Have you ever shot a gun?

[trumad]

Have you ever shot a Glock 45 or a 9M?

I have and many times....at Gun ranges of course. I gotta tell you--- These types of guns aren't easy to hit something with. They're powerful and from longer distances your chances of hitting a target are cut down dramatically.

In the movie Unforgiven--- There was a part at the end when William 'Bill' Munny played by Clint Eastwood went into the bar to kill all the bad guys. He walks in and and starts firing and they started firing back. They missed him because they were scared shitless. He wasn't and he killed them all. He was a cold blooded killer and the others were not. This made a big difference when the shooting started because shattered nerves made them miss the target---er Munny.

What this guy did today if indeed he was the lone gunman was, dare I say, unreal. His victims had to be literally paralyzed with fear. I've seen a couple of posts here on DU from folks who wonder why the VT kids didn't fight back. When you're that scared, you don't move. You keep your head down and pray to God the killer leaves or the cops come and take him out.

33 human beings---killed by one guy in less than an hour. Think about that.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105695/

[Richard Steele]

1. Yes.

[paparush]

2. I have fired both, at targets, at an indoor firing range. Back in 1991.

[billbuckhead]

21. Thousands of times, was on the rifle team for awhile til i turned my life over to football

We used to shoot "whistle pigs" to practice for deer season. Groundhogs, the "other" green meat. I had a sister and a niece both kill big bucks on their first day hunting. Both when they were very young teenagers, much to the chagrin of some of the men in the family. I come from a family of very good hunters and athletes. Some have been in law enforcement. We're all against concealed carry, assault type semiautomatic rifles, big sniper guns and for registration. The thinking is like that of a Yankee driving in a snowstorm in a southern city. You might half assed be able to drive on snow covered roads, but you damn sure know most of the other people can't drive in the snow. The average person can't be trusted with guns, either technically, emotionally or morally.

[NuttyFluffers]

120. "thinking like a yankee driving in a snowstorm in a southern city" lol!

oh gawd, i can't tell you how much this cracked me up. being from california there's certain areas of the state that garners its own driving due to the weather. in areas where it snows or rains a lot they know to avoid the roads when it's tourist season and inclement weather. why? because they know damn well the 'weekend warriors' are used to driving in their neck of the woods and are only going to be a hazard to life and limb in rain or snow. or kinda like folks coming from the country and driving country style in the city. just a little construction or traffic sends 'em all in a tizzy and away they go.

reminds me of a friend ranting about people who don't know how to drive in rain, "it's like they're all 'shit! it's raining! i better drive 30 mph over the speed limit to get home faster and weave between the raindrops so my wheels don't hit wet pavement and lose control!'"

[onehandle]

3. Too bad they didn't all have guns.

NRA propaganda says that this would have solved everything.

[orleans]

53. they haven't been able to identify four kids in the critical care unit

because they don't carry id

and the nra thinks they should start carrying a gun?

how weird is that!

[Alexander]

106. Yeah, the school being a "gun-free zone" really worked out, didn't it?

:eyes:

[Alexander]

107. Self-delete

[Matsubara]

4. Yeah, I briefly owned a pistol after the LA riots

But an accidental discharge in the house one time, and accidentally leaving it in the moving van glove compartment for the next renters to find made me realize that it

was more responsibility than I wanted to have so I sold it back to the gun shop.

I bought it out of post-riot anxiety, but it never really made me feel safer anyway. Glad to be rid of it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. You are a responsible citizen, and don't let any nutcase tell you otherwise. -nt

[Greyhound]

122. On behalf of resposible gun owners, thank you. n/t

[benEzra]

134. That was the right decision for you; you'll get no criticism from me.

It speaks well of you that you are honest enough with yourself to evaluate what works for you, and what doesn't.

[SmokingJacket]

5. Nope.

I hate guns. I know people who died from guns -- suicide, accident -- but not a person who was saved by them.

A drunk stranger came stumbling into my bedroom once. If I had a gun, I'd have shot him. If he had a gun, he might have shot me. But neither of us did, so I pushed him out the door, and he got to live and I didn't have to have a guilty conscience.

[demgurl]

6. I've fired a gun.

I was a member of our shooting range group in college. I still have a bronze badge for my proficiency at hitting a target while in prone position. It has been a long time since I have shot a gun but this administration has made me think long and hard about purchasing one. I would already have one if I did not have kids.

[Irreverend IX]

7. His effiency was frightening.

Most mass murders can't rack up anything approaching this kind of death toll. Maybe it's because he was able to block the only exit from the classroom he attacked.

[SayWhatYo]

24. You know, I really hope he doesn't turn out to be a vet...

I didn't think about that until I read this thread and your post.

[MGD]

118. Even if he wasn't, you know that will be next.

I was discussing this with the family over lunch yesterday. there are going to be some majorly fucked up individuals entering society over the next decade. It's only a matter of time. Hell, Timothy McVeigh was an Iraq war vet.

[NightWatcher]

9. I thought that was a bit much myself

He supposedly had two 9mm.s with a bunch of spare mags. I've tried to shoot double fisted and it's hard, even if you are less than 15 yards away to hit that many targets and with such fatality.

