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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:08 PM
Original message
Questions About Sibel Edmonds
I will start by offering that some or all of Sibel Edmonds claims may be true.

I would hope all DUers use just an ounce of common sense and healthy skepticism in regard to her claims. There are several questions in my mind about her veracity.

Edmonds was hired as a translator at the FBI in 9/22/01. She was fired on 3/20/02. This is a period of almost six months or roughly 180 days. It seems odd that the FBI would allow a newly hired employee access to such explosive and highly sensitive documents as the ones Edmonds claims she read. It could be true, but it bears exploring.

Also, in addition to the FBI allegedly giving a brand new employee access to these bombshell documents that implicate several members of Congress and the White House in the selling of state secrets and treason, Edmonds claims to have immediately been recruited to be a spy by operatives of one of the very networks she was reading about in these explosive documents. Remarkably, the operative that first approached her during her six months at the FBI happened to be working in the very same section as herself. What are the odds?

Over the last eight years Edmonds claims have expanded to cover more and more issues and people. As far as I could determine, she first publicly claimed that the the FBI had been given SPECIFIC information about an attack by Osama Bin Laden in April of '01 by a long term informant for the FBI. Did she find this information in one the documents she read belonging to the FBI? Why would this information even be in a document needing translation when she claims that the FBI agents that interviewed the informant in April '01 had a tramslator with them at the time? Why did she wait so long to drop this bombshell?

All this in just SIX months as a translator at the FBI.

While all of us want to know the truth of Edmonds claims, we should view her accusations with a high degree of skepticism until they are corroborated with hard evidence and witnesses. As of today, it seems Edmonds can say anything she pleases without a shred of proof beyond her word and then hide behind the convenient shield of a gag order. In other words, it COULD also be true that she is lying and that she is milking this situation to the fullest until there is a credible investigation into her claims and the results are made public.

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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sibel used to be a hero around these parts
What has she said to turn everyone against her?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I am not against her. There are just aspects of her story that bear questioning.
She might be telling the truth for all I know.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. What, specifically, has she said that so many people here object to?
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I think it's what she has "not said".
People get annoyed that no real info has come out.... gag order or no.

I also think there is some reactionary opposition to her since she pointed out one Democrat in a highly sensational story.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hmm... Seems to me like PLENTY of real info has come out...
Just nothing that those in power are following up to investigate (the way they SHOULD). Normally she could give about 10% of what she's given out to us to a grand jury, a judge, etc. to either launch an bigger investigation or to get people indicted.

The fact that they aren't following through on it isn't something I would damn her for, but the system itself, which seems to be pretty damn broken and corrupt now.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. That is true.
If I were in a position of power in the system I'd be beyond intrigued by her claims and would ask for some evidence and otherwise look into the matter. I'm perplexed as to why there aren't official investigations.

...which is either an indicator that the system is being gamed, or that her claims are unsupported. Impatient people seem to be breaking towards claim number two, as many do whenever explosive new empire-shattering claims are made and never seem to shatter the empire.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. She implied that Obama is implicated because of his Chicago associates. n/t
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. our good friend D Rep Jan Schakowsky has been named as a victim
of Turkish blackmailers. It was all good fun as long as only RePukes were involved in Edmonds disclosures. Now we think twice.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It used to primarily be the anti-9/11 inside job crowd who hated on her so much.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. indeed--I would be very upset if our heroine Sibel turned out to be
not as credible as we believed. I confess I found Schakowsky's denial a bit on the shrill side.
I'm stumped.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. I think Schankowsky has a choice now...
She can either still stay in denial and hope that the complete government coverup "covers" for her as well and doesn't "ditch her" when things get hotter, or she can come forward with the truth (especially if like what Sibel says she's not guilty of any submission to attempts at blackmail). People here and I think most of her constituents would support her with the courage to admit she had an affair, if they felt she were being honest about it and not trying to hide things further. I think her response to Sibel's allegations are already starting to take this option away from her, and some have said in other areas perhaps draw a picture around her of perhaps submitting to this blackmail, or perhaps even worse, being knowledgable about a wider conspiracy that is not yet being pointed to by what Sibel is saying, but which she is afraid that things like lie detector tests, etc. might put her in the forefront of such an investigation if that were to happen later.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sibel Edmonds may be giving us "the straight scoop." However, some of the message
is disquieting because it concerns one of our democratic representatives.

I, for one, will hesitate from going into an attack mode for I know little to nothing about said democratic representative identified.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. When even folks like this congresswoman are implicated, it now is easier to see how impeachment...
... and other investigations and prosecutions of the former administration has been avoided like the plague.

We're given a window of what is likely just one of many blackmail schemes that have been used on our members of congress. If many others exist too, it is not hard to see why impeachment was "off the table" earlier, to avoid getting screwed.

