Murdoch's Propaganda Sheet "NY Post" Bashes Michael Moore, New Film

[Matsubara]

Wow, the folks at the Fox Empire can manage to twist just about ANYTHING into a smear against people

trying to promote a better society.

Like Michael Moore - He brings some workers who were neglected by our horrible health care gouging system to Cuba,

which for all its faults provides ALL its people with decent health care, and they twist it into:

MOORE'S 'SICKO' STUNT

the sick sojourn, which some say uses ill 9/11 workers as pawns, has angered many in the responder community.

Who are "some"?

Another ill worker who said he was willing to take the trip ended up being stiffed by Moore.

Dude, you missed the plane, or a letter or an e-mail. That doesn't mean you were "stiffed".

At least they conceded that this is not about aggrandizing Castro..

Although he has been a critic of Cuba, Moore grew popular there after a pirated version of his movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11," was played on state-owned TV.



http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152007/news/worldnews/moores_sicko_stunt_worldnews_janon_fisher.htm?page=0


MOORE'S 'SICKO' STUNT
TAKES 9/11 WORKERS TO CUBA
By JANON FISHER

April 15, 2007 -- Filmmaker Michael Moore's production company took ailing Ground Zero responders to Cuba in a stunt aimed at showing that the U.S. health-care system is inferior to Fidel Castro's socialized medicine, according to several sources with knowledge of the trip.
The trip was to be filmed as part of the controversial director's latest documentary, "Sicko," an attack on American drug companies and HMOs that Moore hopes to debut at the Cannes Film Festival next month.
Two years in the making, the flick also takes aim at the medical care being provided to people who worked on the toxic World Trade Center debris pile, according to several 9/11 workers approached by Moore's producers.
But the sick sojourn, which some say uses ill 9/11 workers as pawns, has angered many in the responder community.



I agree completely with Moore's premise. Cuba is a poor, relatively backward country with a GDP that represents a miniscule fraction of the US', and they provide every citizen with a good education (highest literacy in the hemisphere) and good medical care.

So what the hell is our excuse for not doing so?

[DCKit]

1. K&R Matsubara and welcome to DU n/t

[malaise]

2. Good publicity for the film

The New York Post never learns.

[Matsubara]

3. I hope so.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it.

[Canuckistanian]

39. Exactly

Just spell his name right. Every bit of publicity is good publicity.

[sniffa]

4. k&r

and weLcome to DU.

[Jesterstear]

5. I'm dreading this film...

Moore is as much of a liar and propagandist as his counterparts Limbaugh, Coulter, etc on the right. If he stays true to form and tries to "prove" his point with his usual barrage of lies, half-truths and stunts made up for the camera (like arranging to pick up a gun at a bank and then pretending that anyone can do it), all he will do is cause more problems rather than helping with the health care crisis.

[DCKit]

6. And if the RW'ers go after him as usual, how is that a bad thing?

At least people will talk about the issues. Perhaps he should get a few dozen of our sick vets from this and the Gulf War tested for depleted Uranium and do a documentary about that next.

[Matsubara]

7. Liar is a strong word

And even if there have been small inaccuracies in some of his films, comparing him to our modern-day Goebbelses Coulter and Limabugh is beyond the pale.

When has he ever put out an outright lie?


As for the bank scene- He DID get a gun for opening an account at a bank. He could have been more clear in showing the fact that he had to open a CD, and that there was no ammo,

but the point stands - there is something profoundly screwy about a society where guns are given out at a bank for opening an account.



I'm aware of numerous other inaccuracies and omissions from his films, all of them minor and none detracting from the overall point of the given film.

I've been a fan of his since "Roger and Me" - and it's still my favorite Moore film.

[Jesterstear]

13. Oh, so lying a little bit is OK?

You're way off on the bank scene. The standard rule was that you could not pick up your gun at the bank. Moore arranged to pick his gun up there and lied to the bank about his reasons for wanting to do so. Then he turned around and started in on how bad it was that you could just go in and get a gun at the bank.

[Zhade]

25. Prove it.

Back it up.

[Bjorn Against]

33. And they let him pick up the gun from the bank did they not?

You don't even deny it, you just say he lied about the reasons for wanting to pick it up there. Now I don't know what lie it is that he supposedly told, because you have given no evidence to back up the assertion that he did lie. I won't believe he lied without being shown evidence that he lied but even if he did, why did the bank hand him a gun in the building? Why are they willing to bend the rules for him or anyone else? You don't even deny they allowed him to get a gun in house, so what exactly is your point?

