Check One Two Check---Is this DU?

[KatyMan]

What in the world is it with the moon shit? It's a rock in space that we'd like to build bases and labs on (non military, hopefully), because our species is extremely curious and very exploratory. We'd like to know if there's water there. Helps with the planning, you see. And the rocket that will impact the moon will have the same effect as a fly impacting your head.
I'd expect the sort of talk we're getting around here at rapture ready or freeperville, but jeez, this is DU. What's next, defense of astrology? An alchemy forum, maybe? Phrenology? Ley lines? Flat earth?

I really wish people of all stripes would realize it's the 21st century, and the old myths are just that: myths.

[Ichingcarpenter]

1. Its lunacy I tell you....... DU has gone luny

I posted the orginal story in the Science forum
long before huffington post or others submitted it.

the real science is in that forum.... it is a nice place
to visit.

[gkhouston]

4. Oh, it's science? I thought we were bombing the moon in an effort to extradite Polanski. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

2. Sometimes the answer to the question "is this thing on?" ...

is NO.

[Ian David]

3. Want a peek at my ignore list? It's a who's-who of woo-woo.

You'd think we were trying to vaccinate the moon or something.

[Ignis]

31. "vaccinate the moon"

I LOL'd! Nice one.

[trotsky]

42. TEH MOON DOES NOT DESERVE AUTISM!!!!1! n/t

[Warpy]

5. Unfortunately, all that magical thinking stuff is alive and well on DU

and, while many of us share your utterly unromantic image of the moon, others still buy all that poetic nonsense.

I find the whole idea of a moon base preposterously premature since we have no way of dealing with micrometeorites, let alone the big ones. However, the information about the makeup of the satellite that an impact turns up will be very valuable in the future--if we have a future.

The poets and magical thinkers will always be with us. Sometimes, their ideas can send us in a direction we'd never anticipated and turn out to be very productive. We still manage to do good science in spite of them in all the other cases.

[omega minimo]

23. Here's a hint

of how the chauvinistic presentation of science popular here today, is divorced from the realities of its own history.........

"The poets and magical thinkers will always be with us. Sometimes, their ideas can send us in a direction we'd never anticipated and turn out to be very productive. We still manage to do good science in spite of them in all the other cases."







"For just as we write in good faith what happens in our own time, and so to speak paint the state of our affairs, so that we put it on view to those who come after, and their successors, they also have done the same thing who were before us, from which it comes about by the common association of men that by combined endeavors our life becomes as it were more prolonged, and fuller, and we are able to pronounce on the state of things as if we had been present at them all."

Niccolo Cabeo, Italian Astronomer (1586-1650)

[get the red out]

6. I think it's just to get people going

I think the story keeps getting posted hoping someone will bite, then they can get mobbed. People are bored today. It's a boring Thursday.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Many people see the word bomb, and a bomb goes off in their head...

Most of those are willing to comment on a story they did not read.

Perhaps the right and the left are not so different.

[jus_the_facts]

8. Where's the OUTRAGE over cryptozoologists around here?!

:D

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xM6S1O620QE/SLpBmkeTfcI/AAAAAAAAAvw/awXY6fpfoV8/s400/a+bigfoot+love+slave.jpg

[Forkboy]

10. I love the look on Bigfoot's face there.

:rofl:

:hi:

[jus_the_facts]

11. Heeheehee...

:hi: :loveya:

[leeroysphitz]

9. We must bomb them on the moon so we don't have to bomb them here.

It's just that simple.

ETA: The moon hates us for our freedoms.

[jgraz]

12. Hey, it'll be the first time we bombed something without killing civilians.

Of course, we haven't done it yet so ... fingers crossed.

[SidDithers]

13. Recc'd...

common sense and intelligence. Nice to see DU still has some :)

Sid

[KatyMan]

15. Thank you

from a fellow SCTV fan...!
As an aside, I'm on vacation in a couple of weeks, and plan to spend it catching up on my SCTV dvds. Looking forward to a great week!

