CITIBANK REJECTS BUSINESS ACCOUNT BASED ON POLITICAL VIEWS

[ThePantaloon.com]

Dear Readers:
We recently submitted an application for a business banking account with Citibank. Our application was denied based on the content of our website, www.thepantaloon.com. We sought further explanation and were told that the website may offend people and could embarrass Citibank. (As if being a zombie bank and a crap company weren't embarrassing enough - oh, and our tax dollars are keeping it alive.)

We then sought further explanation from a branch manager and a business loan officer, who told us that "Citibank is a very conservative bank" and that it would not support our site because it's a Democratic progressive, liberal humor site.

We thought we heard wrong and asked, "So this is a decision based on politics? Citibank won't give us a simple checking account because our views our liberal?"

"That's right. And controversial."

DOES ANYONE ELSE FIND THIS DEEPLY, DEEPLY DISTURBING?

[Myrina]

1. Wow, then they need to offload my mortgage to another carrier ...

... since I am a 'liberal progressive' and obviously my money would burn holes in their 'conservative' coffers ...

[WCGreen]

2. It's discrimination and you should call the ACLU...

[DearAbby]

115. I second that

or third that, ...I got here late.

[tsuki]

3. I don't think this is bank policy. Sounds like a rogue branch manager. nt

[ThePantaloon.com]

12. This is Citibank policy- we confirmed it.

We confirmed that it was Citibank's vague policy from their Compliance Department. Our lawyer asked for their Legal Department to call us, but they declined.

We're not alone in this. Here's a different story from a different kind of business:

http://www.wakingvixen.com/blog/2008/08/19/i-meet-the-business-end-of-citibanks-anti-adult-business-policy/

[tsuki]

51. Get all the info together and send it to Bill Maher. He does not like

"shittybank." Maybe he can use it for a routine.

[ThePantaloon.com]

68. Good idea

[Big Orange Jeff]

87. While not impossible, it sounds a little iffy, like you're trying to get publicity for your site.

Can you get this in writing and post it here? It would help prove the authenticity to the DU skeptics. It will also help you with any litigation you may wish to pursue.

Just a suggestion.

[Renew Deal]

4. This is the most interesting spam I have ever seen on DU

Very creative!

[ThePantaloon.com]

8. This is not spam

This is a true story. You can e-mail me if you like to discuss it. We're not happy about it. So please save your hair-trigger judgment.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[ThePantaloon.com]

42. E-mail me

E-mail me if you really think we'd make this up. I am pissed off about it and don't appreciate the insult added to the injury.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[dogknob]

30. And you do... WHAT exactly?

Get used to it, Renew Dude. Many people here on DU run small online businesses and they are going to get mentioned here on DU from time to time.

Instead of griping about "spam" coming from people who can't even get a bank account, why don't you share YOUR latest creative endeavor with us? How about a link?

I have already stopped holding my breath, BTW.

[Renew Deal]

109. lol

Right. He can't get a bank account because of his "views." How convenient that he pumps his website in his username and his somewhat believable sob story. There's a sucker born every minute.

[dogknob]

111. While we chat...

... and while everyone is distracted by the Health Care debacle, the right is quietly doing things to repress free speech. Like getting the US court of appeals to admonish the FCC for trying to limit Comcast's media ownership to 30%. Meanwhile, Comcast is systematically dropping MSNBC from its basic cable service while keeping FOX and right-wing mouthpieces test-market the idea of suppressing the media by holding high-profile speaking engagements closed to media coverage.

Refusing to do business with liberals is suppression of speech. Pantaloon is obviously not Big Media and I have no problem at all with them mentioning their website because it attempts to provide information. It attempts to provide a service. They are not hawking porn or get-rich-quick BS. I never heard of them before today and I never would have had they not "spammed" here. Their post is not spam and I'm glad I saw it.

Their problem, even if it isn't real (although I hear they are discussing with DU moderators the legality of posting the Citibank rejection letter), belongs here because it is a political issue. That's what we do here, right?

