$500.00 says the VA Tech shooter was on anti-depressants.

[Pab Sungenis]

This is the one common thread among all the various school shootings, and the one that always goes overlooked either in the reporting, or the "analysis" that always follows these events. In every notable case, the shooter(s) had been on antidepressants.

Antidepressants (especially the most-commonly prescribed school of them, the SSRI's like Prozac and Zoloft) carry side-effects. In some cases, they can be extreme. People don't like to talk about these side-effects, preferring to view these medications as wonder drugs, magically curing everyone's ills. These little wonder drugs, however, can kill.

Side-effects of SSRI's include depersonalization, suicidal thoughts and behavior, and in some cases mania. Anxiety and panic attacks can result from these pills, not to mention trouble sleeping, sexual side-effects, and night terrors. In most cases where these medications are actually needed they are a life saver, and the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. However, when used improperly, these pills can kill.

Paducah, Springfield, Jonesboro, Columbine, West Nickel Mines, Dawson, Platte Canyon, and every one in between, the common element is antidepressants.

Some might dismiss this as conicidence, or as a symptom of an underlying problem. (After all, a lot of suicidal and homicidal behavior goes hand in hand with depression.) I don't see it that way. Probably the biggest one of the Dirty Little Secrets of antidepressants is this....

...if you aren't clinically depressed, SSRI's can make you depressed.

There's the rub. These pills that help millions of people with imbalanced brain chemistry lead normal lives can, if misprescribed, cause the very disorders they're meant to treat. Couple this with the "treat it with pills" mentality common in America in recent generations, and you have a ticking time bomb.

George Carlin once said that the greatest gateway drug in history was St. Joseph's Children's Aspirin. He's not that far off. From a very young age, we're taught that the cure for all that ails us can often be found in a pill. Got an ache? Take a Tylenol. Feel a sniffle? Take a Claritin. It's not that big a jump from "feel bummed? Take a Happyhappy." Too many doctors are writing prescriptions for our kids when they aren't really clinically depressed. Our culture has blurred the lines between "depressed" and "bummed out;" the former is caused by a chemical imbalance and the latter is caused by life. There is a cure for the former, and there is no cure for the latter, although some might want to think there is.

We're overmedicating our kids and ourselves. Our desire to insulate our kids from actual harm has led to our attempting to insulate them from the mental bumps and bruises that come from being alive, and it's having tragic side-effects. No truly thorough study has been done in the U.S. on correlations between anti-depressants and suicide, and when one is done in another country (like the recent study in the U.K. by the Guardian newspaper) the American Pharmaceutical Industry sweeps in to hush it up or discredit it. Money can't buy happiness (despite what the marketing genius for Glaxo-SmithKline would have us think), but properly applied it can buy silence and complacency.

It's time for a real look into the effects of these pills, and the alarming abuse of them by people who think they're doing kids a favor by giving them a pill to cure reality.

©2007 P. Sungenis, All Rights Reserved

[gravity]

1. $500 that the kid needed to be on anti-depressants

[JuniperLea]

4. or anti-psychotics... n/t

[EFerrari]

51. Bingo. n/t

[GreenTea]

55. Hypnotised - robot - medicated - headline changer - lowdown killer - suicide after deed...

What story, what angle will the corporate mainstream media feed us? You really believe a fucking word television media tells you?...So we'll ALL believe it as truth whatever they feed us and we'll end up nowhere trying to pick it apart...Where will the MSM send us?

[JuniperLea]

104. Extrapolate much? n/t

[Duppers]

56. I'll 2nd that

nt

[nashville_brook]

69. i bet he WASN'T on either and needed to be

[JuniperLea]

88. Could very well be that!

Too much or too little... same problem, different cause.

[bdamomma]

96. well if he was a Chinese national (which was reported) who says

he was even prescribed anti psychotics.

