A Generation Who Doesn't Know HOW to Think

[tekisui]

Get ready, we are seeing it. A generation of people graduating high school(and some colleges) without being taught HOW to think. Students are taught to pass a standardized test. They are taught to memorize and regurgitate. Make no mistake, this is by design.

No longer is critical thought valued. No longer are students taught how to look at an issue, investigate with curious skepticism and reach a unique conclusion. They are taught how to fill in one of four bubbles that represent the term they memorized long enough to earn their grade(if they are good students).

What it is producing is robot-thinkers. They hear the bullshit from the bullshit spewers and don't question it. The M$M feeds them the information after they are done with school, and they regurgitate it in the same fashion. Without question and without independent thought.

A well educated populace has always been a fear of the ruling elite, now they have found a way to provide that 'education' without the risk of a bunch of dangerous critical thinkers. No Child Left Behind? Leave All Though Behind.

[gristy]

1. I don't know if it is by design, but certainly the result is there.

But it's also true that many folks will develop their critical thinking skills on the job, on line, and simply by living life.

[timeforpeace]

67. At least they know how to post on internet forums.

[Avalux]

2. I agree with you; it's up to parents to teach our children how to think.

I can't easily change that I live in Texas and the public schools here are crippled by TAKS. What I can do is challenge my kids; encourage them to ask "why" and "how" and "what for". That's what my Dad did for me and I thank him for it every day.

[KittyWampus]

75. It always has been and will be the parents' job to teach our kids how to think

[seabeyond]

115. i agree. nt

[Bandit]

134. BS...It takes a village.

Parents can not do it alone, nor can teachers. It is up to us all to see that our children "is" learning.......The schools need to get back to problem solving and the parents need to make sure their kids are doing their homework and understand what they are being taught..

[Lagomorph]

198. After school, life takes over...

but in real life, the test comes first, then the lesson.

[Newsjock]

3. But what can we do about it?

We can't assume that parents will fix it -- many of them aren't such great critical thinkers themselves. But try to get government involved, and everyone's panties will get in a wad.

I'd like to see some honest, practical solutions to America's growing illiteracy.

[orpupilofnature57]

7. Turn them on to Carl Sagan and his Baloney test kit that and a little

Voltaire and they'll be good to go.

[tekisui]

8. IMO, it is up to the government to fix it.

No other institution or organization has the ability to.

[watrwefitinfor]

130. Run for a position on your local school board!

Begin now to pack the school boards with people who think like you!

I remember back in the late '60s early '70s the word went out to the fundie/fascists to do just that, and they did. And went on from there to run for local office, then national. That's why there are so many fundie idiots so strongly entrenched at every level. It was a brilliant move - Bush may be gone, but the fundie school boards are still there.

Run run run! Change things at the grass roots level.

Wat

[orpupilofnature57]

4. Apt Androids, serving the 12%. Free thinking is a form of Terrorism and

it hurts.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Exactly right...

I remember my dad telling me that the purpose of education was to teach me how to think. NOT what to think. I was amazed!

But that's no longer the case, and I'm afraid it hasn't been true for some time...

Republican school boards, folks...

That's where it starts.

Get them young...


K&R

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Half of them want the 1950's the others want antebellum.

[XemaSab]

73. Many school boards in California are not republican

but in many schools, the focus is on basic reading skills and not higher thought.

One of the few phrases W spat out that I think was meaningful is the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

There's a lot of that soft bigotry happening in cities in California, and it's being pushed by well-meaning democrats.

[Xipe Totec]

6. Thank the Republicans for this

Their objective over the last several decades has been to dismantle the public education system.

And their efforts are bearing fruit.

They want private education for the privileged.

Public education for the masses.

And the less spent for the masses, the better it is for them.

[Adam R]

10. "Growing up, it all seems so one-sided.....

...opinions all provided, the future pre-decided."

[tekisui]

11. Indeed. Welcome to DU.

[Telly Savalas]

124. Indeed? That song was written in 1982 - not this generation.

[tekisui]

157. It is a steady digression.

It didn't start in the past few years, but has gotten worse.

[jotsy]

37. And a public divided leaves the corporatocracy delighted.

Welcome to DU.

Response to original post:
Education is not exclusive to academic turf, which is a good thing because its quality is severely lacking. As a parent, I tell other parents we have to be prepared to take a really active role in what our kids learn. I'm also not afraid to tell my district who my children are is more important to me than what they know. I do believe public education is intentionally delivered in substandard fashion, in order to create a need for private schools. Like everything else, free market principles can be made to apply and profits are always the primary objective.

[Bill McBlueState]

12. When was critical thought valued?

I can't remember a time like that.

[tekisui]

13. Maybe never.

I can see that it is valued less, since I was in school, anyway.

[Peggesis1]

92. critical thinking in corporate-dominated US

I remember being expected to think critically as a student. In my school experience, it was something the high school English teacher required.

There is something that has struck me since returning to work a year after an injury. I've noticed much more superstitious un-critical thinking among professional people. Specifically, professional nurses, whom I would expect to know better, are talking about how their patients recommend health store teas and magnetic bracelets, and nurses are unable to evaluate these things. This is in an agency that is more and more under the thumb of the large corporation which bought it out. I wonder if there's a connection.

[omega minimo]

214. If you don't want their suggestions that might help you heal

just tell them you're going to turn them into the Thought Police. They'll stop.


:evilfrown:

[Telly Savalas]

125. Based on what?

My kid's curriculum seems to be more focused on critical thinking skills than mine was when I was her age.

I realize an anecdote doesn't form a credible data set, but I don't see anything supporting your argument other than conjecture.

[tekisui]

164. I have nothing other than what I have seen.

I have spent time around recent high school graduates, and have made this observation. I have no data, just a theory. That is why I tossed it out there. I think the idea is valid enough to warrant discussion. Lots of others, from all sides, seem to agree.

[orpupilofnature57]

Since ancient time ,then there was the Civil war ,FDR really good at it..

What do you mean?

[glitch]

70. I do remember, but it wasn't particularly common.

Exceptional teachers and school admins make a lot of difference.