I would LIKE to think that like what Sibel has been saying, Ms. Shankowski didn't do anything really wrong, other than to her own husband and family through the affair itself, and that she didn't actually aquiesce to blackmailing demands other than trying to keep it private and quiet.

If she can accept that it is now public, and that it was just an exposure of her private life (like Clinton's was exposed), perhaps if we can show we strongly support her despite that if she makes a solid commitment towards not being subject to blackmail in the future, that might also be a good symbol for the future for other congress critters that might be afraid of the same sort of thing happening to them with their private lives being exposed, if that's all they are fearful of, and that they will get more courage to do the right thing in asking for investigations, etc.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Unfortunately, you might be correct.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. She was a part-time contractor for those 6 months.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. not a definitive answer but
translators of Farsi, are hard to find.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. If there is no real investigation, then there will be no
cororborating evidence.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Let me try to break down and provide answers to your questions here...
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 04:19 PM by cascadiance
Edmonds was hired as a translator at the FBI in 9/22/01. She was fired on 3/20/02. This is a period of almost six months or roughly 180 days. It seems odd that the FBI would allow a newly hired employee access to such explosive and highly sensitive documents as the ones Edmonds claims she read. It could be true, but it bears exploring.


There was a shortage of translators they could find that would be able to translate the backlog of documents they had. In short they were desperate. Sibel in fact I believe had already submitted an application earlier before September 11th and they hadn't responded to her earlier job inquiry. I'll double check that. But finding individuals that would pass security clearance checks with these skills were people they needed and were hard to come by. From the sounds of it, they hired far less trustworthy people like Melek Can Dickerson, who was married to and tied to some of the very entities they were watching. I would think that person would be a far bigger risk than Sibel was to put on the staff.

Also, in addition to the FBI allegedly giving a brand new employee access to these bombshell documents that implicate several members of Congress and the White House in the selling of state secrets and treason, Edmonds claims to have immediately been recruited to be a spy by operatives of one of the very networks she was reading about in these explosive documents. Remarkably, the operative that first approached her during her six months at the FBI happened to be working in the very same section as herself. What are the odds?


The odds? It is documented that Melek Can Dickerson and her husband LEFT the country. If that were made up, it would have been disputed by many a long time ago, but WASN'T! And part of the problem is that since the documents WEREN'T translated which is what she was paid to do, that arguably many of the documents management DIDN'T KNOW implicated congress people before they had her translate them.

Over the last eight years Edmonds claims have expanded to cover more and more issues and people. As far as I could determine, she first publicly claimed that the the FBI had been given SPECIFIC information about an attack by Osama Bin Laden in April of '01 by a long term informant for the FBI. Did she find this information in one the documents she read belonging to the FBI? Why would this information even be in a document needing translation when she claims that the FBI agents that interviewed the informant in April '01 had a tramslator with them at the time? Why did she wait so long to drop this bombshell?


She not only did raw translations, but she also "reviewed" others translations, like that of the other suspect translator Melek Can Dickerson, who she notes had mistranslated documents, and potentially for reasons to be concerned about concerning her ties to investigation targets. She was likely reading documents (and listening to wiretaps, etc.) from Turkey, many of the former Soviet "stan" republics and even the Uyghur part of China that spoke a variant of Turkish language or Azeri (Azerbaijan). She also translated Farsi as well (Persian documents from Iran). That would have quite a few of many suspect documents going through her desk.

All this in just SIX months as a translator at the FBI.


Keep in mind, that she wasn't just reviewing documents of what happened over those six months, but a huge backlog of documents that were from the late nineties as well. And in fact she worked pretty quickly, as her bosses wanted her to "slow down" which was one of her contentions of problems in how the group was managed.

While all of us want to know the truth of Edmonds claims, we should view her accusations with a high degree of skepticism until they are corroborated with hard evidence and witnesses. As of today, it seems Edmonds can say anything she pleases without a shred of proof beyond her word and then hide behind the convenient shield of a gag order. In other words, it COULD also be true that she is lying and that she is milking this situation to the fullest until there is a credible investigation into her claims and the results are made public.


Look, she had both a Democratic and Republican senator (Grassley and Leahy) vouch for her integrity, as well as the inspector general which did a report and the public version supported her claims, and she took lie detector classes which she passed. THAT is why the government way back in the beginning didn't take issue with her and publicly rip her apart to begin with if in fact she was fabricating this. There is TOO MUCH support out there in terms of agents in the field, lie detector tests, inspector general reports, etc. that support her being truthful for them to take issue with that. If the government were truly honorable in its operations and not corrupt, then they would have tried to investigate this far more earlier. But they have basically left it alone and issued gag orders, hopefully to keep her quiet, and get her to back down and hoping that noone would talk about it and it would just "go away". The fact that foreign media is far more covering of her story than our domestic media is a clear example of how our corrupt state is trying to silence her in addition to the "gag order". That gag order wasn't issued as a "convenient shield" for her. It was a means to keep her quiet without raising a rucus if they tried anything else more extreme.