[geardaddy]

105. Chinese. Korean. What's the difference?

:eyes:

[Beaverhausen]

2. I thought that too

interesting if we find out.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. No... No.... The Punk Was A Selfish Cold Hearted Cold Blooded Piece Of Shit Killer All On His Own.

I refuse to minimize the evil of this piece of shit by deflecting the blame onto medications you don't even know he was on and regardless would not be to blame, merely for twisting this tragedy into something else that suits your agenda.

Nope. I'll be damned if I allow that premise to be legitimized. It is absolute absurdity.

[Colobo]

6. Have you ever known someone with schizophrenia?

I have and, let me tell you, the things this people can do when they are off meds or taking the wrong meds are pretty barbaric.

Not their fault, though. They are sick.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Stop Making Up Facts And Minimizing His Evil.

Unless you show me where he's schizophrenic, I don't want to hear a goddamn thing about it.

As it stands right now, he's a cold blooded murderous selfish evil piece of shit scumbag that will hopefully have his soul tormented in hell. It boggles my mind that premises are being presented to make this vile piece of filth a victim somehow. What crap.

[VelmaD]

So...let me make sure I've got this...

it's not ok for someone else to speculate on why the shooter did it...but it's perfectly ok for you to do so?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. The Medication Didn't Cause Him To Commit The Evil And Utterly Contemptable Acts He Commited Today.

PERIOD.

To cop-out to such a premise is a disgrace to all the victims that suffered by his hands today. He's an evil piece of filth and I can find NO reason to try and deflect his level of evil onto something else, just for sake of speculation. I find it to be in incredibly poor taste to do so.

Now you may not agree with my strong objection to this absurdity. You're entitled. But I'm just as entitled to express it.

[Pab Sungenis]

21. No, but

the medication (if he was on it) may have caused aggravating conditions making him more likely to do what he did.

Speaking of zoloft, please calm down. Did you know someone directly affected by this shooting? If so, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I do think, however, you are overreacting somewhat to my premise.

We're all friends here, and we can discuss this civilly. Can't we?

[ismnotwasm]

76. You are certainly entitled to your opinion

But sometimes opening discussions with a speculative "why" leads to "how do we prevent this from happening again." There is a lot of work being done in preventing school violence. As well as other types of violence.

I don't see speculation as an excuse for behaviors.

[WiseButAngrySara]

23. Chuckle! (and touche) ....n/t

[noiretextatique]

64. of course...because...

s/he's "right" :7

[Colobo]

29. I don't know if he is or not

but mental patients can do very evil things. If he was not, I hope he is rotting in hell.

[SayWhatYo]

97. I would assume someone who kills 31 people to be mental...

You said mental patient, but based on the context I'm assuming you mean mentally ill. Not sure if being mentally ill excuses someone for doing horrible things... At least if you take my view, that in order to do such things you must have something mentally wrong.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

37. I was a social worker and most did their violence while OFF their meds.

I actually knew of none who did it when stabilized on their medication.

[liberalnurse]

46. How and why would someone

of severe schizophrenia be permitted to own a gun? He did own a gun as he was a very good shot. Handled with "know-how".

He was a dirtbag. No more or less. Being on Anti-Depressants is not an excuse.

I'm speculating that he is an Iraqi Veteran from this *bush 43 administration .... Maybe had too many deployments?????

[sendero]

72. SSRIs..

... are not prescribed for schizophrenia. Did you read the OP?

[SayWhatYo]

95. Hmm, I always thought most people schizophrenia are harmless.

Other than being somewhat scary for those who may not be used to it. This is based some research I did on the subject. I also have a family member who has severe schizophrenia, she talks to herself a lot and has many other issues. However, real violence hasn't been anything I've seen. There were even times in which she wasn't on meds whatever reason, and she never displayed any violent tendencies.

Anyways, I'm by no means an expert, so I'm sure someone smarter than me will explain how and why I'm wrong.

[Pab Sungenis]

9. They don't eliminate blame

but they are still an interesting common thread.