[bvar22]

172. 50s and 60s....

Jesuit education.
Extra points for critical thinking and questioning the official paradigm (even the Catholic Church) as long as you were able to support your position.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Are you saying that the program could just as well been named

No child left with a mind??? Curious.

[tekisui]

15. Oh, I like that better.

No Child Left A Mind.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. I see a bumper sticker in there somewhere..... n't

[Occulus]

206. Brilliant!

I want that bumper sticker. Fire off an email to whoever does the DU store and beg it of them. I'll buy one.

[Patchuli]

17. If the gov't would quit focusing on tests

and let teachers TEACH, kids would LEARN. The Ed Dept. is like the very definition of insanity.

[tekisui]

18. I know a lot of good teachers who are getting fed up

or have left already. They are forcing our true teachers out.

[Patchuli]

102. And they are wasting students' time!!

Time that cannot be replaced! Out with the Bush idiocies!

[orpupilofnature57]

20. Pigeon holing is easier than discerning.

[Patchuli]

101. I just know what students tell me

in my day to day work life: When are they going to stop testing me and let my teachers teach me?

[Odin2005]

19. Yawn, another BS slam on us Millennials.

:eyes: Were are the ones that put Obama in the white house, people under 30 are the most Democratic-leaning generation since the WW2 Generation. Are you calling that stupid?

[orpupilofnature57]

22. Nope ,I was born in 1957 and I get all kinds of things from people under 30

Critical thinking isn't one of them.

[Mixopterus]

25. Heh

Perhaps, but not everyone is like that.

Welcome to the horrors of a utilitarian-consumerist attitude towards education, people learning to start earning, not for the joy of knowledge....

Provided for by your generation. Thanks.

[orpupilofnature57]

28. Utilizing is all they want ,Knowledge for it's own sake your right ,Metaphysics!

[Posteritatis]

87. You might wanna keep an eye on some of your peers' critical thought around here

Beam, eye, etc.

[orpupilofnature57]

109. A constant hashing out ,thats why I'm here ,Everything is debated

Hence the is no Predominate school of thought.

[Mixopterus]

23. Indeed

[tekisui]

30. I am 29!

:rofl:

I call it as I see it.

[Odin2005]

42. If you think older generations were more critical than we are you are deluding yourself.

Or romanticizing the hagiographic accounts of the 1960s.

[tekisui]

52. I know little about the 60s. But, I have seen a change in my lifetime.

I have talked to teachers and professors who tell me the same empirically. It goes without saying(or should have) that this is a generalization and individuals' experience may vary. But, maybe that aspect of critical analysis slipped past you?

[orpupilofnature57]

111. Ronnie Ray-guns tried to make thinking unfashionable in the 80's

[Telly Savalas]

126. So you're basing this conclusion upon the word of a few people

who make the same unsubstantiated claim about the younger generation that's been made every generation for centuries? Do you have any actual facts to support your case? Are there specific differences in the curriculum? Have you thought critically about this?

[timtom]

120. Thank you!

It has always been thus. Except for ancient Greece during...oh, wait! They executed Socrates for...TEACHING THE ATHENIAN YOUTH HOW TO THINK!!

Yup. This dichotomy has always been with humankind.

[omega minimo]

200. You understand the difference between "critical thinking" and "more critical," right?

:hi:


The OP's talking about trends in education, we've already seen the results, and the the Teach To The Test "method" and attitudes are only becoming MORE entrenched.

Did you read my post about reading?

[truedelphi]

45. The Democrat that we have in the WH

Is part of a DLC movement that has shoved the dialogue so far to the right that Robert Kennedy would not even recognize this party.

In fact, the actions of Geithner and Bernanke in only bailing out Wall Street would have mystified even Richard Nixon.

So if that is your claim to fame for your generation, I think you are proving the point!

[Odin2005]

57. YAWN!

:eyes:

[bvar22]

173. Now there is some critical thinking !

What was your point again?

[Odin2005]

188. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are "DLC corporate whores"

Some people have the critical thinking ability to see beyond simplistic left-right dichotomies and black-and-white thinking. :hi:

[bvar22]

202. The New Team:

[Juche]

80. Obama rejected the DLC

Several years ago they listed him as a 'future DLC politician to watch'. He asked the DLC to not use his name.

He is a wimpy, apologetic centrist, but he rejected the DLC.

[truedelphi]

103. So who is his Secretary of State then?

I'd heard it was Hillary Clinton, who has been DLC for ever so long.

And where did his appointment of Richard Holbrook come from?

And how do you explain Rahm Emmanuel?

Way back a while ago, he even endorsed SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, and said it would only take getting the majority of both houses, and a Dem in the WH.

But that was when he first ran for the Senate in Illinois, and stillneeded the lowly voters. And before he needed the Corporations to help him have the monies to fund his run for the WH.

[Juche]

78. You're a millennial?

I thought you were 50, probably because another guy I know whose handle is wodin is about 50.

Either way, you are right. We millenials put Obama in the white house and are very progressive.


There is a problem though with the age of information. I am trying to find the article and can't seem to find it, but in it the author claims that all of our electronic gadgets are speeding up activity in some parts of the brain, which is bypassing other more ethical parts. As a result he says we are smarter, but we have fewer gut level negative reactions to injustice. If I can find it I'll post it.

To the OP: What should schools teach in an ideal society? Philosophy, evolutionary psychology, rhetoric, logic, critical thinking, introspection, ethics, multiculturalism? What do you feel we should be teaching that we are not, and do you think it would actually sink in when given to a bunch of 11 year olds who are learning it involuntarily in a school environment?

What about the people who honestly have no interest in those things? If a person wants to know those things, they can find them. Libraries and the internet have tons of places to learn about these issues. Anyone who wants to know them can find them.

[Odin2005]

189. The brain thing sounds like pseudoscience to me.

a "technology is corrupting the youth" prejudice looking for a justification.

As for schools, I agree with you, you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink. For most people things that are not interesting or useful tend to be forgotten of dimly remembered. you can force the Liberal Arts on people are much as you want, that doesn't mean they won't just remember it long enough to pass the test if it doesn't interest them.

