Uninsured And Sick, Student Begged For His Life

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Uninsured And Sick, Student Begged For His Life

Updated: 10- 2-09 04:26 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/02/uninsured-and-sick-studen_n_306639.html



Freddie Effinger

Freddie Effinger started feeling what he called a "bizarre pain" in his upper thigh during the summer of 2007, just before his third year at the University of Alabama law school. After a scan, his doctors told him it was probably some sort of mass, nothing serious, and that they would remove it surgically in September.

Effinger, then 23, didn't have insurance. His parents' policy dropped him after college, and he had figured he could coast through three years of law school and land a job with benefits before suffering any catastrophic illness or injury. ("Superman Complex," he calls it.) The operation to remove the mass would only cost him about $1,200.

But when they operated, Effinger's doctors discovered something more serious.

"The tumor was the same size as my hand," Effinger told the Huffington Post. "And directly underneath that tumor was another tumor, and further down my leg was another tumor."

The following month, an oncologist told Effinger he had advanced stage lymphoma. The oncologist told him that his chemotherapy could cost tens of thousands of dollars per session, and that he would need 12 sessions. Effinger panicked.

"My mom's a schoolteacher and my dad's a juvenile detention officer," Effinger said. "They're good people, but that's not going to happen."

[JanMichael]

1. It's his fault! He did it to himself!!! Ugh. Platitudes and crap. Single Payer NOW!!!! nt.

[Wednesdays]

47. Personal responsibility! Personal responsibility!

:spank:

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. It's a good thing he didn't have to suffer any mandates, huh? n/t

[Kablooie]

85. Yeah. It was HIS fault. He listened to his doctors and took their advice. He didn't have to do that.

[LiberalArkie]

170. If he had just been born wealthy he would not have had that problem.

[Deja Q]

2. And yet it's Obama who wants to put in "death panels". Freepers need to wake the fuck up.

[Avalux]

3. He should ask his neighbors and the local church to help him.

That's what asswipe Eric Cantor would tell him. x(

SINGLE PAYER NOW!!!!

[invictus]

4. He should demand that those worthless pieces of shit in Congress do something besides enrich themsel

enrich themselves.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. He should send the bill to his Congressmen

camp outside their door

[flamingdem]

55. I like that. SINGLE PAYER NOW!! Though I'll be relieved if we just get the PO nt

[annabanana]

61. Yeah.. Don't they usually do *Bake Sales* for this type of thing?. . .. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

5. knr - "...but it's really demoralizing to have to beg a hospital for your life..." ..

"I'm a pretty humble guy, but it's really demoralizing to have to beg a hospital for your life, to be to be able to be treated for this thing you just found out that you had," he said. "I don't just have a right to be healthy? I have to beg for it? I have to show that I am poor? It's frustrating. It's embarrassing. It's really unacceptable."

[tkarolewics711]

6. There is absolutely no excuse for this

In a country as wealthy as ours, there is absolutely no excuse for all people not to have healthcare. Over the years, we have dropped billions of dollars on defense, on space exploration, on nation building of other countries, on tax breaks and subsidies for the wealthy, fighting oil wars, bailing out banks and automobile companies, yet we fail to try and solve the cancer that eats at our national soul. No other modern democracy treats its people in such a callous way for the sole purposes of securing massive wealth for the health insurance industry. The cause of healthcare reform should be our number 1 priority over all else. This is a battle that was begun by Teddy Roosevelt, passed on to Harry Truman, JFK, LBJ, Bobby and Teddy Kennedy, Bill Clinton and President Obama. I find it disgusting to think that a Hollywood starlet can get a facelift, tummy tuck, Botox injections, liposuction, etc., while a working parent, whose employer does not provide healthcare insurance, but who makes too much money to qualify for Medicaid, is eventually driven into bankruptcy because of a diagnosis of terminal cancer. Or even someone who worked all of their lives and has health insurance, but then is dropped after the diagnosis. Where is the justice?
The people who oppose healthcare reform are like those on a sinking ship who throw the women and children off of the lifeboat in order to save their own sorry asses.
This is a moral issue. All people should have the RIGHT to healthcare. And to the right-wing evangelical conservative christians out there: WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? Jesus would be a Democrat and Jesus would be supporting healthcare reform. This is yet another example of where the rigth is not with God, not with Jesus, they are with their own warped and selfish interests. My view is that if you are against healthcare insurance reform, there will be 45,000 souls accumulated every year in Heaven (representing the 45,000 people a year who die from a lack of health insurance) who will condemn your soul to hell.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Hard to believe that Alabama doesn't offer students a student policy. Shame.

[exboyfil]

12. They do

it is $1400/yr for $250K lifetime coverage.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. That certainly would have been $1,400 a year well spent in this case.

[TheBigotBasher]

39. Students can find $1400 a year?

Really? Only if mom and pop are rich.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. Students can work for $1400 a year.

Especially bright law students.

[Omar4Dems]

59. right on! and nearly everybody who's "unemployed" are able bodied

they need to get off their asses and get a job instead of sitting around wining about the economy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. .

:sarcasm: ?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

94. As if anyone said that.

[Zix]

130. The implication is obvious.

Do you think we're all stupid?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

149. There was no implication of that sort, regardless of your misconception.

[northernlights]

66. right. he's just too lazy to get a job in this booming economy

and besides, a grad student can earn enough to support self, pay off student loans for undergrad degree, and have $1400/year left over for insurance. :eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

95. as if anyone said that.

[Zix]

128. The implication is obvious.

Do you think we're all stupid?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

150. I'm definitely beginning to wonder about you.

[Zix]

176. What are you wondering?

And how on earth can you avoid the implication in your posts that this student was at fault for not getting his own insurance when you draw attention only to the money it would have cost him to get it rather than highlighting the obvious problems with medical care requiring insurance in your country slap bang in the middle of a huge thread extensively populated with expressions of pity for the student - on a left wing website?

Is your position that you support tax-based health care and that you then posted solely on the subject of this student's projected insurance fees and what he could or could not have done to cover the costs in the expectation that no-one would read this as a criticism of the student?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

178. My point was that under the circumstances it would have been prudent to buy student health insurance

[northernlights]

188. under the circumstances?

The circumstances are extremely high unemployment where it's nearly impossible to get a job earning a living wage, let alone one that allows you to work around your school schedule. The circumstances are tuition, fees, and books that are increasingly exorbitant and rising. The circumstances are that private supplementary loans are not available at any cost. The circumstances are that in order to get through grad school, to have a chance to "get ahead" he took a gamble that many, many many people are forced to take every day, and he lost. He shouldn't have lost -- he's young, it's not that common a disease. So the odds were in his favor.

Oh, and the circumstances are that even if he'd had insurance, when the insurer saw the pending costs they would have looked at every possible way to get out of paying and dumping him. After all, his lymphoma wasn't discovered until stage 4. Might that not make it a 'pre-existing condition?'