The pills didn't make the kid go on a shooting spree, but they sure as hell (if he was on them, which as I said I'm willing to bet) didn't help.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. His Shoes Didn't Help Him Avoid His Evil Either. Who Cares?

Who cares about all the things that didn't help? His shirt didn't help. His cereal he ate this morning didn't help. His pillow of choice didn't help. His hairbrush didn't help. Who gives a shit?

Until there's ANY evidence of SEVERE mental incapacity such as schizophrenia, there is NO excuse for minimizing his evil and heinous acts that he perpetrated today. None. I find the premise to be a disgrace. But to each their own opinion.

[Pab Sungenis]

15. Who the hell is minimizing his evil?

He killed at least 21 people. That's evil. However, only blaming him is like using a band-aid to treat cancer.

Treat the disease, not just the symptoms.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Ahhhh, Self-Deleted Again. LOL

[Morgana LaFey]

58. Is it evil if it's insanity of some type?

I wouldn't think so.


I'm glad you brought this up, btw. It really IS too often overlooked and absolutely underreported. In fact, it fits the category of dirty little secret, AFAIC.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. I don't believe this person was a "piece of shit"- and I don't believe it was meds- or

any other 'reason'-

I don't believe there IS a 'legitimate' reason for for being a participant in something like this- or one that is "logical" or one that folks can wrap their brains around-

But as awful as it would be to lose someone I loved to this persons actions, It would devastate me to know that someone I loved, someone I knew, someone who was close to me, was so disturbed, detached, deranged enough to not be able to stop them self from doing this.

Meds won't make you do something you don't already have dancing around in your brain.

blame doesn't change shit-

Trying to understand 'why' might help us to avoid future episodes- but I don't believe the 'drugs' are the culprit. They speak to me more of a sign that this wasn't really 'out of the blue'.

how terrible it would be to have inhabited the body that did this deed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Sorry, But A Person Who Lines Up Kids To Shoot Them Execution Style Is A Piece Of Shit.

If that doesn't make one a piece of shit, I'm not sure what could.

[Bluerthanblue]

81. the statement inside your post is the one I can agree with-

"If that doesn't make one a piece of shit, I'm not sure what could."

nothing can make a PERSON a "piece of shit".

The actions that they take may be absolutely horrible- terrible- despicable- but the person is still every bit a human being, just like you OMC, just like me-

I cannot 'imagine' doing the kinds of atrocities that are done in this world- but I am equally capable of doing any of them. I would like to think I'd take my own life before I EVER did anything even remotely harmful, but I should never be 'lulled' into complacency, or deluded into some mythical claim on 'superiority' trying to distance myself from the worst of the frailties of "human nature".

I don't WANT to 'understand' what it was like to be the person who did this- and I believe an important part of avoiding, and guarding against this comes through understanding that there is a very real capacity for 'good' and 'bad' in every single one of us.

peace,
blu

[pitohui]

53. this is not a helpful comment

think about this comment for a moment--

Meds won't make you do something you don't already have dancing around in your brain.



certainly a bad reaction to a drug can make someone do something they wouldn't normally do, as i said in another post i was threatened by a bipolar person wrongly given prozac because he was wrongly diagnosed as clincally depressed, in this case there is no real doubt that the meds made him step over a line he wouldn't normally step over

our brains are made of chemicals, to pretend that chemicals can NEVER have profound effect on actions is just silly -- it's a metaphysical belief without foundation and a way to say "this could never happen to me"

[Bluerthanblue]

63. there ARE no 'helpful' comments- and while it may not "feel" good-

you went on to state a truth that addresses the issue very correctly-
Chemicals can and sometimes DO lower inhibitions, and alter judgment, allowing a person to act on what might otherwise remain only 'fleeting thoughts'.

I will strongly disagree with you on this issue- no drug will "MAKE" someone do something like this-
I'm not 'parsing words' here- there is a difference.


There are many Bipolar people who have been on, and are on Prozac- and other SSRI's- It is not 'the wrong' medicine for the depressed period of this disorder.

