down? Here:
"There is not a shred of evidence to convince me of anything godly, ghostly, or otherworldly"

You presume that things others find are godly/etc - no one is really saying they are, such things are labels applied by folks who think that anything they cannot explain fall into such a category.

Why do we map the supernatural (as we call it) to the words godly/ghostly/etc? Is it because we cannot understand such in natural terms?

Maybe we just don't 'know it all' and the things we don't know, or cannot replicate, are seen as supernatural. They may well have a reasoning behind them that we just don't understand right now.

[rd_kent]

357. Why do you keep repeating yourself?

You can test this for yourself if you care to.

When you provide actual, testable "evidence" only THEN will others "test it themsleves". Until then, you are the one making dubious claims. You are the one that must prove his hypothesis. The onus is on YOU.

You can go out for yourself with a minimal amount of effort and gather evidence For what? SO I can have dubious reluts as well? Results that still PROVE nothing?

[Odin2005]

75. Science doesn't "ignore the evidence", it's that the "evidence" is crap.

As someone with Asperger's syndrome I have a hard time understanding it, but most "normal" people tend to project their "social reality" on the physical world, leading to people seeing things that don't exist. When this "mentalistic" why of thinking becomes too strong it leads to Schizophrenia and other forms of psychosis.

Religion and popular superstition are just socially acceptable forms of mentalistic psychosis.

[dysfunctional press]

82. evps...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

here's a site that shows just how ridiculous the concept is:
http://theshadowlands.net/ghostwav.htm

listen to some of the recordings, and see if the things that are supposedly said are audible- they aren't. it's just noise and static.
people think that they hear voices in it in the same manner that people tend to see faces in random patterns of things like tile floors, shower curtains, etc...

there are no ghosts.

[The Straight Story]

112. Truly sad IMHO

There are several classes of evp, and while some could well fit into such categories as you describe many do not.

But they won't address those - which is where I have had problems with skeptics over the years 'I can replicate that', 'That one does not sound like you say it does' therefore all are fake or just noise.

What is SAD is that those who don't want them to be anything more than latch onto anything negative they can find to back them up - instead of truly looking into it - ie, some person makes a website that supports you view, you buy into it.

How about looking into for yourself and testing it out yourself? Not real hard to do....

But keep on holding onto beliefs. Much like some folks on the fundie side won't look at things that don't agree with them.

[dysfunctional press]

125. what's truly sad are the people who buy into the malarky...

i don't have to do it for myself- i have a friend who fell into that abyss.
all i, or anyone else who listened to it ever heard was nothing more than varying levels of static/whitenoise/whatever you want to call it- but he would SWEAR that there were voices, and that he could tell what they were saying...

truly SAD imho is right.

[spoony]

224. Good points

It seems some are more than happy to explore areas they know will make people UNLIKE them uncomfortable, which is fine. But then they get stuck in and refuse to explore anything that might shake their OWN worldview. It's dogmatism, plain and simple, where belief comes first and only evidence fitting into the mold is considered worthwhile or valid.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

210. People find evidence of ghosts on TV?

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/10/south-park-ghost-hunters-billy-mays.html

[rd_kent]

355. I have watched a couple of "those shows" on ghost hunters

and the "evidence" they show is anything but.

[SteppingRazor]

14. I recently finished reading Idiot America by Charles Pierce.

Subtitled "How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free." Get a copy, read it, love it. It's more or less about exactly what you're talking about here -- the mainstreaming of the American Crank, and the damage that does to the American system of governance, all told in a hilariously entertaining style.



http://www.amazon.com/Idiot-America-Stupidity-Became-Virtue/dp/0767926145

[NeedleCast]

68. Thanks, I'll check it out

Here's one I would recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Fashionable-Nonsense-Postmodern-Intellectuals-Science/dp/0312204078

[central scrutinizer]

15. oh yeah, Mr. Smarty Pants, what about this?

<>

[BlooInBloo]

177. I'm stealing that.

[yodermon]

191. +1 for Peristalsis linked to the Launch Window

[svpadgham]

217. Science Made Stupid.

I used to have that book when I was a kid. HI-larious!

[knitter4democracy]

283. I had to e-mail that link to my stepdad.

One of the funniest things I've seen in days. :rofl:

[central scrutinizer]

302. It's from Science Made Stupid

hysterical, but unfortunately out of print. A few other excerpts can be found here:

http://www.besse.at/sms/smsintro.html

<>

[winyanstaz]

509. heheh

[yawnmaster]

16. It also changes the pristine state of the moon. I don't know about others, but...

I want my children to see the moon exactly like I see it, without the human caused scarring on its beautiful, pristine surface.
That can be number 5.
But it really isn't anti-science, is it??

[SteppingRazor]

18. .

:banghead:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

270. I'm with you...

:banghead:

:rofl:

:banghead:

:rofl:

:banghead:

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

19. Uh.... "the pristine state of the moon" was besmirched like 45 or so years ago....

She's not a virgin any more, Jim.

[yawnmaster]

41. Because one tree in a primal forest has been cut down we can cut the rest down?!??

I want my children to look up at the moon, with whatever high tech device the future will supply and not see an ugly hole at the south pole. I can think of the jokes that would be made and I become sad.

[Codeine]

52. The "ugly hole" will be essentially invisible unless

you have a very, VERY strong telescope, at which point it will be a crater utterly and completely indistinguishable from all the other craters pocking the surface of the dead rock.

And you're trolling, anyway. Not even sure why I'm responding to you.

[yawnmaster]

53. what do you mean by trolling? I commit offense from that remark.

[comrade snarky]

71. Is English your first language?

If not that's cool and I completely understand. I barely speak another myself so you'd have got me beat.



If English is your first, well then, that post is hillllllaaarious!

[Codeine]

88. He's just playing.

Read his stuff in the other threads. It's performance art, and he got me.

[Zix]

101. He is a wonderful person.

In some ways.

[comrade snarky]

106. Though he does "commit offense"

In some ways

[yawnmaster]

90. Thank you! seriously.

American English is my first.

[comrade snarky]

92. Then you're just here to piss people off for some reason.

Strange Hobby.

Andy Kaufman you're not.

[yawnmaster]

94. If calling a projectile a bomb pisses some people off, well...I can't help that.

Nor can I help if some are pissed off because I claim to like a pristine moon surface.
Nor can I help it if some are pissed off at my apparent stupidity or ignorance.
Nor other generally misplaced pissedness.
If people are pissed at me they should defined the cause of their pissedness and I'll address it.

[comrade snarky]

If you're going to go for comedic art that makes people think

Work on that funny part.

And uh... that thinking part could use some polish too.


Actually, have you ever considered a career in either garden maintenance or the garden supplies industries? Might be a good move.

[BlooInBloo]

178. Hey! It's people like him that guarantee me job security without having to work hard!

Don't mess up a good thing, man.

[comrade snarky]

184. I didn't know you are in gardening!

:evilgrin:

[BlooInBloo]

185. ...

:spray:

Well-played.

[comrade snarky]

188. I cant get a straight line like that and not take it.

My head would have exploded!

:toast:

[yawnmaster]

57. I expect my children and grandchildren to have wonderful technology available. eom

[jberryhill]

295. Not even then....

The target is in a permanently shadowed crater.

That's the point.

[Thornleylv]

235. I feel sorry for kids

When they look up to you. You should let the schools take over you are not able!
And you prove it every time you write somthing this stupid. MORAN!


:kick:

[Rise together]

304. how is that hole different

from all the other holes? :/

[FlaGranny]

513. I very much doubt that ugly hole

will look any different from all the other identical ugly holes surrounding it. Given enough time, it may be obliterated by an asteroid or meteorite. Nothing is around forever.

[Richardo]

20. The Moon hasn't been 'pristine' since Soviet probe Luna 2 impacted Sept 12, 1959

Remember when the Moon disintegrated 40 years ago?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Yes, it's anti-science.

And it's stupid, too.

[yawnmaster]

49. Science does not outweigh all other aspects of an issue...

Anti-science in general can be viewed as a negative.
But does advancing knowledge outweigh keeping a system, such as the moon, pristine for future generations?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

173. You see? Stupid.

[marybourg]

228. Yes. nt.

[ellie]

264. The moon is not pristine

Aliens have been mining the moon for years. See this:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/moon.html

[Xithras]

23. Challenge: Show me an "unscarred" bit of the lunar surface.

There aren't any. Even lunar rocks under microscopes show tiny impact craters from micrometeors.

[yawnmaster]

38. Those are natural pock marks and simply beautiful. I'm talking ugly human based holes. eom

[Dr. Strange]

107. Holy crap.

That was awesome. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

143. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: *gasp* :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Xithras]

144. I assume you're not serious.

:wtf:

[Swamp Rat]

145. *gasp gasp* ....OW! my stomach hurts!

:rofl:

[Lance_Boyle]

297. I give offense at the notion that Courtney Love is a human-based hole.

Or a human-based anything, for that matter.

[twitomy]

237. What I find strange is that people think everything man

does is somehow "unnatural"..Last I heard we are part of nature. IMHO man creating a hole on the moon is no less natural than an asteroid caused one.

Therefore,

Pavement is as natural as a beaver damn. But does not mean the consequences are the same for sure
as Mother Nature gave us incredible environment changing capabilities but also the ability to consider these consequences.

But again, no less "natural"

[uriel1972]

275. yay

what I have been saying for years.

[defendandprotect]

333. We couldn't be more out of tune with nature . . .

which suggests that at best we are hybrids --

What we have to begin to understand before it's too late is that when we are

destroying nature, we are actually destroying ourselves!

And, of course, most of us would be willing to trade this beautiful blue planet for

a cement ball -- especially if it happens not all at once!

"Survival of the fittest" is based not on violence or physical strength, but the

species which cooperates best with nature. That leaves us out!

[rd_kent]

360. Hahahah! You are a dumbass.

[snooper2]

26. ROFL

:rofl:

[NeedleCast]

30. Not Anti-Science, just stupid

So you don't have an issue with the thousands of impact craters on the moon, but if we put one human-created ding in it that wont be visible with the naked eye, you've got issues?

Tell ya what, take a fucking picture now, because we're about to make a ding. Then you and the kiddos can enjoy the moon in its natural habitat for all time.

(P.S. The impact site is in a crater near the lunar pole. You cant see into the crater without instruments designed to do so, so this impact will not be visible, nor will it leave any visible damage on the moon, so your argument is moot (and stupid)).

[yawnmaster]

36. would you say the same of our forests and deserts? take a picture??? eom

[NeedleCast]

56. Your analogy is a horrible disaster

I'm assuming at this point that you have no vehicle, no furnishings and probably no home, because to have those things, one would have to accept that your lifestyle has at some point damaged a previously undamaged thing.

You remind me of an old story.

Man walks up to a woman and asks her if she'll have sex with him for a million dollars. She says "Sure!" Then he asks here if she'll have sex with him for five dollars. She says "No way, what do you think I am, a whore?" The man says "Yes, we've already determined that, now we're just negotiating over the cost."

So I'll ask again - Oh champion of the pristine moon movement - do you oppose stem cell research? Do you think we should continue to let people live in pain and/or die simpley because the fundies object to it on moral grounds?

[yawnmaster]

59. you mean doing stem cell research on the moon?? yes...I don't think we need...

to put research facilities on the moon.
Don't you realize that would hurt the surface far worse than this bomb?
We have plenty of space on Earth for that. No need to destroy the gray beauty of our Luna.

[NeedleCast]

63. I cant be sure if you're being intentionally obtuse for kicks

or if you're serious. I hope it's the former.

Your basic attitude seems to be that we've done enough science and should just leave well enough alone from here on out. I don't accept that. Good news for me...my side is going to win.

[yawnmaster]

93. Why would one be intentionally obtuse for other than kicks?

All generalities suck so I will say that there are cases where I don't believe in science for the sake of science.

As to the win...We'll see what that bomb does to the moon.

[uppityperson]

70. and abortion centers. do you think we should be doing them on the moon either?

wtf are you going on about? On second thought, please don't feel you must answer

[redqueen]

32. LOL

:loveya:

[yawnmaster]

43. .

and I thought it was over lol.

[myrna minx]

83. LOL -

You've been cracking me up for days now. :D

[yawnmaster]

96. I am well past talking about moon cracks...we'll see what happens tomorrow.

:)

[ArbustoBuster]

98. I'll play along...

Not even our most powerful telescopes could see the point of impact.

Even if you used the most powerful telescopes we have on the planet, you couldn't see the small crater this impact will make. Even if you could see an impact crater made by human actions (and that would require smashing a probe the size of the USS New Jersey into the Moon), that crater would be entirely indistinguishable from the thousands and thousands of other craters on the Moon which are considered to be part of its austere beauty.

In other words, I'm sorry to have to say that your comment is wrong both as science and as aesthetics.

(It was funny, though. Bravo.)

[yawnmaster]

102. I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about my kids, my grandkids, and beyond...

and the wonderful, everyday technology which science will give them to observe these marks on the moon.
Even from their back-yard!

[ArbustoBuster]

128. Your family will be eaten by terrorists long before it's a problem.

Or drowned by unchecked global climate change.

Or killed by the health insurance companies.

So, you see, the Republican Party has taken care of all your concerns about the future. There won't be one.

[Zix]

100. In many ways you are wonderful person.

But isn't it time for a corned beef sandwich?

[yawnmaster]

104. Just had a chicken sandwhich and now all re-energized! eom

[Zix]

114. I roasted a tasty chicken last night. Energy chickens!

Yum

[LSK]

108. are you for real???? how are you going to tell this from any other meteor potmark???

:wtf:

[yawnmaster]

120. How does one tell the difference between a tree killed by lightning fire or by arson??

The knowledge itself can make it a tragedy.

[LSK]

122. how much lettuce should I use in my salad tonite???

Care to address the topic at hand?

