Logging is the most dangerous job. Followed by pilot and fisherman.

[daedalus_dude]

By fatality rates, according to this website:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/pf/jobs_jeopardy/

Soldier and policeman doesn't even appear on the list.

So why are people willing to give cops and soldiers a free pass for misbehaving on the job and commonly justify it with phrases like "just look how dangerous their job is" and "we should admire our heros in uniform who put their lives on the line for us" and
don't even give the slightest credit to jobs that are much more dangerous?

Screw uniforms. From now on I will honor those who put their lives on the line so I can eat fish, travel by plane and have a wooden table.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Interesting!

[Ron Green]

2. Just so long as they don't play "Amazing Grace" on the bagpipes when

a logger dies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Shit. "Back in the day", they wouldn't even stop work.

The last car in the train leaving the woods was reserved for the men who didn't survive the workday.

There are certain categories of workers who are disposable, and no one grieves his passing except his family.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. Cops are the biggest bunch of whinny crybabies you will ever meet.

[Shell Beau]

10. Not true. And disgusting post really.

I am sure some are. How about those who ran into the burning buildings. They were crying as they were trying to save lives?

[ieoeja]

19. Very true, actually.

No other group complains faster or louder than cops when you don't kiss their collective asses.

Off-duty cop got drunk and beat up a 95lb female bartendar for cutting him off. "She shouldn't have disrespected a cop!" shout all his fellows after watching the tape on TV.

Retired cops admitted torturing hundreds. "Why are you picking on us?" all the cops whined.

News shows a man leaving death row after someone else confessed to the crime and DNA evidence proved the other guy guilty. "But, we had the sonofabitch cold! He was already convicted. Why are you letting him out? He's guilty! Why won't you believe us?"


That is just a partial list of items from just one year that had the Chicago cops crying about how nobody loves them. Other items on the list are far more pathetic actually. But I can never recall those because I can understand them. Wait, I do recall one now. A columnist thought something a cop was wearing looked kind of silly. The paper was inundated with hundreds of complaints calling for the columnists head. And the thing is, it was kind of goofy looking, and something the cops didn't even like. But nobody, NOBODY, better say ANYTHING negative about a cop, or they come out crying.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. You should read the Blog and comments on SecondCityCop.com

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.......(and racism)

[Shell Beau]

32. I wonder about all of the good things that happen every minute

of every day that goes unreported. Yeah, that doesn't make interesting news. Or the terrible things cops do have to go through that go unreported. Like when my brother (yep, you got it, a cop/state trooper) found a dead 6 year old in a garbage can. Or when he went to the coast before Katrina when everyone else was leaving. Or when a guy put a gun to his head. Or when he had to go to the home of the parents of a child that was killed in a car accident and break the news to them.


But you are right, they are all whiny assholes.

[ieoeja]

37. Because none of the rest of us ever have to do that, huh?

I've been shot at on the farm by thieves while growing up. My mom shot some home invaders. My dad walked into a bar full of drug dealers that were harrassing my brother (ex-dealer) and convinced them it wouldn't be healthy for them to keep up that shit. My grandparents exchanged gunfire with the Klan.

I've washed away the blood, guts and brains from traffic accidents.

My introduction to my first college roommate was, "I got a call for you about ten minutes ago. Your aunt is dead."

And I'm a computer programmer.

Every life is full of tragedies and hardships. In fact, everything you just described (except the gun to the head) was a hell of a lot worse for someone else than it was for your brother.


FYI: You might want to avoid mentioning that your brother went to New Orleans. The police and military response there was an atrocity by most accounts.

[Shell Beau]

38. That's funny. I never said my brother went to New Orleans.

The MS coast thank you very much. And he risked his life and saved many lives down there. In case you forgot, Katrina wasn't all about New Orleans. Ignorance.

Plus you have no idea what my brother or any other cop for that matter have gone through. And since my brother was on the receiving end of the bad news from a cop one time about my other brother, he does have a clue of what it is like to deliver such devastating news.


FYI: Oh and telling someone their aunt died and telling someone their children died are a little different.

[Beer on a stick]

53. OMFG, you sound like super-duper and stuff!

Let me be the first to hand you a big, steaming platter of "so what?" in regards to how your stated experiences relates to your claims about LEOs.

[spoony]

24. That can't be so, because I just read your post.

Unless you're a cop, too.

[Beer on a stick]

54. Oh.....SNAP.

[ourbluenation]

68. BOOOOOO! As a DV advocate, I love our law enforcement partners.

they're not perfect, but they certainly aren't whiners.