[earth mom]

21. And to think many of us waited years for * to leave office so that NCLB would be kicked to the curb.

But it's still in place isn't it?

Hope & Change was nothing but b.s. on a silver platter. :grr:

[orpupilofnature57]

26. It will be easier now ,but the 12% need sheep not Emanuel Kant

[ShortnFiery]

24. With regard to shaping "public opinion" and "manufacturing consent" ....

THE IDIOTS HAVE TAKEN OVER!

it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?

Mensa membership conceding
tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
the industrial revolution
has flipped the bitch on evolution
the benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer
the world keeps getting dumber
insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason

darwin's rollin over in his coffin
the fittest are surviving much less often
now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston
stranded on a primate planet
apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
with generals and the armies that obeyed them
followers following fables
philosophies that enable them to rule without regard

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

what are we left with?
a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
pass on traditions
how to get ahead religions
And prosperity via simpleton culture

the idiots are takin over

[thelordofhell]

76. You have to take a test to be in Mensa

[krabigirl]

27. It sucks, but several other countries also mainly rely on testing, testing, testing.

[Beer on a stick]

29. There was no Golden Age when critical thinking was valued.

[orpupilofnature57]

32. Yes there was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire

[Beer on a stick]

33. Not in our country, or it's educational system.

[orpupilofnature57]

35. Can't argue with that.

[Posteritatis]

88. Ah, yes, pre-Revolutionary France, that bastion of universal literacy and education.. (nt)

[Telly Savalas]

127. Perhaps we should model our education system after that of 18th century France.

[Posteritatis]

171. Heaven knows the literacy rates are heading that way... (nt)

[omega minimo]

79. Bullshit

[Beer on a stick]

94. Bullshit? Fine, when was this Golden Age, Professor?

[omega minimo]

96. Ginger or MaryAnne?

For ONE there was a "golden age" of public education, where kids were taught the concepts that are the foundation of critical thinking, Skipper.

[Telly Savalas]

128. When?

[Beer on a stick]

147. Don't expect an intelligent, cogent answer.

[omega minimo]

199. You fool no one, Anchovies on a stick

[BOG PERSON]

31. I've met plenty of Boomers and Gen-Xers

who can only think but do nothing else.

[orpupilofnature57]

34. Look at what thought did to the thinker.

[BOG PERSON]

36. I might add these thoughts are usually

not especially insightful or clever anyway.

[orpupilofnature57]

38. Now thats Critique thinking,, not Critical thinking ,mater of opinion as

opposed to your opinion of matter.

[BOG PERSON]

66. That's true

I guess research-oriented science jobs don't bring home enough bacon for most Americans anymore and knowledge of science isn't really required for Americans to be considered productive members of society.

This probably isn't a "generational" thing, though, just the latest point in a long term trend.

[imdjh]

179. astute

[femrap]

39. I agree!!!!

No critical thinking skills whatsoever. Just little workers who will gladly take orders from their Corporate bosses.

Of course, this means we fall behind other countries in education, creativity, inventions, etc.

The kids graduating from high school have few choices: join the military (for boys and girls...girls facing big risk of rape), deal drugs (boys for the most part), flip burgers and live at home, be a stripper (girls only, I guess), go to college and go into big debt so will be treated like shit at some corporation and have to take it due to debt/slavery.

Our country is fucked. The only way to win is to be born into wealth.

I want to live in France. Americans who don't think are really getting on my nerves.

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Taker ease ,things change.

[femrap]

167. seems the only

change I see is for the worse. The word 'change' now leaves me with a sarcastic feeling. But, yes, I know change is the only constant.

[orpupilofnature57]

208. And it's ambiguous ,I know what you mean as far it being a negative thing

lately ,hopefully we'll get the change most of us want.

[Tashca]

41. Brave New World

I just finished the book by Aldous Huxley.....quite unsettling.

I think Mr. Huxley would be quite impressed by the method now in use. You make a very good point.

[Kievan Rus]

43. Too many minds brainwashed by the hypercapitalist agenda

[BillDU]

44. I taught myself how to think

Nothing new here.
We were taught one plus one equals two.
Oh God! Isn't that horrible! (sarcasm).
Has that changed?
Some things are standard.
On the other hand
Yes some things change.

God grant me the intelligence to know the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Those things (fill in the bubbles) were there 30 years ago and they did not stop me from having my own mind.

How long are people going to stay focused on a program questioning whether one plus one equal two?

[Harry Monroe]

46. "Leave all thought behind, ye who enter here"

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- just
to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more
than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true.
Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the
time.

That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I turned off the TV and
asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's. I
began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I
couldn't help myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau, Muir, Confucius and
Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it
exactly we are doing here?"

One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say
this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the
job, you'll have to find another job."

This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the
boss. "Honey," I confess, "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as college
professors and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking,
we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.

She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the
emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking
lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors. They didn't open. The
library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night.
Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye,
"Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked.

You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster.

This is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting.
At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then
we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed...easier,
somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly
complete for me.

Today I took the final step............ I joined the Republican Party

[armyowalgreens]

47. I personally think your OP is bullshit. But what do I know? I'm just a robot.

[tekisui]

50. Still taking yourself O So Seriously, I see.

:rofl:

[armyowalgreens]

53. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Odin2005]

56. Don't worry, I acted the same way in my first year of college, too!

It's a phase. :)

[armyowalgreens]

58. Unfortunately, this is my second year. It must be permanent.

:evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

61. Ruh-roh...

:scared:

[Odin2005]

54. LOL!, +1

[seabeyond]

119. i hear these complaints so often. i look at my boys, not even close. then i think

bah hahah, maybe i need to look beyond and not at my boys. but yep, sure enough, i have had many "thinking" conversation with sons friends. during election his friends would come over and sit at dining room table to talk to me about politics and our world, following me around house and wouldnt leave me alone. so they thing

and look at the youth on this board. yawl think.

i dont think i will buy it either.

now are many being conditioned by belief and tv and society as a whole. ya. but it is still critical thinking. just not the correct critical thinking. lol

[orpupilofnature57]

144. The Zeitgeist

[TxRider]

48. I don't know

I had 8 nieces and nephews etc. graduate this year, they all seem to be pretty good thinkers.

