Are Fallen Soldiers Heroes?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

(posted with permission from http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-fallen-soldiers-heroes.html )

On September 21st, Italy held a national day of mourning, as it remembered its six soldiers killed in Afghanistan the prior week. A state funeral was held at St. Paul's Basilica in Rome, as the caskets were displayed for the world to see and the nation mourned with the grieving families.

That same week, the U.S. had 18 soldiers killed in Afghanistan and four in Iraq. But if you didn't read it here, you may not have been aware.

For there was no national day of mourning. Americans didn't share in the family's sorrow as the dead were buried with little or no news media coverage, out of sight and largely forgotten.

As for the severely wounded soldiers, they too were largely forgotten. Yet for the rest of their lives, these courageous individuals will live without an arm or a leg, or perhaps bear brain damage or some other horrific injury.

It's easy for politicians when it suits their purposes to publicly proclaim these brave soldiers "heroes" and then afterward quickly forget them, as life goes on. But how can anyone be so callous as to treat "heroes" this way?

If you are an American, as I am, these soldiers are fighting and in some cases dying for us. What kind of a people would allow these wars to continue as long as they are spared the brutal impact of them?

The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were colossal mistakes and for reasons unstated, U.S. political leaders continue one and are escalating the other. Why? What can possibly be accomplished? There are no clearly stated objectives, no timeline or budget, just endless warfare.

Every day these "heroes" put their lives on the line for an indifferent nation. If you find that offensive, speak-up! Your voice counts and it could help to end these wars and rescue these soldiers and bring them home safely to their families. Isn't that the least we can do for people who risk their lives for us?

--------------------------------------------------

I personally am truly saddened that these boys and girls of ours are STILL in harms way. This killing/dying will end at some point, but when?

[Romulox]

1. No, not heroes. Lives tragically wasted, for nothing... nt

[gratuitous]

2. They aren't risking their lives for me

They can come home on the next transport, for as much as I want them in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else in the world. And we appear to be following a very well-worn recipe for stupidity in Afghanistan, in that the only thing worse than beginning a general pull-out now would be to dick around for another six months, year or decade and then pull out with nothing more to show for our expenditures than what we have today.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

5. But if we stay silent as the wars continue, are we not condoning these wars?

Condone Definition:
1. to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like). 2. to give tacit approval to.

I'm with you on this one. Bring them home now.

[gratuitous]

19. Yes, I think we are condoning these wars

Which is why I (and many others) don't stay silent; it's probably the least I can do, which is very much in keeping with my character in doing the least possible. I can't say that it excuses me, and looks like a pretty pitiful effort, but it's something.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

7. I agree with you.

They aren't boys and girls, their men and women that had a choice. Most are there for economic reasons. Until we're able to call this what
it really is, nothing will change. The hero worship mentality has worn thin.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

11. Re: "Until we're able to call this what it really is...

What do we call it?


And you stated: "They aren't boys and girls, they are men and women that had a choice".

Yeah, really young men and woman, who are way too young to die.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

20. The average age of a soldier who has died in Iraq is 30.

http://homepage.mac.com/gcatalone/iblog/B946297652/C1205016862/E20051030011855/index.html

"We" call it an illegal for profit war. What do you call it?

[Zywiec]

3. We have Memorial Day and Veteran's Day

although I'm sure there are plenty here that wouldn't mind getting rid of those.

Not sure hero applies in every case, but they do deserve our respect.

:patriot: :toast:

[11 Bravo]

4. Some are, some were just unlucky.

[old mark]

6. Absolutely. Standing next to a real hero is a bad place to be.

They tend to draw a lot of negative attention.
I really agree about the respect, though. They do certainly deserve it.

mark

[11 Bravo]

9. Yup, the ones I knew drew AK fire and RPG rounds like Rush Limbaugh attracts body lice.

And as for the respect, fucking-A, bubba.

[old mark]

29. I guess you missed the big welcome home parade.

Me, too.

Welcome back, 11B.

mark

[11 Bravo]

36. Yeah, my DEROS was expedited a bit. I came home to Walter Reed ( a tad early to be sure ...

but I found the price to be exorbitant).

[TheCoxwain]

18. Thankfully - you are not a diplomat - are you?

There is truth and there is dressing up truth so that it look prettier.

I guess you are not a make up artist either.