[scheming daemons]

35. Yeah.... this OP and his username ALMOST got me to click on his site...

...but in the end, it was a MASSIVE FAIL.

[ThePantaloon.com]

44. Seriously.

I don't give a shit if you click the site. I just want people to know exactly what happened.

[scheming daemons]

50. Sure... that's why you made several repeated references to the site in your OP

Clever attempt, anyway.

[cbdo2007]

5. It doesn't sound like it's because of YOUR political views specifically...

sounds like that is their policy whether you were a democrat or a republican site, which could be explained further in their account terms.

It sounds like they are using the term "conservative" not in the political sense but in a sense that they don't want to be involved in things that may cause controversy, which is typical of many companies.

[ThePantaloon.com]

15. We asked about that.

We spoke on the phone with a bank rep and said, "Is this a political view decision because we're progressive." She said yes. We then pointed out that Citibank is based in liberal New York City, and she said that they're still very conservative.

[Name removed]

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[Dorian Gray]

85. Not because it's an adult-themed site?

[Nikki Stone1]

6. Open your account at a local credit union. It's bound to be safer than shitty bank.

:kick:

[dogknob]

32. Great Idea! n/t

[DebbieCDC]

7. So they can take taxpayer bailout money

but refuse service to taxpayers? Oh boy, this won't fly. Hello ACLU?

[kestrel91316]

9. Take your money elsewhere. And file a complaint against the person

who told you this with the bank's higher-ups. Betcha they'll fire him or come crawling back to you.

[Winterblues]

10. Get it in writing or it is simple "he says-she says"

:shrug: Unless you have a couple of witnesses that is..

[Hansel]

53. The the OP is speaking over the phone the call is probably recorded. nt

[yawnmaster]

11. and you chose to attempt to do business with a "zombie bank", "crap company", why?? eom

[Name removed]

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[Uben]

13. No, not really

It doesn't surprise me. It does surprise me they told you the truth, though. Why would you want to do business with them, given their views. I cancelled my CitiBank cards last year, and I will never do business with them ever again. Not that I had a problem with them, I just disagree with their affilliations and refuse to support anyone who feels they need to discriminate due to political leanings.

Fuck em and find another bank. Citibank sucks. In fact, all banks suck. I use a credit union for my checking and savings accounts, and have since 1990. Never had a problem with my credit union....ever. I once drove to Dallas to look at buying a corvette convertible. I called the CU and asked if I could get the money wired to the seller immediately. It was done in 5 minutes...over the damn phone! Show me a bank that'll do that!


edit: I checked out you're site........way cool!

[ThePantaloon.com]

19. Why we went to Citibank at first

Several of us had pre-existing personal accounts with Citi for years- before they were a zombie bank. NO MORE. WE'RE ALL PULLING OUR MONEY OUT AND FINDING A REAL BANK. YOU'RE RIGHT!

[Name removed]

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[dogknob]

98. Spam is relative...

... to the setting. Pantaloon mentioned their site in the context of a politically themed discussion because THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE about. Trolling this post, however, reeks of "spam" in this context. Instead of just screaming "You Lie!" you could offer an opposing viewpoint with some sort of valid argument in defense of Citibank...

... but as your Hero Joe Wilson has demonstrated, facts are irrelevant, finding them takes valuable time that you can just use to scream "You Lie!," so don't bother getting off your keester to PROVE that Pantaloon is lying.

A guy who racks up as many irrelevant posts as yourself without taking the time to do any actual research is guilty of mass-spamming. How many other forums do you pollute with your fact-free babytalk? Do you monitor the postings of people who disagree with you so you can auto-de-rec them before you even read them? Guess what? Step up! Bring it! I am immune to de-recs!

I never even HEARD of Pantaloon before I read this thread. That's what a "forum" is supposed to be: a free exchange of ideas. It is absolutely appropriate for Pantaloon to reference their website instead of clogging up this board with stuff they have already written elsewhere. Thanks for the tasty "Kool-Aid" Pantaloon.