Parents get a shot at teaching their kids too you know. Many parents teach them to think quite well.

[tekisui]

51. Oh absolutely.

I applaud any parent who is able to guide their kids through what is today's culture. And, I am certain that many try very hard to instill the value of critical thought in their kids. It is just more of an uphill battle.

[bobbolink]

49. On the other hand, Jon Stewart and Colbert are doing a fantastic job!

And that is really what they are teaching, underneath the absurdity... critical thinking!

Hurrah for both of them!

[tekisui]

55. How right you are.

That is why they are SO valuable. And, why so many turn to them.

[bobbolink]

59. It doesn't excuse the mess in the schools, but at least they are a shining light in that morass....

[obliviously]

60. I wasn't aware there was that big of a problem but

if there is wouldn't those who teach them be responsible?

[tekisui]

82. They are required to teach to the test to get the scores to get the

funding....

[Starbucks Anarchist]

62. I disagree.

Critical thinkers appear in every generation. So do mindless robots.

When I see these mindless tea-party rallies, the people involved are certainly not of the Millenial generation. Yes, there are Millenials who regurgitate everything they hear, but you could make the same case with any generation. This young generation that grew up in a diverse environment aren't likely, as a whole, to partake of talk radio's race-baiting or misogyny. And being so tech-savvy, they aren't beholden to MSM-derived news stories.

It's not like critical thought died in the arms of the Boomers or even Generation X. That kind of narcissistic thinking would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

And considering the Millenials' heavily liberal bent, I'd say they're politically engaged in a positive way. It's ironic to say that they can't think for themselves when they turned out in such large numbers for Obama and the Democrats.

[EFerrari]

63. It's not really narcissism to point out that our schools no longer teach

reasoning as much as they drill, though. That part is a valid observation.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. It is, but I was focusing on the OP's third paragraph.

The one that tied new teaching methods with producing uncritical thinkers, as if they suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

[Telly Savalas]

131. When I was in elementary school my math curriculum was based on rote drilling

my daughter's in contrast has her looking at numbers from many perspectives and includes things like estimation which are meant to cultivate a sense of numeracy. Her social studies work has readings followed by questions asking her to relate the concepts to her own life. Similarly, her English class has her looking at language and literature from a variety of perspectives.

Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy, but it appears to me that advances have been made to teaching materials and pedagogical techniques over the last few decades -- advances that promote greater critical thinking in our kids today.

[EFerrari]

159. Drilling is an excellent way to commit stuff to memory. The Chinese

use it extensively for that with very good success.

[tekisui]

83. I will be honest with you.

They turned out in big numbers, but if you ask them today what issues are most pressing, most haven't a clue. Seriously. They followed the liberal activists to Obama, and liked his message. Just like regurgitation, they were told who to vote for and did. But, they have largely already abandoned their role in politics. Until they are told what to do again.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

90. But what do you base this on?

I doubt you encountered a statistically significant sample.

[NuttyFluffers]

64. the kids are all right. they just got lots of energy to release, like there's no tomorrow.

deep thoughts will come, once the energy is spent and they can relax.

[orpupilofnature57]

107. YA,exactly it's like nitro in a Volkswagen.

[BOG PERSON]

68. Kids these days have perfectly fine critical thinking skills.

Probably better than every previous generation.

Unfortunately at the same time they're not very well rounded. They are lacking in "general knowledge"

[tekisui]

84. I agree with not being well rounded.

[seabeyond]

116. what do you mean well rounded? with internet and info at finger tip

i am seeing the amount of info on all kinds of interests immediately satisfied for the kid. what are they lacking in the round?

[tekisui]

118. The potential to access is there, but I don't see a great motivation

to access the information. The well-roundness that I think is lacking is the ability to participate in a wide range of conversations, understand the basic history of this country, have an interest in the arts and have the willingness to work.

[seabeyond]

123. well, now. if we are talking willingness to work, ability to work.... that is a whole different

story. i dont think it has anything to do with cirtical thinking but pure laziness. i do see a difference in worker to day from yesterday, lol lol.

the critical thinking, i am not gonna buy. i have too many kids exploring the world in thought with me. i was always a kid into discussion. these kids are par or beyond me.

but i gotta remember too son hangs around with like people.

so my view is a bit skewed.

i have a couple nephews and nieces with no interested in a world of thought, or thinking things thru

[BOG PERSON]

150. Well there's just such a glut of information

and they can't properly digest it. That's not really their fault.

[seabeyond]

163. hence, the parent doing their job. all it takes is some time. and listening. nt

[TCJ70]

69. This is certainly not true...

...I went to public school. I did what I had to to get out of there, standardized tests and all, got into a good school, and THEN started learning about politics. I educated myself. I wasn't interested in the news, especially CNN/MSNBC/FOX in high school (neither were the vast majority of people, by the way). The people of my generation are different, yes, but certainly not robots. Perhaps we just think differently.

[Jennicut]

71. I am 33 and have 4 and 5 year old daughters. They are ahead of where I was at that age.

I don't want them pushed too much but they do learn their name and letters at 4 and words and some reading at 5. I was not learning letters until kindergarten. I was also bad at math and had some dyslexia issues so I am a bit nervous about how they will do when they get older. I am going back to school to be a preschool teacher myself. So far, they are able to do basic counting and addition fairly well.

As far as kids today go, my next door neighbor's 14 year old is intelligent and on the ball. I think we sometimes don't realize that kids have the ability to survive a lot of things thrown at them. And as a Gen Xer, we were the first kids who had all the major technology and home computers. The video games started with us. And we survived. Maybe with a shorter attention span...but I think we are doing okay.

[orpupilofnature57]

210. And as far a their attention span ,it's taxed more than any other Generation

in the history of Civilization.

[HappyCynic]

72. No child left behind

No child is left behind if none of them go anywhere...