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

191. I have no idea.

[NickB79]

209. What circumstances would those be?

He was a seemingly healthy 23-yr old young man with no previous major health issues as far as anyone knows. He was told by his doctor that he had a non-life threatening mass in his leg that would cost less to remove than the cost of one year of health insurance.

Unless he had psychic powers to predict the future, he made what at the time was a logical choice. Only in hindsight was the tragedy of it apparent.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

215. Easy enough.

How about the fact that it's fairly easy to get sick and hospitalized at any age? If you do in fact get hospitalized if you don't have insurance you will likely go bankrupt. Until the system changes it is prudent for everyone who has access to health insurance to purchase it if at all possible.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

86. text books are upwards of $100.00 each. Immediate needs usually take precedence.

Law books probably alot more than 100 bux each, actually.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

97. He chose to skip the insurance. He never said he would have been unable to pay for it.

I never said it would have been easy for him. Just that it would have been prudent.

[Zix]

122. No, it would have been wasteful

given the numerous examples of people all over the world, like me, who have no health insurance at all, yet are guaranteed excellent health care through the taxes we pay.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

160. It certainly wouldn't have been wasteful considering he is 9k in debt now.

[Zix]

171. We seem to be talking at cross purposes.

I am opposing the system itself whereas you oppose one individual's poor use of it. Where I think we differ is this - my position is that there's little value in arguing for the wise use of a useless system, I suspect you disagree.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

180. Actually I don't disagree.

I think that under the current system, people who are eligible for insurance and can afford it should purchase it to prevent passing the cost along to others. I wish the system was different. I have lived overseas and have seen the other "socialist" systems work quite well. Having said that those other countries do not have the United States unique health problems and any single payer coverage in the US will be significantly more costly. I see definite advantages and some disadvantages. I'm not arguing for the status quo, we need to change a great many things about our health care system.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

144. no argument there...

it would have been wise.... still, we often don't do what's wise. Focusing your funds on the immediate need probably seems the most prudent decision to young healthy kids.

He didn't come from alot of $$$; textbook costs are obscene--I work at a college and I wonder how students manage to afford them on top of all the other expenses.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

161. I made a similar unwise decision in college. Appendectomy when I didn't have insurance.

It cost me about 10k. I paid everyone monthly for about 5 years until I got everyone paid. My mistake, it could have been much worse. Pretty cheap lesson for me in the long run, at least that's the way I look at it.

[northernlights]

192. half.com and amazon

My 1st 2 classes I bought the books from the bookstore. Now only if I can't find them used on half.com or amazon.com. And I don't sell them back to the school either. Get more for them on half.com. Otherwise, I couldn't continue. If I went full time and bought new, my science and medical books would cost about $1000/semester.

[prairierose]

145. Sorry to burst your little bubble but much of the" insurance "

sold to students does not pay claims. When I was in grad school, all of my friends and I bought the insurance. One of my classmates got cancer, the insurance did not pay for any of the treatment. One of my classmates got pregnant, the insurance did not pay for most of the bill. Even though they checked ahead of time to be sure that it was a "covered" condition. Everyone I knew who tried to make a claim on that insurance ended up paying the bills. And this was almost twenty years ago before insurance got as bad as it is now. Imagine, how pathetic the insurance sold to students is today.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

152. I'm well aware of the problems with student insurance.

My wife had it when she was getting her PhD. We dropped it and added her to my insurance because of the problems.

[Zix]

119. And that money should remain HIS.

And everyone ELSE should pay for his medical care and he can pay his share to the same fund from his taxes.

I am from a country where this is practiced and it is the best way.

[LeftishBrit]

148. Fully agree!

[piratefish08]

123. MOST of them are busting ass to TRY to meet their exorbitant tuition fees. Insurance falls far down

the list of priorities.

land of the free, home of the brave.

BS.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

154. What are his loans for then?

[progressivebydesign]

201. yeah, but not spending 100 bux a month on insurance is quite a different story.

You think your'e saving money doing that? You're losing money if something goes wrong. I would guess, knowing every student I have met, that more than 100 a month is spent on bullshit stuff like video games, movies, beer, etc.

[sabrina 1]

132. And what makes you think he wasn't working?

Most students are working. They have books to pay for, living expenses and they don't make much money. An extra $1,400 a year may as well be a million to many students whose parents are not wealthy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

155. You think 4 dollars a day might as well be a million. mmmmkay.

[sabrina 1]

162. Yes, but apparently you've never been there which explains

your position. Sort of like Baucus and his rightwing friends who want to issue fines of over $3,000 to those who cannot afford that amount to buy insurance in the first place.

I know people, students, who would love an extra $4.00 a day to help them buy milk for a child who isn't getting enough. That's $28.00 a week, which would buy eggs, milk, bread. Clearly you have no experience with the working poor, or students trying to get an education without parents to foot the bill. That you can dismiss what to someone who is struggling and not eating enough every day, $28.00 a week, represents the difference between starving and eating, demonstrates your lack of knowledge of how the poor live.

Let's punish everyone for being poor, that's what we're good at. Why solve problems when we have scapegoats (and more every day in this great country) to blame everything on.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

163. LOL.

Did he ask his parents to pay for the insurance? We don't know. Was he working a job? We don't know. Does he ever go out to eat? I'm guessing yes. The article doesn't leave me with the impression that he is dirt poor and living hand to mouth. He sounds like a law student from a middle class family that decided to spend what money he does have on things other than insurance.

[sabrina 1]

168. You're making assumptions again.

What we do know is that he had a serious health-care issue that he could not afford to pay for. You're also assuming that this cheap insurance is available now, when it is not, even if he could have afforded it. You're forgetting too that it was too late to buy insurance even if he found the money somehow, because he had a pre-condition.

You're assuming that he would rather eat out and maybe die, than use that pitiful amount of money to save his own life, as if it would.

Are you also assuming that the 45,000 Americans who have died over the past number of years as a result of not being able to buy HCI were doing disgusting, selfish things like eating, also?

The point is, that no one in this country should have to choose between food and health-care.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

179. You are the one making assumptions.

He admitted he could have gotten a student health policy and decided against it he called it the "Superman Complex". Clearly it's not available after he was diagnosed with a tumor. No one should have to choose between eating and buying insurance. It would be nice if people that could afford insurance and are eligible for it would purchase it instead of passing the cost along to others.

[sabrina 1]

189. There's no need to pass the cost along to others.

A Single Payer System would solve that problem. It would also be cheaper, and no one would have to pay premiums, not individuals and not employers. Some of that saved money could be used to pay higher salaries and everyone would be able to afford a slight increase in their taxes, still a lot less than they pay in premiums and co-pays. The very poor, disabled and elderly would be covered by all of us. And the one third in profits that now go to the Insurance Industry, would go directly to health-care costs instead of paying for advertising and outrageously high CEO salaries, for doing nothing that can be done without them.

Health-care is and should be a right as it is in every other developed country. No one should be making petty arguments about whether a healthy 23 year-old student should have been thinking about death and illness and because he didn't, which is normal for young people that age, be held responsible for the 'rest of us' having to cover him. I don't mind helping to save a life. I do mind spending money on people who do not value life, but whose main purpose is profits of which they cannot have enough even if it means letting someone die.