You REALLY need to study her case more extensively before alleging that she is lying. If she were lying, it would have been A LOT easier for the government to throw her in prison a lot longer ago. She's sitting on top of some VERY hot information that way too many people in both parties don't want to have exposed in my book. She'd have to be a damn good actor to be making this all up and not be in prison now.

Now, some have conjectured that she might have stumbled on a massive disinformation scheme by some deeply secret intelligence operation that Marc Grossman was involved with that was USING Brewster Jennings as a means to provide false information for the targets of WMD proliferation that it wss supposed to be monitoring when Valerie Plame was supposed to be in charge of it.

But if that were the case, and part of this disinformation campaign was for Grossman to knowingly expose Brewster Jennings, which from the outside would look like an act of treason (which it does), doesn't it follow suit that an effective disinformation campaign should follow through on making the consequences of such "false flag" actions look real to the public (and presumably the enemy)? If that were the case, and they wanted Brewster Jennings to look real (and still look real), then why isn't Marc Grossman being tried for treason now? Why WOULD they implicate Marc Grossman in that way to force him to face charges of a capital offense? Something stinks, and stinks rotten. BTW, did you know that Marc Grossman both went to the same university as Joe Wilson (Valerie Plame's husband, not the rogue SC congress critter)? That by itself ought to have you wonder what's really going on.

If all of these other congress critters taking bribes or passing information was part of such a secret operation, why aren't they being prosecuted to have that scheme be believable as well? The fact that it is so silent, and the media AND the government like Henry Waxman are doing their damndest to ignore Sibel should tell you that something is VERY wrong!
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Sounds reasonable.
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 04:17 PM by Guy Whitey Corngood
:thumbsup:








.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. +2
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. A liar would not have been gagged by the Justice Department.
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 04:19 PM by mmonk
A liar would have been dismissed as a liar, plain and simple. No human being is perfect. But the Inspector General found her dismissal by the FBI as wrong or inappropriate as well as finding that her claims had basis in fact. I would suggest visiting these sights as at least as a minimum as well as taking note of court briefs and more in her favor by many organizations.

http://www.justacitizen.com/

http://www.justacitizen.com/JustaCitizen-Court_Files.htm

http://www.nswbc.org/

http://www.nswbc.org/letters_documents.htm

Who is hiding behind classification and the state secrets privilege? Sibel? Was she the one that issued the classifications or imposed the state secrets privilege?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. An answer about who defends Edmonds claim.
Representative Henry Waxman and two Senators defended her, Patrick Leahy and Charles Grassley . Grassley, a Republican, even went on camera to speak up for her. Behrooz Sarshar, another translator, took information to Grassley to support her claims, but the senator has not acted on it. In an informal meeting, FBI investigators confirmed that there was substance to her charges.




A Justice Department Inspector General's letter, released January 14, 2004, concluded that her claims "were supported, that the FBI did not take them seriously enough, and that her allegations were, in fact, the most significant factor in the FBI's decision to terminate her services." Attorney General John Ashcroft, retroactively classified what she had told Congress as well as the Inspector General=s report http://forwardamerica.blogspot.com/2007/03/sybil-edmonds-muzzled-whistle-blower.html
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The defense of Edmonds by these people is limited
As far as I can tell, Edmonds claims of mismanagement of her department and misconduct by fellow employees is the ONLY thing that these people have supported. I have yet to find that any of these people support her allegations concerning high treason and the selling of state secrets by sitting members of Congress and highly placed government officials. Using the support of Senators and the IG to claim that ALL of Edmonds claims are true is disingenuous.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. She did have her testimony before the 9/11 commission censored from the report...
... and that was about the time that these other individuals supported her credibility.

The bottom line is that because its being covered up you or I DON'T KNOW what they are referring to. If they felt she was lying later and they were on record for having supported her credibility, don't you think they would have asked a court to go after her for perjury?

You're assuming a LOT!

The bottom line is, that no matter who has information like this, if they did have it, it would be DAMN HARD to get others to acknowledge that it exists, if it in fact does. And if it weren't true, I still submit that she would have been shut down a LONG time ago. All they would need to be able to do is to prove her lying ONE time to shut down her credibility and any stories she would tell. The fact that they haven't even tried is very telling in my book.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think she is completely bogus
And has been lying the entire time.
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