What qualifies as "rich" or "wealthy" in this country?

[vincna]

On another thread, there was quite a lot of discussion, mostly negative, about rich people. Rich people are not usually viewed favorably on DU.

I'm interested to know peoples' opinion on what constitutes rich.

[gratuitous]

1. Anyone with more money than me

:P

[applegrove]

2. I think someone with more than 5 Million is how we gage today.

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. If your income is based on wealth created from wealth

and 15% Capital Gains dominate your tax return as opposed to 30-something% tax on actual work, you are in the money class, IMO.

[Lucky Luciano]

31. Ruby, excellent definition. I think I will use your notion of wealth.

It is a very good definition because it factors in very well the cost of living wherver someone lives. If I have $5MM in Mississippi, I am rich and one could easily live off of investments that yield only 5-8%. If I have $5MM in NYC, then $3MM goes to a 2000 square foot apartment, plus upkeep, and all the other costs of living in NYC. The $2MM balance would not yield enough to support living well enough to stay in said apartment and one would need to maintain a job that pays at least 250K per year. OTOH, if one has $20MM in NYC, then such a person can afford the $3MM or even $4MM apartment, and make relatively low risk investments yielding 5-8% per year which comes out to $1MM or so per year without lifting a finger. One could spend half of that per year and save and reinvest the other half and have it grow - it is not uber-rich clearly, but it is definitely rich.

[paulsby]

35. are you serious

i know traders (i am one myself, although it is not my primary occupation)

who make anywhere from 30k to over 1 million

all of them have their returns dominated by cap gains and/or losses.

not all traders are rich.

many go broke.

one of the coolest guy i ever met was a CBOT floor trader. contrary to popular belief, floor traders (a dying breed as market go electronic) is very much a physical, demanding type job. many floor traders are former athletes, etc. and many are far from rich.

[Lucky Luciano]

60. Dude, ruby was referring to those that are passive investors -

Not active traders that do have to bust their ass. (S)he was also probably referring to those who can have low risk passive investments that generate AT LEAST $1-2mm per year, so not a retired old person (for the person below you), but enough for a 24 year old to retire and party for the rest of their life!

[TankLV]

67. You make over a MILLION and are NOT rich?!!!

Well - I thought you were nuts by your other posts - but this seals the deal - your a fucking IDIOT!!!

Anything over 200 thousand dollars is RICH...!!!

A Million is way beyond that!!!

[MajorChode]

55. There's a lot of retired people who worked hard all their life to get into that situation

Do they fit your "money class" definition?

[Lucky Luciano]

61. See my post above.. Rubyis not talking about old retirees, but about someone

Who can retire young and live a jetset life with income from low risk passive investments.

[MajorChode]

62. It looks like a blanket statement to me

YMMV.

The vast majority of people who live off their wealth worked their entire life to earn that wealth for that specific reason.

[Lucky Luciano]

69. right...and the vast majority of people are not rich which is why

I added the clarification. Iris meant to be a blanket statement if course as with any definition.

[WeDidIt]

4. The top 1.5% of this country makes $250,000/year or more.

The top 1% makes $350,000/year or more.

In most places in this country, I'd say wealthy is really $500,000/year or more.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Income doesn't equate to actual, real waelth,

Except on DU, where reality hardly intrudes any more.

[Hannah Bell]

25. bottom threshhold on top 1% of income tax returns in 2007 = $410,000

"adjusted" gross income.

the "adjustments" remove some of the income out of the gate.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

[Lyric]

5. I didn't see negative discussion about rich people.

I saw negative discussion about GREEDY people, especially those who happen to also be rich. Of course, a lot of what was said could also apply to middle-class idiots who are all-too-quick to insult the poor and vote for Wall Street's best interests instead of their own.

:shrug:

As for me, anyone who could stop working and still live a perfectly more-than-comfortable life until they die and leave a big chunk o' change for their kids is "rich." Anyone who lives like that and yet spends money to oppose things like health care, Food Stamps, and TANF for the poor and their children, anyone who thinks that money equals higher human quality, anyone who sneers at the homeless while buying their next vacation villa, is "greedy."