:shrug:

[yawnmaster]

126. Its in the analogy! or read below...

1. The pockmark hasn't been made yet so I'm not sure, on a scale of 1 to 10, how ugly it will be, so I'm not sure how to tell, in detail, the differences between them.

2. It doesn't matter if you can't tell (hence, the forest analogy), just the knowledge is bad enough, and I am very pro-knowledge.

[Regret My New Name]

132. <3

[drm604]

245. The moon is regularly bombarded by natural objects

as big or bigger than what we're hitting it with.

Your children will see it just as you see it (barring some major catastrophic event). The results of this experiment won't be any more visible from Earth than are the results of the constant natural meteoric bombardment.

[Marr]

339. ...

You won't be able to see the mark left by this probe with a good telescope, let alone your naked eye.

[rd_kent]

359. Uh, yeah. Nothing is changing the moon, nothing at all.

I want my children to see the earth exactly like I see it, so please dont build anything or dig any holes anymore. Dumbass.

[snooper2]

22. what it shows is people on all sides of the spectrum

were still 'Edumacated in the 'Merican pubic school system' :rofl:


And people say our kids have enough days in school/homework

[NeedleCast]

34. I know you're joking here but

I was edjucated in the 'Merican public school system" and I did alright. That's no excuse for the anti-knowledge crowd.

[Richardo]

39. My (teacher) brother points out the people that put men on the moon went to American public schools

Quite a change, huh?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

113. Wernher von Braun went to public school in America???

Wow! I had no idea!

[Richardo]

119. Yeah, he was the only person involved in the manned space program

My mistake.

[Posteritatis]

172. 400,000 people worked on the Apollo program. (nt)

[BlooInBloo]

66. No idiot-making machine is perfect. Not even our educational system.

[Javaman]

24. you forgot, "the secret sinister reason" behind the mission

which none of the nut jobs seem to at a loss to explain.

[Regret My New Name]

133. You mean the real mission, to destroy the Star Vistor's underground base?

[Javaman]

160. shhhhh, quiet you!

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

291. You mean this sinister reason?

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. Don't forget

5. Nuclear or Conventional?
6. Permanent menses
7. The tide will stop and the oceans will all stagnate

:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

28. Populism has always included some hard core fundie types who favor religion over science.

Willam Jennings Bryan, for example.

[A HERETIC I AM]

33. Gladly rec'd, because I am a paid operative. N/T

[NNN0LHI]

35. How do you know what side of the political spectrum these people come from?

We are on an anonymous political chat site.

Don

[redqueen]

37. "anti-knowledge people on both sides of the political spectrum are close enough to hold hands"

:thumbsup:

[get the red out]

40. What is this obsession with the moon?

Why are people so obsessed with what people think today that they post thread after thread after thread about the moon while they are getting angrier and angrier?

The sun will come up in some places tomorrow and in some places it won't (due to weather). But why all the worry about what someone else's opinion on DU might be? And to be honest, I am just seeing the same angry statements over and over in the comments on the moon threads, so why all the fuss?

[Echo In Light]

54. POLANSKI!!!

:bounce:

[TransitJohn]

72. Smoking! Obesity! PETA!!!!!

:hide:

[eggman67]

50. What about...

...all that surplus cheese that's gonna rain down on us!?!?!?! Think of what it'll do to the Wisconsin economy!!!111!!11

[timeforpeace]

Slow down, you lost me at it.

[MilesColtrane]

51. Scary....

[redqueen]

58. Hahahahahahahaha

:D

[Journeyman]

62. People on this board "seriously debated" whether BushCo caused the 2004 tsunami. . .

I ceased giving credibility to much of what is said here at that time. You should too.

[thelordofhell]

64. Whole Bunch Of Lunatics On This Board!!

:spray:

[winyanstaz]

67. You forgot to add what a mess it will make...

along with what a waste of money this is at time America is hurting.

[comrade snarky]

76. It's gonna get dust all over that nice clean moon.

How much is it gonna cost to clean that up?

[AsahinaKimi]

175. suck... suck...suck... suck !!!

I loved that scene from Space balls!

[comrade snarky]

187. I knew it!

I'm surrounded by Assholes!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

190. ROFLOL!

[Odin2005]

69. The Right has the Fundies. We have the New Age crackpots. Both are stupid.

I could not care less about primitive superstitions dressed up in New Age BS.

There are also, the Anti-Vaxers, the Alternative "Medicine" BS, Deepak Chopra's quantum quackery, etc.

[Nye Bevan]

73. Well I think it's shocking.

Just because the Large Hadron Collider did not destroy the universe when they turned it on a few months back, NASA gets all cocky and thinks it's OK to nuke the moon. These people should stick to safer scientific experiments, like mixing baking soda with vinegar.

[mamaleah]

74. I am sorry but can you point to where it says NASA is going to NUKE the moon?

Or are you just making shit up?

[Nye Bevan]

79. I saw it somewhere on the internet

If you Google "Nasa is going to nuke the moon" (with the quotes) you get 5 results.

However, if you Google "Nasa is not going to nuke the moon" you get *no* results.

Point proven, methinks.

[mamaleah]

86. No, wackadoodle, it is not.

They are letting an object of substantial mass crash into the moon.

But continue on with your conspiracy theories. Is that Y2K disaster pack feeding you still?

[superduperfarleft]

91. You don't read sarcasm well, do you? n/t

[mamaleah]

117. If you look at the original moon thread, that type of response to the NASA experiment was sadly

not sarcasm.

That 800 reply thread is full of win.

[OnTheOtherHand]

99. check your snark detector n/t

[Journeyman]

103. Whew -- if his was a razor sharp wit, you've have a buzz cut today. . .

fortunately, his sarcasm went right over your head. . .

[mamaleah]

116. Sorry...it's getting harder to tell the idiots from the sarcastic...

They make the same arguments about nuking the moon.

[Dr.Phool]

87. They're just going to hit the surface with something hard.

Like Orly Taitz head.

[Ignis]

111. Well played, sir.

:spray:

[SallyMander]

78. K&R!!!! (from a scientist)

:toast:

[Nye Bevan]

84. Yeah, but you scientists *would* be in favor of nuking the moon

with your white coats, crazy hair, wild-eyed schemes and Large Hadron Colliders with which you recklessly risk creating a black hole and destroying the very fabric of our universe.

[SallyMander]

89. LOL!

I am just a lowly biologist... no universe-rending going on here. I do have kind of crazy hair though... :think:

[Regret My New Name]

136. Try somes DesignLine Stix Wax...

It's does wonders for crazy hair. You apply it like deodorant, but on your head. Not only does work great, it's fun to apply too.

[Regret My New Name]

135. Ohh looky here, another one of the scientist class chimes in to further the science agenda.

You and your education hold no credibility with me!

[Seldona]

81. K&R

Glad I missed them all. I can only imagine.

[AngryAmish]

85. The moon threads have taught us that there many, many stupid DUers

These are people one would not even trust to clean a shower correctly.

[ashling]

95. Most of the threads I have seen like that

were tongue in cheek

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. It puts the anti-Obama threads in perspective.

When Obama's working on Afghanistan, they complain he's not working on health care.

When he's working on health care, the same people complain he's not working on the economy.

When he's working on the economy, they complain he's not working on Afghanistan.

So when I see threads on DU complaining about how Obama has to many undemocratic Czars, or how the teabaggers are misunderstood but good people, or how the greek columns at the convention are going to doom us all, or how Obama is to blame for gay teenagers committing suicide, and I wonder how people could be so fucking stupid... I remember oh yeah! These dumb fuckers think the moon landing was a hoax.

[sweetloukillbot]

115. +1

[BlooInBloo]

196. If you're going to be serious, and not just have fun with this thread, then sure. Killjoy.

[spoony]

225. Horrible logic, there.

I wonder how people can be so fucking stupid as to take people they don't agree with on wildly unrelated subjects and lump them into a single simplistic caricature with built-in strawmen.

[juno jones]

118. Yes, we've done such a good job of stewardship of this planet...

That we fucking need the exploitation and destruction on other planets and satellites untouched thus far by human hubris and greed to continue to fulfill ourselves with the knowledge that we are big and important.

Go ahead, cheer. That damn moon belongs to all of us, and none of us. If there is water on that sphere and we can harvest it, we will pay for it somehow. I would rather us spend time committing superhuman acts here on this planet for the good of all, but we know THAT'll never happen.

[Odin2005]

223. You sick misanthropy is noted.

:eyes:

[juno jones]

331. It's not misanthropy

We need to grow up here first.

As I explained to my kid, we tend to arrive in 'virgin' territory in a spirit of conquest and exploitation. Water or no, we've gotta figure out protection of astronauts from cosmic radiation before we go anywhere, and if big mining or big water wind up on the moon, I know damn well under unrestrained capitalism most humans will see no benefit whatsoever, and possibly more conflict for control of those resources. We need to get back to 'coming in peace', like that quaint bit of space junk left by apollo 11 states.

I said nothing bad about humankind, in fact I think we're a pretty nifty species once we get our act together. I think it's funny that I've gotten slammed twice in this thread for simply stating that humans need to proceed with more wisdom.

PS Thanks for calling me sick. I agree with you 9 times out of ten and actually think you're pretty cool. We've even exchanged words before in a friendly manner. I have no idea what left field that shit came from.

[Odin2005]

335. Well my attitude is that of Carl Sagan's

"We embarked on our cosmic voyage with a question first framed in the childhood of our species and in each generation asked anew with undiminished wonder: What are the stars? Exploration is in our nature. We began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still. We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars."

People wander, explore, find new lands to settle, no matter what the danger. That is the nature of humanity from the beginning of our species. People climb Everest "because it is there".

[billh58]

368. Hear, hear!

I was looking for that quote by Sagan, and thanks for bringing some sense of reality back to this thread. Unless we manage to blow ourselves to bits first, future generations of further evolved humans WILL travel to other worlds, and possibly colonize them.

[juno jones]

400. I believe in exploration.

And Carl Sagan. I grew up watching his stuff. One of my parent's gifts to me.

I guess I'm just seeiing this thru a different lens than you. I Maybe I've missed a generation of mobile lunar landers in the mold of the missions on mars (which are fascinating), but I don't recall gentler methods used to check out the moon before blowing up a chunk. And maybe it's just because I'm a little sensitized to it my spidey senses tingle a bit when they start talking water.

Exploration is fine, I fear exploitation. The DNA code was such an innocent and wonderful thing to map until it got twisted to admit things like crops that cannot be reseeded and patents on plants and animals that are held by companies and not the countries or cultures of origin. Ideally, these things, like the moon are rightfully the property of all and I hestiate to blindly cheer on what might have undesirable consequences in the future.

I want us to grow and evolve; If I were said to have a religious credo, that would be it. But I also fervently wish that the humans in charge of things who distribute the money to get things done scientifically weren't so venal and selfish at times. Pragmatism is what it is, and I have no say, just opinion.

I don't necessarily agree with this experiment, and I feel I have valid cause to put on my Cassandra get-up and play devil's advocate. That said, I will be fascinated by the results of it nonetheless. :)

[defendandprotect]

405. Exploration? You mean genocide and conquest . . . murder . . .

Honest exploration does no require destruction of nations and their people.

I presume you think we're 'EXPLORING' in Afghanistan and Iraq???

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

404. Yes, you're right, we should really have more respect for those who ...

committed genocide against the Native American in stealing their land!!!

And greed and lack of foresight which has polluted this continent -- it's water, soil,

oceans -- and given us Global Warming and the Ozone holes!!!

Maybe you also missed the fact that in the 1960's we exploded atomic weapons in outer

space trying to knock out the Van Allen Radiation Belts!!!

If that's what you respect, I can understand why you're not quite able to understand

the challenges we are making to this inane project -- all $79 million of it!!



/b]misanthropy: hatred, dislike, or distrust of humankind.[

[NeedleCast]

272. If you feel so strongly that humans are a plague

why don't you be the first step in the solution by removing yourself?

That's the problem with all you anti-people types. You never put your money where your mouth is.

[juno jones]

329. I do not think we are a plague

We simply need to grow up before we go messing about on other planets (and satellites).

The law of unintended consequences still exists elsewhere. If we can't behave here, are we going to carry the same ravenous appetite to the stars? I simply think we need to become responsible humans first.

[billh58]

369. Evolution is

still a work in progress, and very possibly the science required for space exploration will play a large part in that process.

[juno jones]

403. I agree.

I have no problem with space exploration per se. This just seems a little clumsy, like swatting flies with a baseball bat.

Just because I am no fan of this experiment doesn't make me a hater of humans, although I gripe about them occasionally in the vein of Voltaire and Twain. :)

If you desire, reply 400 has more commentary on my perspective. Therein I admit my love for Carl Sagan. :)

[billh58]

408. And I am

a big fan of Mark Twain, as well as Carl Sagan. I understand the frustration with the clumsiness of Man's approach to things we do not fully understand, yet. It seems like our genetic approach to exploration is the "sticking your finger in fire" method of determining whether the damned thing is hot, or not.

My previous reference to the continuing process of evolution, was to point that out: we seem to evolve more through our mistakes, than by anything that we manage to eventually get right. Reminds me of an old adage I once heard: "Good experience is obtained mainly through having had many bad experiences."

:toast:

[defendandprotect]

406. Good ole right wing retort -- try a personal attack . . .

:blush:

[winyanstaz]

506. I agree with your post.

[Warren Stupidity]

123. Heck we used to go bombing around mooning when I was a teenage jerk

Now that I am a 50-something jerk I no longer do such things.

[damntexdem]

127. OK, just so long as they don't use stem cells to bomb the moon.

But shouldn't we be concerned that the bombing will leave a crater on the perfect surface of the moon?