[seabeyond]

74. three decades ago parents had the same complaint. i taught kids critical thinking before the got

into school and have encourage it every day since being in school. there are some things still left to the parent. but the kids had way more discussion time, and less lecture time than our day in school

i am not worried about kids education. my youngest in 6th grade doing freshman algebra, ... how the fuck do they do that. oldest son 7th grade... with pre AP course.

they are so above us in education than our days

parents better get on the ball and do their job, ... but then they would have to be able to critical think, and that leaves out almost half the population

the tests... the test are manufactured by all the people blaming teachers, adm, and public schools for not teaching their children. not that the parent would actually take the onus. the test are from the publics yelling

[rationalcalgarian]

77. Think back to the Reagan era

That was the plan...rape and savage the education of America's youth. Because in 20 years, they would need an Army of Stupid.

And they got it.

[omega minimo]

81. The real demarcation is Are You A Reader Or Not?

(This generalization with apologies to geniusi and homespun folk with mad brilliant common sense and all others who don't need reading for knowing what they know).



Critical thought, related to reading.
Context, related to reading.
Comprehending different points of view, related to reading.
Knowledge of history, language, culture, art, ideas, idioms, relatied to reading.
Imagination, humor, patience, tolerance, creative/poetice license, related to reading.
Ability to carry on converation, related to reading.
Ability to listen, NO, really listen, related to reading.

Inability to read without getting pissed off at what you don't immediately understand or already think, related to not reading.


"A well educated populace has always been a fear of the ruling elite, now they have found a way to provide that 'education' without the risk of a bunch of dangerous critical thinkers. No Child Left Behind? Leave All Though Behind."

[tekisui]

85. Great point. It is literacy and use of it.

[omega minimo]

86. Reading helps us think and listen and consider and imagine and reflect and understand and converse

and grasp CONTEXT!!!!

[bluestateguy]

89. That won't fly in college

The ones who can't think on their own will flunk out. College professors don't give a shit about NCLB mandates. They expect originality and creative thinking, especially in the upper level classes.

[anonymous171]

91. If people weren't critical, they wouldn't need to pump out all that propaganda that they do.

Honestly, I think that the only thing that they want us ignorant of is Civics. They do not want us to know about our own government, for fear that we may decide to become involved in it.

[Alcibiades]

93. Funny, I had thought you meant the me generation

Or generation teabagger, just from the title. The under 30 crowd went 66% for Obama, the largest margin of support by young voters for a Democratic candidate in my lifetime.

And, when you compare their support for our issues to that of the over 65 crowd, you'll see plenty of evidence of critical thought.



I don't blame educators for not teaching students critical thought, because I think there's good evidence that they are. But when you look at all the gray heads at teabagging events,it does make you blame Fox "News" for what they have done to the minds of the older set.

[Prism]

95. Well, this certainly misses the forest for the trees

Millenials are different, but the true reasons for the change in thinking and disposition in this generation has far more to do with technology, economics, and social adjustments than pure education.

Millenials certainly think differently. Neurological process are being altered by increasing technology. Memory is being offloaded onto computers and portable devices. (I seriously don't know my boyfriend's phone number, and we've been together for nine months). Millenials are able to multi-task to an absurd degree and process vast amounts of information. The downside to this is that retention of information is worsening, and attention spans are fraying. So they're simultaneously getting much smarter and more sophisticated in certain ways, but that is coming at a cost.

The social changes of the past few decades are by far leaving the biggest impression on Millenials. This is one of the most infantilized generations we've ever seen - and it's not their fault. Society now treats people well into their 20s as if they're still children. They have been protected and coddled from just about everything their Boomer parents could imagine, and they have not been entrusted with the kinds of responsibilities or expectations at early ages that the preceding generations struggled with. Look at the average age of marriage. Look at how long and how late so many Millenials are living with their parents . . .

. . . which brings us to the economics. Flatly put, the opportunities simply aren't what they were. More and more Millenials are living at home to advanced ages - some all the way into their 30s. It is becoming less and less common to see people leaving school, many with advanced degrees, and able to support themselves as an independent unit. Not only are we seeing Millenials staying home, we're seeing with increasing commonness the spread of mini-collectives and communities where there are three to six people sharing a home and responsibilities.

What you end up with is a generation of people who think unlike any generation before them, who have been taught to be as self-focused and responsibility free to a degree unknown before, tossed into a crappy economic situation.

Millenials will learn how to think just fine. They'll have to. The way our debt and government are going, it will soon become a simple matter of survival. And no matter how dumb we may perceive people, they're not so dumb that they're not going to realize the source of their pain or the reason why they're possibily living at a lower standard of living than their parents.

People catch on like that.

[midnight]

97. A movement begun in 2002 with the No Child Left behind.

The January 2008 headline was ominous: “New York Measuring Teachers
by Student Progress on Tests.” And the story that followed was even more
threatening to teachers’ status, autonomy and eventual job security.
The proposal, described as an “experiment,” was to evaluate 2,500 New
York City public school teachers on how much their students improve on
annual standardized tests, providing data which would “eventually be used
to help make decisions on teacher tenure or as a significant element in
performance evaluations and bonuses.” Ratings for individual teachers could
even be made public. 60
Thus comes full circle a movement begun in 2002 with the No Child Left
Behind Act to assign responsibility to particular schools for students’ failure
to improve as measured by their performance on standardized tests of math
and reading. According to NCLB rules, school districts are obliged to close
entire schools that “fail” their students six years running. And, at least for
a certain set of teachers in New York City and most likely Washington, D.C.,
it’s now not just the schools, but also the teachers who are going to have to pay
for students’ poor test results, in lost earnings, status and career prospects.http://www.rescorp.org/gdresources/downloads/Science_Teaching_as_a_Profession2.pdf

[babydollhead]

217. My kids teachers told them this...literally

"If you don't score well on the PSSA test, I will lose my job" The principle was fired for fudging the results so her school wouldn't be shut down. No Art, No Music, No Science. just math and reading (because that's what bush had trouble with in school.