With a national health-care system, no one would have to spend their young lives thinking about dying and spending what little money they have, which most will not benefit from, to further enrich those who do not need it. They serve no purpose other than to eat up money that should be going towards actual health-care.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

196. Why do you keep insisting on arguing about a system that isn't in place for a past case?

[sabrina 1]

202. Why do you keep arguing that this one student is costing

the rest of us money, iow, blaming him, while you fail to place the blame on a system that badly needs changing?

You have tunnel vision, focusing on this one case when in reality he is not representative of most 23 year-olds in the sense that it is not outrageous to think at that age, that you would be wasting money on something you will not need by paying into a corrupt system, and you have time to wait until you are older and employed? That money is better spent on books, on living expenses etc. Why does this country treat its citizens this way?

You focus is narrow. His situation is a perfect example of all that is wrong about the system we now have. And it makes the case for a national healthcare system. Is it any wonder that on the 'happiness' scale of countries whose citizens state how they feel about their lives, the US is pretty low in terms of the way their citizens feel about life in general. All people are asking for is what most other countries take for granted.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

207. His situation isn't a perfect example. It's a bad example

He had access to health insurance and chose not to get it. He didn't cost everyone money. He took charity money that could have been used to help people without access to health insurance.

[sabrina 1]

212. You make my point. You are still blaiming him.

He should not have had to take charity, or to have paid into a corrupt system while going to school. Why are Americans dependent on charity to take care of them? Name one other developed country where this situation would even be an issue?

I do not want to fight with you. Clearly you have grown up in a system that is so wrong on so many levels, but you have nothing to compare it to so you try to defend the indefensible. I did not grow up here. I grew up in a country where no one had to worry about health-care, so I am shocked at the acceptance by Americans of a system that allows tens of thousands of its citizens to die every year, and they simply shrug it off, or worse, try to defend it. Do you know how shocking that is to the rest of the world?

I don't think you understand how this is viewed around the world. Arguing that this young student is a burden on society because he become seriously ill? An outrageous defense of a draconian system that has become deadly to Americans. I hope one day America moves forward and looks at this the way the rest of the civilized world sees it. It is like an abused spouse. They don't realize how abused they are until they escape and have a chance to look back at what they tolerated and realize how insane it all was.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

214. I am not arguing for the status quo. He isn't a prefect example.

He made a serious miscalculation. He has a bad attitude in regards to charity. He isn't to blame for his illness. He is to blame for choosing not to get health insurance when it was available to him. Whether or not things should be the way they are has nothing to do with this discussion.

[sabrina 1]

217. He is not to blame. He made a fairly reasonable calculation.

Millions of people his age make the same calculation. That they are healthy. That with their limited resources they have to make a choice as to where to spend them. A calculation that should not even have to be made. He was unlucky in a country that punishes the sick. Now, you claim he should have known better. Most Americans are sadly too confident that they live in a caring society, until they get sick. That was his only fault.

What you're really saying is that he should have realized the draconian system he lives under and bet on getting sick under that system. He should have judged his country to be one that will not take care of its sick, its underprivileged, its poor and elderly. He clearly did not realize the kind of system he lives under. He had more faith in his country obviously than it deserved. But now, more and more Americans have had to wake up to the realization that their government, despite all the flag-waving, really doesn't care about them at all. This student certainly learned the hard way.

True, if he had realized the depth of corruption, the complete disregard of his govenrment for the well-being of its citizens, he might have made a different decision. But that would mean acknowledging that he lives in a country that puts profits before the lives of its citizens and few people are willing to acknowledge that. It's a pretty painful thing to come to terms with.

But by going along with it, by buying into the corruption, it only prolongs the agony. His decision, no different from hundreds of thousands of other students his age, may in the long run, contribute to the change that is so badly needed. Because if everyone just goes along, as they have, it will only get worse although it's hard to imagine anything worse than allowing tens of thousand of people to die, many more tens of thousands of people who had coverage, to be forced to file for bankruptcy after being diagnosed with a life threatening illness. It really is a shocking state of affairs.

Do you not see that by going along with it you only perpetuate it and make it worse? While he did not do what he did deliberately, his situation does indeed highlight the horror of a system that should long ago have been fixed but wasn't, because people bought into it, out of fear for their lives.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

224. Little old me in responsible for all that. I didn't know I was that important.

[stevenleser]

133. He probably already is. How do you think he affords food and room and board and

tuition and books?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

164. From the article, student loans.

[progressivebydesign]

200. a HUNDRED dollar a Month?? Anyone can find 100 bux a month if they had to..

his parents are not destitute.

[appleannie1]

83. The article stated it would not have covered it even if he'd had it

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. The article did not say that. In the end he was covered for all but 9k of the treatments.

[SandWalker1984]

101. $250K won't cover the costs of his treatments

I know, my brother is a 5 year cancer survivor and his costs for treatment ran over $1.4 MILLION dollars. Because he was a fireman, he had good insurance. His being a union member is what allowed him to have the treatment he needed to survive. Otherwise, he would be dead now.

A long time family friend is fighting a battle with his insurance company because he is having rectal bleeding (he had to receive 10 pints of blood in 3 months) but the doctors his insurance company sent him to keep claiming they cannot find anything wrong and refuse to refer him to a specialist. He is afraid he will die without proper treatment, which he cannot afford on his own.


Our health care system is a diaster because it is built upon the idea of profits, not care.

Congress is unlikely to do anything meaningful to change this because they are beholding to those corporations for their cash donations (which are, in reality, our premiums that should have gone to health care but are being spent on buying legislation to kill us).

The Baucus bill is all about more $$$$ for the insurance industry and very little about health care reform.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

165. In the end he only owes 9k. The 250k of coverage would have helped.

[mopinko]

153. schools here require you to buy it.

unless you can show them proof that you have other insurance.
is $1400 some money? yeah, it's probably about half his book bill.

[Swamp Rat]

8. He should cut off his own leg and pull himself up by his remaining bootstrap.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. He should have invested in a student health policy.

[Swamp Rat]

19. How? With what money?

I'm a working student and cannot even afford the shitty health insurance at my university.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. $120 bucks a month. I'd be finding enough work to cover the cost.

Lots of law students clerk for lawyers and make decent money.

[Swamp Rat]

21. Easy for you to say.

Some of us do not have the luxury of "finding enough work to cover the cost."

[Chulanowa]

24. Don't mind FMD

He's basically Captain Awesome.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. That's Chief Awesome to you. LOL.

:toast:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. That is true.

Slightly more difficult to believe for a law student though.

[Ms. Toad]

27. Clerk - yes

Make decent money - no. About a decade ago the pay was about $8.00 - $10.00 an hour, with law school restrictions on how many hours you could work.

That said, catastrophic coverage is not that expensive (a couple hundred dollars a year for deductibles ranging from $1000 to $10,000 a year, with copays generally up do double the deductible).

