Ouch! Kerry schools McCain on Constitutional War Powers

[kpete]

According to the participants, Kerry told Obama that whether to send more troops into Afghanistan was a "collective" decision, because lawmakers in both parties are prepared to help him sell it to the American people.

But McCain -- who campaigned in 2008 on the argument that he had more experience to make tough calls like this -- stood up to insist that ultimately, the commander-in-chief alone will take the heat.

When asked by a reporter after the White House meeting if this decision is a test for Obama as head of the armed forces, McCain said, "Of course it is, and I think the president is aware of it."

A spokesman for Kerry said the senator is "well-acquainted with his copy of the Constitution." But what Kerry said was once Obama reaches a decision, lawmakers "will stand collectively with the president in supporting that decision as representatives of the American people."

more:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/06/us.afghanistan/
via:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/7/790508/-Ouch!Kerry-schools-McCain-on-Constitutional-War-Powers

[spanone]

1. if kerry is counting on mccain, he'd better think again...they are looking to screw Obama every way

[still_one]

3. Obama is going to screw himself. The Afghan war is not only going to continue, but

most likely be escalated

and in 4 more years, and who knows how many more deaths, how will he justify that?

[Winterblues]

5. I would bet that it will be a campaign issue in 2012

And Obama will be saying he will end it and bring our troops home. That will be a major issue by then. Obama is a very good salesman

[seabeyond]

8. i like his pull troops out and strategic strike idea. of course kerry doesn't trust mccain

hence why saying it out loud, and keep it up. gotta take care of obama back regardless the decision obama makes.

[politicasista]

13. You would think that he does based on

the comments in this thread. He "schools" McCain, but that's not good enough for DU standards.

Just like other threads, the minute people see the name "Kerry," they swarm like locusts.

[seabeyond]

14. you know. that is right. kerry has done a lot and deserves, has earned respect

and it is really the stupid that do just take shots at kerry. and do shots they take, regardless of the fools it makes them

[politicasista]

15. Bingo! Exactly

:hi:

[politicasista]

12. He no stupid n/t

[karynnj]

25. You completely misread this gossipy article

Kerry has been holding hearings "testing the underlying assumptions" for the last several weeks. There have been 4 of them. http://foreign.senate.gov/hearing.html

The fact is that Kerry was the first person defending Obama taking time to assess what the policy should be. He has been described as one of three people outside the administration influential on this debate (Reed and Powell are the other two) Remember how Kerry spoke of fighting this in 2004? Does it sound familiar - it is counter terrorism. Biden is the main person supporting this approach.

Here, from a MA paper are Kerry comments:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20091007/NEWS/910070419/1052

The fact is I can not think of another Senator who has been willing to opening support this change in policy.

[deaniac21]

2. wake us when it's over

[blm]

7. what keeps you alert? entertaining rhetoric or real action that counts historically?

.

[deaniac21]

9. this is less than nothing

[blm]

10. not the point.....you take shots at Kerry all the time as if his service has never meant anything

to this nation. However....you have yet to name one lawmaker who has contributed more to this nation's actual historic record than John Kerry has the last 4 decades.

And I'd make that challenge to Jon Stewart and his entire staff of SchumerClinton asskissers, too.

[deaniac21]

16. I know, he has the hat.

[karynnj]

27. That goes too far

The fact is that Kerry has been out working on getting the policy right, holding hearings and he is a leading influence on Obama. This comes not because of his genuine heroism in Vietnam - and he really is a highly decorated veteran, but from his 24 years on the Senate Foreign Relations committee. Now, if you want to repeat RW smears, explain how someone who avoided service for a bad back, spent a considerable period of time skiing!

As regards to this, the only time I have heard Dean speak on Afghanistan was before McChrsytal's report and he had no problems with the then current situation. (Kerry was FAR more concerned)

[ProSense]

30. What would these posters do if they couldn't ascribe imaginary positions to their favorite Dems?

Dean: I’m going to continue to be supportive of the president on Afghanistan.

Kerry works continually and consistently to make strong case against war and is effective in moving the debate and legislation. It doesn't matter what the armchair quarterbacks and the chronic complainers say.

[karynnj]

32. Thank you!!!

I looked but couldn't find that link (or a similar one).

[deaniac21]

34. Got it

[ProSense]

37. Nice photo. When are you going to get over the fact that Dean didn't win the 2004 primary?

Another Presidential election has come and gone. It's time.

[deaniac21]

40. I don't trust the obscenely rich.

[Bumblebee]

4. Nothing Kerry does causes "ouch!" -- unfortunately. He does not "school,"

he lectures. As Jon Stewart pointed out, it's painful to watch him trying to make a long-winded point.