[conflictgirl]

98. I am raising children to be the exceptions to this

My 11-year-old tonight told my sister (who's 32 and the parent of an infant) that his social studies teacher is a right-winger and she was just shocked that he even knew that phrase "right wing" and knew that surely we had taught it to him. She asked if he understood what it meant and if he was just using it as an insult. Of course he knows what it means! Even my 3rd grader has a better grasp on world issues than many adults out there. And I am not just raising them to parrot my views, as fun as that might be - I am teaching them about all sides of the issues and letting them come to their own conclusions. It just so happens that, because they have a strong moral compass, they usually do come to the same conclusions that I have. And when they don't, they are already capable of articulating why they believe what they do.

It's not just their generation isn't being taught how to think - most of their parents cannot either. We have been a TV-led populace that thinks in headlines and sound bites for a couple of generations now and those who can think for themselves are sadly becoming the minority.

[BOG PERSON]

99. I wonder which generation most of the 9/11 "truthers" belong to...

:hide:

[DainBramaged]

100. You make a purchase at the local Quicky Mart

The total is $11.62, give the gnome at the register a twenty dollar bill, a one, and 62 cents and watch their head explode. Or any combination designed to offset getting 3 pennies back.


Kids were taught NOT to think starting in the 80's when Raygun was President. Te Conservative movement tried to make our kids dumb way back then.

And people are just realizing this now?

[Dulcinea]

110. I asked a clerk about that.

He told me that the executives don't want the clerks to count change ("Out of twenty, one, two...is your change") because that takes too much time, and they want to get as many customers in & out of the convenience store as quickly as possible! Time is money! And, no, I'm not making that up! :wtf:

[Codeine]

204. Two points;

One, you show the typical DU contempt for the working class ("gnome at the register"), and two, all the cashiers who work for me can handle whatever combination of change you hand them.

Honestly. :eyes:

[DainBramaged]

212. I AM the working class.....

:mad:

And PS, if you can't make change in your head, you are a gnome.

:mad:

[question everything]

104. A few years ago "60 Minutes" had a story about Gen X (I think)

and while they are more tolerant and accepting and just want to hang together, they are not ambitious enough to be leaders. To stand up and take the responsibility.

[HamdenRice]

105. DU's Trotskyite mob is a perfect example

They have zero capacity for analysis or critical thinking. They just parrot what they read on certain cult web sites, but have no ability to compare their insane ravings with "facts."

[orpupilofnature57]

106. Perspicacity

Look it up ,antagonistic is easy.

[natrat]

108. those people are either paid dlc cyber whores, or, yes, just lack independent thought

[orpupilofnature57]

112. I agree ,the DLC are republican-lite ,nothing to do with Liberal thought.

[Odin2005]

187. Oh, SNAP!!!

You Win!!! :rofl:

[Deja Q]

113. Disagreed! Thanks to empirical experience.

More than one instructor at my college openly states they want original, critical thought.

Another states "Always push yourself; it's never overextending and there's always room for improvement. Especially in these introduction courses."

SOME schools shove kids along. My school district did that and I really have grounds to sue the fsckers. Far more than many who do sue and win, have NO doubts as I really don't want to dredge up my past; I'm working on moving forward. Not backward.

And those that do encourage critical thought may still grade high even if they disagree with a student's critical thinking.

They can also see through sloppy work too.

The truth is in the middle; but you're blaming everything on just one facet. I cannot agree to that, for there are plenty who don't want to be bothered TO learn, because getting the new song through vcast is much more worthwhile.

[orpupilofnature57]

114. Your talking about the difference between Aristotle and Dale Carnegie

Love for knowledge and the tools of induction ,as opposed to Production and the aires of introduction.

[seabeyond]

122. it seemed even in elementary they were allowing kids to express

think out loud. much more than we ever got. i am seeing son in middle school and high school. seems to me teachers adn school more aware of critical thinking and allowing htan in past. i am not buying it either.

[hobbit709]

117. A thinking serf is an uppity serf

And that is the last thing TPTB want in their corporate ruled world.

[orpupilofnature57]

141. "All of us are in the gutter ,some of us are looking at the stars" The Pretenders

[sense]

121. John Taylor Gatto book

John Taylor Gatto's Weapons of Mass Instruction focuses on mechanisms of familiar schooling that cripple imagination, discourage critical thinking, and create a false view of learning as a by-product of rote-memorization drills. Gatto's earlier book, Dumbing Us Down, put that now-famous expression of the title into common use worldwide. Weapons of Mass Instruction promises to add another chilling metaphor to the brief against schooling.

Here is a demonstration that the harm school inflicts is quite rational and deliberate, following high-level political theories constructed by Plato, Calvin, Spinoza, Fichte, Darwin, Wundt, and others, which contend the term "education" is meaningless because humanity is strictly limited by necessities of biology, psychology, and theology. The real function of pedagogy is to render the common population manageable.

Realizing that goal demands that the young be conditioned to rely upon experts, remain divided from natural alliances, and accept disconnections from the experiences that create self-reliance and independence.

Escaping this trap requires a different way of growing up, one Gatto calls "open source learning." In chapters such as "A Letter to Kristina, my Granddaughter"; "Fat Stanley"; and "Walkabout:London," this different reality is illustrated.

John Taylor Gatto taught for thirty years in public schools before resigning from school-teaching in the op-ed pages of The Wall Street Journal during the year he was named New York State's official Teacher of the Year. Since then, he has traveled three million miles lecturing on school reform.

This is why we home school.

[Threedifferentones]

129. Well...

And other generations could think critically? Then why did they do so much stupid shit?

I think there have always been "right" and "wrong" conclusions in classrooms. Moreover, history and "social studies" books have always been written/edited to provide a very rosy picture of America's past. It has always been up to parents and a child's own curiosity to build real, constantly questioning logic in us.

[Kaleva]

132. When was critical thought valued?

[seabeyond]

133. listening to bbc this morning talking about student critical thinking in ..... arab countries. U.S

and canada were held up as the nations that shine on critical thinking in their schools. not european or asian nations.

that ironically interesting.