I have carried during times when I had virtually no income, just to make sure I wasn't totally wiped out if something like this happened. It's a good option for generally healthy people in a crunch. Add the cost of insurance to the loan and be safe.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. The policy he didn't get was $1400 a year.

Our rookie firefighters start at $9.50 an hour. $10 an hour a decade ago sounds like decent money.

[Ms. Toad]

37. I'm just disputing your characterization of

how much money law clerks make - particularly when you compare it to most other jobs requiring a bachelor's degree.

[Mabus]

91. I hear you

When I was in law school a lot of attorneys didn't pay that much for legal interns because they didn't have to. We were like Bic disposable lighters for some of them. They'd want us to sign up for work-study, to help cut their costs, and once that was used up you could lose your job. They didn't mind because there was always another law student with work-study to take up where you left off.

Not to mention that if you did the same thing I did, take part in the law schools clinical programs where we did pro bono work for credit and experience, it really cuts into the hours when you can take a job. I ended up having to quit one job I had during law school because I needed to be in court during my real job's working hours. I managed to make it through three clinical programs by working as a research assistant for various professors. Working at the law school for profs meant I had a more flexible schedule so I could make court dates during the day and meet with incarcerated clients during visiting hours. In my last year I was hired as a student intern for one of the clinics. The pay, this was back in the mid-90's, was a whooping $520/month. That money supplemented what money got from scholarships and loans and went toward things like parking fees, food, my share of the rent, gas for my car, study materials (Horn books, commercial outlines, paper, ink, etc.), and clothes (usually from thrift stores) for court, client and prosecutor meetings.

And, as I recall, at the beginning of the semester it wasn't unusual to spend close to a $1,000 on books and other required material. Law school isn't cheap but a lot of practicing attorneys are.

[Ms. Toad]

111. Sounds about right.

As a full time mom, attending classes was about the most I could manage outside of the home - so I worked my tail off academically and got some scholarships throughout, including piecing together a full scholarship my last year. I took out the maximum interest free loans I could every year, which paid for books and living expenses (including purchasing student insurance part of the time, and catastrophic health insurance the rest), rolled the loans into our mortgage when I graduated, before the interest started accruing. I did do some work as a TA - for somewhere between $6 and $8 an hour - about what my friends who were clerking made - but I could do that work on my own time at home.

[Mabus]

124. I was a non-trad student too

except I was single with no kids but I did help take care of my elderly grandmother and my mom in their final days. Grandma lived in town and I would go by four or five times a day to check on her and give my aunt a breather.

After my grandma was in a car accident (she was a passenger) she had trouble walking. She was 97 at the time of the accident and never fully recovered. She passed away, six months into her 100th year, and a week into my first 2L summer session. Then, near the end of my 2nd year, we found out my mom was dying. She called the Thursday before finals and the doctor was giving her anywhere from a week to six months. I thought about it most of the night and ended up going in the next morning and arranging to take time off from school immediately to go be with her. Aside from basically losing a semester, I also lost my scholarships and my jobs. But it was worth it. I only had one mom. I got to spend the last few months her and some time with dad helping him get adjusted to life without her. And, during that period, I took a job hanging wallboard for more money an hour than I made as a legal intern.

I don't envy what you had to go through to go to school. There were a number of other older students that were raising families and I don't know how they did it.

[Ms. Toad]

136. Sounds as if I had it easier than you did.

My first year was rough, since none of their segregated schedules fit a noon-time run to transfer a daughter from one kindergarten (public) to a second (Montessori). I got bounced between the different 1L packs - and into the 2L evening group for one class.

After that, it wasn't bad - of course I would be a professional student if anyone would pay me to do that...

I have a supportive spouse - we take turns going back to school. She's working on the 4th degree between us during our 28 years together - a PhD in sociology (at age 57). I'd love to go back and get a PhD in applied math or physics - but for the time being I'm supporting two students (spouse and daughter) so until someone else in the family is gainfully employed and can provide health insurance I'll just have to dream.

For what it's worth - you made the right choices with your mom and grandmother. It isn't always easy, but jobs and scholarships can be replaced (or their loss worked around). Family can't be.

[Mabus]

140. Thankfully I come from a large family

For my grandma, I had an uncle who ran a pharmacy and medical supply store, one who is a doctor of geriatrics, two aunts and half a dozen cousins or siblings. We worked together but since I lived the closest and could miss an occasional class, I was one of two people (along with a retired aunt) that could spend large blocks of time with her. For mom there was me, dad and about seven siblings and their spouses and kids.

I'm with you on the professional student thing. I love to learn and was a semi-professional student for close to twenty years. I was doing fine until the computer age caught up to me. Once the university synchronized their records they called me in to discuss my graduation date. I had over 200 credit hours and was about six hours away from half a dozen degrees in everything from anthropology to accounting. I finally settled on a history degree and then applied to law school.

I have no regrets. And, given the same set of circumstances, I would do it over again. Besides, things worked out very well. When I went back to school I ended up sitting to a guy in class who became one of my study buddies. He ended up introducing me to a friend of his that invited me to a meeting (several years later) where I met my husband. btw, you two sound like us. My husband is several years older than I am (he's 54) and he's been talking about going back to school too. Which is why I am now pursuing a for-profit position so he can do just that. Since he and I hooked up, I've been helping him with his patent (IP) practice and doing pro bono research for various grassroots groups, mostly in the field of environmental and American Indian.

[Ms. Toad]

141. I'm not quite as bad as you. . .

I finish my degrees in the standard time frame - I just keep going back for more.

Good luck in your job search.

[northernlights]

194. um, do you know how stafford loans work?

You can't just "add the cost of insurance to the loan." The school decides how much it costs to attend and that limits how much you can borrow. Their figure does not include insurance. It includes tuition, books, gas money for transportation and stops there or, if the school has dormitories, room and board.

Private supplemental loans are no longer available, except from one bank that still offers them if you have $11K+ in income. Which will knock back your qualifications for stafford loans, which are "needs based."

So to earn $11K+ per year, you need to find a half time job that pays $11/hour and that will work their schedule around your school schedule. Then you can borrow through the private loan system. Good effing luck with that.

[LeftishBrit]

63. Difficult to work when you're desperately ill and having chemo

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

98. Please read the story before commenting.

[Violet_Crumble]

137. And you should get the point of the story before commenting....

The entire point is that people shouldn't have to join private health funds or else risk dying. There must be a proper universal healthcare system available to all Americans that operates in similar ways to those in other countries like my own.....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. I don't have a problem with that. That's not the way things work right now.

[Zix]

120. And that money should remain YOURS and NOT go to insurance companies

...for which, demonstrably, through many examples throughout the civilised world, there is no need.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. Again you are speaking of the way things should be not the way they are.

[EFerrari]

23. It wouldn't have covered him:

"He said he was told that the school's health plan for students wouldn't have adequately covered chemotherapy treatment at the nearby University of Alabama at Birmingham Hospital."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. 250k of coverage would have gone a long way.