;-)

[JVS]

129. Good thing the anti-science crowd is so split on dogma, or they'd be a threat

[defendandprotect]

407. Science doesn't require violence and destruction . . .

so you might rethink who exactly is on the side of science and who's on the

side of violence and exploitation . . .

or not --

:evilgrin:

[gkhouston]

130. I thought it revealed our poorly concealed prejudices. Far too many of us

indulge in the narrow-minded belief that we should only bomb our own planet.

[ladywnch]

134. alright, I'm almost afraid to make this post given the damnation in OP, but

what exactly is this 'blowing up/bombing the moon' all about?

the first I've seen/heard about this was earlier on DU and thought it was some of those gag posts ie: Glenn Beck hasn't denied raping and murdering a young woman, Rush hasn't denied being a pedophile....etc.

is there a link I can go to? What is this all about?

[Regret My New Name]

137. They're just crashing a probe of sorts into the moon and studying the cheese it kicks up.

Or something along those lines. I'm sure it's more awesome than that, but ehnn.

Apparently the goal to to find evidence that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young woman, and water on the moon.

[Posteritatis]

138. Short version

NASA's gonna crash an empty rocket stage into a part of the moon where they suspect there's water and possibly other interesting things. It'll kick up a few hundred tonnes of dust, which they'll be able to analyze from earth-based telescopes and see what the local neighborhood's composed of. It's the same thing as dropping a marble into a sandbox, only the marble's rather large and the sandbox vastly so. The whole event will only be visible from the earth's surface via telescope, because even a blast a few hundred feet wide is too small to notice otherwise at that distance.

The media's sensationalizing it as "NASA's going to bomb the moon." A whole lot of people here - and elsewhere - refused to get past those really badly-written articles, or in some cases just the headlines, and started going off on a tear about using military ordnance, nuclear weapons, and so on. SOme people are getting even more hysterical and sincerely worrying about knocking the moon out of its orbit, destroying it altogether, affecting the tides on the Earth's surface, and so on. It's these guys, who are portraying a truly staggering, powerfully maintained ignorance of a whole lot of things just to hold those opinions in the first place, never mind defend them, that are the source of most of the brouhaha since yesterday.

Here is the official Web page for the mission: http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/

[ladywnch]

141. oh............. well I can certainly see what all the chicken little stuff is all about now.

thanks.

[omega minimo]

150. Are you stating

that you have actually seen these comments this week on DU yourself?

"SOme people are getting even more hysterical and sincerely worrying about knocking the moon out of its orbit, destroying it altogether, affecting the tides on the Earth's surface, and so on."

[Posteritatis]

161. They all appeared in that 700+-comment wankfest, yes. (nt)

[omega minimo]

166. Did you read them yourself

or believe someone who said someone said.......................

[Posteritatis]

168. Much as I appreciate your implication, yes, I read them myself. Cope. (nt)

[Codeine]

163. All of those comments have appeared

in the last two days on several threads, most of which you've been involved with.

[Marr]

340. They were all in the larger thread. You responded in most of those sub-threads, IIRC.

And yes, I read them myself.

[OneGrassRoot]

139. I know what perusing GD just now has shown me....

Over the years I've witnessed more thoughtfulness and genuine compassion from those being made fun of than I can begin to tell you.

NeedleCast, your OP was respectful and certainly not of the general tone the many other threads here have taken on. There is a viciousness that seems to have taken hold in the sheer volume of attacks, which says much more about those people than the ones they're mocking, IMHO. A thread or two with everyone piling on, making their jokes, would be all in good fun. For GD to be taken over by these threads is...interesting.

I'm not a scientist, but is it not true that things considered scientific fact a few decades ago have since been disproven?

I'd say the thing that differentiates the "woo-woo" crowd from both the science crowd and fundies is that, in general, they tend to have an open mind. And they're tolerant of others' views; if there's no middle ground, they just stay away. To each his/her own. I shouldn't say "they" -- I include myself in what would be considered the "woo-woo" crowd.

BTW, there are quite a few people with a scientific background who embrace some of the woo-woo. One person's woo-woo is another's truth, and we all learn something new every day. We have the potential to, at least.

I suppose it's similar to trashing a Dem who isn't a purist on all issues to the degree we want, so they are trashed as useless and a traitor. It's the same with scientists who, in spite of (or because of?) their education and experience, they open to other theories, including the metaphysical. The same people mocking with such vehemence other DUers would also mock fellow scientists who having a differing opinion or viewpoint.

There are many things that could be ridiculed about any and every belief system and most theories. But why do it with such petty meanness?

I've learned a lot of things today in reading these posts that educated me as to what is supposedly to occur tomorrow, and I'm grateful to have been enlightened.

I suppose the disgust and anger comes from your fear that those who question science are potentially going to hinder our intellectual progress in some way? I could understand if that's the case. I have that same fear/anger when it comes to the right wingers' belief systems affecting legislation and thus affecting me and my loved ones.

That said, attacking and mocking won't address that concern. Just as I stay away from freepers because it's useless and a waste of energy, perhaps these discussions and attacks are a waste of energy all the way around on GD.

Or, maybe it was simply a really, really slow news day.

:shrug:

Regardless, we all really need to get our shit together and quit attacking one another over every single disagreement, because we have plenty of issues affecting ALL of us right NOW here on Earth. ;)

[omega minimo]

148. very well put. great post.

"The same people mocking with such vehemence other DUers would also mock fellow scientists who having a differing opinion or viewpoint."

It seems that attacking others may provide cover for those who don't want to stick their scientific neck out to be gnawed by all the participating piranhas.

Much easier "to tell people to shut the fuck up about it and listen to the people who know more about the topic than (you) do." Rather than risk a bigger science fish coming along and telling them "to shut the fuck up about it and listen to the people who know more about the topic than (you) do."

Is that how science is taught now? Authoritarian bullies begetting more authoritarian bullies? That's more like a cult of evangelicals that those tolerant "woos" they love to kick around. :hi:

[billh58]

373. While most

of the responses to the ill-informed have been civil, absolutely NONE of your responses to those that you define as "haters" have been. How would you explain that to those whom you accuse of being condescending and mean-spirited?

Another poster (which you agreed with) called for civility and tolerance, but your attacks do nothing but further the divide. Got mirror...?

[AngryAmish]

154. But why do it with such petty meanness?

for the lolz.

[omega minimo]

156. It makes smart people

seem stupid.

[AngryAmish]

157. 1st rule of the internet is?

[BlooInBloo]

198. Excellent intro to the Open-mindedness video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

[OneGrassRoot]

256. Actually, I'm not saying that at all

I watched the first few seconds, with the "believer" berating the other to "be more open-minded!"

I'm not saying that at all. Think and believe what you will.

I'm simply responding to the attacks on those who don't navigate this human experience on strictly an intellectual basis.

I rarely see a "woo-woo'er" try to shove any beliefs down anyone's throat and rarely would we attack unless attacked.

Can't say that for the other side of the aisle, including freepers.

I do, however, understand the concern that what many refer to as pseudo-science and the like will threaten legitimate progress by we humans in some way by influencing legislation, etc.

When it comes to respect in general, the "woo-woo" crowd has everyone beat. Evidently respect is greatly overrated in all circles these days.

Good luck with the entertainment factor created for some here by attacking, mocking and belittling others. If it makes you feel better about life, so be it.

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

140. I suggested this in another thread: "Foundations of Astrophysics"

by Barbara Ryden and Bradley M. Peterson.

I might help those who are struggling to get up to speed. :shrug:

http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Astrophysics-Barbara-Ryden/dp/0321595580

[Regret My New Name]

152. That's a spendy book...

Do they have a For Dummies one in the $25-35 price range?

[Swamp Rat]

162. Here ya go: "Astronomy For Dummies" - $13.59 new; $4.87 used

http://www.amazon.com/Astronomy-Dummies-Math-Science/dp/0764584650/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255051397&sr=1-3

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516EH57YWAL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

or

"The Complete Idiot's Guide to Astronomy" - $14.25 new

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Astronomy-4th/dp/1592577199/ref=pd_sim_b_1



or

You can get the DVD collection: "The Universe" Seasons 1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Complete-Season-Three/dp/B001L0KHA6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1255049081&sr=1-3

[Posteritatis]

174. If one can swallow enough pride to buy the titles, they're generally worth it

The ____ For Dummies or Complete Idiot's Guide To ____ books are generally very, very good blank-slate-level introductions to whatever it is they're discussing, and usually have a decent pile of "after this you can go look here and here" sorts of followup references.

[Swamp Rat]

180. Though I have a lot of VERY EXPENSIVE textbooks, I also have a couple Dummie books.

At least they are BOOKS, :D and are often decent guides to get going (as you said).

I bought two engineering textbooks this semester for under $35.00 each (used), VERY low compared to the normal prices for these books. My classmates spent 3x as much or more because they waited too long.

[Regret My New Name]

197. Some of the For Dummies books are good.

I had some really horrible books in that series, but a few really good ones. I suppose that's the case with anything though. They can't all be winners.

[Regret My New Name]

195. Hey! Who are you calling an idiot and dummy?

[Swamp Rat]

205. Did you not ask for a Dummy book?

:shrug: I think they are pretty good and have a couple myself. ;)



:D

[Regret My New Name]

233. lol... nice

[Warren DeMontague]

231. "Astronomy for Dummies"! Shit, I LOVE old Pink Floyd!!!

Oh, sorry, never mind.

[Swamp Rat]

234. Ummagumma, dude!

Astronomy Domine

Lime and limpid green, a second scene
A fight between the blue you once knew.
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground.
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania.
Neptune, Titan, Stars can frighten.

Blinding signs flap,
Flicker, flicker, flicker blam. Pow, pow.
Stairway scare Dan dare who's there?

Lime and limpid green, the sounds surrounds
The icy waters under
Lime and limpid green, the sounds surrounds
The icy waters underground.

Syd Barrett

[SidDithers]

266. Or, take MIT's Intro to Astronomy course for free...

through OpenCourseWare

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-282JSpring-2006/CourseHome/index.htm

Sid

[omega minimo]

147. If these moon bombing threads have shown us anything

it's the self righteous, venal attitudes of authoritarians who feel justified in coming to DU -- despite all the Rules and the basic one of respect -- to tell people "to shut the fuck up about it and listen to the people who know more about the topic than (you) do." Tthe usual suspects, who appear to have a hobby of looking for DUers to bait, antagonise and insult, who play progressive and perpetuate authoritarianism, who rely on hearsay and mob rules and "cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else."

Your basing your divisive OP diatribe on THIS? :wow: :

"In the last 24 hours I've seen DU'ers claim we should stop this experiment because

"1. Its disrespectful to lunar religions
2. Could crack the moon
3. Could knock the moon off it's orbit
4. Its really just a warmongering, saber rattling event aimed at scaring (insert axis of evil country here)"

:wtf: You can't be serious because at least two of those can't be serious and the first one is misstated (did anyone actually say the experiment should be stopped or simply TRY TO point out the historic and sacred nature of the moon?).

Science cannot possibly be as shortsighted and vindictive as it is presented in these mob mentality threads. If it were, science -- and we -- would not survive.

Authoritarian groupthink and strongarming is not progressive or democratic. Demanding other DUers STFU is not DU's standard.



"For just as we write in good faith what happens in our own time, and so to speak paint the state of our affairs, so that we put it on view to those who come after, and their successors, they also have done the same thing who were before us, from which it comes about by the common association of men that by combined endeavors our life becomes as it were more prolonged, and fuller, and we are able to pronounce on the state of things as if we had been present at them all."

Niccolo Cabeo, Italian Astronomer (1586-1650)

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

155. You're wrong

and just proved the truth of my statement.

[NeedleCast]

158. OM, there is zero point to having a conversation with you

I really think you are insane. Sorry.

Even if you're not, you're so lost in your world of woo-woo that none of this matters. You don't understand the science behind it and your talk of "lets have an open discussion" always, ALWAYS devolves into "anyone who doesn't support your idiotic woo-woo theories is trying to silence you, or rape you, or otherwise harm you."

You're good for entertainment value only.

[omega minimo]

165. My post was very clear. You are dodging. Using insults to do it. Proving the point.

"ALWAYS devolves into "anyone who doesn't support your idiotic woo-woo theories is trying to silence you, or rape you, or otherwise harm you." "

That's such bullshit but I'm sure you'd like to think that to justify the chickenshit tactics.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

171. You still haven't addressed any of my points from that other thread.

For example, you still haven't proposed a better experiment for looking for water on the moon.

And you haven't explained your objections to my claim "science is about facts."

You really shouldn't accuse people of dodging when you won't participate in debate yourself.
Like this post. She will not respond to this post. Just react.

[SidDithers]

268. +1...nt

Sid

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

170. LOL

"'In the last 24 hours I've seen DU'ers claim we should stop this experiment because

"1. Its disrespectful to lunar religions
2. Could crack the moon
3. Could knock the moon off it's orbit
4. Its really just a warmongering, saber rattling event aimed at scaring (insert axis of evil country here)'

You can't be serious because at least two of those can't be serious and the first one is misstated (did anyone actually say the experiment should be stopped or simply TRY TO point out the historic and sacred nature of the moon?)."

Well, they're all very silly, which is why we're making fun of them. These people were also completely serious when they made these objections. Which is also the reason we're making fun of them.

There are also people who claim:

5. The probe will disrupt the lunar "ecosystems."
6. The experiment is racist because of white men.
7. The experiment is the moral equivalent of rape.
8. The moon is connected with menstruation, and disrupting one will disrupt the other.

Sure there are people wanting the mission to be stopped. There are people who claim it never should have been launched. There are people on this site praying for the mission's failure. There are people who say no experiments should be performed if the experiment is destructive in nature. There are people who claim we should not perform experiments because we don't know what will happen.

"Demanding other DUers STFU is not DU's standard."

If a person were to say "fuck you and your lies" would that meet your idea of DU standards in your opinion?

"Science cannot possibly be as shortsighted and vindictive as it is presented in these mob mentality threads."