[Bjornsdotter]

17. Question....

Would his "accuracy" rate increase because the students were confined in a relatively small area (classroom)?

cheers

[NightWatcher]

33. not to be morbid, but his fatality rate was 2 kills to 1 injured

2 to 1 for anyone who is not a trained marksman is insanely good- if "good" fits. Even if he was spraying, he would have hit just as many legs and hands and extremities as he had fatal shots. If when the total number of rounds comes out and he has a shoot to kill rate of greater than 4:1 (four rounds fired per death), I've never heard of such a rate.

Please pardon my morbidity, I am a former criminal special investigator and have learned to seperate myself from the emotions somewhat (if you can do that). I cried for these kids today, then I got curious as to the details.

[Bjornsdotter]

47. Thank-you

Not being an expert on guns I really had no idea.

I appreciate your response and I understand about having to separate yourself from emotions in order to do your job. I think we've all cried at some point today.

Thanks for taking the time to help me put this in perspective.


:hug:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

64. I have been wondering about that all day.

I own a Les Baer Custom, Thunder Ranch 1911. The gun is guaranteed to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards. The gun may be capable of that, but I am happy to get anywhere near the bullseye at 25 yards. So, the question is, was this guy professionally trained? Nobody shoots that well without some training.

[NightWatcher]

69. plus, our 1911's only hold 7 at a time

this double fister was mad accurate. Why did we lose the 10 capacity per mag laws?

[benEzra]

140. Because raising the price on full-capacity mags was so unpopular

Why did we lose the 10 capacity per mag laws?

Because raising the price on full-capacity mags was so unpopular that we lost the House AND the Senate over it.

The "ban" didn't outlaw full-cap mags, though, just raised prices. My wife paid over $100 for a Glock 19 magazine (15 rounds) in 1997 or so. Rifle magazines weren't affected by the law, thankfully ($5.99/20, $8.99/30 during the "ban").

The Columbine killers' primary weapons had capacities of 2 rounds and 4-6 rounds, respectively, and the Trolley Square shooter had a 3-round bird shotgun (shot 2, reloaded 2 with one still in the chamber, IIRC). If you have more than one gun, capacity is irrelevant.

this double fister was mad accurate

Regarding the accuracy, I suspect this jerkoff was shooting people at arm's length. All accounts are he was shooting slowly and deliberately, like the Luby's shooter. And I doubt he was shooting both guns at one time, rather than pulling a Lara Croft; the Luby's shooter used one gun at a time, and used the full gun to cover himself while changing mags.

[jgraz]

97. Could his ammo have something to do with it?

Apparently the reason they can't identify him is that he blew his head off. A had a friend who committed suicide with a 9mm and he wasn't nearly that messed up. I was thinking that this guy might have been shooting some seriously nasty shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. 4:1 ratio

I have speculaetd all day that this might be a terrorist attack.

to do that you require some good training damn it

And as you... I am a former EMS worker, so I did separate my profesional persona from my regular persona

[papau]

19. True - I can not hit a barn door double fisted. n/t

n/t

[SayWhatYo]

26. same here, heh...

[youthere]

29. He was close range in a crowded lecture hall...

not a lot of talent required to rack up a lot of hits in that scenario.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

63. Well, if he had a gun in each hand...

And was not shooting from any stance that was the Weaver or a variant thereof, then yes, that is pretty hard to do. Ask any cop, with a lot of training and who has been in a combat situation how easy it is to hit someone. From what I understand, it ain't.

[Big Pappa]

10. It

makes you wonder if these kids had rushed him, they could have easily subdued him. Fear is a strange thing. In some it makes them perform superhuman feats in others it just paralyzes.

[Greyhound]

145. Because we live in a "get yours, screw everybody else" society?

Nobody was willing to be the first, or next, killed to save the others?

We are raised with the tenet that it is somebody else's problem until it effects you directly, and when it does we know that there is no help available, you're on your own.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. This one, at a Brazilian Army firing range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

[papau]

12. From 50 feet it is no big deal - Old age makes me shake a bit but I still

have 4 inch diameter circle 4 shot clusters into 6 targets in 60 seconds with a 9mm - but it was me not moving and only slight angle changes as to target.

Granted it was not for real, so zero emotion. Throw in emotions and target movement and I do not know how I'd do - and I do not want to find out.

As for victim reaction - again I have no clue never having been unarmed with a gunman firing at me. I hope I would run rather than wait for the slaughter.

[trumad]

15. I think 4 escaped by running...

I'd like to think I'd run to.

[papau]

27. We would see if old and fat can run quickly without a heart attack :-) I'm

pretty sure joint pain and gout would go away for the duration of the run!

[sendero]

13. I own a glock..

... .40 S&W. It packs a punch and it is LOUD. You'd better be wearing ear protection if you are firing it indoors, or outdoors for that matter.

As for hitting anything, it is true that a weapon like that has a fairly limited range even if you are experienced and collected.

From the description a shaved female gave on the news, it was probably something like a glock. She said it was black and plastic. There are several firearms that fit that description.

At least the monster had the decency to finish himself off as well.

[cwydro]

14. I have

and he must have been damn good with a 9mm.

[Pavulon]

16. You are correct

it is difficult to hit moving people with a sidearm. Very difficult.

When I heard that number earlier I was sure the shooter would have used a semi auto rifle or shotgun. I assumed the person had(s) infantry training.

I would speculate that those shot were hit at close range, execution style.

Terribly sad.