[EFerrari]

33. I know too many people who've had to deal with cancer

and the only really good story I know is my cousin's. She's an executive with Wells Fargo and they've been great about covering her and holding her job. She had two kids in college and it could have been really, really bad all around had she not been covered so well.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. In the end he only owes 9k. The 250k of coverage would have helped.

[riderinthestorm]

81. My husband's first bout of treatment for lymphoma costs close to a million dollars.

Yeah, that $250k would have "helped" but we'd still be bankrupt.

So would Eddie - it's just that his hole would be deeper but he'd still be SOL. Don't talk to me about "personal responsibility". We have insurance but are about to meet the lifetime cap. Now what?

Eddie's about to discover he's not insurable now at any price. Nobody will touch him.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

93. He's done with treatment he is 9k in debt not bankrupt.

He'll be covered under an employers plan when he gets a job.

[riderinthestorm]

107. How do you know he'll be covered under his employer's plan?

That's a huge jump.

1. Small businesses (like a small law practice) typically don't offer insurance.
2. Or it's the crappiest of the crap with an 80/20 co-pay that WILL bankrupt him even with the insurance company's payout.
3. If he practices solo, he won't be able to get insurance. There won't be any insurance company that will touch him.
4. Large firms have the luxury of screening people like the gentleman in the OP. Not hiring someone with that kind of pre-existing condition is done all the time because that addition to THEIR group policy is problematic and expensive. And lymphoma isn't curable. It goes into remission but it can't be cut out and eradicated. The guy in the OP is a huge red flag to any HR person since he WILL relapse.
5. Even if he DOES manage to get into a big firm, and he gets their insurance, his lymphoma won't be covered because it's a pre-existing condition. It will be excluded.

I can go on all day. I'm living this scenario right now. We're lucky in that our farm is doing well enough we can carry insurance for my husband even at the extortionist rates we pay. But even that won't matter once (when) he relapses as his benefits will be finished.

[Zix]

126. He SHOULDN'T be covered with an employer's plan

There shouldn't BE an employer's plan, employers shouldn't be paying for health insurance any more than HIM. EVERYONE IN YOUR COUNTRY should be paying for his healthcare AND YOURS and his employers via taxes.

[geckosfeet]

139. +1

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

146. I've got no problem with that. That's not the way things work right now though.

[Zix]

151. Alright, then, Dave.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

157. Just walked back in the door. Hard to respond from the baseball diamond.

[Zix]

169. ?

[Selatius]

175. Probably not. His employer's health insurance company would probably deny him.

"Pre-existing condition."

It's in most contracts that are signed between employers and health insurance companies as well as between individuals and health insurance companies.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

213. Sometimes.

My cities HMO covers preexisting conditions after you have had the insurance for a year. Our insurance cannot deny an individual employee who selects their plan.

[Lars39]

104. He only got treated at all because he was a charity case.

What's going to happen to the indigent when the hospital's charitable fund runs out?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

166. Hopefully we will have some reform that addresses that.

[Zix]

118. He shouldn't owe anything.

EVERYONE should pay FOR him and he can join in and pay for everyone else, just like in any other civilised country.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

167. In an ideal world, I agree.

[LeftishBrit]

220. self-delete (dupe)

[LeftishBrit]

221. An 'ideal world' here = the real world in almost all developed countries nowadays

[Wednesdays]

48. Personal responsibility! Personal responsibility!

:spank:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. It would be nice if more people practiced it.

[LeftishBrit]

64. It would be nice if more people had a bit of human sympathy for a young person who may be dying

[AllieB]

65. Don't expect it from Mr. Ayn Rand above

he never met a RW or Libertarian talking point that he didn't love. :eyes: That he remains here is puzzling.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

203. His treatments were successful. I'm glad it worked out for him.

I hope after this incident he bought a health insurance policy.

[LeftishBrit]

222. I hope he'll be fine

but one doesn't know whether cancer treatments are successful for at least 5 years.

'I hope after this incident he bought a health insurance policy.'

I hope there was one that was willing to insure him with his health record.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

223. Me too. That's one of the reasons we need reform.

[HughBeaumont]

113. Why the hell are you on this site?

Really, why the HELL are you on this site?

You seem to "devil's advocately" defend most things right-leaning libertarian, right wing and corprocratic.

Show some fucking empathy and realize not everyone who has a bad break in life has it because it's their fault.

[Zix]

117. You know that's a great question.

Sometimes I think Dave's a clever-clogs guys who's throwing up the bone for us to chew on so lurkers can see.

Then I think, naw, he's just another libertarian.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

204. To discuss issues with like minded people, why else?

[Zix]

116. It would be better still if people like you didn't equate illness with "responsibility"

as if falling ill is like trying to evade paying your tax or something.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

205. His illness doesn't have anything to do with personal responsibility.

His decision to not get health insurance does.

[arikara]

121. Do you like to go out teabagging

on your days off?

Seriously.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

206. I support health care reform, why would I protest it?

[Hepburn]

69. Is that you....

...Mr. Baucus?

:puke:

[olegramps]

70. Can I conclude from your handle that you are a paramedic?

If so, what type of coverage are you provided? In my city the police and firemen, who are unionized, have excellent benefits including health insurance and terrific pensions that we, the citizens pay for. It always seemed strange to me that most of the police and firemen-women are staunch Republicans but are the recipients of all these awful "socialized benefits."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

210. Where did you get the idea I was against "socialized benefits"?

I am a paramedic and executive fire officer. My benefits are pretty standard. Worse than my previous jobs, but pretty standard when compared to non-government jobs. I can't speak to your city but our pensions aren't paid for with taxes. You must be from a very repub area if all the cops and firefighters are repubs. The IAFF almost always supports Democrats.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Yep. He should have forgotten about rent and food and bought health insurance!

:sarcasm:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

211. Maybe he should have just asked his parents to pay for it.

[Zix]

115. NO. The Government of his COUNTRY should have removed the necessity for insurance YEARS AGO.

[LWolf]

75. That's the American way.

:(

[BrklynLiberal]

135. I truly thought that amputation was the alternative they were going to offer him!!!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

208. Not likely for lymphoma, highly likely for an advanced bone cancer.

[varelse]

177. Your reply is so good I'm sending a link to it, along with the link to the article

It's NICE to have you back here, Swamprat.

[Ex Lurker]

10. I have to wonder at the nonchalant attitude of the DR...

"don't worry, we'll take it out in a few months?" WTF? An unknown mass is nothing to play around with.

[elias7]

60. Where do you read nonchalance?

The text does not anything about taking it out "in a few months", it says he started feeling a "bizarre pain" during the summer, just before his third year at the University of Alabama law school. After a scan, his doctors told him it was probably some sort of mass, nothing serious, and that they would remove it surgically in September.

He could have first consulted a physician at the end of August and got it taken out 1 week later. We don't have the details. You're reading something into the article that is not there.

What doesn't make sense to me is if there was a "scan", how would additional masses not be seen; and given the location, why would lymphoma (with spread to adjacent lymph nodes, hence multiple contiguous masses) not be suspected. I think his statement that it was "probably" a mass and "nothing serious" should have read, "definitely a mass, probably nothing serious" and I would imagine he was told it in that fashion so as not to terrify him. Imagine if he was told, it's a mass, it could be cancer. Sometimes getting news in stages works better, especially if there isn't certainty. I think we would need to hear from all parties on this one before rendering judgment.