Science is about facts. It's about right vs. wrong. People who claim the above are just plain wrong.

You can't have science if people try to stop experiments. You can't have science if people don't read past the headline.
Omega Minimo will refuse to engage in any of my points. Will resort to personal attacks. Accusations of bullying. Will claim I have proven her point.

[tammywammy]

179. ...

:thumbsup:

[Canuckistanian]

186. +100

Righteous.

[BlooInBloo]

199. "8. The moon is connected with menstruation, and disrupting one will disrupt the other."...

Dude - when I said that I was TOTALLY just kidding. I didn't think anyone would take me seriously.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

200. Oh, I wasn't talking about you.

NASA has actually been recieving phone calls from women who are worried LCROSS will upset their menstruation.

And there's a certain DUer who embarassed his/herself on the topic, but now pretends it didn't happen.

[BlooInBloo]

201. Oh, ok.

I don't mind being stupid - just as long as I'm not the stupidest. :)

[mamaleah]

176. Re: disrespectful to lunar religions

DU is pretty disrespectful in general to religion. Why should a lunar one be treated any different?

Christians, Jews, and Muslims (especially Christians) are fair game here. Why should pagans be a protected class?

[NeedleCast]

193. It shouldn't be. As an athiest, they're all equally silly to me.

Personally, I'm not usually openly disrespectful to the religious. You want to believe in adult Santa, go right ahead. The only time I have a problem with is when it infringes on my right to not believe, when it's used as a political tool, and when it impedes progress.

[winyanstaz]

453. Pagans are not a lunar religion...per say..they worship ONE God..

but one God they see as having many aspects...and the two main aspects are male and female/a balance of the Universal energies..as well as all the shades in between. Pagans don't believe God makes mistakes and so all sexes and shades in between are just as equal.
The moon is seen as the representative of the feminine principle and the sun as the representative of the masculine principle of God/Goddess.
They also recognize many MINOR Gods/Goddesses/aspects of the ONE.
They do NOT believe in an outside force/devil that makes people do bad things. Therefor..a real witch does NOT worship the Christians Anti-God Satan. However, Satanists who do worship Satan call themselves Witches because this is what they have been taught by Christian propaganda what they are. They are not. Witches HEAL and their only law is "Harm none" and that includes the self.
Rather Pagans believe we are responsible for our thoughts and actions and that we CHOSE. However they also believe that every spirit out there is not always benign or human in they way they think or behave.
They also believe we are loved unconditionally. The Earth itself is seen as a living and aware entity..our earthly Mother that gives us every and all material things we need. In other words..the male aspect supplies the force..the feminine gives it form.
The Christians believe in a Father, a Son and a Ghost...none of which are visible and in which the son will come back someday and punish all those that didn't believe and reward those that believe. The Father in the meantime..couldnt forgive the children of the earth he created until after they had murdered his only "begotten" (sexual abuse of a young lady..after all..who can say no to God?) son. In the meantime..he is off somewhere in heaven but spying on everyone down here. Hmmmmm that should make one stop and think a little bit..shouldnt it?

[AngryAmish]

489. I am so glad this thread is still around.

It reminds me why I'm at democraticunderground.com

[Generator]

151. Clearly we are in an alternate universe

Say MOON BOMB over and over. It's just ain't right.

[YoungAndOutraged]

159. Lot of folks going out of the way to call people names in regards to this issue.

...

[Warren DeMontague]

164. I Like The Moon.

It's not a spoon.

http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song

[bridgit]

167. Close enough to hold hands we refuse to

[NeedleCast]

169. Sockpuppet says what?

[bridgit]

194. Mmmmm dunno, maybe he'll stop beating his wife like he said he would, that seems like a good thing

You're actually being agreed with. There's too much contention here between people so close in their agendas they could hold hands if only they held them out

[ThoughtCriminal]

181. To the Moon ALICE! To the Moon!

I can't remember the exact number, but there are at least 36 man-made impact craters on the Lunar surface, include a few that are much larger than the upcoming crater:

http://thoughtcrimewave.blogspot.com/2009/08/looking-for-alice.html

[Lagomorph]

182. The Moon's proximity to Earth is a grave security issue...

We can only hope that bombing their precious water supplies will prevent the Moon Amazons from invading.

[suffragette]

189. Everyone knows the real question is

what does lunar cheese taste like?



Wallace and Gromit picnic on the moon.

[Forkboy]

192. We forgot the crackers!

[suffragette]

218. Hold tight, lad, and think of Lancashire hotpot.

Speaking of the crackers, for you: http://www.spike.com/video/wallace-gromit-grand/2681102

[Rex]

206. Wow, we live quick on the Internet. No sonny, sorry but you just had

to be there for the original 700 fest of goodness. Back in the days, day, well hours ago actually. It was amazing to behold.

Those were the day my fiends.

[NeedleCast]

294. Oh I was there in that thread, believe me

[shireen]

207. i warning you ... the moonlings are pissed.

They've been pissed since Apollo. I've held them back as long as i could but this could be the last straw.

So if the moon starts swinging around wildly in its orbit around Earth (our planet, btw) as the moonlings fire the super-thrusters on the dark side of the moon, back-and-forth, back-and-forth, and tidal forces slosh the oceans around like when you jump into an over-filled bathtub, well, you'll know why.

NASA has been warned. But will they listen?


(scottsaavedra.blogspot.com/2008/03/space-alien.html)

[onehandle]

208. The Watcher does not approve.

[Prophet 451]

215. The Watcher is nigh-omnipotent

Besides, if anything gets near him, Black Bolt is only a short walk away.

[Capt. America]

281. What about the Inhumans on the Blue Area of the Moon? Blackbolt will declare war on the US!

[L0oniX]

296. Neither does Landrew.

[Harry Monroe]

325. Is he Sen. Mary Landrieu's brother?

[slay]

209. But.. but.. what about the man in the moon? Does anyone think about him? Nooooo...

:rofl: :P

[JonQ]

212. Bingo

Abortions and stem cells vs frankenfoods and anti-vaccers (and apparently the moon as well).

Anti-science attitudes aren't a left/right thing. They're an idiot thing. Which knows no ideology.

[Prophet 451]

216. Bravo, sir!

While an amateur scientist at best, I have continually had the same conversation with regard to law. There is a certain faction of the general public which seems committed to the idea that their half-baked, ill-informed brainfarts are inherently superior to the considered opinions of those who have spent a lifetime studying the area.

Personally, I'm extremely excited. As a life-long sci-fi fan, proving the existence of water on the moon (and therefore, bringing the possibility of manned bases much closer) would make me feel like Jules Vern just released a new novel.

[Mind_your_head]

226. What happened on september 10, 2008?

:hide:

[NeedleCast]

277. The Earth was destroyed

If you'd stop clinging to your illusions that its still here, you'd have noticed and be on the ark ship with the rest of us.

See link in OP.

[Name removed]

230. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[winyanstaz]

232. Your ignorance is showing...for one thing...no one said anything about

"lunar religions". I myself don't know of any lunar based religions. It was Earth-based (meaning religions that believe in being in balance with the earth) religions that were being talked about.
They see the moon as a sacred SYMBOL of the divine feminine/
the Goddess/The Earth Mother...just as they see the sun as the sacred symbol of the divine masculine/the God/The Sky/father.
It is wrong to desecrate a sacred symbol of another religion even if you don't understand it.
Please go ahead and name one place we have ever invaded that we have not build military bases on while your at it too.
As to physics and metaphysics..do a little homework and you will find that advanced physics hold that beyond matter is energy, beyond energy is thought and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make the next connection...that beyond thought is the one doing the thinking...Spirit.
The Moon might not have broke or cracked or been thrown off orbit ( a little soon to tell all the consequences as of yet..if any)..but a hell of a lot of money was blown on this while Americans are losing their homes, their jobs, their families lives due to the health care and it was a total waste to throw that money away on this project while America is hurting.

[Warren DeMontague]

239. Symbols exist in one place, and one place only- the mind.

Don't confuse the menu with the meal.

You seem pretty certain that a "hell of a lot of money was blown on this"... how much, exactly? How much in comparison to, say, the Military Budget for last year? The Drug War or Prison budget for Last Year? The budget for "Abstinence Only" education for last year? Do you know?

Or is it only NASA that is on special watch for "wasting" money (for 'science', no less-- OMG WTF LOL!!!) while "America is hurting"?

As for the rest of the post: "a little soon to tell all the consequences as of yet..if any"

Pure, pure comedy gold. Keep 'em coming!

[winyanstaz]

310. excuse me..but arent ALL of those a waste of money ...

and just because one wastes more than another..should it not all be stopped?
As to your arguement that symbols only exist in the mind..then you shouldnt mind if people desicrate the washington monument or the statue of liberty etc...
There is nothing wrong with science.
There is something wrong with blowing things up with so little regard.

[Warren DeMontague]

311. No, actually, money for science, exploration, and understanding our Universe is NOT a waste.

"blowing things up with so little regard"- regard for what? The people who can't be bothered to learn about what this mission actually is? Regard for people who think their religion means the moon belongs to THEM?

As I said elsewhere- people who are so distrustful of science and modern technology that they have a knee-jerk reaction of outrage at this... don't even need to know this took place. Without television, newspapers, or the internet, they would have trouble even hearing about it. Without a high-powered telescope- another relatively modern invention- they wouldn't SEE it. The moon to the naked eye is no different today than it was yesterday.

You don't even understand what it is you're trying to 'stop', (IT ALREADY HAPPENED! OH NOES!) but I'm sure that won't stop you.

[winyanstaz]

318. Don't be silly..I know it happened...and I know what I am not happy about...

You however are the one having a problem understanding that not everyone walks in a lock-step and might have a different view. You are the one with the problem that not everyone thinks we need to blow things up to study them.
And speaking of people thinking the moon belongs to only them...it is people like YOU that are shooting holes in the moon..not us.
And you don't understand that just because someone says its for science..doesnt make it right.
You are assuming that we are against science..and that is not the case. We are against spoiling something that belongs to EVERYONE without any public input and without regard to other religion and races feelings on the matter. The moon does NOT belong to only you and NASA.

[billh58]

352. As you pointed

out regarding a few other posters on this thread, reason and logic will never overcome fear and superstition for the gullible among us. Oh look! A shiny object! Got to go now...;-)

[AngryAmish]

250. advanced physics hold that beyond matter is energy, beyond energy is thought

and beyond thought is reallly good pot

[Altoid_Cyclist]

253. For the record, I'm not against science or people pushing the technical envelope.

Thank you for your post. I agree with you about the financial aspect of this subject.

The only reason that my wife and I are both still alive is because of medical breakthroughs by pioneers in the cardiac care field. We have a very personal relationship with what research and innovation can do to help people.

The only problem that I have with this mission is that with our personal financial situation and the dire straits that a lot of other people are facing, I just wish that we could use the 79 million dollars to help people on this planet.

I'm not singling out NASA, I've been saying the same things about the MIC and this country's misplaced priorities when it comes to decisions on who and what receives funding from the government.

I realize that I stand a chance of being labeled as stupid or misinformed for speaking out against not using the money on this planet, but for what it's worth, I'm neither one of those.

I just have a lot more personal insight on the financial perils facing so many Americans.

[NeedleCast]

271. Actually a few people did

have things to say about religious disrespect.

The issue here is that almost everyone finds something sacred. If we operate under the principal of not touching anything that someone finds sacred we put almost everything off limits. As an athiest, I don't consider your symbol of the divine feminine (oh it sounds so Divinci Code...the cup and the sword, blah blah) to be so untouchable that we cant use it to further man-kind. Your woo-woo religion can continue to provide human aspects to inanimate objects all you want, just don't expect that to stop progress.

WTF does dropping a metal can on the moon have to do with invasion? Just more of your silly hypotheticals of things that "could" happen. Monkeys may fly out my butt today but I'm going to go on operating under the assumption that it's not going to happen.

Your understanding of physics is poor at best. No time to go into why. Take a freshman level college physics class and ask the professor if he attributes the theory of gravity to spiritual energy. It'll be entertaining...for him or her.

If you had any understanding of physics and the masses involved in this experiment you'd understand that there was no chance of a crach or an orbital shift and that it is not too soon to tell all the consequences (other than those of a scientific nature).

And finally, your ridiculous hand-wrining over the money spent. So what do we do? Not fund any science research until we've gotten 100% of humanitarian situations on earth fixed? Never going to happen. If not for people like the ones at NASA, we'd still be crawling into the caves to sleep at night. I for one, don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming from my mud hut.

[Marr]

346. Physics does not say anything like, "beyond matter is energy, and

beyond energy is thought". It just doesn't.

[winyanstaz]

409. Do some research on quantum physics and then get back to us.

[Warren DeMontague]

410. You mean real quantum physics? Or Ramtha the 6000 yr. old Spirit Guide, "What the bleep do we know"

"The Secret", cheesy horrible Oprah misappropriations of quantum theory?

You want to talk about actual quantum physics, please.. go ahead.

[Marr]

411. Tell you what-- since you're making the claim, why don't you

point me at an equation or a theory or a paper or... anything. Give me something that backs up what you're saying.

And if I may say this without sounding too snarky; real physics never sounds like a fortune cookie.

[winyanstaz]

454. I have already posted a long list of books by quantum physics scientists

in another posting on this thread.
My favorite book that explains the dimensions is not done by a scientist however but by a Yoga master who died about a hundred years ago. His book is available on line through the yoga publishing society..and it is called "14 lessons in Yoga Philosophy" by Yoga Ramacharaks.
I was very excited when I read his book since I have been able to get out of body since I was a small child and I recognized what he was talking about having seen and been there myself.
If you read his book and then study about quantum physics you will be able to see they are talking about the same things.
If you are really interested in learning to see energy fields, you may write me in the du forum..Astrology, Spiritualy and Alternative healing group. You can post a private message to me there as well if you wish.
I can show you the first four layers of the human aura as well as help you feel and see your own energy field or someone else's. There are seven layers in all but I cannot show them all to you..you must earn the last three for yourself as you will need to be vibrating at a high spiritual rate to see them and I cannot walk the path for you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

459. You haven't posted anything to support your claim.

"books" by "quantum scientists" is meaningless.