Bottom line, you hear shots, bug the fuck out. Even if I have a sidearm I am not involving myself in a conflict, no way to know who the actors are.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

44. More importantly, Listening to a cop on Steph Mller tonight

If a cop shows up at an incident like this and six people have guns, witch one does the cop take out? I love my guns but I sure understand the argument.

[Greyhound]

125. I heard that and wanted to call in so bad. The point he over-looked

is that the cops rarely show up while anything is still happening.

[Greyhound]

124. I'm sure you're right.

I'm avoiding most of the crap today as it will turn out to be wrong, but I'm sure your assessment is right, he was just walking up and shooting those kids point-blank.

All this talk about skill and nerves is just so much BS, he was a psycho on a rampage and there was nobody to stop him.

[sakabatou]

18. No

And I hope to never use one.

[Junkdrawer]

20. The story gets curiouser and curiouser...

So the killer planned the spree for months, phones in bomb threats to test security responses, carries chains and locks to trap his victims, then kills his girlfriend ON CAMPUS TWO HOURS before he implements the rest of his plan. :wtf:

I have a really great calculator, but I tell ya...

THIS DOES NOT ADD UP.

[SayWhatYo]

30. man, I wish I was calculator salesman right now...

*I don't have a point... just thinking it would be funny if someone came in and went into a whole spiel about why the calculator they sell is superior to all the others.

[baldguy]

22. Hunting a few times when I was younger.

And I was on my high school pistol team.

Some people can understand what a bullet can do, most don't and talk out of their ass.

[dysfunctional press]

23. i've fired guns, but i never shot one...

what did those glocks do to piss you off at them so much...?

i remember getting knocked to the ground by my uncles 30.06 when i was a kid...that gun pissed me offf- but i still didn't want to see it dead.

[Lex]

43. You've fired guns?

Why, were they not living up to their job expectations?

Now they have have to go look for other employment.

Maybe they can collect unemployment from you.

[Cleita]

25. My DH and I owned guns, just rifles of various calibers.

When we lived in the northwest it seemed almost natural to own guns and to know that your neighbor owned guns. We never used ours for hunting but target shooting, a recreational pastime, really. However, when we moved back to California we got rid of our guns and never looked back. I don't feel any safer having a gun because I wouldn't want my guns to fall into the wrong hands and be used against me or somebody else. My family and I do our security in a different way and without guns although my son-in-law is a collector. However, he keeps his collection in a gun safe away from our home.

[and-justice-for-all]

28. Yes, we actually have 7 guns in the house..

...But we have no kids and my husband is a Cop.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

31. I once hit a twig I used as a target

with a 22 rifle without a scope at 300 yrds. It was an awesome feeling. Then, I hit a target about the size of a quarter at 50 yrds. well, 4 out of 10, and that felt really good. But I had practiced, I controlled my breath, I squeezed, not pulled and I took my time again and again and agin. And those were the best shots in my life.

It is damned hard to hit anything with a handgun. I still laugh at the video of the client trying to shoot his attorney behind a thin tree. No more than 7 feet away, and missed him with at least 10 shots. damn that was sad/funny/ horrible/hillarian.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

32. Yes, I love shooting my guns.

And yes, you are correct. Accuracy with a handgun, especially under high stress applications is, at best, difficult. This is why you read Police reports where 50 shots were fired and only three hit the suspect. I have no idea what happened today or why. I can only tell you that it would be far better to ban presidents than handguns, if deathrate counts.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. Yes - a very heavy one - it ain't easy.

I had to do it for work to investigate our firing range. It was hard to lift the gun - much less hit the target.

[Colobo]

35. No, and I don't plan to.

[unsavedtrash]

36. yes

I have several guns. But they are stored with guns of other family members at my mother's home. Regardless of our ages, we have to let her know when we get a gun and what we plan to do with it. It has been like this since before I got my first one at 10.

[DemoTex]

37. Yes, but I am not proud of the fact.

M-14 ..... EXPERT
M-16 ..... EXPERT
38 REV ... EXPERT
45 ....... SHARPSHOOTER

So I carried a 38 revolver with me on my deep Laos missions. Five tracer rounds and one hollow point. Figure that out.

Mac

[Squatch]

40. Were you an aviator?

[DemoTex]

48. Yep.

250+ combat missions, most over the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos at night. But I ran two convoys in Viet Nam, too. I should have a CIB from the shit we ran into on that first run from Nha Trang to Cam Rahn.

[Squatch]

54. Bird dog?

Were you a FAC?

[DemoTex]

62. No. I was a spook. I was a ECW guy .. TOP-SECRET CRYPTO.

"Two turnin' .. two burnin'"

[Squatch]

67. Ah...they call that "Electronic Attack" nowadays.

And damned if this artilleryman knows what in the hell that's all about. :)

[DemoTex]

72. What I Know I Cannot Say ..

I was with the ASA (Army Security Agency) .. we called it XYZ in Viet Nam.

[Squatch]

38. I shoot in practical shooting competitions with pistols

In these competitions, you have to move, shoot, reload, crouch, duck, lean, etc. I do OK (definitely not a contender in most competitions), but I've got YEARS of experience.

I have a feeling that this guy was met with people who were totally compliant to his posture as a person with 2 guns. Either do what he says, cower in a corner, or get shot. Unfortunately, it appears as if that's what happened in this tragedy.