[Cha]

8. Then don't watch it.

Michael Moore is a true patriot and F9/11 brought the truth about the bushits, who provided their own lines, to the big screen when the corporatemediawhores were burying the facts under the corporatebottom line.

[Cleita]

9. Phfft!

Repukes are afraid of this issue, so they will do anything to undercut it just like they have for the last fifteen years. Now they are saying at their little meetings among themselves that it's bringing "socialism" to "murika".

Can't Republicans bring anything more to the debate than riling up fear? And let me tell you some socialism is what we need. It's a hell of a lot better than fascism although even Hitler recognized the need for having a healthy population.

[Jesterstear]

14. What are you talking about?

You have not done anything at all to address what I said, and have just spewed out a stream of garbage.

[Zhade]

27. And you have offered NOTHING to back up your assertions.

NT!

[Cleita]

35. I put plenty of information about this issue on this board and

have done so for the last five years. I'm so sorry you missed it all. However, if you want to inform yourself about what this country needs to do in the way of single payer national health care do go to this website. http://www.pnhp.org. Take the trouble to read what they have researched and do check back when you feel the need to apologize for your garbage.

[Bjorn Against]

10. Moore comes much closer to the truth than the so-called "mainstream media" does...

Moore never tried to sell us the lie that there were weapons of mass destruction, Moore never tried to tell us that Bush won Florida in 2000, Moore never tried to tell us that Bush acted heroically on 9/11. There have been some minor inaccuracies in some of his work (I am sure we have all said some things that were inaccurate at one time or another)but despite those minor inaccuracies the main points of his films have always been solid. And when he made Farenheit 9/11 he had learned his lesson and had several people pouring over his film for inaccuracies, and I don't think you could find a single inaccuracy in the film. It is always interesting to see all the sites trying to debunk Moore's work, and noticing that those sites have far more inaccuracies than Moore's films do.

[Jesterstear]

15. b-b-b-b-b-but....

I hope you don't get upset when you complain about Bush and Repubs reply with "b-b-b-b-but Clinton did..." because you just did the exact same thing. You can't defend Moore and his history of lies, so instead you try to change the topic by talking about Bush.

[Bjorn Against]

26. I didn't change the topic...

My post was specifically about Moore, and the fact that his reporting on Iraq has been FAR more truthful than the reporting of FOX, CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and the other corporate media sources. He never told us Saddam posed a threat with WMDs all those networks did.

You are the one that is making the claim that Moore is a liar, but you have not done anything to back up that claim and then when I point out that Moore is a much accurate source than you are giving him credit for you try to say I am changing the topic. Well you have not done much to articulate your case as to why Moore is as bad as Coulter, now put up some of Moore's statements that were supposedly as despicable as the things that come out of Coulter's mouth. Don't try to tell me I am changing the topic if you can't even back up your own argument.

[Zhade]

28. What history of lies? You haven't given one example supported by evidence.

So? Put up, ace. Back up your words, or we'll have to assume you're another troll trying to spread his own lies.

Got anything? Anything at ALL?

[K8-EEE]

47. WHAT history of lies?

Did you see F-9/11, where were the lies?

[uppityperson]

50. What history of lies?

"look it up" doesn't work. People who post things are supposed to be able to prove it. Otherwise anyone could just post anything. I would like to see what lies you mean. Seriously.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

49. NOT "several people pouring over his film for inaccuracies"

BTW, the word is "poring" not "pouring" as in liquids.

I saw him on TV state that he had the New Yorker Magazine's libel attorneys go over the film with a fine toothed comb THREE TIMES, and they found NOT ONE BIT of falsehood in it. They are $400 or $500 an hour lawyers, I am sure. I'm sure it cost him many thousands of dollars in legal fees.

There was absolutely NO inaccuracy in Fahrenheit 911.

And YES I am a lawyer. I have been trying to get this thru Jester's head, to absolutely no avail.

"Reality is a liberal-based phenomenon." -- Stephen Colbert

[Canuckistanian]

11. Care to back up that "liar" accusation with facts?

What, exactly, did he flat out "lie" about? Got any links?

[Jesterstear]

20. Look them up...

I see no reason why I should bother. I've already been insulted repeatedly and branded as an evil Republican because I dared criticize Moore. Dems are no different than Repubs.... a little clan that freaks out and acts like children when someone dares criticize their hero.

[tabasco]

24. You made the claim. YOU back it up.

I see you are reluctant to do so.

[Zhade]

30. Probably can't, since the "evidence" would come from rightwing liars.

NT!