:hi:

[vincna]

13. I wasn't thinking only of your thread

In fairness, your thread was directed at greedy people who happen to be rich. Given the amount of discussion about the rich that I have seen on DU over a long period of time, I thought it would be interesting to get opinions on what "rich" means.

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. +1

It is the motivation that is the issue, not the bank account.

[DJ13]

6. ....

[Captain Hilts]

7. It REALLY depends on where you live. nt

[Hannah Bell]

10. it doesn't at all.

[Captain Hilts]

21. See what a difference $55K gets you in Norfolk, VA and Washington, DC. and Chicago. nt

[Hannah Bell]

23. $55k is "rich" in neither locality. the "rich" can fund their lifestyle anywhere on earth

with their pocket change.

[stray cat]

30. I think thats the key point - wealthy is when you don't have to worry about where you live

[virgogal]

11. Exactly!

[Hannah Bell]

8. the top 1%, i.e. those who control the "commanding heights" of the economy.

For example, the forbes 400 (a mere fraction of the top 1%) control assets = to the entire economy of france.

& because that economic power is concentrated in so few hands, it can quite easily be used to destroy one economy here & raise up another there, to move hearts & minds through use of media, to control the global political debate, etc.

the top 1% world-wide own most of the world's productive assets = the ruling class & the truly rich.

[grahamhgreen]

50. +1

[MrModerate]

9. Well, here's my Pollyanna viewpoint . . .

Decent home, decent job, reasonable health, adequately happy family (some bumpiness expected) = rich.

Look around you, especially at countries with *really* bad government or hopeless socioeconomic conditions. You only get one life, and if you get a passing score on the list above, then you are rich.

(Uberrich is another question.)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

32. Chris Rock said it best...

Wealth is passed down from generation to generation, you can't get rid of wealth. Rich is some shit you can loose with a crazy summer and a drug habit."

[CrispyQ]

57. Oh, man, I'm saving that one!

:thumbsup:

[bluestateguy]

12. Oh this ought to be good

We have had these debates before at DU, and they always end badly.

[Kansas Wyatt]

15. Do you work for money or does your money work for you?

If you do NOT have to work for money for the rest of your life, and can survive off of your money working for you, then you are rich.

[Dirtyhairy]

16. 300K+ a year = rich, 50 million+ in assets = wealthy

just my arbitrary opinion

[anonymous171]

18. People with lots and lots of assets.

If you have a lot of money and a lot of property, then you are wealthy.

[BlooInBloo]

19. In the large, there are 2 basic measures: income, and accumulated wealth....

As anyone with even the most rudimentary knowledge of math knows, they two are generically related by the Fundamental Theorem Of Calculus.

[begin_within]

20. Someone who owns the title to a piece of land.

Land ownership seems to be the dividing line between the "haves" and the "have nots" in the U.S.

[Hannah Bell]

24. so anyone who owns a piece of land is rich? so if someone owns & lives in

their grandpa's shack with an outhouse in appalachia, they're "rich"? or if someone owns a two-bedroom in a burnt-out neighborhood in detroit, they're "rich"?

nah. no different from a small-holding peasant in the third world.

[flvegan]

41. Land can be owned in fee-simple and still have encumbrances.

Encumbrances that vastly outvalue the real property.

[CoffeeCat]

22. My husband and I just had this discussion...

Several months ago, there was an article in the NYTimes that showed exactly what % you are in--
based on your annual income (before taxes, etc).

The upper 1 percent, is those making 500k or more.

If you make 100k--you're just barely in the top 10 percent.

Those are household incomes.

I thought that was pretty interesting. I'll try to find that article.