BTW, check out The Pantaloon

[anigbrowl]

116. "I never even HEARD of Pantaloon before I read this thread." Well, duh

I guess that part of the reason is because the DU account was just created yesterday and this thread contains the bulk of posts made with it so far.

Of course, one might ask why the parent company, Dream Designs Web (see the copyright notice at the bottom of thepantaloon.com) doesn't have its own business account. See: http://www.dreamdesignsweb.com/

Oh, guys, you don't need an apostrophe in 'client's'.

[dogknob]

118. I suspect...

... that it is because DreamDesignsWeb designed the site and the content is not theirs.

[dogknob]

119. Apostrophe's

Apostrophe's WHAT? I don't know who gets more unwanted and incorrect exposure these days, the apostrophe or Kanye West.

[pundaint]

79. I have just completed my withdrawal form

OK, if they want to make doing business with them a political referendum, I'll vote for change. Let's all take our nasty left-wing money out, and help keep citi pure.

[Zix]

14. Are we all very clear on this now?

Is there anyone left who doubts the reality of class warfare?

[Uben]

18. Class warfare?

What does this have to do with class warfare?

[ShortnFiery]

65. Everything: An educated populace makes it difficult for the M$M to control the chattering classes.

Any type of information that is not supportive of the financial status quo, to include CORPORATE WELFARE, is squashed out of the gate.

To be perfectly honest, I'm amazed that we are blessed with three progressive evening shows on MSNBC. That's gonna change IF/WHEN anything untoward happens. :(

WE, THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS, have bailed out Wall Street so that even as we barely make ends meet in the "chattering class" world, the power elite live HIGH off of our money. Also, there will ALWAYS be money for The Pentagon. Where does that leave the average hard working non-millionaire USA citizen?

This is all about CLASS WARFARE not race.

In the financial world, there's only one color: GREEN.

[gateley]

16. What are you going to do about it? nt

[ThePantaloon.com]

20. Let everyone know

We're going to let everyone know and pull our money out and hope Citibank swirls down the toilet of incompetence.

[gateley]

27. Do you know if that's legal? (I haven't read all the posts in this thread -- may

have been addressed).

I do like that somebody suggested you contact the ACLU -- always good for media coverage, and since they've got YOUR tax money to help them stay afloat...

Also, local news outlets might give it some coverage and maybe do some damage to that particular branch.

[ThePantaloon.com]

40. We have a lawyer on staff

Here's the problem. A private bank can choose to do business with anyone they want. There is nothing illegal about what Citibank is doing. But a private individual doesn't have to do business with Citibank either based on its absurd policies. See this blog:

http://www.wakingvixen.com/blog/2008/08/19/i-meet-the-business-end-of-citibanks-anti-adult-business-policy/

Here's an interesting question though. Constitutional violations like infringement of free speech arise when you have a "state actor" (a government agent) that curtails your rights. Query: is Citibank is partly a government entity because of TARP, and, if so, is it a state actor?

Now, we don't want to get involved in a legal battle; we just want to tell people not to patronize that bank.

[Cha]

43. No problem..I dropped citibank

months ago.

[Name removed]

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[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. And you were looking to just open a checking account?

Not applying for a line of credit or anything like that?

[ThePantaloon.com]

25. Just a simple business checking account

That's it. A simple account. Our individual members' credit is stellar and we have assets with Citi. IT'S NO WONDER CITIBANK IS A ZOMBIE!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

31. WOW!! I thought there might be a little more to it, but just a checking account

blows my mind.

It's almost like an attempt at restraint of free speech. I think it's well worth a call to banking regulators and possibly some legal action.

[Name removed]

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[Jack Rabbit]

21. OK, CitIBank, I'd like to withdraw my tax dollars

Now.

Die, motherfuckers.

[sentelle]

66. how to withdraw tax dollars

Do we like, walk up to a teller and ask for them, or do we need to fill out a form.
And what about those of us where there is no Shitty-bank Branch?

[Jack Rabbit]

108. If you want to fill out a form to accomplish this goal, start with this one . . .

Please click here.