[SidDithers]

17. Enjoy the DVDs!...

Here's "An Officer and a Gentile" to get you started :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdYcDm2758M&feature=channel_page

Sid

[mikelgb]

14. Hey as long as they don't fly planes into it...

I don't want the moon collapsing in it's own footprint.

:hide:

[1776Forever]

16. I am sure it is like an Asteroid hitting it - check this out.....

http://www.nss.org/settlement/asteroids/

Asteroids - National Space Society

.........In 1178 our Moon was hit by an asteroid creating a 120,000 megaton explosion (about six times the force of Earth's entire atomic arsenal). The collision dug a 20 km (12 mile) crater. This strike was recorded by a monk in Canterbury, England. We are extremely lucky it didn't hit us. The Moon is a smaller target and has much less gravity to attract an impactor. If a 120,000 megaton blast had hit the Earth our history would have been dramatically different. We're just lucky that one hit the Moon instead.

.........

Now that I have established that I am understanding your view - I must say I do believe Astrology does have a place in our world. That is my opinion. Astrology is a very ancient tool of people who were called heretics at one time. There are many instances where there are concrete facts to show that if used correctly it can be useful for future forecasting.

As in this reference article:

Are scientists prejudiced against astrology?

http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/prejdice.html

Testable

The claims that astrology makes are just as testable as the claims made by chemists or physicists. For example, astrology claims that people born with Mars in Aries are likely to be more aggressive than average. This is testable. Unfortunately, because of the prejudice of the scientific community, funds for studying astrology are limited. Consequently , much astrological theory is unproven. Despite this, there is very strong evidence that a core of astrology is, indeed, valid. Hans Eysenk, professor of Psychology at the University of London, has written an excellent review of recent literature. Another book I would recommend him to read is "Recent Advances in Natal Astrology" by G. Dean, an analytical chemist from Perth.

............

My opinion.

[Javaman]

18. I love when topics go viral.

that was one truly priceless thread yesterday.

someone really shook the stupid tree really hard.

The funny thing is; all the truly batshit insane thread have the same thing in common, a particular poster seems to alway be pushing the envelope on dumb.

[Call Me Wesley]

19. It's a little bigger than that,

and of course NASA will not let you know what's really going on with the BTMFG-mission (bomb the moon for good.) What only a few people know is, that next to the impact crater, there's the Lunar Eiffel tower, erected by French astronauts in 1956, made out of Thirlium. Under it, also next to the impact crater (which will be hit with twelve hidden cold-fission warheads Mark-IV,) is an underground supply depot. Yes, it's a small bistro, but this doesn't make it any better.

NASA hates the French, and this is clearly an attack veiled as a so-called 'scientific mission.' Thus, the war in space has just begun. ESA, right now, is launching counter-attack rockets from French Guiana, a secret source just told me.

The moon will be unaffected by any of this, but the French will cry 'Merde alors!' I'll keep you unposted.

And for any of your doubters out there, here's photographic proof of the impact site, given to me by someone I can't name:

[KatyMan]

20. Who are you

who are so wise in the ways of science?

[Call Me Wesley]

24. I can't disclose that.

Let me just tell you that I once had a baguette and a coffee latte in the Lunar Bistro.

It was crap.

;)

[defendandprotect]

33. kick -- read this post --

[mike_c]

36. you can see the secret facility where Saddam manufactures anthrax....

Right there in the lower right, disguised as a crater. Yeah, right. A crater on the moon. We can see right through that kind of bullshit, Sparky. Yes, indeedy!

[Call Me Wesley]

40. Let me quickly move the Hubble ...

Ah, yes, I see what you mean.



And it's the 'crater' in the middle. The object on the left is a Lunar Oktoberfest Tent. Very popular these times of a year, even on the moon.

Craters! You're kidding! ;)

[Johonny]

21. you really think we are going to biuld a lab on the moon?

We have a hard enough time doing research in low earth orbit. Any moon base seems a looooong way off and of very limited research value.

Realize it's only the 21st century not Buck Rogers' 21st century.