If a Nobel prize winning Chemist publishes a book about Santa Claus, that does not mean there really is a Santa Claus.

What matters is evidence and peer-reviewed publications.

"My favorite book that explains the dimensions is not done by a scientist however but by a Yoga master who died about a hundred years ago. His book is available on line through the yoga publishing society..and it is called "14 lessons in Yoga Philosophy" by Yoga Ramacharaks."

None of which has anything to do with physics, quantum or otherwise.

"If you read his book and then study about quantum physics you will be able to see they are talking about the same things."

Ah, see, but I have studied quantum physics. Real quantum physics, not yoga. And I can plainly say that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to quantum physics.

[AngryAmish]

493. This is fantastic.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

501. You know the best part?

The Yogi she cites is a pseudonym of some white 19th century "mentalist" who basically just made all his shit up on the spot.

[JVS]

517. And here we are over a century later and they keep up the tradition of making up all kinds of shit.

[JVS]

516. My Physics class at Maharishi University says otherwise

http://www.mum.edu/

[beam me up scottie]

520. Jesus Christ, I thought you were kidding.

One of the many Graduate and Undergraduate degrees:

B.A. in Maharishi Vedic Science

From the world’s most ancient continuous tradition of knowledge, the Vedic tradition of India, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has formulated the 40 aspects of Veda and Vedic Literature into a complete science and technology of consciousness.

Veda means knowledge. Maharishi Vedic Science offers
the complete knowledge of Natural Law, the intelligence that administers the universe, and
applications of this complete knowledge in education, health, management, economics, political science, agriculture, defense, and architecture and city planning.

You will explore the scientific discovery that human physiology is essentially consciousness — the expression of the fundamental impulses of Natural Law expressed in the Vedic sounds, the same laws that administer the whole universe. And you will learn to read Veda and Vedic Literature in Sanskrit, the language of Nature itself. Come and enjoy the bliss and growth of consciousness that this produces.

[Baikonour]

236. From my understanding, stem cell research will potentially cure countless diseases...

What immediate global problems is shooting a rocket at the moon going to solve?

Just curious.

I find it pretty disheartening that people around here can't be critical of NASA's spending without getting their head chopped off.

[Warren DeMontague]

238. Right, because we should never do ANYTHING scientific if it won't solve a "immediate global problem"

Unless you count a lack of knowledge about the larger Universe we live in as an "immediate global problem"... and I, for one, do.

And let's cut the noise about people 'critical of NASA's spending' getting their proverbial head chopped off. The posts which garnered the largest amounts of ridicule were not rational critiques of NASA's budget (which, as has been pointed out, is a drop in the bucket compared to fiscal inanities like the Military or Prison Industrial Complexes) --- the posts which really caused the shit to fly had to do with the LCROSS probe carrying nuclear weapons, "angering the living Universe", "affecting tides", "causing the oceans to freeze up", knocking the moon out of orbit, etc. etc.

I mean, c'mon.

I think it's clear that there is a segment here that doesn't understand science, doesn't want to understand science, and blindly fears what it doesn't, won't, or can't understand.

[Marr]

414. Scientific curiosity.

I am amazed that so many people can casually dismiss the notion of learning more about the universe and our place in it. That's one of the most-- if not the most-- noble things we can do.

[harmonicon]

240. almost +1

Including "at the end of the day" in your post makes it a wash - I'm sorry. Those are the rules.

[Greyhound]

241. Personally I thing the LHC did create a singularity that has sucked our entire existence

into oblivion.

We just realize it because we are eternally falling toward an event horizon...
:woohoo:

[LatteLibertine]

247. Well

if they do manage to colonize the moon I suppose that will be good so the ultra wealthy will have a place to go when they are done destroying the earth.

[lillypaddle]

248. Agree completely

K&R

[Bernardo de La Paz]

249. Anti-Knowledge = Pro-Ignorance

[rasputin1952]

251. I just watched the NASA feed...

pretty cool, but I knew the images would be hours in coming post impact. It's not like I thought I'd see anything from a destroyed impact device...:D

All things considered, it was kind of dull, but the images of the impact area were great, and I could make out little craters as the device moved in.

I figure 2-4 hours before decent images come out of NASA, and more time before other data is extracted.

Science is a process of essentially small, but often dramatic events, then a whole lot of analysis.

The moon is still up there, doing what the moon does, as most of us knew it would be. Tides will still flow, light will still be reflected back to earth, and lovers will still have something to gaze upon as they fall into each others embrace...:)

[Altoid_Cyclist]

255. That's assuming the lovers are in a car with a moon roof.

Although a convertible will suffice also.

[rasputin1952]

257. When I was young...

I recall a beach on Long Island...small fire, feeling good after a clambake w/my 1st girlfriend and love of my life. Warm breeze, in depth conversation, and the incredible warmth of not just her body, but her mind.

The last thing I wanted was a car...I didn't ever want to leave that moment in time; not by walking, driving...but I was soaring...:D

[Altoid_Cyclist]

259. I know what you mean.

The very first date that I had with my wife ended at her parents house.
It was a crystal clear night and we decided to go for a walk down the road that she lived on. The moon was so bright that it was like being embraced by the moon as we walked and talked.

I knew that it was a perfect match that night. However it still took me ten years to convince her that it was meant to be.

After 22 years of marriage, that walk still seems as though it was just last night.

[rasputin1952]

260. Speaking of such things...

My GF and I were walking on the West Side, along the Hudson...and another one of "those moments" happened.

"Walking in the Rain" was playing outside of a record store, and here we were, walking in the rain, huddled closely together in that "rain embrace", warmed by each other, comforted to know we were together, nothing else mattered, we looked at each other, just smiled and didn't say a word, there was no need...:D

on edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBcYdUlQpgA&feature=PlayList&p=B94A192CC5B9B100

[Altoid_Cyclist]

269. I just wish that my wife had said yes a lot sooner than she did.

Thanks to all of the begging and crawling that I did in those 10 years I only have about 5% of the meniscus left in my knees.

Of course, that's the reason that I give her.
It was probably more likely from the blown ACL and 5 knee operations, but when guilt might work, it's worth a shot.

Speaking of guilt, since I'm the unemployed one in the house I better get back to the laundry so that I can convince her that I'm not totally disposable. I'll have to remind her about the walk tonight.

:toast:

[Ian David]

252. Here's the latest footage of the moon explosion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAt60HrSkzI

[rasputin1952]

258. LOL...

the last minute ...:rofl:

[RedCloud]

254. Understand that we all deal with this whimsical event in different ways.

[rasputin1952]

261. I agree...

From the classic 1902 film:

[SidDithers]

262. It is with almost orgasmic joy that I rec this post...nt

Sid

[PATRICK]

265. I've posted

a radio message from the Grand Lunar voicing his(its) concerns via the long deceased Professor Cavor's radio bandwidth- with no interest whatsoever by ethereal moon struck philosophers.

Ignore it at your peril.

[Phoonzang]

273. Rec'd. I don't think it'll help though.

This moon hysteria shows liberals really aren't that much "smarter" than repugs when it comes to science. No, not even science...common sense.

[NeedleCast]

293. it wont

but I feel better and I'm glad this thread has gotten a mostly positive response. Restores a bit of my faith.

[Stephanie]

274. Just click on a thread about new sciencific studies re: obesity

If you want to see some closed minds.

[GoneOffShore]

276. Good Stuff -

I'm thinking of a comic strip - Science against teh stoopid

Facepalms daily.

[AllyCat]

278. I was at work way too late with no time to check on the news. Moon bombing?

What happened?

[NeedleCast]

292. Summary

Nasa launched a rocket with a spent fuel cannister on it. The cannister was detached from the rocket stage and impacted a crater in the polar region of the moon. NASA will analyze the data to determine the presence of water-ice near the lunar pole. Specifically we impaced a crater that stays in near total darkness where water-ice would be present if it is present.

Thanks to M$M the story was headlined as "NASA bombs the moon" despite the fact that no explosive was used. A handful of DU'ers got all bent out of shape because we made an extremely minor ding in the moon (not visible to naked eye, not even visible to most amature telescopes).

[AllyCat]

319. This is News? Good God what is happening...? Thanks for the explanation

Still don't think I understand why people are so nuts about this, but whatever.

[grantcart]

280. those threads were serious? I saw the headlines and just thought they

were all making jokes about it.

Sorry to hear about the whole Earth being destroyed thing. I still have fond memories of it.

[DWilliamsamh]

284. K&R for SCIENCE not willful ignoance

And the various malarkey fill bullshit these people spew. You are 100% right and 0% wrong: there is no difference between Luddites on teh left and right.

[slackmaster]

286. The Russians attacked the Moon about 50 years ago

Anyone who criticizes the recent US action is obviously a commie sympathizer.

[L0oniX]

287. Here's the REAL REASON they bombed the moon...

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

299. or just the moon a black eye!

[valerief]

305. I say for fun we should all moon the moon tonight. Nothing like letting the

moon people see just how many assholes there are down here.

[defendandprotect]

308. $79 million for this event makes sense to you -- ????

[Warren DeMontague]

312. Yes.

A bargain, in fact.

[defendandprotect]

313. You're getting a "bargain" for what?

[billh58]

316. The advancement

of human knowledge? If there is frozen water on the moon, then it would be possible to build permanent bases there for further exploration of space.

[defendandprotect]

327. If pigs could fly ..... ???

What "human knowledge" . . .
Tell me what you've gained from all of the money for the "Moon Landings" and
other space explorations?

In fact, the whole thing is so BORING simply because any information is kept hidden
intended for private use and private profit.

We haven't been back to the moon in more than 40+ years!!! Nor has anyone else gone -
at least that we know of because obviously many did die secretly trying to get to the
moon. How many of ours, we don't know.

So what are we going to do with this moon water ... ?
Jump from planet to planet destroying one after another?

This is all about one thing -- control of space and militarization of the skies.


Dr. Strangelove, anyone?

[billh58]

330. Who said anything

about personally "gaining" from the money spent on space exploration for you or me? Knowledge is knowledge, and is for all mankind. At the time, many people didn't see any advantage in that new-fangled machine invented by the Wright brothers. Further back, many people thought that Chris Columbus and his crew were wasting Queen Isabella's money. Even further back, I'm sure that many of his fellow tribesmen thought that the first hominid to head out of Africa in search of "what's out there," was stark, raving, batshit crazy.

"Obviously many did die secretly trying to get to the moon." ??? I can't even begin to address that bit of unfounded conspiracy theory thinking, but it does tell me a bit about your anti-science stance. And you're right, we haven't been back to the Moon -- we've been to Mars and beyond using the technology perfected by landing on the Moon. If it becomes feasible to establish a permanent base on the Moon, one day Mankind may begin to colonize other planets. Whether we "jump from planet to planet destroying one after another," is a possibility, but so is the peaceful proliferation of our species.

Or, we could just follow your lead, and accept the inevitable extinction of our species through willful ignorance and misplaced self-interest. I don't believe, however, that our DNA will allow a repeat of the Dark Ages at this stage of our development: for better, or worse, the Genie is out of the bottle.

[defendandprotect]

332. How long have you been living in this country? Knowledge is privatized . . .

Knowledge is power -- and that's EXACTLY while so much is kept secret, especially in
space exploration.

And, why would I be asking you "personally" -- I'm asking you what our population has
gained from the money poured into space exploration and Star Wars?

At the time, many people didn't see any advantage in that new-fangled machine invented by the Wright brothers.

Another thing that has to be awakened to is that these planes don't fly on solar power --
they fly on oil. We are also starting to notice that even pilots are being effected by radiation.
And while you're typing, remember that there is a plug at the end of almost everything we use!

And, Oh, yeah -- I'd really be rooting for Columbus!!! You've been watching too much of
his-story with music playing in the background.

Pointing out to you that the Russian Cosmonauts have told us that some died trying to get to the
moon because of the radiation -- and guessing that we probably did the same is "anti-science"?
And thanks for the reminder that this is "conspiracy-free America" -- !!!

"WE" have not been to Mars. Robots have been to Mars. And how has society benefited from that
knowledge? We have not been "back" to the Moon -- and neither has anyone else. We did, however,
in the 1960's explode nuclear weapons in outer space trying to destroy the Van Allen Radiation Belts.
Does that really suggest to you that we are a species ready to explore nature when most of what
we do is destroy it?

If it becomes feasible to establish a permanent base on the Moon, one day Mankind may begin to colonize other planets. Whether we "jump from planet to planet destroying one after another," is a possibility, but so is the peaceful proliferation of our species.

Humans are earthbound. The Mir Space Station is in near outer space and the men coming off of those
missions can barely walk and are taken off in wheel chairs. Shannon Lucid walked off.

Destruction of all we encounter -- and the continuing patriarchal war on nature -- is more than a possibility as we can see from their past and recent performances.

Or, we could just follow your lead, and accept the inevitable extinction of our species through willful ignorance and misplaced self-interest. I don't believe, however, that our DNA will allow a repeat of the Dark Ages at this stage of our development: for better, or worse, the Genie is out of the bottle.

My lead? How about paying some attention to Global Warming and get gasoline driven cars off the
roads? How about paying attention to the Ozone Hole? How about ripping up "Manifest Destiny" and
"Man's Dominion Over Nature" which are the religious licenses to exploit nature, natural resources,
animal life -- and even other human beings according to various myths of inferiority?

Global Warming isn't "willful ignorance"? Destruction of Nature isn't "willful ignorance"?
We've known about Global Warming since at least the late 1950's.
Further there is a 50 year delay in the effects you feel -- in other words, what you're
feeling now only represents our destructive activities up to 1959!!