BTW, I am a physician.

[riderinthestorm]

109. Just a lymphoma side note, it's a very slow growing cancer.

My husband's largest tumor (he has 6) was the size of a cantaloupe in his abdomen when it was discovered. With that size the oncologists speculated the lymphoma had been present for a "couple of years!" My husband never had a single sick day, never had any symptomology. He had what he thought was an acute appendicitis attack, and when the xrays came back they showed the abdominal tumor had finally grown to such a size it had blocked his ureters. His kidneys were blocked and finally gave out a shriek.

I know that's TMI but the point is that after the surgeries to place stents and do biopsies, we were told we had a lot of time to discuss treatment options since lymphoma grows so slowly we could shop around. My husband started his chemo after his "busy" season ended, a full 5 months after the lymphoma was diagnosed.

[exboyfil]

11. The student health insurance plan is $1400/yr.

The write up said that it would not have helped in his case, but where is the proof. The lifetime max is $250,000 which may or may not have been exceeded by the chemo treatments. Granted he could have been refused payment by the insurance company, but I did not see that line of the story investigated.

He can pay $100K for his law school education, but he cannot do the prudent thing to carry this insurance?

Actually I think this is a symptom of one of the problems with this whole healthcare discussion. I get a strong undercurrent of something for nothing from it. $1400/yr is a bargain for insurance, but this individual is still willing to take the moral hazard of expecting other folks to cover his medical bills.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to see a German style health care system in the U.S. I have recently read a bunch of posts from union workers that basically say that they refuse to see their cadillac plans go away. I have also read the same for public workers. Both of these groups, in general, have better plans than average salaried individuals. We are all going to have to make sacrifices to get to a single payer system.

To get away from chemo treatments only owing $9,000 is amazing. My annual deductible for my plan is $4,300, and I probably make a lot less than he does. My daughter's CTScan (less than five minutes) was $1,000. My other daughter's braces are over $3,000. I am not complaining, but I am trying to put $9,000 in perspective since he is complaining about it.

His story would have been far more compelling if he bought the student insurance and still got screwed trying to use it.

[Merlot]

17. Student policies don't cover a lot

mostly things like broken bones, minor illnesses. At least that's what my schools policy was. really wasn't worth it. Maybe that's why the write up said it would not have helped in his case. It probably didn't cover expensive stuff like chemo.

And you say he "can pay $100K for his education" but probably he's taking out more than that amount in student loans for tuition and living expenses.

[conflictgirl]

18. WHAT? Don't you realize he is almost certainly paying for his education on loans, not cash?

$1400 may be a "bargain" for insurance to you, but to a poor student it is not. You said you probably make a lot less than he does - how do you figure? He is a STUDENT!! How much do you figure he makes? Do you realize that most students do not earn any money, and if they do it's usually part time, minimum wage or so? If he's a teaching assistant he likely makes no more than about $20,000 a year and that usually goes toward paying his tuition and living expenses. When I was a student there was no way I could've spent $100+ a month on health insurance premiums.

The average law student usually graduates with more than $100,000 in student loan debt, and unless they graduate in the very top of their class at one of the top schools, they're not going to make the big bucks. Your envy of him being a law student is loud and clear but unjustified.

[exboyfil]

22. I was not making anything when I went back to

graduate school. I still got the insurance. It is only prudent. I am not envious of him being a lawyer - I have two Masters degrees myself, but I do believe the story would be much more compelling if he did take ownership for his own actions (and that includes getting the heavily subsidized insurance).

[EFerrari]

26. The article says that his chemo would not have been covered.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. He said he was told his chemo wouldn't have been covered. In the end he only owes 9k.

[Selatius]

172. That's because they made him into a charity case. What if they had no more room for him?

He'd be a dead man by now.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

182. So you have a problem with him accepting the charity of others?

[Selatius]

183. Where did you get that conclusion? You sidestepped the main thrust of my post. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

184. Which was?

[Selatius]

185. The second question of my previous post.

To rephrase, what if they simply had no more funds for charity care in his case? He'd likely die. The current health care system needs serious reform, and until it is, it is difficult to say that all situations like his would end well.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

186. Who said the system wasn't in serious need of reform?

It is impossible to speculate with what might have happened, which is why I didn't take your question seriously, sorry.

[Selatius]

187. So, if he wasn't covered by charity, what do you think his chances of living would be?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

190. It is impossible to speculate an what might have happened.

Maybe the college would collected the money. Maybe a rich donor would have covered it. Maybe he would have died. Maybe he would have become eligible for medicaid. Speculation is impossible at this point.

[Selatius]

193. You just demonstrated the main thrust of my point.

The fact that you threw out four "maybe"s in your response shows the sheer amount of uncertainty that exists with the current system in place. If he were a German or Canadian or French student, he wouldn't be panicking over cost. He'd just be worried about the effectiveness of the treatment.

A piece of mind is something a universal system would give to people as far as personal finances go. Not that anybody here was seriously arguing against such a system. But I suspect I'm preaching to the choir.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

195. I'm not arguing against health care reform.

[liberalhistorian]

53. The student policy would

NOT HAVE COVERED THE CHEMO. What part of that don't you understand/

And that's true of most student policies, they usually don't cover more serious treatments like that. Mine sure didn't when I was in college. Minor illnesses, some tests, broken bones, etc., but sure as hell not chemo or any other heavier, more serious treatment. And most of them aren't designed to cover things like that.

[sudopod]

57. Where are these people coming from tonight?

is there a full moon? O_o

You and Ms. Toad are made of win, at least.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. In the end he only owes 9k.

He said he was told that the insurance wouldn't have covered it. We have no idea if they would have or not.

[Selatius]

173. You keep mention "in the end...9k." He was made into a charity case. If not, he'd be a dead man.

Because the article states the student policy wouldn't have covered chemo.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

181. Again the article doesn't say that.

The article says that he says he was told that it wouldn't have been covered. Whether or not it would have actually been covered, was not addressed by the article. Hopefully when he is a successful attorney he will remember the charity of others and do likewise for someone else in need.

[Ex Lurker]

45. geez, it was a hundred bucks a semester when I ws in school

of course that was 20+ years ago, but still. The ins company has to be making a killing, no pun intended. How often do 18-22 year olds require hospitalization?

[Feron]

13. I long for the day that....

tip jars, bake sales, car washes, and charity appeals for health care in general become obsolete in America.

The sad part of the story is that while Effinger got the needed care, he is now uninsurable. Hell even with health insurance, there's no guarantee that you'll get the health care you need.

I wish him all the best.

[Traveling_Home]

16. Hmmmmmm - He thinks he's better than ME!!!

"...I have to show that I am poor? It's frustrating. It's embarrassing. It's really unacceptable."

Well, duh It's called welfare or SSI, food stamps, sec 8, etc.