[KatyMan]

25. Well, you have to start somewhere

Getting some of the details out of the way early doesn't hurt. Not to mention just the science of it (the 'bomb' I mean) and what it could add to our knowledge of the formation of the moon and the solar system in general.
I would imagine that one day, yes, there will be permanent bases on the moon. Not likely in my lifetime, I agree. But I think with space exploration you have to take a very long range view and plan accordingly.

To further contradict myself, I also support NASA and the admin's recent scrapping of any manned missions until there's a good reason for it. I don't think we should waste time/effort/money on putting a man on Mars when, as you said, we're just now trying to get the hang of low earth orbit.
I get googled eyed and excited by science because I'm not smart enough to understand anything beyond an executive summary of a given experiment or mission or theory. There are some incredibly smart people working on incredible stuff, and I think it's such a shame a lot of it gets ignored, pushed aside and defunded due to other people's fantasies and myths.
Anyway, I'm rambling and probably not coherent because it's lunch time and I haven't eaten yet! :)

[Johonny]

26. I agree

there is more scientific reasons and better scientific reasons than moonbase for the mission. As with you, I can't understand why anyone would really object to this mission.

[omega minimo]

22. In the Teach to the Test era, without well rounded education, stuck in limited thinking

some folks can only mock what they don't understand, what doesn't fit into their official mindset; to protect against that which challenges the boundaries of their learning curve....

[Blue-Jay]

27. We're going to blow up the FUCKING MOON!

That's not important to you?

[Ignis]

28. Good thing Isaac Newton didn't practice alchemy, right?

Oh...wait....

[The Straight Story]

29. Here is I was saying in another thread:

Some might see it as some NASA fundies wanting to add to biblical predictions some see - like bush invading iraq and now:


"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea."

Maybe some fundies put bush up to Iraq war and NASA to this....beware Oct 17th!!

[Dogmudgeon]

30. We lefties are too intelligent to believe pseudoscience like Creationism (repost)

No, we believe that dropping a satellite on the Moon is an atrocity against Mother Earth, that atoms contain evil spirits, and that long hair stopped the war in Vietnam.

:eyes:

--d!

[defendandprotect]

32. We, in fact, exploded nuclear weapons in outer space in the early 1960's . . .

People are rightly concerned about the abuse of nature, overall --

the drive for control over everything and everyone!

And if anyone thinks that the moon isn't seen as "the highest hill" in military sense,

they're completely naive.

Star Wars is certainly "militarization of the skies" and highly desired by PNAC.


There are many moon stories -- including that the moon was actually placed in its location.

Others relate to women, who are said to be "moon walking" when they "bleed" as the moon bleeds.

[KatyMan]

34. I'm sure no one would disagree with you

on this:

And if anyone thinks that the moon isn't seen as "the highest hill" in military sense,

they're completely naive. Star Wars is certainly "militarization of the skies" and highly desired by PNAC.

But I think the rest of your post was rather incoherent. Placed in its location? Channeling David Icke?

[defendandprotect]

38. In fact, LBJ made a speech about moon "as highest hill" in 1957 . . .

According to Pres. Carter and Pres. Clinton, they could not gain access to information
on UFO's - "because they did not have a reason to know" and/or "not high enough security
clearance." Poppy Bush told that to Carter.

Therefore, information on UFO's/ETs has a higher classification than nuclear weapons.

If we are being visited, the aliens could be our ancestors/family --
If you are familiar with the Bible, there was interbreeding between earthlings and others.
Many think earthlings/humans are hybrids and that we've been visited going back 375,000 years
or more. These civilizations could be a million or billion years more advanced than we are.

Needless to say, many cultures of the world seem to have lore which relates to aliens/
visitors from the sky.

First question the Native American asked Columbus was about the "star people." Columbus
denied any knowledge of it.

As for the moon -- it is older than the earth by a billion years . . . if I recall correctly.
There is a suggestion that it was put in place by aliens to create our environment/life on
this planet. There are also suggestions that it serves as a base for UFO's.

If you're familiar at all with the Phoenix Lights, you know the size of some of these UFO's
is immense -- some said to be 1 mile and other reports 5 miles long.