[Zhade]

29. That's not how it works. You make the assertion, you back it up.

I mean, unless you *want* people to assume you're a lying rightwing fucking asshole here only to spread more lies.

[Canuckistanian]

34. No, YOU made the assertion

I could go to a thousand RW bullshit sites to hear that MM is a liar.

They can't back their shit up with facts.

And it looks like you can't either.

MM has TEAMS of lawyers check his facts for which he makes his statements.

Give me ONE story that wouldn't stand up in court.

[Matsubara]

40. You're not criticizing Moore, you're just calling him names...

...and using vague assertions from RW sources to inadequately back them up.

[Dorian Gray]

44. I do think that Moore twists facts

in order to prove his premise at times, particularly in Bowling for Columbine. Having said that, your arguement here is quite weak. If you are making that assertion with the hopes of engendering conversation about it, you must prove it.

And the problem with the bank issue was not that he arranged to pick it up there, but that there was supposed to be a waiting period to obtain the gun. He, behind the scenes, arranged to go through all that paperwork prior to signing the papers for his account on camera, making it seem as though one could go into a bank, sign up for an account, and leave with a gun.

[uppityperson]

52. You asserted he lies, you need to prove it. Look them up and post them.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jesterstear]

19. Thanks for the nonsense!

What does this have to do with my criticism of Moore? Nothing.

What does this do? It shows that Dems are just like Repubs. Criticize their hero and they go apeshit and start making up accusations against you.

Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance.

[tabasco]

22. Provide examples of Moore's lies.

You were asked before but have not responded.

I suppose it is nonsense asking certain people to serve their country. They just like to watch war on tv.

[trumad]

32. You bring nothing

nothing...

[Canuckistanian]

36. We criticize with FACTS here, not baseless accusations of "Liar"

Your "criticisms" amount to nothing more than unsubstantiated rumor.

Either provide an example or stop posting.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

You'll find things a little different around here.

[Mika]

42. An obvious fact is that the Cuban Ministry of Health treated them for free..

.. while they couldn't afford to get full treatment in the USofA.

Once again, Cuba wins with a propaganda victory by real actions - while the GOP's mealy mouthed "compassionate conservatism" leaves first responders with little action but to suffer and die without adequate care.

Viva the membership of the Cuban Ministry of Health.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

51. Thanks for demonstrating your complete lack of facts.

Michael Moore has NEVER been successfully sued for slander, because he does not lie.
Truth is an absolute defense against slander, which is a civil tort.

There's your evidence, or rather lack of evidence, that he lies.

AND YES I AM A LAWYER. Put up or shut up.

[uppityperson]

53. You need to prove your accusations or you are doing what you accuse of.

[Zhade]

31. Fuck you, troll. You're not fooling us.

NT!

[Zhade]

23. Got a single shred of evidence to back up your assertions?

Anything at all?

[K8-EEE]

46. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS FILM!!!

The deplorable condition of health care in this country is being so ignored, BRING IT ON MICHEAL!

Comparing him to Coulter et al -- what a lie THAT is!!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

48. Everything in Fahrenheit 911 was proven as TRUE.

No one was able to refute ANY of his claims in that film, or he could have been sued for slander and libel. No one has been successful because all of his information was true. Truth is a defense to slander.

He said he had the New Yorker's libel lawyers (that's a magazine for your right wingers) go over his film THREE TIMES. I am sure they are $400 or $500 an hour lawyers and they are not cheap. They found absolutely nothing untrue.

Jester, You are WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

And yes, I AM A LAWYER.

[uppityperson]

54. Are you the unseemly jester? Are you Hugh? Perhaps Series?

:shrug:

[marmar]

17. Pre-Swiftboating....

The Post doesn't deserve to be used as recycled toilet paper.

[Cleita]

38. Yep. The astroturf is being spread early this election season. n/t

[Zhade]

21. All the other lies aside - he's to be held responsible for his movie being pirated?

WTF?

[Canuckistanian]

37. K&R, thanks Matsubara

And Welcome to DU!

:toast:
:hi:

[Matsubara]

41. Thanks.

Back atcha.

[mmonk]

43. Who is Murdoch supporting in 08

and what is their plan for healthcare?

[lovuian]

45. I'll be buying a ticket

Lov Michael

[ConsAreLiars]

55. The simple fact about Cuba's health care, compared to the US Corporate version,

is that they get life expectancy and infant mortality numbers that are very close to the US numbers at 1/10th the cost. Canada does better than the US at half the cost, and one can only imagine what Cuba might do with twice their current budget. See the CIA Factbook on those countries for the numbers.

(edit out stray keyboard blooper)