We already had the Enlightenment -- patriarchy doesn't like it and they're making every effort to
take us backwards if you've noticed?

For more than 50,000 years violent men have ruled our societies and our planet.

As a woman from the Bikini Island said after we dropped NUCLEAR WEAPONS on her home ....

"Americans are really smart about really stupid things---"

Not to mention our brilliance in dropping Atomic Bombs on Japanese civilians -- !!!


You have to be able to distinguish progress from destruction . . .

[billh58]

334. Sigh...

Living in this country? Me? 68 years. My family? Over 150 years.

I have no desire to debate with someone whose mind is firmly fixed in conspiracy theory and fantasy. Have a good life, try to read more, and go in peace.

You may have the last word now, but you will be talking to shadows who pity your anger, and wish you well all the same.

[defendandprotect]

341. Forgot to mention this . . .

Mankind may begin to colonize other planets.

mind-boggling bit of arrogance and ignorance -- !!!


Wow!

[Odin2005]

336. WTF does sexism and the environment have to do with space colonization?

"Patriarchal war on nature"? Holy psychosis batman! :crazy: This is this, not something else, sexism is irrelevant to the colonization of space.

[defendandprotect]

342. Sexism is "irrelevant" to conquest . . . ????

What do you think "colonization" is except patriarchal violence?

Evidently, the "patriarchal war on nature" comes as a surprise to you -- !!!

Probably the violence of organized patriarchal religion also comes as a shock to you -- !!!

:eyes:

[Odin2005]

347. There aren't people on the moon and Mars.

Thus, no conquest.

WTF does sexism and religious BS have to do with this? You are making ridiculous connections, THIS IS THIS, NOT SOMETHING ELSE.

[defendandprotect]

399. "Manifest Destiny" has nothing to do with conquest? Papal Bulls . . . nothing to do with conquest?

Where are you learning history . . . ???

Colonization is domination -- exploitation -- think that over -- start with the Native American,

with Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Vietnam . . . on and on.

And Imperialism is THIS -- these wars? Not other wars? Not other conquests?

Space exploration has long been about militarization of the skies -- start with LBJ's speach in '57.

And Star Wars as well --



Anti-female teachings are simply one of the many patriarchal myths of "inferiority" . . .

One of the best definitions of feminism is -- "anti-domination of anyone by anyone else."

[architect359]

429. Wow... just wow. n/t

[defendandprotect]

433. And PS on that "there are no people on the moon" . . . I guess the world doesn't care . ..

if we declare the world our territory!!!

We'll annex it and no one will care--!!!????

And don't forget defending our new possession -- !!!

[Warren DeMontague]

344. I think the interesting story here is the peculiar overlap between some of DUs esteemed posters.

specifically, how the details of the 'holy psychosis', as you so aptly put it, seem oddly similar in certain "individuals". :freak:

Beyond that, I'm really becoming acutely aware that my life contains a finite allotment of time, so I'm increasingly unwilling to devote very much of it to arguing endlessly (and pointlessly) with this particularly noxious strain of baloney.

[Odin2005]

348. Seriously, this poster's "Patriarchal war on Nature" shtick is an insult to actual...

Women's rights issues.

Christ, people want to see spurious connections with their pet obsession where none exists. Like I always say, this is this, not something else!

[Warren DeMontague]

349. I think "shtick" is the right word to use.

Whatever is being sold here, I'm not buyin' it.

[defendandprotect]

402. The only "shtick" here . . .

is the OP itself and it's pretense to superior-minded science !!!



:eyes:



After we dropped Atomic weapons on the Bikini Islands . . .

"Americans are really smart about really stupid things."

How right that woman is, was and continues to be!

[Warren DeMontague]

420. Woof, Woof.

[defendandprotect]

434. Right, Warren . . . Atomic weapons are the way to go -- !!!

Good right wing no response response . . .

[Warren DeMontague]

437. Don't fret. The Star Folks Lunar Colony was saved.

http://www.drboylan.com/10.08.09jpesuccess.html

[defendandprotect]

440. Attempted insults aren't debate, Warren -- no matter how many times you try --

Grow up --

[Warren DeMontague]

449. You're not interested in debate.

You're only interested in wasting peoples' time.

Nice try.

[defendandprotect]

450. No -- that's your job --

and you're such a farce, you're now on "ignore" --

[Warren DeMontague]

451. Does that mean you still believe the moon landings were a hoax, or not?

I don't understand how they could be a hoax AND a patriarchal exercise in land-rape. :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

464. And then there's that...

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

401. Would you like to explain "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" . . .???

Perhaps you can make clear how they are not about patriarchal exploitation??

The OP is intended as an insult to those rightly questioning these inane projects --

$79 million -- especially at this time in our history. But it also puts on display

the denseness of the poster and those like the poster who are contributing their

"wisdom" to the thread . . .




:evilgrin:

[AngryAmish]

492. You are the best!

I love this shit.

[billh58]

350. Far-Lefties

are cute when they're angry, and this one appears to be angry ALL of the time...;-)

[Warren DeMontague]

363. I don't think left/right even enters into it.

Like, where would you put this guy on the political compass?

[billh58]

364. Point taken

...;-)

[defendandprotect]

435. We should all be happy about two wars based on lies?

And a military still based all over the world!

Militarization of the skies?

But "cute" little right wing no-response response -- !!

:evilgrin:

[dixiegrrrrl]

343. Good rant.

[Warren DeMontague]

345. It's the heavenly coffee.

[billh58]

351. +1

...;-)

[defendandprotect]

436. It's more of the right wing ...

no-debate debate --

Why not try some insults, Warren, they may work for you?

:blush:

[Warren DeMontague]

441. What "debate" are you trying to have, here?

You're not debating, you're just tossing words at the wall and seeing what sticks. You're trying to claim that the lunar LCROSS mission had something to do with patriarchy, manifest destiny, and atomic testing in the Pacific.

That's not "debate", that's incoherent rambling.

[defendandprotect]

444. Why don't you tell us about the benefits of $79 million on this venture . . . ???

Or maybe you want to start with the hundreds of billions spent on Star Wars?

Or maybe go back to LBJ's 1957 comments on the moon being the "highest hill"?

Maybe you want to pick up where another idiot left off in suggesting "there are no

people on the moon" -- i.e., where's the conquest?

Start somewhere and we'll see if you only have more insults to offer --

[Warren DeMontague]

447. The 'idiot' was right. There are no people on the moon.

"Star Folks" notwithstanding, of course.

The value of the $79 million on this mission? Finding ice on the moon, and beyond that doing chemical analysis of what is at the lunar poles, for one. Increased scientific understanding of the universe we live in.

A bargain.

[chknltl]

309. Saddam hid his WMDs on the moon

....and we Dems are just destroying the evidence. (attn freepers: It's true!!!)

[defendandprotect]

314. Love it -- !!!

:evilgrin:

[omega minimo]

317. Authoritarian divisive flamebait

[SemiCharmedQuark]

322. If someone says "I believe that 2+2 is 22" and someone else says:

"You're an idiot. First grade math tells us that is 4" Would you consider that second person to be authoritarian?

[omega minimo]

324. "You're an idiot"

[SemiCharmedQuark]

326. I didn't ask if it was "rude". I asked if it was "authoritarian".

By your definition.

[bridgit]

328. 2+2 = 22

It would be up to them to determine just what 'authoritarian' truly means and the ways they themselves are able to contribute to such a potentially oppressive scenario occurring but personally? I'd consider them a candidate for being able to think outside the box; an indicator of the kind of person I would recruit for a design team
:dunce:

Rulers make bad lovers
You better put your kingdom up for sale

[Warren DeMontague]

367. No, flamebait threads get locked.

you, of all people, should be aware of this by now.

[defendandprotect]

438. It's another "I'm superior" because I can spell science thread . . .

by another poster who believes everything the right wing tells them --

especially if it has something to do with "science."

[Warren DeMontague]

452. I wouldn't say I'm "superior" to people who think the moon landing were faked, or who think that

the LCROSS mission was psychically diverted to save a lunar colony of "Star People"...

I would say that I'm probably a good deal more sane.

[alarimer]

320. I absolutely agree with you.

While I am not sure this Moon shot accomplished much. I hadn't heard about it until this week. The left is very anti-science, as anti-science as the right, though from a different point of view. But it is still ignorant. I am going to call them both on their ignorance wherever I find it.

[Ikonoklast]

323. I see they've got to you, too....

[Marr]

337. Couldn't agree more.

[zonkers]

353. Explosions bad. Could destroy the cream cheese fields that are there somewhere.

[omega minimo]

356. It's shown how dogmatic, hidebound and hostile some of DU's self styled science guardians are

too busy mocking and attacking other DUers to ever step up and actually share their wealth of knowledge, out of fear they'll get the same treatment from their "peers."

This must be what their professors did to them. The grand tradition of science reduced to bullying and oneupsmanship.

Much easier to assume everything is known, safe, tidy, dead, than dare to explore and discover new ideas. That would be......... science!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

361. It was abundantly clear that most woo woos never read past the headline.

Because they kept thinking it involved a literal "bomb."

Furthermore, everybody in this country is given a free basic science education in high school. And it was abundantly clear that the woo woos had squandered it.

So there's no point in trying to science to people who are purposefully ignorant.

The fact that people did try to teach the woo woos basic facts about the experiment and those comments were ignored (including by yourself) is proof positive.

[billh58]

365. Trying to debate

the "woo woos" on this thread is like trying to debate Creationists, Flat Earthers, Birthers, and Rush Limbaugh. To them, everything they do not agree with, nor understand, is a conspiracy.

[omega minimo]

370. you have no "debate" you just used straight boilerplate cliches, all say the same things, maybe

from the talking points on your beloved hater web sites :shrug:


The haters are too afraid to share what they know, for fear of being treated like they treat others, by their fellow bully buddies. They huff and they puff but they never actaully SAY anything.

[billh58]

371. Which

"beloved hater web sites" would those be, do tell? If it wasn't for strawman arguments the "woo woos" would have very little to say.

It's really, really, hard to "share what {we} know" with someone who already believes they know it all. See how that works? As for the rest of us, we still have much more to learn each and every day of our lives, and separating fear, superstition, and myth, from the demonstrable truth is a large part of that process.

[omega minimo]

376. Unfortunately

you don't know what you're talking about and don't realize you are exemplifying the bigotry right now.

[billh58]

378. And your statement

is not an argument, but an illogical opinion based on very little real knowledge of what I do, or do not, know. Acquiring knowledge is not "exemplifying" bigotry, and demanding demonstrable truth is a basic principle of acquiring knowledge. Opinion and fact are two entirely different things, and while opinion can not trump fact, the reverse is, in fact, fact.

I actually do "know what I'm talking about," and I'd be more than happy to share some of that knowledge with you when you are in a more rational and receptive state of mind...;-)

[omega minimo]

380. Now here's a good example

of the detractors' ability to be coherent and articulate when they choose to, conveying their intelligence rather than they're belligerence.

Also a good example of the insanity of these types acting completely and repetitively hostile and then expect that when their demands are met, they will deign to participate in actual discussion.

I've said many times I wish they would use their smarts for good and not be venal.

And your last bullshit insult caps it all off nicely, doesn't it? :evilfrown: You are neither rational or receptive, otherwise you wouldn't team up with the bully squad.

[billh58]

382. I have never

"bullied" anyone, including you. I do not put anyone down for being uninformed, or having "different" opinions, but I also do not tolerate deliberate misinformation, inane urban myths, or unfounded and unprovable conspiracy theories.

I have read many of your posts on this and other forums, and I know that you are not a Luddite. You are among those who feel that Internet "know-it-alls" fall into a single pompous and condescending category. Did it ever occur to you that some of us truly want to advance knowledge and understanding, and are attempting to educate rather than intimidate?

Having a certain level of knowledge does not make one superior, only eager for more knowledge coupled with an increasing (and very human) desire to share that knowledge. Choosing to "feel" inferior is mostly an excuse to cognitively fail while blaming someone else.

[omega minimo]

389. Perhaps

you are not aware that you have just done so:

"I do not put anyone down for being uninformed, or having "different" opinions"

after posting

"Trying to debate
the "woo woos" on this thread is like trying to debate Creationists, Flat Earthers, Birthers, and Rush Limbaugh. To them, everything they do not agree with, nor understand, is a conspiracy."

That's standard hater handbook talk there. The threads that GD fosters with that kind of tag team talk, contain scant topical information that anyone as lucid as you might provide.

"Having a certain level of knowledge does not make one superior, only eager for more knowledge coupled with an increasing (and very human) desire to share that knowledge. Choosing to "feel" inferior is mostly an excuse to cognitively fail while blaming someone else."

That's a crock as far as threads like this and the ones it refers to goes. The "desire" to topdog totally displaces any desire to share knowledge. As I've said, there are feelings of "inferiority" behind the bluster, because the self styled scientists don't wanna be topdogged themselves, so they DON'T post informatively, but abusively. So, the thread's a joke, ha ha, this OP is about how stupid and fundamentalist people are, the cliches and canned talk are reinforced, more damage done on DU. Great.

BTW, ever point out to the sciencist/skeptic crowd that they may appear as fundie as their target groups seem to them -- there's HELL to pay. :nuke: They fuckin' freak. Too close to home and all that.

It's truly sad that so many smart people want to act so hatefully, no matter what they think or believe. Even if you act civilized, your previous post reflects the common attitude that one group Knows All and has the right to tell others to STFU. IMHO, that's stupid, not smart. And yes, it is bullying. Authoritarian. Divisive.

Thank you.

[billh58]

393. The "woo woos"

statement addressed those who obviously were not interested in the truth, but only in being obnoxious Luddite "woo woos" (like Creationists, Birthers, etc.).