[Hannah Bell]

26. that's closer to the figures in actual income tax returns.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

[paulsby]

36. it's interesting that 100k is the top 10

i know a LOT of cops who make more than that.

that's pretty cool in that it doesn't take connections (although in some dept's it helps), or an expensive education, etc. to be in the top 10% in one of the richest nations on earth. it takes hard work, common sense, good judgment, ethics, and perseverance.

this is not to say that SOME cops are not very well educated, btw. in my agency, we have two phd's that i know of, and tons of masters and law degrees.

probably about 50% are high school only, and most high school only people also did military service

we've seen an uptick in applicants, which is not surprising considering the stateof the economy

but for those who say the american dream is dead, i say dream on. 5 yrs on with a decent agency in my neck of the woods and you can make 70k base pay. add on some overtime and.or some incentives (specialized unit pay, etc.) and 100k is not difficult at all.

[caballero]

27. I despise rich people. And when I win the lottery I still will.

:rofl:

[harun]

28. If you have enough wealth to have power over others with it.

[lastliberalintexas]

29. Most responders will focus on annual income

Unfortunately, even many liberals don't understand economic issues as well as we should.

Someone who is wealthy has the assets (ie, net worth) to sustain a comfortable lifestyle *without having to work*. If you HAVE to work, you are not wealthy. You may be well off, upper middle class and even rich, but you are not wealthy if you must work.

And I wish more people understood that concept. The have nots and have a littles fight amongst themselves, while the true elite laugh all the way to the bank.

[redqueen]

52. +1

[quaker bill]

63. The true elite

does not go to the bank. They either have people to do that for them, or the bank comes to them.

[Thickasabrick]

33. Simon Cowell nt

[HughBeaumont]

34. "Shaq is 'rich'. The guy who signs Shaq's checks is 'wealthy'"

Kind of does depend on where you live.

$200,000/year is a king's ransom in Ohio and Arkansas. San Francisco and Manhattan? Not so much.

Then again, you wouldn't be making 200 grand a year in Ohio or Arkansas unless you were an Executive Director. That's what some middle management/traders/SFA's make in the bigger cities.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. I'll agree about incomes in Arkansas

Heck, I'm not rich, but even I can almost feel like a king when I go back for short visits to Arkansas because the prices of things I need to buy there seem so low. And then I look in the Help Wanted ads and see factory jobs paying maybe $10-15 an hour, and retail/service paying less, and there doesn't seem to be much paying over $50,000/year. So, yes, for most people $200 grand would be a dream income in the Land of Opportunity.

[Quantess]

37. People once described as "wealthy" are now the new upper middle class.

What was once described as "upper middle class" is now middle class, and everyone once described as "middle class" is now working class, and are all now fighting for the same crappy jobs as the so-called "working class".

It's all about the Uber-Wealthy, and what they do with your money. Watch out.

[harmonicon]

39. "working class" means that you have to work

Almost everyone is working class, but that term has become a dirty world in a country where self esteem is pegged to social status. The middle class came out as a growth of the merchant class. They were not the aristocracy, but also did not work in a traditional way - bankers, traders, etc. These were people who had employees, sent their children to private schools and universities. 100 years ago, having servants was a very middle class thing - if you didn't have servants, you probably weren't middle class. Of course the take over of nearly all business interests by massive corporations did away with business owners and the middle class with them by consolidating ownership in the hands of a few. Those who in the industrial revolution were the nouveau riche and whose families have now become established "old money".

These terms don't really have anything to do with what kind of car or house you have, but want kind of power you have and one's place in society. In those terms, almost everyone is working class.

[Odin2005]

38. If you can theoretically live off your assets sustainably without working you are "rich".

[TheKentuckian]

42. Shaq is rich the man that writes his check is wealthy.

If you are pretty young but never need to make another dime then you are rich, if your great-grandchildren will never have to work then you are wealthy.

If you can't remember how many houses you have you're a stupid pig whether your wealthy or just rich.