It is also true that sometimes SSRI's can trigger a manic episode in people who suffer from BiPolar disorder- It is NOT common for a person with BP to strike out and harm others, it is far more likely that if violence comes, it will be in the form of self- harm.

If you want to discuss "silly metaphysical belief's that lack foundation and give society a way to insulate themselves from reality" they are really best summed up in statements like this which we hear FAR too often, such as:

"Subhuman monsters"- "Pieces of shit"- "evil people"-

underneath those labels is a very real, very HUMAN being- a being just like any other human being, just like you, just like me- just like anyone. Pretending that they are not, or that some 'medication' did some incredibly terrible thing to them, that no one could ever possibly conceive of- only enables incidents like this to happen- and happen again, and again and again.

I'm sorry you had the experience you did- but your experience is yours- not necessiarily the 'standard'.

peace,
blu

[Morgana LaFey]

60. I don't agree with you on that

Meds won't make you do something you don't already have dancing around in your brain.

I think there are some meds that can make you stark raving mad and NOT yourself. In fact, I'm sure of it, both legal and illegal.

[Bluerthanblue]

70. I'll agree that

there are substances that you can ingest that put images and reactions together in twisted ways- (BTDT) and I do believe that lowered inhibitions, altered judgement, and jumbled thoughts can result in disaster, but I don't believe we are talking about a sudden, impulsive "snapping" here- there had to be a very real degree of "premeditation" here.



"When I mention the word evil, I am not talking metaphysically. I am not theologically qualified to do so. When I talk about evil, I am talking about psychological evil, whose effects are all around us. Splitting-off from and projecting out our own darkness is an inner psychological process that explicates itself in the outer world by feeding the seemingly endless destruction in the collective body politic. In using the term psychological evil, I am being pragmatic in that I am referring to the senseless and unnecessary violence being enacted all around us whose source is to be found nowhere but within the human psyche. Psychological evil has a dis-integrative effect on the whole (both inwardly and outwardly), and is hence, anti-life."

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/triggered.html

[Morgana LaFey]

100. No, it goes farther than that

Are you aware, for instance, that meth can make people into child predators? People who may not be saints but who for damn sure didn't have such "fantasies" before meth?? That's just one example.

Carla Faye Tucker provides another. She did some absolutely horrific things while on a drug rampage -- and yet had become what I consider a saint by the time she met her Maker. Which Carla Faye was the "real" Carla Faye?

I may not be able to articulate it and bring back up data and such, but I am quite sure in my heart that there are drugs that make people into something that is not who they are in reality.

[Colobo]

5. I have diagnosed OCD and anxiety problems

and was given Zoloft. I took one and that thing made me puke everything I had eaten in the last 5 days or so. One of the most terrible experiences I can remember.

After that, I decided to try to cope with the problem by myself and, even though it's been tough, I've learned to live with this and I'm doing well.

Not to say that works for everyone, but if you can avoid meds, do so.

[la la]

35. I was prescribed zoloft

about 6 years ago. I was in my last few years of teaching and was seriously depressed--because of students, administrators, union-busting crap, NCLB at my school, blah, blah, blah.

I'm retired now, and calm and happy. I will continue to take my half zoloft every morning till I die! Otherwise, I'm liable to go off into tears, crazed personality crap and serious depression.

It helped me, I've got it's back! Some need it and it works for them- it shouldn't be dissed because of some unknown problem with the VT shooter.

[Colobo]

45. I'm glad it has helped you!

[ElizabethDC]

84. I also have OCD and anxiety problems

it took me a long time to find the right kind of medication for me, but I eventually did so (and it wasn't Zoloft). I can say it's really helped me from having panic attacks, etc., although that's obviously very different situation from being really depressed and homocidal.

My advice wouldn't be to stay away from meds entirely, but definitely to use them with extreme caution and under the guidance of a trustworthy doctor.