I have neither the time, nor the inclination to perform a search of your other posts. I meant that as a compliment, and I do NOT consider you to be among the Luddite "woo woos." I have no problem with "bullshit" being called on something I've posted in rebuttal to a position, and if I am proven to be off-base, I will admit it.

If I have come off as an arrogant, condescending, flippant, asshole, then I apologize because that was not my intent. On the other hand, your condescending assumptions about me do not paint you in the best light either. Denying that there ARE "woo woos" in the woodwork does not change the fact that they need to be countered at times.

I will let you have the last word here, but this conversation has gone in a direction that detracts from not only this thread, but the interests of science. "Bombing" the Moon was a righteous kill.

Live long and prosper.

See ya...;-)

Bill

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

391. What kind of bigotry?

Stupid people are not a race, gender, class, religion, or orientation.

[Marr]

412. Who knows.

I half expect this person's posts will eventually be revealed as some kind of avante-garde performance art.

[PVnRT]

425. Plenty of people tried to "share their knowledge" with you, and you ignored them

You and the rest of the woos, when confronted with such knowledge, just stick your fingers in your ears and say, "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

I swear, you are the biggest flaming hypocrite and troll on this website.

[TheKentuckian]

458. Oh come on now. This thing has evolved from multiple patient efforts

to explain the project to the uninformed to a necessary beat back of whackadoodles that could care less about learning a damned thing who are devoutly devoted to a bunch of paranoid fantasies of all kinds.

The "new ideas" are meant to impede not facilitate exploration and knowledge and the folks espousing them will lead us to the same return to the dark ages as their fellow nutjobs on the right. The statement sounds all wise, inclusive, and advanced but it is pretty much a call to coddle any foolishness that comes down the pipe in order to soothe feelings.

What do you suggest pretending ideas and misconceptions are valid but brushing them off once the concerned is out of earshot or what? Do we just ignore that the burden of proof is on who makes the claim?

[omega minimo]

467. The burden of proof is on you who made the claim

"This thing has evolved from multiple patient efforts to explain the project to the uninformed..."

This was not evident on the threads the OP is referencing. The least the self appointed sciencist annointed could do is be honest about their own behavior, not that anyone expects that to happen any time soon.

"he "new ideas" are meant to impede not facilitate exploration and knowledge and the folks espousing them will lead us to the same return to the dark ages as their fellow nutjobs on the right."

That is a completely false statement based on assumptions and no evidence. The truth is this topic, like many others, is worth pointing out again because there is much potential on DU for more interesting, cross disciplinary discussion than is every allowed to occur.

IMHO there are as many science oriented folks who don't appreciate the behavior of the self appointed sciencist annointed and don't get involved -- just as there are many interested in these topics who won't dare face the frothing at the mouth sciencists. They shout down anything and everything as quick as they can and kill actual discussion. They rarely share actual data and information. And strangely, when amongst themselves, they share ideas that they would attack in a heartbeat as "woo" anywhere else on the board.

"What do you suggest pretending ideas and misconceptions are valid but brushing them off once the concerned is out of earshot or what? "

I suggest pretending that DU Rules "based on respect" matter and that it's possible for different POVs and individuals who would never otherwise meet, to volley ideas back and forth -- AT LEAST ONCE, MAYBE TWICE WOULD BE A FU%%ING RECORD -- before the haters hound them out of the piicture.

[TheKentuckian]

482. What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously.

[naaman fletcher]

358. There are imbeciles with no knowledge of or respect for science on both sides.

[kentuck]

362. I'm not sure a rocket hit the moon.

I'm not even sure a rocket was launched. I do know there is an elaborate propaganda system that is used on the people from time to time.

[Warren DeMontague]

366. Actually, you're just a head in a jar, dreaming all of this.

[kentuck]

372. I thought science was based on facts.

You have no facts.

[billh58]

374. Do you

have any "facts" handy about that "elaborate propaganda system that is used on the people from time to time?"

NASA does indeed have verifiable facts and data from the experiment, but then again you know better -- right?

[kentuck]

377. Yes. We all saw the huge plume of ice and dust when it hit.

Do you want to see the photo?

[billh58]

379. Not just

the photo, but telemetry data and chemical analysis by the reams. Any progress on coming up with some "data" on that widespread propaganda machine run by NASA?

[Warren DeMontague]

395. That wasn't science

that was a joke.

Your post implying that somehow the LCROSS launch and mission have been 'faked' didn't merit a serious reply.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

375. You mean in the same way jets totally did not hit the WTC?

[kentuck]

381. What kind of analogy is that?

Pretty weak, I think. There are a lot of naive scientists in the world - many of them here at DU. Maybe it hit the moon? Maybe it didn't? We'll know when we see the facts. You haven't seen them yet, have you?

[billh58]

383. And the purpose

of this particular NASA nickle and dime conspiracy theory would be to...? Is there a particular government agency that you believe to be responsible for making shit up just to piss you off? Or do you just disbelieve everything unless you are presented personally with the indisputable, concrete, facts?

Okay, I confess. I made the whole thing up and leaked it to the press, and NASA just went along with it because budget hearings are coming up. God, that feels better now that it is off my chest, and the Truth is Out There...

[kentuck]

384. You ask a question?

"Or do you just disbelieve everything unless you are presented personally with the indisputable, concrete, facts?"

The answer is yes.

[billh58]

385. Okey

dokey then. How're the "facts" on that NASA propaganda machine theory of yours coming along? Care to explain to me why your computer starts up when you flip the switch? How old is the earth? Are electrons, neutrons, protons, and quarks real?

[kentuck]

386. Brilliant response!

When NASA gives us the facts, get back to us. In the meantime, you want people to believe the government on blind faith? You can do that, if you wish.

[billh58]

387. Meh...

You haven't answered any of my questions, and I suspect that your only goal here is to be a contrarian, and that's cool. I've got other things to do, so see you around bubba...;-)

[kentuck]

388. Yeah, if I'm lucky.

Thanks for all the facts!

[Warren DeMontague]

396. On what basis are you claiming that the LCROSS mission was faked?

I mean, aside from "I *never* believe anything the government tells me".

Do you have some secret data or information you're not sharing? I'm all ears.

[beam me up scottie]

417. Maybe not faked, see #413:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6728139&mesg_id=6756141

[Warren DeMontague]

419. Holy Fuck.

That's just.. I mean.. Really... Just...

Holy Fuckitty Fuck Fuck Fuck.

[beam me up scottie]

422. Terrifying, isn't it?

It must be comforting to make up your own reality.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

390. Well, let's see.

We know that the rocket hit the moon.

Anybody who says otherwise is pretty fucking stupid and living in denial.

Just like the people who claim jets didn't crash into the WTC.

There. It's that sort of analogy.

[kentuck]

392. May I ask?

How do you know the rocket hit the moon? Did you see it on TV?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

439. You can watch the whole mission from beginning to end.

Of course, you can watch 9-11 on TV too, and people still don't believe it.

[billh58]

394. You have more

stamina than me. After being called a "bully and a bigot" for pointing out willful ignorance, and plain old obnoxious contrariness, I have pretty much run out of bullets.

I think that we should invade the Moon, send all of its inhabitants to Gitmo, and then blow the worthless piece of rock to bloody bits. I don't care about tides, or whether women can menstruate or not. There, I've come out of my fascist-scientist shell and I'm glad!

[beam me up scottie]

413. Behold teh fucking stupid:

Friends,

I will briefly share what I "saw" during my participation in yesterday's successful Joint Psychic Exercise (JPE), and then share what Star Person Incarnate Human Fran has to say about the Cabal-controlled media and the LCROSS NASA mission.

I moved over in time some minutes, and moved (astrally) over in space a certain distance and then, operating from "there", went out psychically to LCROSS and Centaur booster as they were streaming towards the Moon.

Next I enwrapped LCROSS in a telekinetic force and redirected it onto a course to the left so it was aiming towards one Moon-diameter's width left of the Moon's left side. Then the same was done with the Centaur booster rocket.

After LCROSS and Centaur were speeding on their new course, I engaged first one, then the other, with strong dissolution energy to unbind the Strong Force bonds holding their atoms together as molecules. Moving from top to bottom, I un-did the Strong Force bonds, causing the component materials of these space vehicles to come apart at the molecular level. This process also safely dismantled the advanced munitions which were secretly aboard these space vehicles. Nothing left but a expanding array of atoms.

I could somewhat feel other lightworkers at work, too.
Good work, fellow lightworkers!

Mission accomplished!

This was confirmed this morning by Star Nations, whose members were also at work on these two space vehicles during our JPE, to assure thorough deflection and disintegration.
Thus the star folks lunar colony within Cabeus A Crater is safe from overhead bombardment.

Hoo-rah!

in the light,

Richard Boylan, Ph.D.

http://www.drboylan.com/10.08.09jpesuccess.html

And before anyone asks, yes, he is serious and yes, the woos take him seriously.

Be afraid, be very afraid. :yoiks:

[Warren DeMontague]

418. Well, he IS a Ph.D.

I mean, that's gotta count for something, right?

I'm sure it impressed "Star Person Incarnate Fran".

[beam me up scottie]

421. Yes, and he's running for office too.

He generously provides a detour for possible future voters who discover his woo website.

[Warren DeMontague]

423. I'm still stuck on "Star Person Incarnate Fran"

What could that mean? The mind boggles.



....is that a great band name, or what? :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

424. He may have an obsession, notice how she resembles one of these Star Visitors:

[comrade snarky]

469. I like the little square head guy, reminds me of Sponge Bob.

[beam me up scottie]

472. He reminds me of Butterball from Hellraiser (the Cenobyte on the left):

Be careful, those star people could be preverts in disguise, they're awfully fond of children...

[comrade snarky]

473. He does look more like Butterball!

Oh man... now I'm picturing SpongeBob as a Cenobyte.


CenoBob - "Hello again Kirsty, we are the bringers of Pain and Ridiculousness!"

Kirsty - "No! No!! Not the jellyfish! Ahhh! Eels!!" <swoop swoop swoop grab grab grab!>

CenoBob - "HeheHHEhHEHhehEHHEHEhehhHEhheeheeheh LALALAlalallalalLALLAlaaaa"

[beam me up scottie]

474. ROFL!

The kiddies would need therapy for life! :rofl:

[comrade snarky]

476. This is why it's good

I don't make games for children anymore. :evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

477. Rat? Is that you?

Did you escape from 'Pearls Before Swine' again?

[comrade snarky]

478. Rat? Me? No...

Me zeeba neighba

Come in. Us no crockydiles.

[beam me up scottie]

479. I thank the FSM every day for that strip.

Too bad you crocs didn't get Jeffy, better luck next time. :patriot:

[GoneOffShore]

427. That's one of the stupidest things I've seen on the net

That's merits a whole separate wing in the Great Hall of Stupid.

I'm going to sit in a corner and mutter quietly to myself now - so that the Indigo Ouroboros can't attack.

Wrong, so wrong.


I just wish that I could keep recommending the original post.

[beam me up scottie]

432. He's not the worst, unfortunately, I have links to sites that would send you straight into the abyss

I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to woo, nothing is too stupid.

And yes, the op totally rocks, I wish I had been here to rec it.

[comrade snarky]

475. Dang... replied to the wrong post

It IS late.

[tekisui]

397. This is the first moon post I have posted in, and I say knr!~

[NeedleCast]

398. Can I just say that I'm excited that after being gone all weekend

this thread is still alive and still collecting ridiculous comments from the anti-knowledge crowd? I see that now a few of them are suggesting that the experiment was a fake.

If it wasn't so painfully stupid it would be a lot more funny. But it's still funny.

[beam me up scottie]

415. I thought it was funny until I realized some of the woos actually think they thwarted the mission.

Exqueeze me, I mean the "lightworkers". :puke:

[kentuck]

426. I think what these threads show is that...

there are a lot of arrogant and rude know-it-alls that are willing to hide their pettiness behind the claim of "science".

Personally, I support science and the exploration of space. I believe in science. But. I like to play the devil's advocate sometimes. There was never an iota of doubt with some folks that believed every word coming from NASA and our government without question. To me, personally, that is disturbing. Especially when all the information these folks had was what they saw on TV and read on the Internet.

So, in their petty little world, they saw this as an opportunity to personally attack anyone that might express any doubt about the mission as being ignorant and not as smart as they. Give me the inquisitive mind over the self-proclaimed "scientific" mind anyday.

I tend to believe the rocket hit the moon, although as yet, we have seen very little evidence or proof of that fact. But, I am an enemy of "science" to these folks. And they are an enemy of truth. Because, in the end, they will believe anything. That is what this thread has shown.

[omega minimo]

428. Well put

:thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

443. Thanks for Sharon!

[winyanstaz]

507. well said

[architect359]

430. K + R

Wish that I can add my rec to this.

[Homer Wells]

431. FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humor Deficiency Syndrome runs rampant at DU!!!!

:party: :silly:

[backscatter712]

442. K&R so I can point and laugh.

The anti-science tards that were saying we were going to crack the moon in half or knock it out of orbit can now sit and pout after what we said was going to happen happened - the rocket stage hit the moon, went POOF, made a crater, just like the other zillions of craters on the moon, and after that, nothing happened.

And you were freaking out about this? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You guys are IDIOTS!

[omega minimo]

445. "The anti-science tards"

Don't make the bigots look any worse than they already do. They really don't need you to "retard" their credibility.

[Warren DeMontague]

448. Nothing happened because the psychic friends network mentally defused the secret atomic weaponry

and saved the lunar colony of our space brothers.

:crazy:

No, I'm not making this up.

[winyanstaz]

455. I have to laugh because yes....

There were a lot of people working against this that didn't want the blast to go off.
Not to save a "colony" as we do not know for sure what is up there..if anything but because the Moon is not fully explored nor do we know all the consequences of blasting holes in it as of yet. After all..we have only landed there once.