[catnhatnh]

39. Yes and No...

but have fired military stuff including the .45 and owned both rifles and handguns.That said I have an (occasionally) real bad temper and also occasionally drink WAY too much.So I took my weapons away over 20 years ago and have only shot with friends and their equipment a few times since.The fact however, that the state would have no problem leaving people like me in the possesion of firearms scares the shit out of me.

[KoKo]

41. I keep trying to post what you say....but no one listens. Eveyone's a Rambo

who thinks that college students caught unawares should be prepared with their own gun blazing or with "tackle skills" ready to bring the Psycho down.

It's amazing....must be folks who watch too many movies.

[Common Sense Party]

60. I think the nitwit reporters at the Virginia Tech news conference

have seen WAAAAAAY too many movies.

They kept asking idiotic things, basically along the lines of: "Why wasn't this all resolved and taken care of in the first two minutes?"

At every stupid question, I would roll my eyes heavenward and wonder what perfect world these people must inhabit.

It was freaking chaos, you morons!

[Tin Man]

81. word and word.

everyone is an expert - after the fact.

[jhrobbins]

42. My cousin-a big gun enthusiast-thought I needed a gun and he sent me

a 357 magnum from his collection (he did it through legal channels) and he told me oover and over to go to a gun range and get used to it. I have yet to get there, but I do feel strangely safer because I have this humoungous firearm. If someone was breaking into my house, I would probably be so nervous I would shoot my dog or my partner, so I need to get to the range.


I did shoot a 22 rifle when I was like 9 or 10, but lost interest in them.

[trumad]

45. Just shoot at the roof

trust me---the sound will scare em off easily.

[H2O Man]

46. Yes.

I have.

[Azathoth]

49. Shooting double-fisted with any accuracy is almost impossible

I can't say I've tried it, but I have tried shooting a single Beretta 9mm one-handed for a period of time, and it ain't easy. Sadly though, when you've got people cornered, it's not hard to walk up to them and execute them. Marksmanship ain't too important in a crowded classroom with people cowering in the corner. :(

[jgraz]

99. Did someone say he was shooting double-fisted?

Or did he just carry two handguns?

[Azathoth]

104. It's not clear, but the impression I've gotten is that he was carrying both guns at once

and was shooting double-fisted (or at least alternating one arm to the other). I could, of course, be wrong.

[jgraz]

105. Doesn't fit with the recordings we've heard

The audio from today makes it sound a lot more like carefully aimed shots rather than two-fisted spraying.

[Azathoth]

109. I haven't heard any prolonged recording...I heard a brief clip where there were 2 shots

followed by a short pause, followed by a lot more in quick succession.

Trey Perkins, who was in a German class in Norris Hall, told The Washington Post the gunman barged into the room about 9:50 a.m. and fired 30 shots in about 90 seconds.

http://blog.masslive.com/breakingnews/2007/04/wmass_students_tell_of_college.html

I don't think he was firing wildly, but he was definately going fast.

[jgraz]

110. Well, this is all speculation on my part

The fact is that I don't know shit about what really went on. I'm gonna hold the rest of my comments until we get some solid facts. (I know, it's not the DU way, but that's what I'm gonna do ;) )

[Azathoth]

111. Agreed.

It will be interesting to find out what really happened in there.

[ismnotwasm]

50. Yes

And I've also have one pointed at me.

[KharmaTrain]

51. I Got A Real Demostration

I served on a jury involving a gun case...and specifically the easy sale and transfer of 9mm semi-autos like the Glock of the. My only experience with guns was shooting a .22 as a kid and once attempting to shoot a shotgun (my shoulder is still sore from that episode over 35 years ago) and had seen other guns over the years, but the Glock is something else. It's efficiently lethal and cheap. It was the gun of choice of the "gangbangers" and gun runners, but they're definitely not a starter pistol.

Part of the trial was a taped demo of the gun's power and then one was passed around. These are highly efficient and cheap (IRC, we saw a $350-400 price tag on these) killers. They were also easy to traffic on the black market. Add to that that thanks to his assholiness allowing the Assualt Weapons ban to expire, it's easy to get expanded clips. It's too early to anaylize specifics here, but the Glock would easily do the job here...easy to hide, quick to reload and incredibly lethal.

[LisaL]

52. Yes. I was actually trained on how to use a weapon in school.

[orleans]

55. have i ever shot a gun? no no no no no no no.....no. n/t

[Skittles]

56. I was trained to shoot in the military

yes INDEED....and I have thought about it many times and I think I would refuse to cower in fear - I'd rush the SOB thinking even if I got killed, more people could escape...but that's just me

[TahitiNut]

57. D'uhh ...

:freak:

[Jackpine Radical]

58. H'm. Have I ever shot a gun?

Well, a .22 rifle. Actually, a number of .22 rifles.
And of course a couple of 12 ga. shotguns. And, come to think of it, a few 20-ga. guns and a 28 ga. I used to shoot a friend's .410 too.
And some pistols. Maybe a dozen .22 pistols, a few .357's, a few .38's, a .380 auto, and a few military .45 autos.
Deer rifles, of course. A .35 Remington, a few .30-30's, a few .30-06's, a .257 Roberts, a .22-250, a .270, stuff like that.
And miscellaneous things. A .30 Carbine, an illegal 28-ga. shot pistol.
And naturally an M-60 machine gun or two. A Browning .50 cal. machine gun. An M-14 rifle and a number of M-16's. An M-79 grenade launcher. Oh--and a few 106mm Jeep-mounted recoilless rifles.

