I am greatly concerned about the interpretation of the VT shootings.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

Will this event further detriorate our society's confidence in its safety and security? Will it inflame the fear already built by government and media sponsors of exaggerating isolated incidents of violence? Will the VT shootings incite people to place more bars of isolation around themselves? Will our citizens voluntarily demand a stricter police state than already exists?

OR will this event cause our society to examine its soul and ask, "what are we doing to ourselves and one another for this to happen"?

I am concerned that, our self-possessed little world dependent upon reaction rather than thoughtful action will lead to the former rather than the latter.

The 'emotive', NOT the 'reasoned' seems to rule, here. That concerns me, greatly.

;(

[WiseButAngrySara]

1. It concerns a lot of us. There was another thread on this

earlier. I'll see if I can find it.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. I believe the issue of 'perspective' deserves our attention. Hope you find,...

,...that thread.

I'd prefer to set aside the USUAL political banter about gun control and have a talk about who we are, what we represent (beyond the corporacratic-controlled government), what we want for our WHOLE society, how we can accomplish our objectives, HOW TO FEEL SECURE WITH OURSELVES, and that kind of 'stuff'.

[WiseButAngrySara]

18. I did look, but no luck and I didn't post in that thread so I can't

look it up in My DU. I know I'd recognize the name if I saw it. It was an apologetic post stating that now is the time to discuss how this event might be used to manipulate us by horror and fear into more deprivation of our liberties. I'll try again. See post #10 below.

[WiseButAngrySara]

20. Here it is! Posted by Meldroc

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x666584

Talk about it NOW! the Va. Tech shootings, and the curtailing of our liberties.

(Note: I posted this in one of the other Va. Tech threads, but thought this posting is worthy of its own thread.)

I've seen it over and over and over again, and quite frankly, I'm sick of authoritarian mini-Hitlers exploiting (yes, EXPLOITING) these tragedies to curtail our liberties.

Maybe it is too soon to talk about this. That's the point. I'm going to talk about this. Already, we have one person in this thread suggesting we need to ban weapons on campus (breaking news, they're already banned on most college campuses in the U.S.)

Like I said, I feel for the people who were killed and their families, but I feel obligated to speak out NOW! That's part of the authoritarian spell is fear. And right now is when everyone is experiencing the most fear, after a shock of this magnitude. Right now. Recognize it and accept it, then we can dispel this fear, before it takes control of us.

Read all about this sort of reaction in Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians.

We're all in a heightened state of fear because of an idiot with a gun, and as a result, we're going to have right wing authoritarians, especially the ones in the White House, calling for an end to more of our liberties. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Chertoff and the rest of them are going to exploit this tragedy shamelessly. You know it in your hearts. They're going to demand measure after measure after measure, all intended to keep us safe, but in the end, if we do what they ask, they will turn our college campuses into prisons. If we let them, they will finish turning this entire country into a prison.

That's why I'm speaking up NOW, while the shock is fresh, to try to break that spell, while it's just starting to take hold.

Do you want the legacy of those college students who died today to be yet more bars on our doors and windows. Do you want your kids to live on campus without liberty? I sure don't.

Think about it.

[hlthe2b]

2. well one thing's for sure... it won't result in gun regulations

Can't even think about that, now...

Pretty soon someone will recommend students be assigned an assault rifle and a semi-automatic handgun with their dormitory room key, or primary school children, with their break nap mats....




:sarcasm:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. has this happened in other countries?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. Not in Brazil. And we have LOTS of gun violence.

But it's from crime.

Kids getting crazy and shooting schoolmates? Unheard of.

[Atman]

4. This argument is parallel to my argument about Imus and the slippery slope

Same argument, different provocation.

Over the weekend I got lambasted by most (not all) in a thread I started about "officially sanctioned speech," my point being that I feared the country will so over-react to the Imus remark as to fall right into the fascist's arms and grant them even more power to restrict our rights and liberties. I was called names and told I was racist and that I didn't get it...while all the time it was those posters who didn't "get it." Our society never seems to look back and ask "what are we doing to ourselves?" because our culture has bred a bunch of narcissistic assholes whose only concern will be "how will this affect ME?" So parents will buy their kids cute little Baby Gap Kevlar vests, but no one will think twice about HOW a society could get to this point. That's too deep for America.

What time is Idol on? I hope this story doesn't pre-empt it!

.

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. Absolutely right. There was another eloquent post this morning

warning about further suppression of our liberties and I looked for it but can't find it or remember the DUers name.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

13. Yes. That particular reaction also concerned me.

I guess the bottom line to my worry is: the maintenance of PERSPECTIVE which seems to be totally lost in these times.

[smalll]

5. You are so right. The 'emotive' rather than the 'reasoned' -

here's how I put it in another thread. I'm sorry, but this is what I see:

Today was a terrible day, but I know already how this will go, America can't help itself anymore. The "VT Families" will end up going on a crusade to radically beef up campus security so that This Can Never Happen Again. Before you know it, tuition will rise for all the extra watchmen and high-tech (and privacy-invading) surveilance and security equipment every campus will have to buy and use. Getting onto a college campus will approach getting onto a plane.