[KittyWampus]

23. I don't believe you and think you're trying to get web traffic.

[ThePantaloon.com]

28. It's true

Contact me via e-mail and I'll tell you the entire friggin' story. I'll even talk to you on the phone if you want. And we'll post the letter they're supposed to be sending us from the legal department canceling the business account they first opened for about a day before they looked at our site.

No kidding.

[Name removed]

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[scheming daemons]

36. Bingo n/t

[indepat]

24. Guess all that TARP money and hundreds of billions of dollars in Federal loan guarantees were

conservative money. Perhaps the perfect squelch would be for CITI to be squashed by this labeled liberal, socialist, fascist, Hitler-like leader of the free world thusly maligned by freeper, tea-bagger type maggots. :P

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[ThePantaloon.com]

33. Nope, you're wrong.

This is a real story that infuriates us. Why would we post something that's untrue - it would be the biggest dumbass stunt ever and it would be defamation against Citibank. We're not stupid.

We posted this because we thought people should know what happened. We don't give a crap about "hits." There is a fundamental problem in this country with the banking industry, and it has gone beyond insane risks and incompetence and greed; it's now apparently a political issue.

You're welcome to e-mail me if you still have doubts.

[scheming daemons]

39. Dude... you username and "product placement" in your OP gives you away

You are going too far in trying to direct traffic to your site.


You're been exposed.


Accept it, and move on.

[ThePantaloon.com]

52. Last time

So this guy is making up his story, too?

http://www.wakingvixen.com/blog/2008/08/19/i-meet-the-business-end-of-citibanks-anti-adult-business-policy/

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[JBoris]

71. dupe

[Name removed]

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[SOS]

117. self-delete

now that the mods have deleted the BS posts.

[samsingh]

94. well you've only got 41 posts

if you're a liberal site looking for traffic - no problems coming here. i clicked and looked at your site. interesting.

if you're a repug trying to stir something up - you'll get shut down eventually and you may actually learn something useful from this site.

if it's true, the whole description sounds fishy. why would they be so stupid to antagonize money holding liberals?

anyway - we'll see if the legal letter every gets posted.

for all i know you're a BAC employee trying to screw Citi.

[MelissaB]

37. Hey, I've got two links in my sig. line. Hit me!

:rofl:

[KittyWampus]

48. you didn't just sign up for DU yesterday.

[samsingh]

95. okay i've hit them both

[Liberal_in_LA]

29. wow

[Initech]

34. What bullshit!

[Octafish]

38. Boycott the rotters.

If capitalism's rules applied equally to our corporate brothers and sisters, these stiffs on Wall Street wouldn't have gotten one thin dime of tax money. Unless its to their advantage, they have NEVER wanted to see tax dollars spent on welfare, as they once loved to remind us, or the Great Society, New Deal or anything that smacks of progress.

[Name removed]

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[ThePantaloon.com]

54. You're as crazy as the Citibank people

http://www.wakingvixen.com/blog/2008/08/19/i-meet-the-business-end-of-citibanks-anti-adult-business-policy/

[Name removed]

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[bmbmd]

45. Someone has to say it.

I checked your site out-very clever. Onion-esque. The "My Space" article really rings true. Good luck.

[Deep13]

46. Yes.

The government supports them and they ought to be a public service.

The "Real teabagger" story: hilarious.

[onenote]

47. do I find this disturbing? yes and no

Sure, its a drag when a business chooses not to do business with someone based on factors that I disagree with (but the decision doesn't violate any laws).

Of course, if this was an instance where, for example, a freeper site was being given the shart, I suspect a lot us would be applauding them.]

To put it in different terms: many of us (inculding me) have supported efforts to get various business to stop supporting beck and rush because of beck and rush's political extremism. I would not like it a bit if beck/rush could somehow claim that they were being discriminated against by those businesses that were persuaded by our efforts.

[ThePantaloon.com]

55. I agree

I agree that Citibank can do business with whomever it wants. But so can we. That's why I posted this. Let the GOPers support Citi.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Festivito]

56. Yes, it's disturbing if it's about liberal, et.al.

It could be about sexuality, suggestivity, and I'm surprised that would not be what they said.