Somebody once asked me if I had ever thrown a hand grenade in anger. The best answer I could give was, Not really, but I did throw several while in a state of shitless panic.

Other than that, I have very little experience with firearms.

[Dukkha]

59. just fired an M4 last Saturday

I do pretty good with it in a controlled environment in the range comfortable shooting a target. In a real firefight i'm sure my nerves would be totally frayed and I wouldn't be able to shoot worth shit. I know that a big part of military training is how to cope with the stresses of battle.

[Squatch]

65. It's all S.P.O.R.T.S.....

Slap the magazine in the magazine well
Pull the charging handle
Observe the chamber
Release charging handle
Tap the forward assist
Shoot

[Pavulon]

73. Haven't heard that in a while..

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. A high school boyfriend took me target shooting once

It was okay, but I had no interest in doing it again.

[jcrew2001]

66. My town in upstate NY has lots of republicans

and my friend is a RW but I enjoyed talking to him about politics in HS cuz I'm an open-minded independent thinker and he took me to his family ranch and we shot some shotguns at targets. Strong recoil, but the shotgun spray wasn't as dangerous as I had feared. A good learning experience, but I won't make a habit of shooting guns.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

68. Yes. My curiosity is on the ammunition.

Was he packing on that, or WHAT?!?!

[B Calm]

70. I grew up shooting guns.. The only administration known to grab citizens

guns is the republican Bush administration.. Remembering New Orleans......

[Hardrada]

71. Yes, pistols, rifles, shotguns out in the woods.

But was not interested enough in that sort of thing to pursue it. My brother was a serious hunter but he gave it up quite awhile ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. No

[JanMichael]

75. Yes I have and I've been thinking how unreal the total was.

I hate to say it but it almost had to be someone trained very thoroughly with weapons. Military, police, whatever but not your "average Joe" wannabe killer.

33 killed and some 15 seriously injured (in surgery?)? That's almost impossible to imagine how one person can do it.

Unbelievable...

[whistle]

79. Then at the end of it he shoot himself....certain this is unreal

....We need answers, but these are very slow in coming

[Redstone]

76. Shot various types of them and killed fellow human beings with same. Also been shot with one

myself (not the specific pistols you mentioned, but still). Those experiences took all the glory and romance out of the concept or firearms for me, not that I went into the situation with any feeling of glory or romance for weapons anyway.

For me, never again. Others may disagree.

Redstone

[magellan]

77. Yes, in the military

Not since, and that was quite a while ago. It was a Magnum, I think. Heavy gun. I did good but disliked the experience about as much as having to suck in tear gas on purpose.

Hubby and I would be less comfortable owning one than not so we don't. Even for protection, guns are about violence and that's something we don't feel a need to focus on in our lives.

[liberal N proud]

78. A few times when I was a teenager

My dad was into hunting and fishing back then. My brothers all got the fever from him, I tried it but it just wasn't my thing.
My brothers all enlisted, not me, It was just not my thing.

They few times I did shoot the gun, 12 gage shot gun, there just wasn't any thrill.

I think the biggest part was hunting was associated with wearing warm clothes to walk across open fields in the late autumn early winter in Iowa, makes me cold just thinking about it.

Don't own a gun, don't ever care if I do.

[HeeBGBz]

80. Yes, in the Army and as a civilian.n/t

[durrrty libby]

82. I hate guns and the idiots who love them

[Blue_In_AK]

83. .357 and shotgun

when I was training to be a correctional officer. I wasn't very good. I always figured if I had to ever go after somebody with a shotgun, it would be scary enough for them just having some crazy woman (me) shooting over their shoulder. That's about as close as I could get to hitting the target.

Hey, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

[Duppers]

Surprisingly I'm for gun control

Have I ever shot a Glock 45 or a 9M?

Yes, a 45. It's a scary weapon. I own one and a 25M too.

I carried the little 25 in my purse for the months I worked for a construction company. My hubby had bought it for me. One day I was glad I had it.
I was working late, doing Friday evening payroll to turn into the home office. One sob employee sped into the parking lot and knocked on the office door. I opened it to see what he needed and knew he was drunk right away....yes, a big mistake and you can guess what he wanted. I ask him to leave, but he barged in---I then had NO doubt about his intent then.
I tried to act calm, thinking perhaps some conversation would calm him down and while talking, I managed to sit down behind my desk and reach into my purse. I was SHAKING when I held the loaded weapon with both hands and pointed it at him. I've never been so scared in my life. It was enough to scare him too and he backed out the door and almost fell down the step. I gave a description of him and his car to the police and had him arrested. He spent the weekend in jail for DUI. I didn't press any charges because I didn't know how vindictive he would have been. My boss fired him of course. It was a too-rough environment for me; I quit some weeks later.


Hand guns? I believe in permits with through background checks. Then one should have adequate training in order to use the weapon proficiently.

[femmedem]

130. That is quite a story, Duppers.

You are one quick thinker in an emergency.

[Duppers]

84. delete

double posted. sorry.

[derby378]

85. I have - but not pistols

I've fired Uzis, MAK-90s, and other rifles and carbines. Never pistols, though. I'm actually a little nervous about pistols, which is probably a good thing, although I really should learn to fire one and become halway proficient with it. Probably a 1911-model would be best - I know Glocks are fine, but I really think a gun needs a safety. That's just me.