[Redstone]

7. I was going to reply with anger, until I read this:

"There's the rub. These pills that help millions of people with imbalanced brain chemistry lead normal lives can, if misprescribed, cause the very disorders they're meant to treat. Couple this with the "treat it with pills" mentality common in America in recent generations, and you have a ticking time bomb."

I still don't agree with your thesis in general, but it was good that you acknowledged how many people's lives have been improved, and even SAVED, by these medications.

Redstone

[Beaverhausen]

24. many people are helped, so much so that they stop taking them...

...thinking they are OK. That sometimes can really be a trigger to make them go nuts.

And yes, I've seen that one firsthand.

[Redstone]

47. I've seen it too.

Redstone

[pitohui]

8. charles whitman not on anti-depressants

whitman sought help and was told he was not ill, it was not until autopsy that the brain tumor was found

however this is a special case and doesn't invalidate your general argument

i do believe that anti-depressants or changes of anti-depressants need to be better monitored and in cases of severe illness (such as andrea yates and possibly the columbine kids) they should be given in an inpatient program until it is clear that the patient is not going to have the rare violent reaction to them -- problem is -- insurance companies do not want to pay for inpatient treatment of mental illness and patients don't want the stigma of having been hospitalized for a mental illness so both insurers and patients are strongly motivated to try the drugs instead of, rather than in combination with, in patient treatment

SSRIs also save lives, so you don't want to advocate removing them from the market altogether, some people will tell you straight up that they cannot have joy in life or even function without them, we don't want to cripple these people who are helped by removing them from the market altogether

guess i'm saying, i won't take your bet, i think there is a good chance you are right but i'm not sure where we want to go w. this information if it proves true

[Pab Sungenis]

13. No, don't ban the pills

because they do help thousands of people live normal lives. (A good friend of mine attempted suicide three times before they got him on SSRI's, and now he's functional, so I've seen what good they can do.) However, we need to avoid them being used when they shouldn't.

[Warpy]

19. Good followup meaning at least an hour with a psychologist

once a week to monitor what's going on might help identify those with bad reactions to them.

[pitohui]

32. an hour a week is completely inadequate

the guy who threatened me had his hour a week

[Cabcere]

86. Depends on the psychologist, too.

When I used to cut myself in my teens, I was referred to a psychologist who basically told me I was stupid and that I needed to get a boyfriend. :eyes:

(Not to trivialize your situation at all, btw - I'm sorry you were threatened, and I'm glad you're OK & here with us now. :hug: )

[lizerdbits]

98. I had therapy as a teen too

I went for years to 2 different therapists and even got learning disability tests even though I had done well in school before becoming depressed because they were at a loss as to why I was so miserable, and it never helped. 6 weeks on antidepressants and I was mentally much improved although I got some not so pleasant physical side effects.

P.S. I had the same 'boyfriend' suggestion from a gynecologist who thought I was just making shit up because I wanted attention. If you're over 30, single, and not a lesbian you're obviously crazy and can't get married because of course every woman wants to. :eyes:

[havocmom]

94. Yes! Real, regular evaluation, not just a pat on the head and a 'script!

The right pill can be a godsend, the wrong one can be a tragedy. Takes time and effort to make sure any particular individual gets the pill that is right for them. Takes time to educate the patient to be able to really pay attention to reactions if meds are changed. Too bad the system doesn't really allow for that sort of care for so many who need it.

Sadly, we don't seem to really care enough about good mental health care, so bad shit will keep happening.

And our society seems to be alienating people more and more. People are lonely, afraid, clueless as to where to turn for help just dealing with life. Too many people suffering and getting worse.

So very sad.