So,
They are afraid to have:
Democracy (Do they realized people have fought and died for that.)
progressives (are they Amish?)
humor and (no humor, wow, that's conservative!)
liberal (like JFK? who made a great statement about being liberal.BELOW:)

Are they the kind of people who would have killed JFK, who like the idea that he died? Just wondering.

And, I'd wonder. Do they need a definition for ignorant, stupid or idiot?
....
If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
....
No wonder they'd hate Kennedy :sarcasm:.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents/35_kennedy/psources/ps_nyliberal.html

[ThePantaloon.com]

64. Here's another thing the branch manager said

She said, "You have a picture of someone pointing a gun at the camera and his name is 'Teabagger.'" We explained to her that it was a caricature of a rightwing Teabagger, it was a joke. She said we can't give you an account. I'm telling you, it's friggin' mindboggling.

[Name removed]

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[datasuspect]

82. what loan officer in their right mind would write someone a loan for a shitty, two-bit blog?

is that your business plan? post a blog?

a dim one at that?

jeez.

SEO/SEM/link-building take time. one surefire way to NOT succeed is to post comments that are just shameless plugs for your site.

[Festivito]

84. Not to give us the whole story up front is smarmy or spammy, sorry.

Good luck. Write 'em a letter.

[samsingh]

96. your dribbles of information do not support your story - sounds make up

oh another thing...


oh another thing ...

oh another thing....

i'm thinking on the fly here.

[scheming daemons]

100. +10 n/t

[samsingh]

102. what do you mean +10??

[scheming daemons]

103. I'm given you 10 bonus points for a great post.

;-)

[samsingh]

105. cool

i love Colbert

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[ShortnFiery]

77. I'm all for a diverse Internet. IF you have been up front, CitiBank has no right to

deny you an account.

Best wishes and know that I belong to a Credit Union and suggest that's where you need to put your funds. :hi:

[lukasahero]

78. "Yes, we have promoted our site on here before."

Dude - you've been on the site for 2 days, have a mere 36 posts and admit that in that time you've promoted your site. Pardon us if some of us feel that's really all you're interested in doing here.

[ShortnFiery]

81. DUDE - eating our own - small business - is just what the Power Elite wish for.

Consider this - even if he is promoting his site, the behavior of CitiBank is deplorable.

Keep your eye on the prize? :shrug:

[lukasahero]

83. One problem - I don't believe the story about Citibank

I don't for one second believe that the rep opening the account went out to the website and based the approval on what they saw there.

Eye on the prize? How about living in the real world?

[JBoris]

86. +1 nt

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[samsingh]

97. stop YELLING

[TreasonousBastard]

89. I don't care if it's spam or not, I don't find it this disturbing...

I refused to deal with organizations I didn't like when I worked for a megazillion company, and it was within my authority to do so.

What if someone here refused to do business with a rightwinger? Would they be demon or hero?

(would Citibank be demonized if refused an account to Town Hall, or Stormfront?)

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

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[TreasonousBastard]

93. I didn't say it wasn't spam, just that I don't care, but...

do care about the point he's making.

Since I have been in a similar position to the one the possibly mythical bank mangers are said to be in, I care more about this point than whether or not this sad tale actually happened.

It could have happened, and might be happening at this very moment somewhere else.

[dogknob]

112. Yep.

It can happen, it does happen.

Whether or not it actually happened to Pantaloon is becoming less and less relevant. If you think it's spam, just ignore it. Simple as that. If Pantaloon is spamming, they will get shut down.

My sig line contains a link to my site, which is brand-new and barely functional. Is this spam? I think not. If I were hawking porn and buying up your "unwanted gold," then posting in a political forum would definitely be spamming. Linking one's website in a relevant post in a relative forum is NOT spam.

[samsingh]

99. good point

[REP]

91. Unbelievable!

Really. Unbelievable.

There's a kid around here you should meet; he runs into the most imaginary interesting people at his restaurant job and he and his family are always having crises that coincide with the hot issue du jour. You two would have a lot in common.