[benEzra]

137. That was why I chose the S&W Ladysmith--I like having a manual safety. (n/t)

[alarimer]

86. No and I never will

Not even for hunting. I am just not into that. I won't have them around me either.

I have decided that if anyone ever tries to rob me, with a gun or a knife, I am going to give them exactly what they ask for. They can have all my money, credit cards, they can even rape me. Nothing is worth dying over. I will NOT resist because that only makes them more dangerous. Sorry if that sounds too passive. I just figure it's better to live to fight another day.

Now I have no idea how I would respond if I saw someone shot or if I saw something like what happened today. Somehow, though, I just doubt that arming everyone else is not the answer.

[kineneb]

87. yes, "antique" Luger, .357 pistols, misc. rifles,

mostly antique models. I like historic weapons, including the ones that don't go "bang"...I am really fond of my Renaissance flanged mace and 7' medieval spear. And, no, I have no intention of ever using any of my collection on something living (unless I get really hungry, or someone is trying to kill me).

[guitar man]

88. All my life

I grew up on a farm, there were plenty of rifles, shotguns and pistols to shoot, Dad has quite a collection. I was taught from a young age to respect the weapons and that they are not toys, but something deadly.

Did a hitch in the USMC, qualified Expert on rifle and pistol, so yeah, I'm pretty effing deadly accurate with just about anything.

But, for all the idiots that want everybody to just "carry a gun",
I will re-iterate what I said before. It is NOT A FUCKING TOY!! You're not in the movies, it's real life. If you don't have proper training and a fair amount of range time in, you are most likely going to be more of a hazard to innocent bystanders than a help to anyone.

Do I believe in a armed citizenry, the "well regulated militia"? You bet I do. I just want to see a "well trained militia" in that the citizens that are carrying guns are proficient with them before they are licensed to do so. There is still no guatantee of how anyone would react in a given situation, but being proficient with their arms is a good start.

[MilesColtrane]

89. What some posters here are citing as this madman's amazing accuracy...

was probably not the case.

I have read two seperate stories from eyewitnesses that say that some students had been lined up and executed at close range in one case, and that the killer returned to a classroom to finish off the wounded in another.

[Schema Thing]

93. Yes, I've thought all day that he must have

been putting the gun up to victim's heads to kill that many people.

[Mike Daniels]

90. Fired one at a police shooting range one time

when I was part of the Explorers.

It was incredible to see how hard it was to draw an accurate hit on the stationary target from just a few yards away with no pressure on you.

I can't imagine trying to shoot something that's moving when you're all keyed up on whatever may be going down at a particular moment.

[Critters2]

91. Never fired a gun. Never intend to. nt

[knitter4democracy]

92. Yes, and the kickback's a bi^%.

I was a kid, though. Almost knocked me off my feet. I have a hard time imagining someone being accurate with a handgun after that. Shotgun, yeah. Rifle, even, yeah. Handgun? That takes lots of determination and practice.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

95. I damn near took my finger off with the kickback on a shotgun. one time

I was holding it wrong, I guess. My middle finger was swollen and purple for days. I think I might have broken it. Shooting from the hip. I did better holding the butt against my shoulder.

[knitter4democracy]

98. I'm still amazed at the power of those things.

Our soldiers' shoulders must be darn sore from their guns. I remember watching my mom at target practice and hunting with bird shot and watching her try to deal with it. It's not like the movies, that's for sure.

[benEzra]

138. Modern military weapons don't recoil much...

the M16 is .22 caliber (.223, aka 5.56x45mm), and recoil is negligible. WW2/Korean War infantry weapons were larger caliber and kicked much worse.

Shotguns do kick like heck, though, and there's a reason. A 12-gauge shotgun is .729 caliber (ouch).

[mrreowwr_kittty]

94. Had to qualify in the military

Just on a .45 and a 12 gauge shotgun. The first time I shot the handgun the noise and the kick really startled me. I could barely get through it. I cried afterwards. With more practice I got comfortable with it and got good at shooting at targets. I got a ribbon for accuracy. But I never forgot that it's a powerful instrument with incredible destructive potential. I'll never understand people thinking of guns as toys or shooting as recreation. Not slamming anyone who does, though.

[slackmaster]

96. It takes practice to hit targets with any firearm

Handguns in particular require a great deal of it. From what I have read about today's incident, the shooter was like a machine.

And not a trace of humanity in him.

[flying_monkeys]

100. The survivor of the German class I saw on CNN

said the shooter opened the door twice, then started firing, left, came back 30 seconds later, fired again, left, and at that point the ones unhurt blocked the door so he couldn't get back in and the shooter fired through the door at them, hitting most of the rest.


It doesn't sound like it took much markmanship or skill for the shooter to mow down 30.....


To answer the OP, yes I have shot pistols but nothing bigger than a .357 - - that was hard enough for me to hang on to.

[RamboLiberal]

101. A Glock 9mm is not that hard to hit a target with at close range

which a crowded classroom would be. Look at past school shooting. Harris and Klebold at Columbine were not that skilled at gun handling though in their fake bravado video they thought they were. Those two clowns didn't even know how to correctly handle a firearm yet they killed and injured a lot of students that day.

I think this guy certainly practiced and was skilled.