For almost 50 years now we've had 1,500 people or more a year claiming to have been abducted
by aliens. Messages at first were strongly "environmental" and anti-nuclear. The presumption
being that we've missed our chance to deal with the catastrophe of Global Warming -- and, of
course, as we can see there are continuing efforts to use nuclear weapons more widely --
creating smaller, more common weapons. Building more nuclear plants.

We did -- sadly -- explode nuclear weapons in space in the 1960's . . . some think to try to
knock out the Van Allen Radiation Belts.

Not familiar with David Icke -- but you can try the Discovery Project which is interesting --
and John Mack/Harvard was also interesting on this subject.

[KatyMan]

39. If

If we are being visited, the aliens could be our ancestors/family --
If you are familiar with the Bible, there was interbreeding between earthlings and others.
Many think earthlings/humans are hybrids and that we've been visited going back 375,000 years
or more. These civilizations could be a million or billion years more advanced than we are.

If Bigfoot lived in my backyard, he could be my pet.
If you believe the writings of bronze age goat herders have anything more than a passing grain of reality to them, you might want to reconsider that mindset.

I believe that given the infinite nature of the universe, other beings probably exist, and I like to think it's even likely they exist. I don't think they're buzzing the planet trying to scare the locals, though. I also don't think they're our ancestors.
Never heard that Columbus story. Even if true, so what? All cultures have myths, and one of the biggest mysteries to a non-industrialized culture would surely be the sky and the stars. I would think it was natural that a strangely dressed, strange looking person showing up out of nowhere would be considered mythological from their perspective. What does it prove? Nothing.

[defendandprotect]

45. If you don't trust Carter or Clinton, you're probably right . . .

You could also mistrust Ronald Reagan who had a 45 minute sighting of a UFO while
in a plane before he was President. Made cryptic comments at the UN about this
subject, as well.

Astronauts have seen UFO's -- doctors, lawyers, Indian Chiefs -- pilots, both commercial
and military.

And, you could also mistrust the Bible and the Vatican on this --

If you're truly interested in what you may not know, try the Discovery Project --


Meanwhile . . .

If you believe the writings of bronze age goat herders have anything more than a passing grain of reality to them, you might want to reconsider that mindset.

You know how many believe that Osama Bin Laden took the US on from a cave in Afghanistan?
With an organization - Taliban/Al Qaeda/Islamic Jihad - which we created and paid for?



:eyes:

[KatyMan]

47. Don't roll your eyes at me, young lady (IIRC)

OBL has nothing to do with the quote of mine you posted.
Yes I mistrust the bible, that was what I was referencing.
As I said, I don't doubt there are ETs, to be honest. I highly doubt they're here. All of your "proof" is hearsay.
I'll check out the Discovery Project when I get home.

[defendandprotect]

48. But you're quite sure they are NOT . . .

here --

We all mistrust the Bible, rightly so -- however, despite some heavy
going over to distort and reverse, there are still some things which make sense.
Again, the Vatican will not deny that the Bible speaks of "aliens."
They also have a lots of information on the UFO/ET subject which they seem to want
to release, but other forces seem to not want them to release.

Also, most of us know that OBL was in the employ of our own government and CIA --

"Only fools never doubt" --

Shakespeare


:)

[KatyMan]

49. Sure, there's some history in the Bible

I'm no scholar, but I don't think it would qualify as an historical record.
I don't understand why you keep bringing OBL into this.
The Vatican not denying 'aliens' is like that Glen Beck meme going around.

[defendandprotect]

50. It doesn't qualify as anything . ..

except male propaganda --

however, what looks like aliens in the Bible is no denied by the Vatican.

That means that "guards of the universe" may have been confused with "gods of the

universe" . . . for one?

As for OBL, do you believe Bush's official myth of 9/11?

Do you understand that the US/CIA not only created Taliban/Al Qaeda and funded it with

hundreds of millions of dollars up to 9/11 and possibly beyond -- but we also created

the Islamic JIHAD movement in Middle East -- ???

Vatican = Glenn Beck?