[orpupilofnature57]

146. Why ironic?

[seabeyond]

162. we are talking about it today and lack of. complete opposite of what i was listening bbc. nt

[Paladin]

135. Just Tell Them To Stay Off Your Yard And Let It Go...... (n/t)

[JerseygirlCT]

136. That's why I encouraged my child to seek one of those

denigrated (sometimes) liberal arts educations.

I wasn't prepared for a career immediately upon graduation. But I was taught to think. And to communicate. IOW - prepared not for "a" career, but for whatever path I chose.

The dinner table is also an excellent place for that education!

[orpupilofnature57]

148. The Kennedy's acknowledged the dinner table as The main University

[Echo In Light]

137. George Carlin:

"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you . . . they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it..."

[sammytko]

138. Don't think so - i'm an ed. major - we talk about critical thinking skills all the time

every class.

[orpupilofnature57]

140. Solve any problems or just talk about the mechanisms? B.F.Skinner

Marshall McLuhan,And tons more from Aristotle up ,we've applied all the right thinking the wrong way.

[seabeyond]

142. i agree. teachers, adm more conscious of critical thinking, working harder to bring into schools

that is what i am seeing in childrens education

[newtothegame]

139. Thank god for Hollywood. n/t

[Vidar]

143. Obama is merely following a long tradition of undermining public education.

[orpupilofnature57]

145. How else are you going to make room for Dumb**asses at Yale?

[alarimer]

149. It's not just this generation.

Lack of critical thinking skills pervades our society. There are plenty of people here who believe all kinds of woo, uncritically, despite the fact that there is zero scientific evidence that, say, vaccines cause autism, or that Bush was behind 9/11.

In general, Americans delight in being stupid. "Eggheads" are criticized for being smart and considered elitists, while, the "common man" is celebrated, even though he knows nothing and cares to know nothing.

I would also add that excessive religiosity is to blame for a lot of this. Certainly it is to blame for the poor state of science education in particular.

[aikoaiko]

151. The way I remember my education was that I was required to memorize lots of facts and processes...

...then when I did I could be a better thinker because I knew things to think about. For example, its almost impossible to make connections between ideas (i.e., thinking) if you don't have the ideas at your mental disposal (from memorization).

[LibDemAlways]

152. My daughter is a junior at a "blue ribbon" suburban

public high school which sends 99% of its graduates on to college. She's been in the district since kindergarten. Critical thinking skills aren't even on the radar. It truly is all "memorize and regurgitate." In Honors U.S. History class the current topic is the Revolutionary War, and yesterday's quiz was "match the general to the battle." Unbelievable. Instead of a lecture focusing on the why of the revolution, the teacher is wasting time on making the kids learn a bunch of minute details they will forget as soon as the quiz is over. The bigger picture is completely neglected.

Part of the problem is that requiring the students to write essays requires that the teacher read them, and the last thing some of these teachers want to do is read a bunch of poorly written tripe from kids who've never been taught to think. It's pathetic.

The emphasis on passing standardized tests now carries over to the SAT as well. An entire industry these days is devoted to preparing kids to do well on that ultimate standardized test. My daughter has friends who spent all summer at SAT school. My kid explored the Pacific Northwest and Alaska, and I hope her experience was more educational and rewarding.

[Jim__]

153. I don't know if you're right or wrong.

I'm not around a lot of young people going to school today.

However, I was in high school and college during the Vietnam War. I read the papers a lot and tried to understand what was correct. I'd read about all sides of the issue. When I read a right-wing column, they sounded like they had good arguments. When I read a left-wing column, they sounded correct. I really didn't know how to evaluate the arguments, to play them off one against the other and come to a decision.

Later, after talking to people who had been to Vietnam and talking to people who were aginst the war, I came out against the war.

I'm not sure at if most young people do think critically. If they don't, I'm not sure that means they won't become critical thinkers as they mature.

I do agree with your complaints about multiple choice tests.

[DavidDvorkin]

154. Just like every generation before them.

[Beer on a stick]

155. Exactly. The Chicken Little histrionics here just don't get that.

[DavidDvorkin]

158. I've been through this cycle a few times already,

this generational lament about the awfulness of the current young generation and how inferior they are to those who came before (especially the generation of the one doing the lamenting).

I expect to see it again in the future.

[cliffordu]

156. Is this the intellectual equivalent of "You kids get off my lawn!!!" ?

[tekisui]

161. Maybe.

I am 29, and am in college with a lot of kids just out of high school. I am around them, I am in classes with some, although most of my classes are upper level, I graduate next semester. The majority seem opposed to using their brain. They want to regurgitate, get the grade and go on. They don't discuss current issues, it is all superficial stuff. College does a good job at teaching how to think critically. Those in the upper level classes are much better. But only a small percentage go on to college. I can't imagine what the kids that graduated high school(or didn't) and did not have the desire or ability to go on to college must be like.

[Prophet 451]

160. Too late

This lot are second generation idiots. Critical thinking has been bred out of a terrifying number of the populace. Not only are they idiots but they're actively hostile to anyone who tries to educate them and resentful of "elitists" who know better than them.

I swear, the species is devolving before our eyes.

[superduperfarleft]

165. Oh good. Another thread where everyone who posts is one of the "smart" ones

And they sit around in a circle-jerk and call the Others morons. :eyes:

[tekisui]

169. Is that like saying 'Damn bunch of liberal elites with their damn education'?

I'm not calling anyone a moron. I am saying the system has been designed to produce a population of non-thinkers. It isn't necessarily their fault. You should try the critical thinking yourself, you may enjoy it.:)

[sea four]

166. I'm 20 years old & I question everything. Especially the media

So, you are wrong. There are dumb people in every generation. You can't make generalizations like this.

By the way, it's wasn't my generation that elected people like Reagan and Bush. It was boomers and generation x. We are actually one of the most liberal generations in history, and part of the reason why Obama won. So, which generation has a problem with critical thinking now??

[tekisui]

168. Respectfully, I think you are the exception.

Of course it was a generalization, and by no means to describe everyone. Liberal does not equate to critical thinker, necessarily.