And to answer your question, yes I have shot a Glock, and I've seen relative beginners shoot Glocks and other handguns in competition and do decently in hit factor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. Yes two weeks ago

and for the first time I kept my fifty rounds I shot down range IN MY TARGET at oh I think five yards, yep that bad of a shot

:-)


Did I mentiion I just started shooting?

And did I mention this is the fourth time at the range?

Oh 40 cal for me, and boy the flash still scares the living daylights out of me

As to the fear... been in shoot outs... and been shot at more than once...

Hell I once did the stupid manouver to crawl into the middle of one to grab a casualty... oh I was young and stupid... and trust me if I had allowed myself to be afraid...I would have been paralyzed extremely fast

Most folks have watched way too many movies and have really never been there to undertand

Oh the shaking after any of these, as the adrenalin went down, and cold, felt so cold that my bunker gear would not be enough... that cold realization that I could have been killed... it is something that is very hard to describe.

Oh the patient survived, so I guess it was worth it to risk my skin

[Alexander]

108. Yes, I have fired a .22 and a .357 Magnum.

The magnum damn near blew my ears off. And that was with the earmuffs.

[Daedelus76]

112. yes, I have

I've fired a 38 pistol, a Glock 9mm, and my uncle's SKS. I'm a fair shot, I know how to shoot them and I can hit things at close range (50 yards tops). I don't really know how to feel about guns. Personally, I don't like them; I don't want to own them- that's my gut reaction. But I guess people have a right to own them. Just don't play with them around me. I'm kind of repelled by the whole concept of concealed carry laws, too. I don't want everyday life turned into the wild west.

I really don't understand the deep fascination with guns. Maybe somebody can clue me in. I ride motorcycles and motor-scooters, and some people don't understand that, but it's just a way to get you from point-A-to-point-B. But guns I truely don't understand. Because their sole purpose is to hurt people. I guess I'm a bit of a pacifist at heart, even if I'd never really officially admit to it.

What's sad about my uncle is that his best friend was crippled as a child by an errant bullet. And yet this parapalegic guy still likes guns and owns several. And then his depressed wife finally ended her life with his own guns. And yet my uncle is still cool with them. He doesn't see a pattern there?

I think people have a right to smoke or drink or whatever. That doesn't mean it's good. Same with guns.

[Zookeeper]

113. No, but....

I've been thinking that I should know how, even if I have no interest in owning one. (I was thinking this before today's sad event.)

The reign of Emperor Chimpy has left me feeling like it's knowledge worth having. And I'm all about learning new skills.

[FloridaJudy]

114. Over 40 years ago

I was about 12. It was my grandfather's WWI service pistol: a Webley. The recoil damned near took my hand off, but I didn't do too badly (killed about 6 beer cans).

It's still some where in my parent's attic. Thing hasn't been cleaned in decades, so I expect anyone who tried to shoot with it now really would lose a hand, but I wonder if it's worth anything. They must have handed these out by the millions in 1916.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. It probably is

I would bring it down adn give it quite a bit of maintaince, and if you do not want it


put it in the market for a collector

[REP]

115. Glocks Are Quite Accurate

Glocks are known for their accuracy. Some shooters prefer them not for their 'gansta' appeal but for their accuracy. The recoil ont hem isn't bad; I've fired worse.

[MGD]

116. I have a Glock 21 and a Glock 21C

Both are very accurate and the recoil is much lighter than a Colt 1911. You can't really fire lead bullets through them though. That's the only drawback to the Glocks IMO.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

119. Them aint guns...

They are sidearms.

You cant carry a gun. A gun is way too large to be man-portable.

Or at least that was what my sergeant beat into my hard head 25 years ago...

[Greyhound]

121. Thousands of times for my whole life, and from your description you just don't know how to shoot.

Glocks are a very high quality sidearm and are damn accurate out to 100ft or more depending on external factors.

The .45 is a big, slow round, generally favored for the energy its mass produces (stopping power), even if you don't hit right it will sure as hell knock somebody down. The 9mm is a much lighter, high velocity round, much more accurate than the .45, but much less energy, they tend to go through.

I haven't been paying much attention yet, because in all likelihood whatever we hear today will be wrong, and the facts will come out over the next weeks, but it sure sounds like this guy was very familiar with shooting and the distances indoors are not what would be considered long range. You don't even have to use the sights at 20 ft to hit a person.

[trumad]

128. Ex-military guy who shot thousands of rounds

and was qualified as a sharp shooter...

I'm saying that shooting a Glock 20 feet away aint that easy for the untrained. If you're good at it because of your training...great. but it's because of your training.

[Greyhound]

142. Like anything else, it takes practice to be good at it.

I guess I don't understand the point you're making. Sorry.:shrug:

[Hippo_Tron]

123. Got to shoot some not so powerful rifles at camp

I think it was a .22 calibre but I can't remember exactly. They only had room for one bullet, so you had to reload after every shot. I remember that my aim sucked because I was bad at keeping one eye closed.

So I agree, this guy certainly knew what he was doing.

[tom_paine]

126. Yo TRUMAD! Ironic, isn't it, that the "bad guys" in the Unforgiven were the Good Guys

The ones wearing the stars, the ones who, other than letting the cowboys off WAAAAY too easy for their hideous crime (well, the one who did it, anyway), and the ones charged with protecting the innocent, maintaining the peace.