[pitohui]

31. "when they really shouldn't"

aye, there's the rub, the trouble is that if someone is severely ill and at risk of suicide then the doctor has little choice but to prescribe the pills and hope for the best, esp. if the insurer will not pay for inpatient monitoring of the patient while he or she adjusts to the drugs

a guy on prozac, a new RX, threatened me w. a gun, this is a real and serious problem that you have brought up, i know it is

my feeling is that new RXs for these drugs should be receiving some inpatient monitoring until the doc can be confident that they are having a good reaction rather than the rare bad one

problem is insurers don't wanna pay

is the problem really the drug (all drugs that do anything have side effects) or is the problem the economic system where we don't want to spend the extra $$$ for inpatient monitoring to see if someone has a bad reaction?

mental illness can be hard to diagnose, if a patient is DX as clinically depressed and really he's bipolar -- which is what happened to the guy who threatened me -- he can be a real danger to society on the wrong drug, yet if he were in a hospital setting the mistake would be caught and rectified without harm to anyone

but insurers don't wanna pay

i used to blame the pills also, but more and more i see that it's a capitalist insurance based health care system that is the real problem

my two cents of how to deal with it anyway, maybe my idea is too expensive, but in the end, how expensive is the current system? the economic impact of this one incident alone will be huge -- millions in lawsuit aga. university, millions in lost lifetime earnings of future engineers, millions lost as students leave this school and go elsewhere, and that's just $$$ costs

[WiseButAngrySara]

26. Brain Tumors can alter neuro chemistry and behavior

depending on their location. His specific case lends support to the OP IMO.

[Bluerthanblue]

77. so can lack of sugar in a brittle diabetic-

-
so can alcohol.

so can lack of proper sleep.

so can torture.

so can grief.

so can trauma.

so can many, many things.


peace,
blu

[WiseButAngrySara]

79. All too true. So can bad parenting! ....n/t

[arewenotdemo]

11. Great post

I'll bet you're right.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. I have a great idea.

At least I think it's a great idea. Why don't we wait UNTIL WE KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE CASE before we begin talking about this. All of this speculation is really perverse.

[toddaa]

73. Spoil sport

Letting facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.

[nam78_two]

101. Totally agree.nt

[Warpy]

16. Or maybe a recent Iraq vet

with untreated PTSD.

Face it, sane people don't walk into a school and blow 33 people away.

It'll be some time before he's identified. No face, no ID, no cell phone, just guns and ammo.

[slackmaster]

18. I know a sucker bet when I see one

:nuke:

[ljm2002]

20. I also would not be surprised if medications are implicated...

...note, however, it's not only "improper" use, in fact, for some of these wonder drugs, it is when the patient stops taking them that all hell breaks loose.

I did have the same thought you did, time will tell if this was a factor.

[Pab Sungenis]

25. Not taking them when they are needed

IS improper use.

These pills can do a lot of good, but they need to be more tightly controlled (by the doctors, not the government, before the lunatarians start complaining).

[kerry-is-my-prez]

27. Depressed people take anti-depressants & acts of suicide/homicide are done by depressed people.

Many times, the people just started taking the medication and it hadn't had time to take effect OR, frequently, the person was going off of the medication or were taking it sporadically.

I'm in the mental health field and there are many, many people who take anti-depressants and have no incidents.

If they got "rid" of anti-depressants, I would bet anyone that the homicide/suicide rates would go way, way up.

[Pab Sungenis]

34. I don't want to get rid of SSRI's

but I want every doctor who prescribes them to treat them as what they are: a mind altering drug. Too many doctors are writing too many prescriptions where they aren't needed, and we're paying the price.

[H2O Man]

78. Valid concerns.

I agree.

[spoony]

57. Thank you

It's not like people on antidepressants don't have enough stigma attached to them already without being looked at like we're going to snap and shoot everyone around us.

And from fellow liberals to boot.

[Bluerthanblue]

75. I'd join you in the wager- and we'd

win a nice pot-

Thank your for posting your experienced perspective.

Meds save lives.

mine is one.

[WiseButAngrySara]

28. Very interesting post. Are you really going to bet on it? ....n/t

[gollygee]

30. It's quite possible he was either on meds he didn't need, or not on meds he did need

I've known people who have had medications of various types misprescribed to them who had some pretty serious emotional issues as a result. I've also known someone who lost her job and prescription coverage and couldn't afford medication she needed. Both scenarios are incredibly sad.