A terrible thing happened. Someone snapped and massacred many dear people today. It so happened that it happened at a college (rather than at a mall, an office building, a factory, etc.). It so happened that it happened at VT. (The murderer is now dead. I think it would not make much sense for anyone to avoid going to VT rather than any other place because of this.) AND, it so happened that this man happened to shoot people in one building, then go accross campus and shoot people in another building. It so happened that the police thought the shooter was still in the original building. It's all chance, it's all the coincidences of the universe. The only constant is the fact that, every now and then, some lost, crazy person will do something like this. Want more gun control? I could get behind that.

But wait for it, the VT "Families" will end up being subtly goaded and guilted by the media and our modern-day yellow-ribbon culture of mourning to devote their lives to a new Campus Security Crusade to "make sure" that no one, ever again, at a college campus, can shoot people in two locations rather than one, attempting to close one particular barn door in the infinite stables of human life, when that horse is, sadly, tragically, long gone.

I hope and pray that as many as possible of the relatives of those who died today will be able to avoid that trap. I hope they can mourn, heal, and go on with life, and remember and focus on the LIVES of their loved-ones with those who knew them, rather than end up focussing on how their loved-ones happened to die, interminably, and in public.

[Atman]

7. Where's that other thread? PERFECT analysis.

IMHO.

.

[smalll]

9. Thanks. The other thread was not as closely on-topic as this one /nt

[Matsubara]

8. Good question here...

"Will this event further detriorate our society's confidence in its safety and security? Will it inflame the fear already built by government and media sponsors of exaggerating isolated incidents of violence"


I would say that as a society, we have more than enough security. Our moneyed interests have security out the wazoo.

It's time to start working on a more benevolent and civil society, where LESS SECURITY WILL BE NECESSARY IN THE FIRST PLACE.


At least that's how I see it from my roost here in relatively crime-free Japan, where kindness to strangers is still commonplace, and even sarcasm is almost nonexistent...

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

16. Yes. But,...I figure one of the problems is over-confidence in our 'benevolence'.

It's strange to live in a country where obvious misbehaviors by its 'leaders' are persistently denied, excused, explained. Simultaneously, every isolated horror is exploded into something akin to an everyday event.

What's also quite strange is the 'fiction' of American life portrayed on tee-vee, each and every day, versus the reality of American existence. I deal with the facts of my life, separating what is and isn't, but watch others' perpetual struggle with a fantasy that does not exist. It's,...sad,...because, I remember that struggle and still have flashes of the fantasy.

;(

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

11. Our children are being indoctrinated into living in a prison society. I had a discussion

about this with my neighbor who is our local school board. I mentioned that I saw a meeting of the board on local access tv, where a parent and also the head of the local Unitarian Congregations complained about an African-American child being harassed. The child is the adopted child of white parents. There was no violence, only horrid words. I was surprised as both of my children who have been in the district did have many diversity classes.

My neighbor told me that they are trying to have a police officer through the DARE program, in each school. It told him quite frankly this leads to kids feeling like they are in a jail and having a police officer was totally overreacting. I find it disturbing.

As a parent, I want my children Always to be safe, but metal detectors, police presence, curfews are means of desensitizing our children to a police state.

[meldroc]

15. That was my concern this morning.

I'm very worried that we're going to have a fear-based, mob mentality throughout this country, demanding we do anything, including destroying our liberties to put us into that mythical safe bubble. The end result is not going to be as safe as we would like (though we'll get a lot of security theater,) and in the end we'll have given up all our liberties. Liberties great and small. If your mom accidentally leaves a paring knife in your lunchbox when you bring it to school, you're expelled. Our airports are already like prisons. This is the same mentality that brought us the PATRIOT Act, the Military Commissions Act, etc. We've got torture, NSA warrantless wiretaps, the end of habeas corpus, the constant low-level threat of reprisal from the government if we speak out. How did that happen? Because when we got into a hysterical frenzy of terror after an event like today's or on 9/11, or Columbine, we gave the government the powers to do this. Do not be surprised when (not if) these powers are abused.

[applegrove]

12. You are just afraid people will demand "all" options be on the table to solve this little gun

problem American educational institutions have. Unless you have the emotions of a box of cornflakes...you will react with horror. And you use that horror to focus on the problem and fix it. Then the problem gets better.

There now. Don't ya feel better?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

14. oh SSSST-AAA-WWW-P!

:rofl:

AHEM!!!! I'M BEING SERIOUS, HERE, AND YOU'RE R-U-I-N-I-N-G IT WITH your luscious sense of humor.

Always good to avoid taking ourselves too seriously or we'd go nuts, huh!!

Thanks.

[applegrove]

21. I was being serious. I saw NRA people behind every post yesterday. Actually there

were quite a few NRA posts. Perhaps not yours. Glad you decided to laugh at my "sarcasm". LOL!

[seabeyond]

19. i am with you. right there with you. very well said. n/t