I'm not sure I'm sympathetic with this attitude. What - he's better then us regular poor folks?

Probably why he's a lawyer and I'm not. I have to show my income/assets to qualify for all sorts of government programs. Why should he be any different?

[Raineyb]

49. Why should applying for these these programs be unnecessarily onerous.

You do realize that they deliberately make the application process as humiliating as possible to try to get people to turn away right?

[G_j]

25. doesn't he know there's charity?

:sarcasm:

[valerief]

31. It's time to storm the Bastille, kiddies. Those Marie Antoinette Congressfreaks

gotta go!

[Odin2005]

36. Healthcare is a FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT!!!

[pws]

40. At their own corresponding expense.

As no one has a fundamental right to expect anyone else to finance their existence.

But all should expect that everyone should have access to heathcare and be correspondingly responsible for any costs incurred; thereby the objective must be to get costs under control, so all may mutually and fairly benefit.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[Zix]

114. Collective expense in my country, thanks.

Guess what? In my country everyone DOES have a fundamental right to expect other people to finance their existence. Works just fine, thanks.

[pws]

38. Problem as usual, is democratic politicians focus on the wrong problem

Instead of focusing on how to get everyone else to pay for insanely priced treatments, focus on the real problem, cost; there is no rational reason why it should cost any where near $10k to have poison injected into anyone for even as long as several hours per session; even if each patent had 100% of the attention of several nurses and physicians during the process, which none do. The reality is most of the medical establishment, inclusive of everyone ranging from the pharmaceutical, insurance, through healthcare organizations rip the sick (or rather everyone who actually pays) off, it's their business; and the democratic proposal does nothing but to further feed this system for their indirect political benefit; any benefits which some may receive above and beyond what they may already access will be purely incidental, not anyone's true objective.

Want cost effective healthcare, insist on policies which force cost effective competition; not forced subsidization of an inherently greedy, corrupt, and inefficient industry.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

42. "The real problem"...

"The tumor was the same size as my hand," Effinger told the Huffington Post. "And directly underneath that tumor was another tumor, and further down my leg was another tumor."

Since you appear to have missed it.

Welcome to DU.

[pws]

44. Reading comprehension problem?

"The following month, an oncologist told Effinger he had advanced stage lymphoma. The oncologist told him that his chemotherapy could cost tens of thousands of dollars per session, and that he would need 12 sessions. Effinger panicked."

[Raineyb]

51. He panicked because HE HAD NO EFFIN' INSURANCE

And you would too if you had to try to figure out how to pay for such treatment out of pocket. Something people in civilized countries don't have to worry about.

[pws]

72. Wrong again.

In most "civilized" countries he'd be placed on a waiting list, and likely die before receiving necessary treatment if even available. Again the problem is the excessive pricing being charged for procedures which by all reason should cost a fraction, and thereby enable more cost effective access.

[AllieB]

76. Wrong again, fair visitor: "In most "civilized" countries he'd be placed on a waiting list"

Got any links to back that up? For advanced-stage lymphoma, there usually is no waiting list in 'civilized' countries like Canada and France. Again, the onus is on you to provide links to back up the RW assertion that you posited.

[pws]

79. please see:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-180874/Chemotherapy-rationing.html

(There's no magic in the world, can't generally expect to get more than you pay for; pay for less, get less; otherwise eventually the system enabling such implodes.)

[AllieB]

80. It states 'ONE of Britain's leading cancer hospitals" will have to ration care.

How do you extrapolate ONE hospital in the UK having to ration care to all the systems in other countries that have universal healthcare? Did Sean Hannity tell you that?

[LeftishBrit]

87. The Daily Mail is the British tabloid equivalent of the American RW talkshows

Full of RW ideology and totally unreliable about news. I wish people wouldn't keep treating at as a valid source on a liberal board.

[JawJaw]

92. Daily Mail Criticises NHS.. Whoddathunk?

There may be no magic in the world, but somehow you manage to conjour up a SIX YEAR OLD Daily Mail story to prop up your flaccid argument..

In fact, the Christie Hospital Trust cited in the article has since become a pioneer in T-Cell therapy. Hardly the sign of a system "imploding"

If you insist on using the NHS as an example of the evils of a socialised medical system, please use slightly more up to date statistics.

For example, 99.5% of patients urgently referred by their Doctor for cancer treatment are seen within 14 days.

http://www.performance.doh.gov.uk/cancerwaits/2008/q3/can_14.html

[pws]

100. And who pays, someone else; sorry basic math dictates it's impossible.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/21/this-is-what-government-rationed-health-care-looks-like/

http://www.providence.org/alaska/services/heart/facts.htm

Given the probability of dying from cancer, prior to surcoming to something else potentially as expensive to attempt to treat, is about 20%-20%; who exactly do all naively expect to finance this at a current cost upwards of potentially 100's of thousands of dollars per person, especially as other ailment may become more effectively treated, the probability of dying of cancer will only increase, as all bodies have a natural limited lifespan, no matter how much of other peoples money is attempted to be thrown at the problem. Who pays, someone else other than one's self apparently, sorry it's impossible; although irresponsible, all are free to ignore facts at their own and others peril.

[JawJaw]

112. Who Pays?

Everybody does - out of general taxation. That's the civilised way.

Nobody is pretending that there's a bottomless pit of funding, and that any heath system can afford every treatment for every paitent.

But whilst you show an example where Tarceva has not been approved by a Government run health service, there are other examples where Tarveca has not been approved by insurance companies:

http://a.abcnews.com/m/screen?id=3389038&pid=248

So, where does the money come from?

The UK could scrap its proposed Trident nuclear missile system for a start. That would save us tens of billions of pounds which would be spent on something that will be used, rather than something that never will be used.

If the US trimmed its military budget from that of an empire to that of a republic, I'm sure it would have more than enough to create a free-to-use health service that would rank with any in the world.

[pws]

143. We're already operating in deficit, although can clearly reduce healthcare costs.

General taxation, we all ready spend well beyond taxes collected? Without fixing the real problem first, being the pharmaceutical, insurance, legal, healthcare supply and provider monopolies which run amuck raping the American public, it's not going to work; being why Medicare just as the first contributors began their careers become eligible for benefits, needs to further cut benefits as they're incapable of being sustained.

I don't contest other nations have their act together to a much greater degree than the US, such as Canada; having a cost per capita of less than 1/3'rd ours; but until we address this fundamental problem, forcing all to pay exorbitant prices to support a fundamentally broken greedy and inefficient system, is a fundamental mistake; and should never have been proposed by our seemingly ignorant and/or corrupt elected representatives; who seem to have more interest in throwing more of other peoples earnings at the problem for the benefit of the strongest lobbies, than requiring the industry to get their act together before having access to one more cent of the citizen's earnings.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swede]

84. Well,here in Canada he'd get immediate treatment.

Total cost to him $0.00. Waiting lists are for elective surgery,not critical life threatening need.

[silverlib]

90. We have no list...and

there are no waiting lists for non-elective surgeries in other nation's national health care - and even if this were true, has it entered you head that America doesn't even have a list?