[scheming daemons]

92. My guess: Citibank loan officer said "I'll give you a loan if you get your hit count up"

....and hence... OPs like this one.

[AspenRose]

104. Wow.

:popcorn:

[ShortnFiery]

106. Yes, we deserve corporations such as CitiBank ... view the "free market" at work?

:crazy:

[AspenRose]

113. Once upon a time I worked for Citibank, so I'm not impressed with them

My comment was focused on the spam attempt....

[ddeclue]

107. SPAM MUCH?

:shrug:

This is a pretty transparent attempt to get web hits.

[votingupstart]

110. well i was about to offer some advice on how to get some media attention on this

but apparently you are not being truthful -- Shame... Shame...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

114. A fascinating thread for many reasons

1.I am a very trusting person and I accepted the OP at face value. They were specific with the name of the bank - they DIDN'T say something like "a very large bank we are all familiar with" and they posted under their real website name and said the problem was with the content of their real website. I'm sure the bank in question can easily find them if the story is a complete sham.

2.Their website was an INTEGRAL part of the story - so I think if they HADN'T posted it, it would have been more suspicious than not. Plenty of posters here have websites they promote either by having it embedded in their signature or in other ways. Some of them, I am VERY proud to have post here (like Bradblog and a few others I can think of). It's pretty amazing how in-your-face some posters were with their immediate accusations of spamming and lying. Of course, they might be much smarter than me and recognized a scam from the getgo, wouldn't be the first time. Anyway, I don't have any problem with people promoting their websites unless it is in a completely obnoxious, ongoing, obvious, irrelevant fashion.

3. The OP posted some other site which apparently had a similar experience (which I didn't look at, because I hesitate to go to unknown links just out of caution anyway, and the name seemed like it might be questionable) and some posters appeared to say that the OP took their story from. Why would they do that? If I thought if I had a crappy experience like the one in the OP I might Gooogle to see if anyone had ever had a similar experience and then lo and behold I find one and I post it to prove to people that I am not the first one to have this experience. Seems like a reasonable explanation.

4. Is the story believable on the face of it? I really don't know. Were the checks in the name of the business (as many are?). So is the bank issuing checks that have as the account holder the Op's website name? So, perhaps out of curiosity they click on the website and disapprove of the content and somehow feel it reflects poorly on them for beng the banker of the website. I think this is where things get very interesting. The bank is now setting themselves up as making content approval part of their business checking practices. Do they apply this policy across the board? Does every business checking account have to submit their website for content approval by the branch manager? Is it just political content that gets approved or disapproved? How about sexual orientation? Would a GLBT website be approved? A Wiccan one? This gets really fascinating the more you delve into this question.

5. Someone posted above that companies should be able to do business with whomever they please. Not banks. Banks get into lots of trouble when they arbitrarily refuse business for questionable reasons. Ever hear of redlining?

6. Everything above is completely moot if the OP made the whole thing up.


Anyway, I'll be interested to see how this ultimately falls out.

[lynne]

120. Novel method of luring us to your website and using DU for FREE ADVERTISING -

- BTW, I do not believe your BS story for one minute. It was mere bait for us to click on your website.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

121. I'm still curious. Any update?

[Trillo]

122. Then they shouldn't take any money from any progressive democrats,

or taxpayer dollars (which has some % of money from progressives).

But hypocrisy rules money, or is it, money rules hypocrisy.

[gleaner]

123. Yes ...

I find it very disturbing and infuriating. It is vintage Shittybank. I have one question for them? How would anyone know that you had an account? People who received checks, yes, but how would they know what type of website you hosted? You might ask Shittybank if they were going to violate banking secrecy and take out a large ad on a billboard.

It could have been worse though. You could have gone to Chase Manhattan. They are even worse than Shittybank. You should send a copy of your post to Senator Christopher Dodd of the Senate Banking Committee. They are working on regulating banking practices to ease the burden on consumers. He is a Democrat and might find your post as compelling as I do. Good luck.