[bridgit]

43. Being rich is to have big-money; being wealthy is to hold developed, maturated properties...

able to exist, formulate/re-formulate & propel themselves based upon sheer brute forward inertia in you or your family's name

[earth mom]

44. Why do you want to know? So you can feel smug or less guilty?

:eyes:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

45. If you're looking for 'smug' ...

look in a mirror.

[earth mom]

48. Nope-don't think so. nt

[Kablooie]

46. If you add my 40 years retirement savings and house value I have A MILLION DOLLARS!

So I'm a MILLIONAIRE! I'm rich!

I'm rolling in it!

Where's my yacht? Where's my personal jet?

Hmmm.

Seems you can be a millionaire and still not quite squeak through as easily as you'd like.

[TheKentuckian]

47. You aren't rich, not even close that's pride messin; with ya

You can't even open a McDonald's or something. You're nothing but working class that saved some money over decades. You have achieved a little security but I can't even declare you "well off".

[TankLV]

68. Yes - you ARE "RICH"!!! - most people have DEBT, not "savings", let alone a MILLION DOLLARS!!!

If you can't survive on or think that a Million Dollars isn't "RICH" then you're an IDIOT.

Sorry - but someone had to tell you...

[Kablooie]

71. Hooray! I'm rich!

Now I can buy that $900 iPhone app "I'm Rich" that just shows a picture of a diamond!

Of course I'll have to sell my house and live in my car to get my million dollars but hey, you can't have everything.

[grahamhgreen]

49. Say 10 million in assets, which is $200,000/year at 2% interest (minus 15% in taxes). People who

will never have to worry about Health care, food, shelter, or putting their kids through college.

We could all be 'rich' with a few simple policy changes.

Of course, even these people arn't the real problem, it's the ones with hundreds of millions or billions.

I read in USA today that 400 people have 50% of the wealth in this country - that is just wrong.

If we had a 94% tax on wealth over 10 million, we'd all be better off.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. If your primary purpose for earning more money is so that your kids won't have to work...

... you're rich. Rich in a counterproductive way.

[Javaman]

53. in my world, it's anyone who can pay their bills and not worry about next month. nt

[Echo In Light]

54. Exactly

[MajorChode]

56. Almost everyone in America is rich

If you have a roof over your head and have enough food to fill your belly, you are better off than 4.5 billion other people and would be considered rich by the vast majority of the world's population.

[philly_bob]

58. I like these two definitions in the replies above:

1) If you can theoretically live off your assets sustainably without working you are "rich".

2) Say 10 million in assets, which is $200,000/year at 2% interest (minus 15% in taxes).

Generally, I am sad when I look back at my life and realize how much I could have accomplished creatively (I think) if I hadn't spent 40 years working as a wage-slave for "the man."

[Cleita]

59. My version, since I worked in a bank in Beverly Hills whose clientele was

extraordinarily rich, being a mere millionaire was considered being well off but not rich. One had to be a billionaire for the bank to consider treating the client with concierge type service reserved only for the wealthiest. Also wealth was measured in assets, not income. So movie and TV stars who were making huge salaries were not considered rich until they had accumulated enough assets to not have to worry about working every again.

[quaker bill]

64. I am rich

in that I have significantly more money than I need to make ends meet. Of course, my needs are modest intentionally. But I still have to work, so I am not wealthy.

[Terry in Austin]

65. A good place to draw the line: If you're "work optional," you're rich

If you can live comfortably off your interest income, that puts you in a whole other class.

People who have to work in order to live comfortably have very different interests and a very different stake in society than those who don't.

So what would a "work optional" net worth be? Say, with a conservative 2% average return, $2.5 million would give you the median household income of $50,000. So $5 million would have you sitting very comfy indeed.

[Ardent15]

66. Six figure salary or more

[ecstatic]

70. I got in an argument with someone over this question

He said the truly rich/wealthy do not have to work. I agree with that, but I also said wealth can be relative. There is the economic definition and a common sense definition for wealth, IMO. Compared to some poor people in 3rd world countries, all Americans (except for homeless) are wealthy.