[LeftishBrit]

5. Let us honour all who risk their lives for their communities.

I am reminded here of the old Canadian song about 'Peter Emberley' who died in a logging accident; one verse goes:

There's danger on the ocean where the waves roll mountain high,
There's danger on the battlefield where the angry bullets fly.
There's danger in the lumber woods, for death lurks sullen there,
And I have fell a victim into that monstrous snare.

[Mrs. Overall]

6. My uncle was a logger all of his life and was killed in a logging accident one week before retiring-

He inexplicably felled a tree on himself--very odd for being so experienced. We wondered if he had a stroke or heart attack, but no autopsy was performed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. The job is inherently dangerous.

You have to work fast, you have to work hard, you have to work around the most dangerous imaginable equipment and in the worst conditions.

I mean look at a chainsaw. Are there any tools which are remotely as lethally dangerous to the person operating it?

You can do everything right and still end up dead. I would never describe a logging fatality as inexplicable.

[Mrs. Overall]

9. Good points--

It's just that his co-workers, who were very shaken, told us that the cut seemed relatively simple compared to some of the huge trees that he often fell. It left them scratching their heads as to what happened.

Chainsaws scare the shit out of me--one small move and it's over.

[DemoTex]

8. My grandfather was a logger and saw mill operator.

He lost an arm in the saw mill. After that he could not work, but lived to a ripe old age.

[Hannah Bell]

69. my uncle used to say he was one of the few old-timers at the sawmill who hadn't lost

an appendage (usually fingers).

[Jennicut]

11. Electrical power line operators...eek. That is why I did not want my husband doing that.

He works for CT Light and Power but collects payments and shuts off people's gas at times. He thought about being a line worker. Good money but you risk your life everyday.

[TheMightyFavog]

22. A family friend is a power line operator.

He's now in the hospital with 2nd and 3rd degree burns over 80% of his body due to an accident he had while working on high-tension lines. He'd probably be dead if a motorist hadn't passed by and saw him dangling from his safety harness.

[Jennicut]

29. SO so glad my husband decided he did not want that job.

We know some people in his company who got severely hurt and a few that died.
Hope your friend gets better, its a tough job.

[TheMightyFavog]

44. I have sad news on this front.

Unfortunately, he died from his injuries yesterday afternoon.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. Please accept my condolences

The guys who keep the power on deserve every dollar they make, but they also deserve better engineering to make their jobs safer.

[Edweird]

73. The IBEW works really hard to keep us as safe as possible.

It's impossible to mitigate ALL risk, however. You really have to have your head in the game or you will pay the price.

[Edweird]

72. I'm sorry to hear that.

[Shell Beau]

41. I have a good friend who was eletrocuted to death doing that.

He was 30. So sad.

[Edweird]

74. I personally find the risk rewarding. I'm an adrenaline junkie maniac, however.

I couldn't see myself doing anything else.

[Critters2]

12. I've been in ministry for 23 years. I've served both firefighters

and cops. And of course, sen some young people go off to war. But the only two work-related death funerals I've ever done were both for farmers. One fell into his combine while trying to remove a blockage, the other suffocated by falling into a wagon of soybeans. My current congregation only has a couple of farmers, but harvest season still makes me nervous. I won't take trips away overnight during the harvest, for fear of being needed by the family of an injured farmer.

I think we forget how dangerous some people's daily work can be.

[Shell Beau]

13. Right. There are many many dangerous jobs out there.

I know some who work on oil rigs. Also a very dangerous job.

I don't really get the point of the OP though.

[ieoeja]

20. Cops frequently use, "but we're risking our lives," to excuse bad behavior.

In fact, I do believe they have used that excuse 100% of the time when one of them is caught doing something wrong.

But in reality, law enforcement officer doesn't even break into the top 25 dangerous jobs.

[Shell Beau]

26. Ok.

But it is a very dangerous job. How many cops do you know personally? Just curious. And I mean REALLY know.

[ieoeja]

35. A dozen or so.

Cop station used to be a block from my house. The cop bar is still one block away.

I currently have a cop's husband doing electrical for me. Friend of mine was married to a cop. Another friend was engaged to a cop, but broke it off.

[Shell Beau]

39. Are they all terrible people who get off being mean to people?

Or like most I know, are they people trying to do a good job and make an honest living like most people do?

[ieoeja]

50. Most of 'em are shit. (nt)

[theHandpuppet]

63. I think the greater risks/injuries to cops are psychological

I'm certain I couldn't handle seeing the types of things they deal with day in and day out -- my head would be totally messed up. What is really needed for people in law enforcement is regular psychological counseling but in many communities, such as mine, there simply isn't the money. Cops can suffer the same type of PTSDs as soldiers on a battlefield. You can start out with all the noblest intentions in the world but at some point you can find your mind getting sucked into a very dark place. I suspect there are actually very few cops who are psychologically fit to serve more than 10 years on the streets, nor should they. But there are only so many desk jobs, so these men and women stay out on the streets much longer than they rightfully should -- increasing the risk that one day they'll snap. Same thing with soldiers who serve too many tours in a war zone. All this probably increases the "circle the wagons" mentality among many cops.