[Canuckistanian]

103. People don't die on wating lists in other countries

How do I know? I'm Canadian. SEVERAL of my friends and relatives have had cancer and NONE of them were denied immediate care for such a serious illness.

Nice RW talking point there.

[SandWalker1984]

105. Quit drinking the health care Koolaid

I have Canadian friends and they all say that they NEVER have to wait if it it something serious or life threatening, like a heart attack or cancer.

They all think we are incredibly stupid for putting up with corporations running our health care.

While they admit there are occassional waits for some things, all have said they would not trade their system for ours.

I believe them over any corporate supported, propaganda driven ads you may have seen on tv or heard being strewn by the likes of Rush & friends.

[chatnoir]

174. Wrong

Waiting lists?? The only waiting lists in these countries are for elective procedures.

Nice RW talking point you got there.

[Raineyb]

218. Wrong again.

He'd be treated without any concern as to whether or not he could pay. And his bill, if he received one, would be so small that he wouldn't have to worry about bankruptcy. Try traveling somewhere outside of the range of that fat schmuck's voice for a change and you'd see how the rest of the world treats its sick citizens (and visitors).

Although filling out the form for a passport would involve some reading skills which you seem to lack.

[LeftishBrit]

62. Take a long walk on a short pier...

and if you want anyone to rescue you from drowning, pay lots of money for it.

[BlooInBloo]

46. Gotta love the "why don't the poor just buy insurance?" crap in this thread...

:rofl:

[liberalhistorian]

54. As if insurance can be equated to care, as if it's any

guarantee of care. It ISN'T. Health CARE and health INSURANCE are two very different things, not to be confused with each other.

[flamingdem]

56. salient point, he's damned if he had it or did not have it nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

73. glad he's still alive. I was anticipating an unhappy ending. Glad he eventually got health car

[Juche]

74. Go overseas

You can get chemo in Mexico, Thailand or India for a fraction what it costs here. And he could probably get a payment plan for the $30k in medical treatment he would need. $30k is a lot of money, but if it saves your life it isn't. That is about what a nice new car costs.

Its not a long term solution, but until we fix health care that is pretty much the last option for people like this.

[undeterred]

77. Coverage for full time students used to be mandatory.

And it didn't cost much- its a relatively low risk pool of people. I never heard of anyone declining it when I was in school; in fact I have heard of people enrolling in school in order to get coverage.

This law student was probably thinking of his long term indebtedness when he declined the coverage.

[Lucky Luciano]

78. Such a shame. He has a lot of promise. I hope something miraculous occurs. nt

[PJPhreak]

88. I posted this in another thread...

And I will reiterate it once again...

Enough is enough!

For the last few months I have watched these "Teabaggers" out in the streets getting all the airtime from the MSM.

And what have most (But thankfully not all) of us Liberal/Progressives done?

Sat on our asses and bitched!

Well NO MORE!!

GET UP,RISE UP,AND FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! NOW!!

I Didn't walk 258 miles from the DNC to the RNC in 2004 for This Bullshit!

We filled the streets of New York in 2004.WE MADE THE NEWS,NOT THEM!!

Its time to do it again!! For Real!!

Pick up your phones,Fire up those E-Mails,Grab your signs,your banners and yourself,get in your car,on your bike,or walk if you must,but its time!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!

WHAT DO WE WANT? SINGLE PAYER!! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!!


And please lets leave Starbucks Windows alone,They are not running the Insurance Companys....They just sell coffee!

[DutchLiberal]

89. The greatest country on earth...

Unless you are poor and/or get sick.

Get sick and die quickly, indeed.

[Echo In Light]

131. The greatest widely adhered to political mythology on earth

Never underestimate the power of denial

[Taverner]

102. The teabaggers are thinking "He's black - so we shouldn't care"

:grr:

[Uncle Joe]

106. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Amerigo Vespucci.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

108. Pre-existing Condition!

...said condition being he was alive....

[Seldona]

110. I watched my father die in an agony I won't describe.

This was after looting him of his, and my step-mother's, entire nest egg. He was given up to five years, with treatment. He died almost exactly one year later, his savings and retirement having run out.

He went from being treated at Mayo Clinic in Rochester Mn, to our local clinic. He was dead in a week, only being admitted on an emergency basis with the doctors standing around waiting for him to die.

He was a young, vibrant, 60 years old, working 80 hour weeks for the same non-profit he has worked for since the mid 80's. He died without even pain medication. Part of me was left on that table. Frankly, they killed him over money. Worthless paper.

How can anyone ever be the same?

[AzNick]

127. He should have asked his neighbors to operate on him!!!

I mean, that's our problem. We should do it between neighbors. House on fire? Neighbors with buckets. Home invasion? Trigger happy neighbors flooding the neighborhood at night with poor visibility. Oncology care? Your neighbors can take care of it. Surgery? No biggie, sir, the neighbors can do it.

It's the Republican way. Who effing needs a government when you've got your neighbors?

[BlooInBloo]

129. I would make an awful doctor...

I would certainly be canned and sued the first time I snuck someone who didn't have money into the hospital, and made shit up to the staff to get the person treatment.

[shimmergal]

142. Actually, maybe we do need a

secret society of people who'll take jobs with hospitals, insurance cos., etc. and do exactly that.
Some could accomplish the same things by strategic errors on the paperwork and programming that enable sick people to show up as "covered". In the long run everyone would be better off. Just a thought!

[BrklynLiberal]

134. A uniquely American tragedy

[Deep13]

138. We really need to scap the whole patch-work approach. nt

[BlooInBloo]

158. God bless America? No - god DAMN America....

Words of wisdom. :(

[CTyankee]

159. At his young age, about the only thing he could do is the "Eric Cantor cure".

Sell everything he has in his possession over the limit of Medicaid and go on Medicaid.

He is young enough to do this. He probably hasn't accumulated enough stuff to where it will be a big problem to do this. I know I could have at his age.

But of course this is an outrage. We need MORE of these stories to help us in our fight for a strong public option (if we can't get single payer, my choice).

Sad, really, really sad...

[gristy]

197. The University of Alabama law school should have included health insurance as part of tuition

Required of all graduate students. Maybe I'd agree that they can let you opt out if you can show you have other insurance.

Are there any grad/med/law schools that do it this way? It sure makes sense to me.

[midnight]

198. K&R.

[progressivebydesign]

199. This is so sad... and there is a lesson in this, beyond our current situation.

If you do not have insurance, at least try to purchase bare minimum insurance for yourself. A guy his age would pay around 100 bux a month... even if you're in your 20s, spend the 100 a month or less (in most cases) and get insurance if you can. Until this Country gets their head out of their ass and gets insurance for all, then it's worth it to do something. I'm 50, and I pay only 138 a month for bare bones insurance, that even includes some doctors visits, etc.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

216. Thank you for making my point. Maybe someone will understand it from you.

[Toucano]

219. I can't really take these stories anymore.

What is wrong with people?

[mdmc]

225. --