[old mark]

26. No. I am a former soldier from another stupid war long ago.

I spent nearly a year in an army hospital - the summer of love included - with many guys who refered to the Purple Heart medal (combat wound decoration) as the "enemy marksmanship award". I did meet a real hero, but that is a story for another time and place.

mark
former Sp4, 82d Abn Div, 504 PIR

[TheCoxwain]

34. awesome ...would love to hear your story

whenever you ready to tell

[11 Bravo]

35. I'll bite ... What the fuck are you talking about? Your response to my post ...

(that some fallen soldiers are heroes and some were simply unlucky) makes no sense. Diplomat? Make-up artist? That is some random shit, there. Is it your contention that no one KIA could posssible be a hero? Enlighten me.

[TheCoxwain]

40. If you dont get the drift ... you probably are a resident of dumbfukistan.

[11 Bravo]

42. Pithy. Non-responsive and nonsensical, but ... pithy. If you can cry on demand ...

you could fill in for Glenn Beck occasionally.

[subcomhd]

8. The word is often misused but

with an all voluteer Army, one could make the case that they are.

[JVS]

10. No

[11 Bravo]

16. Not one of them?

[proteus_lives]

12. I think they are.

Even if you agree that A/I are mistakes and claim, "They're not fighting/dying for me." That doesn't change the fact that they WOULD fight and die for you. They volunteered, took an oath and put on a uniform. If the situation arose, the men and women of our armed forces would put themselves between us and harm's way.

:patriot:

[southernyankeebelle]

13. Well the Italians know how to mourn - I remember when the little

fat pope John died in 1963. He really was loved by millions of people not like this idiot we have now. Anyway when he died we were there visiting with relatives. They had a one week of mourning. No TV and I think some of the stores were closed during the day of the funeral. It was like everything stop functioning. We all had to show respect for the dead. Back then when a woman's husband died you had to wear black for 5 to 7 years. They really show respect for the dead. Sorry its not here. Bush was good like his daddy at hiding the dead.

[Lagomorph]

14. Yes.

The people who are willing to sacrifice themselves are worthy of respect. The same kind of people who died in combat also died trying to rescue people in the WTC.

It is up to us to see that they are deployed properly and not wasted.

The killing/dying has been going on since the dawn of man.

As a soldier, I learned that even morons and fools have the potential for greatness when the opportunity presents itself.

[JimWis]

15. Damn right they are Heroes. Even though I am against these

current wars - they took an oath to go where sent and defend the rest of us if needed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. If they were fighting for us, they would be.

If, OTOH, they die fighting for American economic hegemony, then they are just victims like everybody else.

[frebrd]

21. I don't imagine they're heroes ........

to the families of the people they've killed.

All a matter of perspective.

[Libertas1776]

22. I think to describe every single

member of the military as heroes sort of cheapens the word. Some, who have fallen, without a doubt you would classify as a hero, the rest, sadly IMHO, are simply victims. They are victims of the machinations of politicians and generals in Washington.

These stupid wars have to end. Bring them home now, dammit!

[Posteritatis]

28. +1 (nt)

[Democracyinkind]

23. No. They're victims of a greater something (not "good") just like the people they kill are.

My life does not depend on my neighbors will to fight somewhere around the world.

Although I understand that most people don't really join the military on idealistic grounds I still find the decision to do so inherently unheroic.

But it's not hard to imagine the mindset that makes them heroes. I used to think that too, it comes naturally somehow.

[NorthCarolina]

24. They're most certainly "victims"...and yes, they are also "heroes" n/t

[onenote]

25. based on how I define a hero, yes they are

I believe the term hero applies to a person who courageously risks or sacrificed his or her life in pursuit of something other than personal gain.

The soldiers dying in Afghanistan are members of an all-volunteer army. They have chosen to follow a path that puts them at significant risk. That takes courage and they are to be appreciated and respected for that.

For what its worth, I think those who volunteer to go into dangerous areas, whether here or overseas, to provide medical assistance or otherwise help with disaster relief, tutor or feed the impoverished, etc. They too are heroes in my book.

[Regret My New Name]

31. Curious, do you consider the insurgents to be heros too?

Many of them are volunteers who are following a path that puts them at significant risk too.

Ehnn.. Like someone said above, I think it's a matter of perspective.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

43. Very well put..

Thank you for adding so much to the dissuasion.

[dysfunctional press]

27. it depends on how they lost their lives- but the word "hero" has been GREATLY cheapened lately.

all you have to do to be called a hero anymore is put on a uniform.

the word means basically nothing anymore.