"I cannot abide cowards or men of low character."
--Lil' Bill Daggit

Neither can I and I'll bet my bottom dollar (unless you are the most amazing actor troll or Agent Mike ever...what a performance over time if true :rofl: ) you can't adibe 'em either, trumad.

It's one of the reasons why many (but by no means all) of us DUers are here at bottom, the things that motivated Lil' Bill and his choker marshals (who knows how they would behave in such a situation until, God Forbid, a person is IN such a situation).

We want to restore the law, or at least tone down the crazy corruption to American levels (not the Saudi Arabian levels we have now). We want these criminals and low men (& women) tried and convicted for their multiple felonies. We want justice, some measure of it, and things have progerssed too far that a tiny dose will do.

Ironic...that's all I'm sayin'.

As to today's tragedy. It is too horrific to contemplate. Unspeakable. All of those young lives with so much promise, lost to their families and friends. A thousand years of life lost today. A galaxy of pain and mourning senseless, for no reason at all.

But every month for the past 3 months, 80+ of our soldiers have died in Iraq, and 150+ Iraqis, untold more wounded. Are those lives any less mournful, any less valuable, any less snuffed out in their prime, or lost to their loved ones?

I cannot speak on this anymore. The horror of this tragedy is too fresh.

[trumad]

129. "I cannot abide cowards or men of low character."

Great quote because it was so accurate at the end You're spot on with your post and that's why it's one of my favorite movies of all-time. Hackman was brilliant as Daggett--- one scary MOFO until Munni plugged his ass.

BTW: You didn't get the meme that I am a Troll? ;-)

[MrSlayer]

127. Sure, all the time.

I'm a pretty good shot too. It's not hard to hit your target with those weapons when you are calm and focused. Quite frankly, I'm shocked no one has killed this many before. It's really not that hard.

[Thothmes]

131. Shot a gun

When I was in the service, fired M1, M14, 45acp, 3inch50, 5inch38. Target shoot with a 1903A1 Springfield. Hunt with model 70 Winchester 30-06.

[benEzra]

132. Yes. My wife owns a Glock 26 9mm, and I own a S&W 3913 Ladysmith 9mm.

And I agree that under great stress, your accuracy degrades, and you revert to your level of training/practice; if all you've ever done is stood on a square range and shot super-slowfire at stationary targets, you might freeze up. However, a lot of us have done quite a bit more than that.

The non-vets-will-always-freeze-up hypothesis has some validity, but is generally overstated; the work of Dave Grossman et al has been thoroughly debunked. The deciding factor is mindset, situational awareness, and practice; there are strong parallels to martial arts there. Otherwise, it would be pointless to issue guns to police.

BTW, your shooting-spree shooter may not be stressed at first, but he will be if someone starts shooting back, (a la Trolley Square).

[question everything]

133. I was amazed at the storiy of some students barricading

their door.

And, apparently, he did shoot at the door but at the center of it while they were off to the side.

Still wonder about the ability to do so.

[Sapere aude]

135. I use to carry a Colt 1911 45 automatic in Vietnam and couldn't hit shit from a distance.

I rode shotgun on a lot of convoys and we carried the pistol along with our rifles.

[Xenotime]

136. No and I don't want to.

Those things represent death and the ending of life. WHY the hell would I want to hold somethign like that?

[EstimatedProphet]

139. Yes, I have

Last Friday in fact...

A large caliber pistol becomes useless at around 15 yards, unless someone spends a lot of time with it. You can't just go to a store, buy a pistol (especially a .45) and expect to be a crack shot.

[tomreedtoon]

141. But his victims were college students.

They thought they were safe on their college campus, that their teachers and administrators cared about them and would not let them come to harm. The suckers.

They believed in a just and decent universe and a caring God. The fools.

They never imagined that people could be as bad as the monsters they watched in movies or the terrorists they saw on TV. The dupes.

All the above equal thirty-three clay pidgeons. The shooter may not have been Clint Eastwood, but he came prepared with a lot of ammo and was practiced in using his weapons.

What needs to change is this flower-power belief that anybody cares for you, especially the people to whom you pay money for an education. Keep your street smarts with you wherever you go. Assume that everybody else is out to hurt or kill you, because they probably are.

[liberalnurse]

143. I have a 9 mm Glock.

O8)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

144. um...

aren't glock 9 mm rather reliable and accurate handguns? Aren't they commonly used in law enforcement?

Because what you've got here is a shooter basically killing people at point blank range, in confined spaces, trapped by small writing desks, other students, etc.

I don't see anything particularly surprising.

[kwolf68]

146. Yes

Currently own about 10 guns. One pistol (Walther P-38 Germany WWII)...most of my guns are WWII collectors guns, a couple marksman target shooting guns (both .22 calib), and a couple shotguns. I haven't shot a gun in 10 years probably. Have no need really. I don't hunt anymore (haven't since I was 14 or so) and don't target shoot anymore.

I've sold any muskets I had, a couple 12-gauges and the rest of the hunting crap will be sold off as well. I'll probably keep a couple of the WWII guns and use the P-38 for protection should I need it.

[Gelliebeans]

147. Nope

and I never will. Years ago my father (a gun owner) suggested I get one for protection. I opted for a rottweiler instead and ever since then I have had a dog in my house sleeping on my bed.

He perks up an ear when the cat farts so I feel pretty safe.