[bvar22]

174. Wait until your generation is FORCED to buy Health Insurance...

...from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

[TwilightGardener]

170. I don't see a problem with critical thought in my teenagers--they

are always asking questions, trying to figure out the world, trying to put things in context. However, the one big problem I see with their intellectual development is this: They don't read. I don't know if my boys are unique or if it's a widespread problem (Harry Potter notwithstanding--and no, my kids didn't even read those, even though we provided those books and many others). If they are bored and I suggest they pick up a book and read, they will laugh at me--"how LAME!" When I was their age, I read all the time, on top of my school reading assignments, just for fun. Novels, non-fiction, magazines--always had something to read. I still read voraciously (and my husband is a reader too), and had hoped it would serve as an example, but I guess not. For them, it's all video games and MySpace and YouTube, and school English assignments are a fate worse than death.

[keroro gunsou]

175. carlin said it best:

they want consumers, just smart enough to work the machines and do all the bitch work, but not smart enough to question their masters.

[orpupilofnature57]

181. I'm telling you Skinner And Mcluhan ,Gutenberg might have been

the biggest foe to critical thinking by inventing ,mass communication. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GvQdDQv8g

[foucaults petulance]

176. NCLB created pressure for standards-based testing; hence, this problem

And of course, the kiddies are getting stoopider and stoopider. That survey in Nebraska where 75% of students didn't know the first President?:puke:

Yup, it controls the masses by creating sheep-minded folks who go with the program. Actually, I just began grad school and am disappointed to see the same brainwash job. I thought advanced degrees were all about critical thinking, not regurgitation.

[BlooInBloo]

177. Ex nihilo, nihil fit...

They're being taught by education majors, who also don't know how to think.

[Chulanowa]

178. Schools have never been about teaching students how to think

They've always been about teaching kids how to regurgitate factoids on command. It's always been like this, but it got worse in the 50's when it was decided that we needed to close the "math gap" with the Russians and de-emphasized things like history, language, and art, subjects that a teacher or the students could have an opinion on and see firsthand.

Lots of young people are sound and critical thinkers despite the system. The trouble is primarily due to parents and lobby groups, both of whom want to keep schools as conservative (in the general meaning of the word, rather than political) as possible.

[imdjh]

180. That's not universally true. I went to a public high school and English was mostly philosophy ...

... and politics. We also had a Government and POlitics semester as part of Social Studies. We had a business class, speech, and technical writing.

[Odin2005]

190. You are way wrong, IMO there is not enough science.

[Chulanowa]

197. Please demonstrate my wrongness

[anonymous171]

203. There's plenty of science. What is missing is the Liberal Arts.

[opihimoimoi]

182. Them old GOP Masters want and work for a dumb class...social engineering is over 50 years old

Bush is a prime example....he don't know shit cept to cheat and lie...

8 YEARS of shitty decisions and photo ops....cost us Big Time...

Cept for a few, most of his Crew were also non thinkers.

Beck, Bachmann, Savage, Vitter, Ensign, Boner, Bobby, Mitt, Rudy, etc are the new GOP?

Where are the Eisenhower's? The Rudman's? and the Goldwaters?

Instead we got the Bushies, and the Cheneys, the Rudys and the Huckys...,OMG...where did we go wrong?

[orpupilofnature57]

186. Their with FDR and the Kennedy brothers

[proud patriot]

183. They will be great Employees won't they?

Read Jonathon Kozal's savage innequalities .

Public schools in the rich neighborhoods teach kids
about being good bosses and owners .. Everyone else
is taught how to punch a timecard .

I lived in both kinds of neighborhoods growing up.
The same county has such innequalities with public
funds it's disgusting .

[orpupilofnature57]

184. I'm telling you Skinner And Mcluhan ,Gutenberg might have been

the end of critical thought.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GvQdDQv8g

[JBoy]

185. The teabag rally attendee demographic data disagrees.

[democracy1st]

191. K & R

[triple point]

192. Thank you thank you thank you thank you

And you've shown how we are sometimes our own worst enemies: we yield power to the very people who stand to gain by keeping us ignorant because they know how to push our insecurity buttons. Too many of us are like the mouse that keeps running right back under the gaping maw of the hungry cat "please eat me, mister feline"

And we are receiving pretty much what we deserve, to be sadly blunt.

[Roland99]

193. It's not that they don't know how. It's that they *don't want to*!

Willful ignorance.

[Captain Hilts]

194. Shorter attention spans inhibit skills needed to follow something and report it accurately. nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

195. It IS by design. Thom Hartmann discuss's it in detail on his show

several times a year. He uses quotes and actual taped interviews by early neocons outlining the plan.

[Locrian]

196. critical thinking = the ability to challenge authority

critical thinking = the ability to challenge authority

In business, government, school, etc. And the "authority" doesn't want to be challenged.

[omega minimo]

201. Ding a ding a ding a ding...............

[Codeine]

205. "Young people are dumb! Civilization is doomed!"

I work with kids just out of high school; most of them would put you to shame intellectually.

[anonymous171]

207. It's just left-wing cultural despair. Happens occasionally when things go sour

On the other side of the spectrum, the RWers are all worried that the younger generation has no "values." Go figure :shrug:

[orpupilofnature57]

209. It's generational ,I'm sure Aristotle or Socrates would say we've been Stupefied

for Ages.

[orpupilofnature57]

211. In The Renaissance of our life ,who wants common sense?We didn't

I thought I was Einstein and couldn't pour pee out of a boot ,with the directions on the bottom of the heel.

[omega minimo]

213. Yeah But Roman Polanski!!!

[omega minimo]

215. Interesting thread. Not one person here mentioned the media and how that influences youth in thinkin

in thinking -- or not. Carlin, Jon Stewart and Colbert were mentioned, as our clowns are the only ones cutting through the current level of crap.

(Not) Having an actual, factual media, the "Fourth Estate," makes a lot of difference in how able people are these days to think for themselves.

[dysfunctional press]

216. it's dangerous to have serfs who can think.

since they tend to think about revolution.