Sane people absolutely commit crimes but it seems like totally random killings have some other kind of issue behind them.

[youngdem]

33. SSRI's also cause bi-polars to go manic

NOT good.

[Bluerthanblue]

40. usually not good for their own safety- not often the

welfare of others.

speaking with some degree of understanding of this condition.

[arewenotdemo]

111. that's a fact

[VelmaD]

38. let's really stir the pot...

there's also the possibility that he's just another guy who's been raised by a society that thinks the solution to a bad breakup is to try to shoot the woman and everyone around her.

[Pab Sungenis]

41. Good point.

Ours can be one screwed-up culture.

[joshcryer]

42. Are you serious? If so I'll take the bet.

Seriously. Want to bet?

[citizen snips]

43. lets wait until the facts come out.

before we rush to judgment.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

44. I will bet that they went off the medication or weren't stabilized on them yet.

It often takes a month to 6 weeks to get into a person's system.

[H2O Man]

48. Interesting.

Well done. I enjoyed the OP, and much of the discussion. And you may very well be correct.

I think that, from what has been reported on TV, you could be correct.

There are other possibilities. It will be interesting to learn more about him.

[undeterred]

49. Well, there's a way to blame someone with deep pockets.

Deeper than Virginia Techs I'm sure.

[hang a left]

50. Methamphetamine

comes to mind for me. To cause someone to go so crazy.

[BadGimp]

52. The new moon, 1.1% lit:

Call me crazy but this has to play a role imo.

[treestar]

54. What about the Michigan shooting in 1927?

Or those previous to the invention of anti-depressants?

What is wrong with taking pills if they make a person feel better? Is there some virtue in being in pain? Children's aspirin? What a joke! Is suffering the only way to build character? Healthy children will end up as weak adults, due to lack of suffering?

Depression is a real illness. It's not just the bumps and bruises of life.

Also there is no indication in the news they are involved, so why take pot shots at these drugs based on this incident until they are?

[spoony]

59. It's the same sort of thing they did with pot years ago

and still today, to an extent. Reefer Madness and all that, the subject of the fear and suspicion has now simply switched to antidepressants.

[treestar]

68. You know, I can imagine this happening in the late 60s or 70s

and the first reaction being "bet the shooter was on drugs."

[smirkymonkey]

82. Or Absinthe, which was banned in Switzerland in 1905 after a

Swiss farmer murdered his family. It was blamed on Absinthe, but the man had been a lifelong raging alcoholic, and the myth of Absinthe making people crazy has long since been debunked.

[newsjunki]

61. re

I heard he was bi-polar. He was probably off his meds. Someone who suffers a grave mental illness such as that, is a bad train wreck waiting to happen.

[EFerrari]

62. Welcome to DU, newsjunki.

I hope we learn something, this time. :(

[HuffleClaw]

65. this sounds a lot like the stuff $cientology shills spout n/t

[spoony]

83. Remarkable isn't it? n/t

[hedgehog]

66. I don't wan tto rule out anything, but I'm pretty sure that a major contributing

factor to shooting all those people is that he had a couple GUNS! It's pretty hard and rather laborious to get 33 people to stand still so they can be stabbed.


Make I make a preemptive response:

Expected reply: if some of the other students had been carrying guns, they could have shot the original shooter before he killed so many people.

Pre-emptive response: So, we should all carry guns to protect ourselves from other people with guns?

[Jamnt]

67. I'm a Pharmacist and I can't tell you the number of times

parents bring their kids in for Ritalin, Adderall, etc for ADHD and it is SO obvious that it's the parent that needs treatment, not the kid. Says a lot about our society, doesn't it?

[gatorboy]

71. Let's not blame this solely on parents.

There are enough "doctors" out there that persuade folks to put their kids on this stuff.