I didn't know that!

[KatyMan]

53. well,

no offense, defendandprotect, but I don't think you're capable of having a rational debate. I've read your stuff in the dungeon, and appreciate being skeptical of gov't 'information', but truly, I don't think you've addressed any point that I've made, you seem stuck on your points, reiterating them over and over without providing any links as to their validity. I'm happy to debate the subject, as I think there are a lot of issues that are, shall we say, mysterious, but you're not helping your cause by bringing up non sequitors over and over again.

[defendandprotect]

54. Perhaps I missed giving you the links . . . ? Here they are --

FIRST PART OF THIS DEALS WITH HOW US/CIA CREATED TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA . . .
TO BAIT RUSSIANS INTO AFGHANISTAN . . .!!!


SECOND PART DEALS WITH THE TEXTBOOKS --



The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Q: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Q: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

http://www.takeoverworld.info/brzezinski_i... ...


---------------------------------------------------

SECOND PART --


The US spent $100's of millions shooting down Soviet helicopters yet didn't spend a penny helping Afghanis rebuild their infrastructure and institutions.

They also spent millions producing jihad preaching, fundamentalist textbooks and shipping them off to Afghanistan. These were the same text books the Western media discussed in shocked tones and told their audiences were used by fundamentalist teachers to brainwash their charges and to inculcate in young Afghanis a jihad mindset, hatred of foreigners and non-Muslims etc.


Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal?

Or perhaps I should say, "Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal that's waiting to happen?"

Because it has been almost unreported in the Western media that the US government shipped, and continues to ship, millions of Islamist textbooks into Afghanistan.

Only one English-speaking newspaper we could find has investigated this issue: the Washington Post. The story appeared March 23rd.

Washington Post investigators report that during the past twenty years the US has spent millions of dollars producing fanatical schoolbooks, which were then distributed in Afghanistan.

"The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books..." -- Washington Post, 23 March 2002 (1)

According to the Post the U.S. is now "...wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful

strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism."

So the books made up the core curriculum in Afghan schools. And what were the unintended consequences? The Post reports that according to unnamed officials the schoolbooks "steeped a generation in violence."

How could this result have been unintended? Did they expect that giving fundamentalist schoolbooks to schoolchildren would make them moderate Muslims?

Nobody with normal intelligence could expect to distribute millions of violent Islamist schoolbooks without influencing school children towards violent Islamism. Therefore one would assume that the unnamed US officials who, we are told, are distressed at these "unintended consequences" must previously have been unaware of the Islamist content of the schoolbooks.

But surely someone was aware. The US government can't write, edit, print and ship millions of violent, Muslim fundamentalist primers into Afghanistan without high officials in the US government approving those primers.

http://www.tenc.net/articles/jared/jihad.h...

[KamaAina]

35. Looks like that "defense of astrology" ship has already sailed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=245

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

46. Hadn't see that one. . . however . . .

think of how many people believe literally in the Bible -- !!

Satan, Devil, Hell -- !!

Male superiority -- !!

[Codeine]

44. Oh my goodness.

I thought all the woo had concentrated on GD -- I had no idea how many whack-a-doodles there were in the other forums. Yowza. That's an amazing thread.

[provis99]

51. yeah, it makes the gun nut forum look sane.

That really says something.

[TexasObserver]

41. Next you'll be saying that "healing energy" really isn't healing energy.

But seriously, yeah, the moon worshippers have taken the yaya sisterhood a bit too far.

[Echo In Light]

43. POLANSKI!!!

[NoPasaran]

52. Some folks don't cotton to this science thing

And would prefer we do our exploring the old fashioned way. Let's send up a rocket loaded with conquistadors, missionaries and smallpox.

[Confusious]

56. No, this is the 21st century

They would prefer we do our exploring the new age way. Let's send up a rocket loaded with mystics, shamans and "healing energy"

[gleaner]

55. I think we just want ...

it to remain intact for when we need to go out and bay at something. The moon is the traditional baying target. In fact I may go out tomorrow when it is up and bay at it myself. These are not the best of times.