I guess thats:
psychics 1
Nasa 0
rofl

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

457. Um...

"Not to save a "colony" as we do not know for sure what is up there.."

Actually, that was the stated purpose for much of the "attempts" to will the rocket off course.

"the Moon is not fully explored"

No thanks to woo woos who object to exploring the moon such as this one.

"we know all the consequences of blasting holes in it as of yet."

Sure we do. Hit the moon with a spent rocket and it will kick up some debris which can be analyzed spectroscopically.

"After all..we have only landed there once."

Uh, we've landed on the moon many times. There were six Apollo moonwalks in addition to various probes from various countries.

So I guess thats:

Scientists: lots
woo woos: zero, and disqualified for illiteracy.

[Warren DeMontague]

462. Indeed. Perhaps. Or perhaps, you have to laugh because

they're coming to take you away, hoo hoo, hee hee, ha ha.

[winyanstaz]

480. arent you lucky I am a good witch? :)

ho ho..ha ha..if you only knew :P hahhaaa

[Warren DeMontague]

483. I know how Karma is supposed to work. So if someday, someone mocks me for some goofy beliefs

I suppose I will have earned it.

But I'll say to you the same thing I say to the Jesus-drunk High School football coach who credits "God" with the winning touchdown--

if one has these amazing powers, shouldn't one be using them to, say, stop the genocide in Darfur?

I mean, is the LCROSS mission really the highest priority for your ectoplasmic mojo? :shrug:

[winyanstaz]

485. I agree that those that can help others should do so.

It would take a whole lot of people working in a very large circle or a number of circles to stop something that bad..and for somethings..only being there physically would help.
For example I could not lift or move someone who was wounded to safety from here. However if I knew who exactly the individual was that was doing the harming..I could do something then. I only need their name or something that belonged to them.
You have to have a target/focus point.
And just so you know? It is not ectoplasmic whatever..I have no idea of what that is.
It is the power of focused intent and using the light fibers of the second layer of the energy field that I use.
If you ever come to visit me..I will be happy to show you the first four layers of the human aura. I cannot show you all seven as you have to earn the right (by raising your own spiritual vibration rate) of the last three..I cannot walk the path for you.
It is also my spiritual beliefs to NOT manipulate another without their permission as that would fall into the range of the Black Magic Arts and I am not a Black Magic practitioner. I don't put "spells" on people. However if you believe someone has put one on you...I am one to see to take it off.

[Warren DeMontague]

494. "I could not lift or move someone who was wounded to safety from here"

What's the difference between moving someone to safety, and psychically redirecting a moon probe?

[beam me up scottie]

499. Voodoo, you rube.

How else do you control the actions of people? :spank:

[winyanstaz]

503. ;)

[winyanstaz]

508. That much energy would take a large circle of people...

(or someone much more powerful than any I know of at this time.)
to move a person you would have to know the name or have something that was directly connected to them or an image of the person to be moved. To redirect the moon probe you can just use a mental image of a rocket which we have all seen.
Real magic does not go "poof" like in the movies. It happens logically.
For example if you were trying to move a person..someone there might become the means to do so or they might revive enough to get up and walk out of harms way because of the energy you sent.
If you were trying to redirect the rocket..it can also take many forms..such as someones numbers would be incorrect.
We all use magic/science of the mind everyday..by the way we think and by the way we think..we create our individual realities.
For example..you thought to sit down and make a post on this thread.
I always think I will get front row parking and green lights...and I do.
The Yogas say.."Thoughts are things and things are thoughts." Look around you..all the things you see in your room were first a thought-form.
They also say.."Where attention goes..energy flows."
The Christians Christ said "As it is in your heart..so is it with you."
They are all saying the exact same thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

511. Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence.

That's the same thing I would tell someone claiming that Santa flies through the sky delivering presents in a magic sleigh, someone claiming that they have a giant invisible orangutan living on their roof, or that their omnipotent friend in the sky has nothing better to worry about than whether the hairless apes of planet Earth get married before they screw.

All I'm saying is, if it's so, prove it.

I haven't seen any proof that a "large circle of people" redirected the LCROSS probe via long-distance telekinesis. Furthermore, if such a thing were possible, it would be a relatively simple matter to get that "large circle of people" to cause some sort of physical motion that could be independently measured and verified in a lab. There are scientists who would be very interested to see such a thing. The entire modus operandi of science is to update our descriptions or 'maps' of reality, based on new evidence and experimentally verifiable data.

So, if there's data, prove it.

Or don't- I'm not interested in changing what you believe. But don't expect me to just take your word for it.

As for how we 'create our individual realities'; IMNSHO, the brain works (in this regard) similar to the way the nice day at the park appears out of an assemblage of dots in Mr. Seurat's painting:




Your brain interprets the information of the external world and creates your impression of it. Constantly, below the conscious radar. Certainly, this is true. But don't confuse the menu ("reality" as you experience it) with the meal (everything "out there", such as it is) ... that's an old mistake, easy to make, and it has historically been responsible for all kinds of mischief.

[winyanstaz]

512. I am happy to show anyone the first four layers of the human aura

and to let them feel the energy for their selves for example to prove that such energy does exist.
I know that science can measure some mental energy so if they want to try to measure it..it is fine with me.
However they would have to come to where I am for me to show them this and I will not be available to just any ol fool. They would have to be genuinely interested and have an open mind for me to even bother with them.

[Warren DeMontague]

522. I'm not talking about auras. I'm talking about telekinesis.

As in, people redirecting several tons of NASA probe with their minds.

Like I said- if a 'large group of people' could focus and cause such an effect, hey- someone should call Princeton or MIT and set up an experiment where the large group of people cause something to spontaneously levitate in a lab, while scientists and instruments record the whole thing.

I guarantee you, a great deal of snark you perceive on these issues would evaporate overnight. Like magic, even.

[winyanstaz]

523. I realize that..and what I am telling you is that it is the light-fibers that are used

to touch and or effect things far away from you.
It is also the light-fibers that are used to "see" in the third eye things that are connected to whatever object one is holding. That is how that power works.
It is also what they are using when they do their remote-viewing in the military experiments they have been using for some time now.
With the right lighting and if a person's own energy field is bright enough, we can actually see and feel these energy fibers.
This requirement of having a fairly clear and bright aura is because we have to see through our own energy field first.
It is easy though to help people see and the majority can do so easily with just a little help.
I use them to scan a person's body that is far away from me and can tell where and what area of their body that they are out of balance at or have a medical problem at and need to see a dr for.
I have done so on line for a number of people for some time now and have a good success rate. I don't even need a persons real name as their on-line handle is connected to them enough.
The light fibers are quite fascinating.

[beam me up scottie]

486. Or what?

Are you insinuating that you can use your "powers" to do something to WM?

[winyanstaz]

487. I am saying some would certainly try if they were of the sort to do those kind of things..

I dont practice the Black Arts myself.

[beam me up scottie]

490. I'm sure he's grateful, Glenda.

As am I.

:rofl:


Whoo... hee... sniffle ... thank you!

[NeedleCast]

496. I've seen some crazy threats made over the interwebs

Convenient that this "witch" does use powers that could actually, you know, do anything.

[beam me up scottie]

497. Can laughing be fatal?

'cause I swear she's trying to kill us. My boyfriend thought I was going into convulsions and threw me in the shower.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this gift, what a thread! :patriot:

[NeedleCast]

514. I do what I can for me people

I'm a patriot, that's what it's about.

}(

[winyanstaz]

504. I did not say I do not use my powers...

I said I don't attack people or manipulate others..at least ...not without a extemely darn good reason like protecting myself from attack or someone I love. To attack someone that is spouting off about something they dont really is not a good reason in my book.

[winyanstaz]

502. heheh...your welcome :P

[Warren DeMontague]

495. I would tell those black arts practicioners that they need to grow a thicker skin.

[SidDithers]

518. Thank god for Dionne Warwick and Sylvia Browne....nt

:rofl:

Sid

[winyanstaz]

456. umm and how do you know it went "poof"?

or even hit the moon? No one saw any evidence. All you have is Nasa's word that they shot the rocket and it hit. NASA claimed we would all be able to see the blast..but that just was not true now ..was it?

[backscatter712]

461. I saw the video.

It did indeed record the moment of the rocket stage's impact, and made a cloud that about a pixel or two across in the video.

I know, hitting a ball of rock with a projectile isn't as exciting as you thought it would be...

[Warren DeMontague]

463. There are many copies

And they have a plan

[MilesColtrane]

465. Our own pet Psylon.

Isn't it cute? It thinks it's many people!

[David Zephyr]

446. Thank you.

"It kills me that on the political left we have almost as many anti-knowledge, anti-science freaks as the right does."

It kills me, too.

It's truly astounding to me still that people who profess to be open minded and progressive are still mired deeply in superstition.

Thank you for your refreshing thread. -- DZ

[omega minimo]

466. "truly astounding to me still that people who profess to be open minded and progressive are still"

It's truly astounding to me still that people who profess to be open minded and progressive are still mired deeply in authoritarianism, more in line with fundamental Christians than any truly open minded and progressive person could ever be.

[TheKentuckian]

460. Reaction to simple and generally obvious experiment calls theory of evolution into question

in favor of increasingly likely Golgafrinchan Ark B hypothesis. Apparently, every other form of life on this orb did evolve, except man who wrecked the process for far more deserving lifeforms by taking their earned niche.

News at 11.

[omega minimo]

468. What's missing here is the evolution of consciousness.

[Zomby Woof]

470. Lou Reed predicted this 20 years ago!!

He was ahead of his time. :rofl:

Check out these lyrics from 1989, "Sick Of You" from his 'New York' album:

I was up in the morning with the TV blarin'
brush my teeth sittin' watchin' the news
All the beaches were closed the ocean was a Red Sea
but there was no one there to part in two
There was no fresh salad because there's hypos in the cabbage
Staten Island disappeared at noon
And they say the midwest is in great distress
And NASA blew up the moon
The ozone layer has no ozone anymore
and you're gonna leave me for the guy next door
I'm Sick of You
I'm Sick of You
They arrested the Mayor for an illegal favor
sold the Empire State to Japan
And Oliver North married William Secord
and gave birth to a little Teheran
And the Ayatollah bought a nuclear warship
if he dies he wants to go out in style
And there's nothing to eat that don't carry the stink
of some human waste dumped in the Nile
We one thing is certainly true
no one here knows what to do
And I'm Sick of You
I'm Sick of You
The radio said there were 400 dead
in some small town in Arkansas
Some whacked out trucker drove into a nuclear reactor
and killed everybody he saw
Now he's on Morton Downey and he's glowing and shining
doctors say this is a medical advance
They say the bad makes the good and there's something to be learned
in every human experience
Well I know one thing that really is true
this here's a zoo and the keeper ain't you
And I'm sick of it
I'm Sick of You
They ordained the Trumps and then he got the mumps
and died being treated at Mt. Sinal
And my best friend Bill died from a poison pill
some wired doctor prescribed for stress
My arms and legs are shrunk the food all has lumps
they discovered some animal no one's ever seen
It was an inside trader eating a rubber tire
after running over Rudy Giuliani
They say the President's dead but no one can find his head
it's been missing now for weeks
But no one noticed it he had seemed so fit
and I'm Sick of it
I'm Sick of You
I'm so Sick of You, bye, bye, bye
Bye, bye, bye

[comrade snarky]

471. Of everything on this thread the thing I cant believe

Is that it's STILL going!! There it is again on the first page of GD.


Someone get the stakes and holy water. :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

481. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeedleCast]

484. Awesome!

[Canuckistanian]

491. Could this be?

Are we seeing the birth of the elusive "thread that won't die?"

[comrade snarky]

505. It's shuffeling around the groups muttering

Brains....


brainssss!

[flvegan]

498. THE ARISTOCRATS!

[SidDithers]

519. A reply that is never out of place...

:applause:

Sid

[Ignis]

524. Aaaaaaaaaand....SCENE!

Nice one, lads. That's a wrap! :hi:

[gleaner]

500. The moon bombing ....

is designed to increase knowledge of the moon's atmosphere and look for water, not to destroy anything. That is not a bad thing. There are those of us who are old enough to remember a viable, living space program which vastly increased our scientific knowledge and provided technology which translated into many superior consumer goods which we would not have enjoyed without that knowledge.

If the space program had continued, we might have had a space station on the moon by now. It was what we were promised by NASA and if the support had been there for spending the money and expanding the program to something other than a race with the former Soviet Union, I think it could have happened.

But then we still would have had the naysayers and the lunatic fringe who believe that the moon landing in 1969 never took place. The space station would have been "staged," if it had been built, and the flat worlders would still be afraid to take a cruise for fear of sailing off the edge of the world.

[Warren DeMontague]

510. Breaking: Moon Bombing Thread Now Larger Than Actual Moon. nt

[NeedleCast]

515. DAMN IT!

You've discovered the real purpose of my thread! To gain enough mass to really destroy the moon!

At 750 posts I'm loading it into a rocket...

[Lucky Luciano]

525. Is this a fucking joke?

"1. Its disrespectful to lunar religions
2. Could crack the moon
3. Could knock the moon off it's orbit
4. Its really just a warmongering, saber rattling event aimed at scaring (insert axis of evil country here)"

ya gotta tell me who was going on about #1 above...oh and the MIT physicists who warned you about #2,3 - ya gotta show me those folks!

:rofl:

you are not serious are you? I actually did read that others said there were some looney (no pun intended) tunes on this board complaining about 1,2,3 - I just have not looked for them - now I am kind of fascinated in meeting these train wrecks! LOL!

#4 might have some credibility if you twist things around pretty badly.

[samsingh]

528. i think a lot of people were just confused by what was being attempted

i know i felt it was okay once i understood its purpose.

[samsingh]

529. the left is nothing like the right

we get hysterical over what we perceive could threaten life and wellbeing. the right gets hysterical when they hear that something is done for the betterment of other people than themselves.