[SoCalDem]

30. dying does not automatically make one a hero

nor does being a hero mean automatic death.

heroism is doing the unexpected heroic deed..it's just that simple.

heroes do what they are not trained to do, they act in a split second, risking their own life to save the life of another..often someone they do not even know.

a mother saving her child may be a heroic deed, but it is expected of her, so is it truly heroism?

a firefighter braving flames to rescue someone may be heroic, but since that is technically his job, is it really heroism?

but a passerby on his way home from the store, who breaks a window, goes into a burning house and saves a child? that's heroism (to me at least)

or a person who pulls an unconscious stranger from a burning car after an accident..that's also heroism

or even a soldier who risks his own life to save his buddy could be heroism

but being hit by enemy fire in armed combat does not make one a hero..a target maybe, but not a hero.

[pennylane100]

32. Can heroes also be occupiers.

We did not go to Iraq to save the people, we did however end up killing hundreds of thousands and displacing millions. We looted and burned their country and raped and torchered them to death in the same prisons as Saddam did. That does not sound too heroic.

We went to Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden who now, I understand, lives in Pakistan. There we also killed, burned and looted and along the way we established a puppet government who just stole the election and any hope of freedom and democracy for the country. Again, not too heroic. I thik it is a tragedy all around.

[Kaleva]

33. I once questioned if Kerry was worthy of hero stautus....

and got flamed big time for it.

[gleaner]

37. I think they are heroic ....

This is an all volunteer military, and in order to participate a soldier has to make the decision to sign up, and then follow through and do it, knowing that he or she is putting their lives on the line.

They enlist for many reasons, but I think the basis for most enlistments is a dedication to this country and what they believe that it stands for and a feeling that they are protecting it. How many people are willing to trade their lives for what they consider to be important?

I'm and anti war person, but I can still understand the fact that offering your life as barter is an heroic act. In return the Bush administration mistreated the military, denied them medical service and offered inadequate protection against the hazards they faced in the war zones. The families at home had to make do with less than other military families during former wars and in many instances they received a stunning lack of support for their needs.

Bush made the decision early on that if people in the U.S. knew what the war was doing they would be more likely to oppose it, so he refused to allow military burials to be photographed and didn't even release comprehensive lists naming the dead and wounded in an easily locatable venue. My husband and I ran an anti war board until I got to sick to participate and he could not do it alone anymore. One of the things that he did that got the most hits was a page simply naming the war dead, both American and Iraqi. It was harder with the Iraqis and the dead of Afghanistan because in most instance no names were ever given, so he gave locations, numbers and causes of death when he could find them. It took a lot of research to locate the American casualties as well. He found that home town newspapers were often the best sources for names and other information. In their home towns the soldiers were still treated with honor.

Anti war sentiment and all it never ceased to sicken me that Bush treated the military members who trusted him with their lives so cavalierly and indifferently. I see the same things continuing now. We need to care about our soldiers no matter how we feel about the wars they fight. They are members of our community and a part of us. You don't simply abandon a part of you to neglect and mistreatment. Quaintly put, it is not right.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

38. I thank all of you for your honest discussion of a tragic situation. nt

[DBoon]

39. Heroes like coal miners killed underground

people who do dangerous but vital tasks are heroes.

The tragedy is a life wasted on a task that was not worth their death.

Most wars are not worth the lives of those who fought and died on them

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

41. The Author Responds To Your Comments...

I read all the posts and found some of them deeply moving such as the ones from a severely wounded Vietnam War veteran and "Gleaner," an antiwar activist, posting near the end.

As for those who feel that in a volunteer military, you get what you signed up for, I would remind them that:

1) About 1/4 still sign up because they become U.S. citizens by doing so, assuming they survive. They usually come from extreme poverty and hunger for a better life.

2) About another 1/3 are National Guard troops. "National Guard" presumably meant to serve in America, not overseas. Most signed up long before their units were abruptly shipped to Iraq or Afghanistan for extended tours of dangerous duty.

Often, they return to no job in this bad economy and in some cases to families in disarray having lost their bread winner and husband and father (or wife and mother) for a lengthy time.

3) Many others are young and naive and believe in what the recruiters tell them. They also trust in their government. I've met young soldiers like these, some suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and deeply embittered by what they saw and participated in there.

Are they "heroes?" Are their dead comrades "heroes?" Top politicians often say, "yes," and then pressure the news media not to cover their deaths. These "heroes" are invisible. It is if they never had families, never had dreams and never lived at all.