[blm]

6. Stewart prefers Kerry be entertaining and won't applaud the facts of Kerry's actual record

of contributions. Yet...Stewart rightly berated Crossfire for treating tough issues as entertainment.

Gee - does Stewart want Kerry to be his monkey?

Stewart's production offices need to rid themselves of all their Clinton and Schumer office pals - those alliances have skewed their thinking, especially against Kerry.

[politicasista]

11. "Clinton, Schumer office pals"?

May be onto something there. Really. :)

[karynnj]

31. Jon Steward is a comedian

The fact is that he will say almost anything for a joke and like most comedy, stereotypes - often painted by the opposition - are the standard. I actually watched the Finance committee hearings on healthcare - on the public option and otehr measures, Kerry's comments were direct, sharp and compelling.


As to war, it is hard to beat:

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Now, I see you favored Edwards and then Hillary Clinton - Is there anything they said that will be remembered verbatim 35 years after they said it - because it cuts to the heart of the subject matter? I don't think so.

[blm]

35. BCCI report was such a big ouch GHWBush threw 92 to Clinton in order to deepsix that report.

You really have no clue what has gone on in this country and who among Democrats have really served this nation's interests.

[wisteria]

36. Somethings can not be explained is short quips and funny one liners.

The subjects Kerry tackles are serious and complicated. I don't think he lectures, he explains his position fully.
It is unfortunate that Stewart values jokers and spinners over real patriots. Senator Kerry is who he is and his concerns and heart are in the right place. I think you are wrong to just dismiss him because he is a serious man who doesn't play well on a comedy show. I would suspect that for you, Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, and even Obama would be considered long-winded.

[TxRider]

17. Schooled? McCain is right

Whatever happens Obama is going to be held responsible, Congress critters like Kerry can say they stand behind him, but Obama is still in front, and the public will lay it on him just as starting the wars lays in Bush's lap.

[ProSense]

19. "McCain is right"? McCain is full of shit and you should be embarrassed for agreeing with him

McCain is channeling Bush and got rightfully smacked down.

[TxRider]

20. So the country is going to blame Kerry if it goes bad?

The country will blame the president. Constitutional duty counts for squat in public opinion.

If things go south and it turns to a quagmire, the country will blame Obama. He owns the war now, and that's just how it is.

This is not a constitutional argument, this is a political reality.

Congress voted to allow the war to start with, and for war in Iraq. Who owns that? Who do we hold responsible as a nation? Bush. Not congressmen, Bush.

This is political reality.

[ProSense]

21. "Constitutional duty counts for squat in public opinion." Right, that's why the war in Iraq is legal

Right?

Should Obama decide to escalate the war in Afghanistan without believable and provable justification, it's Congress' Constitutional responsiblity to end that war. Period.

[TxRider]

24. And if congress ends it, it'll be congress war then.

If Obama gets his way, what he wants, he owns it and will be accountable for it next election for better or worse. He gets all credit if it's good, all blame if it's bad.

Regardless of how congressmen stand behind him.

Bush got his way, got what he wanted, congress backed him, it's Bush's war, he owned it, he is saddled with it for all time.

That's how it works in the electorate and the press these days.

Just as McCain said, Obama will take the heat, or the credit if it goes well.

[ProSense]

26. I down give a shit who owns it, I care who ends it.

McCain is an asshole who believes the President has a right to start wars and Congress has no say. He doesn't know shit about the Constitution. Fortunately, he's wrong, and Kerry is making it clear that Congress has a role.

[TxRider]

33. I agree

But I fail to see where McCain said congress had no role.

He simply said Obama would take the heat. And he will.

[Egnever]

22. Agreed

I missed the schooling from kerry in the snippets posted here. Maybe its in the main article.

[ProSense]

23. Wow, all the McCain supporters.

Or just a bunch of people pissed that Kerry opened his mouth?

[politicasista]

28. Both

A mirror of Free Republic and personal 04/08 primary grudges. Hence the crickets.

[Egnever]

29. Opened his mouth about what?

The snippets sound like he agrees with mcsame to me.

[wisteria]

38. Then you need to re-read them. There is a world of difference on their ideas

and commitments. Senator Kerry actually has a clue.

[wisteria]

39. No, the voters will express their displeasure with the President by voting out his party.

And, the American public does have a stake in this, we are the people who fund it with our tax dollars and it is our daughters and sons who fight and die.

[punkin87]

18. K & R

[politicasista]

41. Kick for the smackdowns and crickets n/t

:kick: