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Louisiana1976 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:59 PM
Original message
Zelaya Calls for "Final Offensive" in Honduras
Tensions rose in Honduras on Sunday in anticipation of fresh unrest after ousted leader Manuel Zelaya urged his supporters to stage a final offensive and coup leaders responded with a harsh warning to Brazil.

Raising the stakes further, meanwhile, five members of the Organization of American States were detained for six hours at the international airport in Honduras Sunday and four were expelled as they were attempting to enter the country, John Biehl, the only OAS official to enter the country, told AFP.

Farm workers from across Honduras were descending on the capital to voice support for Zelaya, religious leader Andres Tamayo told AFP from inside the Brazilian embassy in Tegucigalpa, where the deposed president has been holed up since he made a surprise return almost one week ago.

“A national call has been made for farmers and workers from other sectors to amass in Tegucigalpa, and some have already begun to form these much larger demonstrations,” Tamayo said.

<snip>

more...http://rawstory.com/2009/09/ousted-honduran-leader-calls-for-final-offensive-against-government/
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. if i remember correctly his term is up in november
mayby the best thing he could do is call for the election to be brought forward then the people can elect a new government, to me its starting to look like hes trying to actually have a reverse coup that will keep him in power beyond the nov deadline. both sides should sacrifice for the betterment of the honduran people.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That is my pet rock here as well
New government of his party could vacate the charges and do the reconciliation thing. That is about the best way forward. He would not be President, but would still be in Honduras and able to organize the people.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. An election run by whom? The coupsters, whose military and police forces are killing
leftists, beating people up, tear gassing peaceful protestors, invading peoples' homes and dragging them out, are holding at least a thousand political prisoners for merely peacefully protesting the coup, have blockaded all the roads, have shot out the tires of protest busses, have shut down the opposition media, and have been operating with martial law (suspension of Constitutional rights, frequent curfews) for more than two months?

Who is going to run this election? How are all the unions, human rights groups, community groups and leftist activists and candidates supposed to organize in these circumstances? How can such an election be fair?

You really don't get the point, do you? This is a brutal military coup! The OAS and the US have already said that they will not recognize any election held in these circumstances. And the junta won't let anybody into the country, even to negotiate, let alone to arrange a fair election. They don't want a fair election.

"...to me its starting to look like hes trying to actually have a reverse coup that will keep him in power beyond the nov deadline."

Where do you get your news from?

"both sides should sacrifice for the betterment of the honduran people."

The Honduran people have already had some of their members "sacrificed" --at least a dozen murders so far, several as the result of the military using live ammunition of peaceful protestors. Is that enough "sacrifice" for you? Hundreds of others have been jailed, beaten up, tear gassed, raped, humiliated, bullied, kept in their homes, made to walk home after the tires of their bus were shot out, and otherwise treated like shit. Enough? How about President Zelaya getting his home shot up, and getting dragged from his bed at gunpoint, and flown out of the country, needless to say against his will--while his terrified wife and kids had no idea what they were doing to him--and then got dumped in his pajamas on the tarmac at an airport in Costa Rica--an arrogant and brutal violation of the Honduran Constitution, which forbids the exile of Honduran citizens? How about these extremely poor workers losing wages, and small business people unable to do business, and parents unable to buy food, due to the curfews?

You speak as if there were two sides to a military junta. I guess there are. All the violence and lawlessness are on one side, and all the sacrifice is on the other. Time for this junta to do some sacrificing of their own--sacrificing of their brutal and untoward power over the Honduran people; and sacrificing some of their riches for the sake of the people in one of the poorest countries in the hemisphere, due to their oligarchic rule and their dastardly "free trade for the rich" agreements with the US.

And you need to read up on this situation. Try the Latin American Forum right here at DU. Lots of knowledgeable people posting the facts, the truth and good analysis.
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. lol so what you really are saying is that no matter what zelaya should be president no matter if
his term is up, i am not sure if you want a fair election either unless it guarentees the result that you want.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Zelaya IS the elected President of Honduras!
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 12:05 PM by Peace Patriot
His term ends in January. He is termed out at that time. The proposal that he championed, on behalf of unions and grass roots groups all over the country, was merely for an ADVISORY vote of the people on forming a Constituent Assembly to discuss and rewrite all aspects of the Honduran Constitution. Period. That's all it said. And it would have had no force of law, would have to go the Congress, and would have taken years to be actualized. Zelaya could not benefit from it. The purpose of it was to start a process of reform to give the people of Honduras more say in their own government. (Honduras' Constitution was written by Reagan's henchmen in the 1980s, and favors the rich and the military*).

You need to read NarcoNews--on the ground report from Honduras of union and grass roots meetings around the country. The Constituent Assembly vote was their idea. Zelaya was responding to the voices of the people, as a good president should.

And you need to read the Lawyers' Guild report on Zelaya's ouster.

"...a preliminary report by an international delegation of lawyers that visited Honduras in late August affirms that a military coup is what took place. The report considers the lack of an independent judiciary in Honduras as part of the context in which this (the coup) occurred and points to powerful economic and political groups opposed to social advances promoted by President Zelaya as the driving force behind the coup.

"The report, drafted by members of the American Association of Jurists, the National Lawyers Guild, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers and the International Association Against Torture, further states that the military overthrow was a clear violation of Honduras' 1982 Political Constitution. Among various constitutional articles that the report claims were violated includes Article 102, which states: "No Honduran may be expatriated nor delivered by the authorities to a foreign state"
.

(MORE)

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/2132/1/


-----------------------

*(One of the ways it favors the rich and the military is by confining the president to ONE term, so that no political figure who is responding to the will of the people has sufficient time, or can gain sufficient power, to oppose the entrenched interests of the "ten families" and the "School of the Americas"-trained military who rule over Honduras. So I would personally favor adding at least a second term for the president. Our own FDR ran for and won FOUR terms in office, and needed that much time to solidify the "New Deal" as well as to win WW II. Should the American people have been denied his leadership by an arbitrary term limit rule? The Pukes thought so. In the 1950s, they rammed through the two-term limit on the president in order to prevent any "New Deal" from ever happening here again, and to begin to undo the one we had (which they have very nearly accomplished). Our own Founders opposed term limits as undemocratic (the People should be able to elect whomever they want), and did not include them in the US Constitution because of this. The people of Honduras have a right to reconsider this provision of their Reagan-written Constitution--and change it, after hashing out of the issues by a Constituent Assembly. That's democracy! But that is only one of numerous issues that a Constituent Assembly would discuss, and ultimately put to a vote of the people. This process takes years. Zelaya could not have benefited from it, at least in immediate future. The vote was only to be ADVISORY--which would likely mean 5 to 10 years before anything could be put to an actual vote and be implemented--with of course the "ten families" and the global corporate predators in Honduras, and the corpo/fascist media in Honduras, fighting it all the way. It is a lie and slander against Zelaya that he was trying to get around the one-term limit. He was not.)
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Micheletti should be fucking waterboarded...
What a worthless goddamn excuse for a "human".
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have a hunch the Honduran dictatorship is going to storm the Brazilian embassy to get Zelaya.
Technically speaking, sending troops onto embassy ground would be seen the same as sending troops onto Brazilian soil itself. It would be an act of war.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I read some speculation elsewhere that if Brazil does not turn him over or remove him, Honduras
would decertify the embassy and force the removal of everyone there. I am not sure if that is the right name for the process, but there is a procedure to do it under international law. Very provocative step if they go that way.
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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. easier to ... turn off the electricity and water .nt
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. My guess is they won't. They'll just eat up the time of his term until their rigged election,
with threats and bluster, then, a few weeks before the election, they will suddenly acquiesce to the Arias Accord, and muddy up the issue of how the election was run, then present a "new face" of the backgrounded junta to the world, and try to get it accepted. This is what they'll do if they're smart, and have sufficient confidence in the rightwing forces here to back them up and make life difficult for Obama and Clinton.

Are they that smart? They don't seem very smart (they've ignited a leftist peoples' revolution in Honduras that isn't going to go away), but they may have smart advisors who can rein in their murderous tendencies and their stupidity. If they do storm the embassy, it's all over for them. That will bring UN peacekeepers--including Brazilian soldiers--into Honduras. The US will have a hard time stopping that at the UN (if they're of a mind to) without major embarrassment and great harm to Obama/Clinton policies and plans in Latin America. The Security Council yesterday passed a resolution telling the Junta "hands off the Brazilian embassy." And Brazil could possibly act on its own. They have the forces and they are very mad already. President Lula da Silva is giving the Junta no quarter whatever. He said today they should leave the presidential palace immediately. He refuses to negotiate with them because they are not the legitimate government. He won't even respond to their threats (their "10 day deadline," etc.) So he seems quite confident either that they wouldn't dare storm the embassy, or that he would big backing if they do.

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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe he'll call for "The Final Countdown"

Just before, with air guitar. :)
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is he popular enough to pull this off?
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 09:58 PM by rucky
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Not really. Before his ouster he had polling numbers close to Bush..
His pop boost is due to a reaction against the Honduran military not because he suddenly became more likable.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I suppose making up shit is the best way to defend your support for the coup,
but, even so, it is rather lame and ineffective among those who can read and prefer democracy over military dictatorships

From http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1153618.html :

• Zelaya has enjoyed high levels of support throughout his tenure. In 2006, his approval rating was 50 percent; in 2007, it was 61 percent; in 2008 it fell to 52 percent; in April 2009 his rating climbed to 62 percent.

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