[BeHereNow]

74. THANK YOU!!! I concur COMPLETELY. There is a REASON these drugs have been banned in the UK

There has been a MASSIVE cover-up by the pharma KKKartel in this
country; not so in the UK. they have banned prescribing these
neuroleptic and psychtropic drugs to people under the age of 18, as you probably
already know.

W E L C O M E T O D U!
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

92. You're A Pharmacist... Not A Doctor Nor A Psychiatrist.

Therefore, you are qualified only to hand out the prescribed medication, not diagnose who requires it and why.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

85. "In most cases where these medications are actually needed..."

You wrote:
"In most cases where these medications are actually needed they are a life saver, and the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. However, when used improperly, these pills can kill."

Unless you have hard stats on how often, in what ways, and why these drugs are "used improperly," I think your post is highly irresponsible. There ARE people who need psychoactive medications and they should NOT be discouraged from taking them by others' pseudo-research opinions, stigma, or fear.

Cause-effect isn't always so clear. For example, some anti-depressant meds given to a bipolar patient can bring out mania; and of course, some meds don't work on some patients (patients may not be taking them, too!) and thus the symptoms of mental illness grow more severe, hence violence, suicide, etc.

I see no conclusive evidence that SSRIs cause depression.

[zanne]

87. Those anti-depressant side effects you mentioned....

Are exactly the same as the symptoms of depression.

[phylny]

89. Antidepressants have given a family member of mine their life back.

So, I won't be taking that bet, thanks.

Broad brush much??

[rateyes]

90. They affect people different ways...

I have a friend who says that he was given his life back by Zoloft. I was prescribed the same med (half the regular dose) and went off of them a week later...I was having, not suicidal, but homicidal thoughts...about people I love dearly. Scared me shitless. I'm glad that at (at the time) age 45 I was educated enough to quit taking the pills. Haven't had those thoughts since. Not medicated now, and doing OK.

Point is: Doctors need to keep a VERY CLOSE EYE on their patients when they prescribe these medications...Again, for some it's a life saver...for others....

My doctor didn't keep such an eye, and never asked me to call back, either. I let him know about it the next time I saw him, though.

[Liberal Veteran]

91. 1000 dollars says the student drank coca-cola once.

10000 dollars says that this student attended a university in the milky way galaxy.

100000 dollars says that the student breathed Virginia's air this morning.

Lesson? Correlation does not even come close to causation.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. !

:applause:

[AnnieBW]

99. Thank You, Tom Cruise

Care to jump over a couch now?

[MistressOverdone]

102. HUH?

you have to be kidding.

First, you speculate on something you have no idea about. Second, there are a lot of folks on DU (myself included) for whom antidepressants have worked well. AD's have saved untold lives.

Depression isn't a parlor game, and manic depression has a 20% mortality rate. Don't go impuning antidepressants, which might, in turn, encourage some folks in need of them to avoid them or stop all together.

This was not a very responsible post. It is fine to have this opinion yourself, but to broadcast it to thousands of folks is just not a good thing.

[raccoon]

103. If he had been on SSRI's (Zoloft, Paxil, etc.) and was trying to get

off them, that IMO would make more sense. Withdrawal from those things is a mofo.

[Pab Sungenis]

106. Bingo.

I meant for the "bet" to be a rhetorical device, but anyone who wished to take it up with me, you may feel free to donate an appropriate amount to whatever fund ends up being created for the victims of this massacre, or to any other anti-violence charity of your choice.

Now let's stop blaming the guns and start looking at the root causes.

[redacted]

107. I emphatically disagree and I think this is a dangerous position to take

by saying "We're overmedicating our kids and ourselves." My problem is that I'm at work and can't really post now; perhaps I'll be able to participate more later this week.

[erpowers]

108. You Might Be Right

It has just been reported on Inside Edition that the gunman might have been on anti-Depressant drugs.

[phylny]

109. It was reported that he might have been prescribed anti-depressant medications,

which is very different than being "on" them or taking them.

[Forkboy]

110. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.