There are good cops and bad as well as some good cops who turn bad. Perhaps at least part of the solution could be found in more stringent psychological testing in the hiring, and treating time on the beat like a tour of duty, i.e., you only serve so much time on the street. I think there also needs to be an wholesale re-examination of how local enforcement is funded. In many communities the pay is so crappy and the qualified applicants so few, communities can be slow to remove any rotten apples from the barrel.

It's time to start nationwide public discussions on how to fix our system of law enforcement, because it is truly broken. The kind of wholesale trashing of cops as I see here on DU is not a solution and it's not even a dialogue. For every thread I see concerning some cop who has engaged in some abhorrent act you can bet there are a thousand more out on the streets today who will be saving lives. The goal should be to recruit and retain the best.

[Shell Beau]

65. Psychological risks are great. The divorce rate with cops

is through the roof. My brother had to seek counseling after something that went down. The law enforcement system is far from perfect. Work definitely needs to be done. However, blaming all cops for the shitty ones does nothing to help.

[theHandpuppet]

66. Totally agree

There's a cop here in town who was recently called to a report of child abuse just a few blocks from my home. When police arrived they found a two year old toddler that had been viciously raped by her mother's boyfriend and possibly some of his other friends as well. The baby had massive internal injuries and is still in the hospital. This cop hasn't been able to sleep since and is tortured by what he witnessed. What he needs is some time off and psychological counseling because he's suffering from PTSD. And he's a good guy who serves his community for about 30 thou a year.

Like I said, I know I couldn't handle the kind of crap most cops witness day after day and neither could most of the people here. Sure there are bad cops, but the blind hatred of all cops I see here day after day will do nothing to solve the real problems of law enforcement in this country. There needs to be a nationwide public dialogue on how to solve these problems, including how to attract and keep the best officers and to offer them psychological support. Many communities these days are so strapped they can't afford to attract the best and may be reluctant to shed those who aren't fit for this line of work. These basic issues are ones that need to be addressed.

[Shell Beau]

70. I may be a little biased since my brother is a cop (well was a cop, now

a state trooper). I know of just SOME of the things he has had to deal with. It would make a lot of people insane. Really. He did almost lose his marriage over it. He has become a different person. He is still a good person, but he has hardened a lot. He has had threats on his children and wife for arresting the head of a local gang. He saw tons of dead bodies during Katrina. He found a little 6 year old dead in a garbage can. Told numerous families that their loved ones were dead. So much more, some things I don't want to even discuss. He is not an asshole cop. He has never tased anyone. He has been tased himself 3 times. One incident did make him seek counseling. I won't go into it, but it was rough. Very rough. He does this, like all cops, for crappy pay. And deals with a lot of cop bashing and hate. And he will be the first one to hate on asshole cops. They aren't all bad. I get so tired of having this argument on DU. I do understand the bad ones are BAD. They are gross people who got in it for the wrong reasons, or got so desensitized that they should leave the job. But I will not stand for those who shit on all cops when I have met so many good ones. Ones that will risk their life for you. Ones that will run into those burning towers when everyone else is running out. Ones that will head to the hurricane when everyone else is getting out. Ones that we call when we are in danger. And they show up. That stuff rarely makes the news. Only the ugly stuff does.

[dysfunctional press]

14. these stats are for the year 2004.

while they are probably still the top 3, the actual numbers given are just from the one year.

[juno jones]

15. My cousin in law recently broke his back

while logging, he was loading the truck and the load slipped and fell on him.

He came thru. Up and walking around. However, he has also been struck by lightning, electrocuted by a high tension wire he came in contact with and been in a couple of motorcycle accidents that would have killed other people. Oh and did I mention the ultra-light plane crash?

What can you say, It's just not his time.

on edit: my husband had been invited to go on the logging trip but found other things to do instead. He said he had a feeling it would turn out badly. :)

[conscious evolution]

16. being a seven-eleven clerk is more dangerous than being a cop

Can you imagine how bad it would be if convienance store didn't offer free coffee and junk food to cops?

[Shell Beau]

18. hahahahahaha

:eyes:

[conscious evolution]

30. Thank you

and don't forget to tip your waitress.

[Shell Beau]

33. Always.

[AngryAmish]

17. Taxi driver is pretty unsafe, too

[SidDithers]

25. Are you talkin' to me?...nt

:evilgrin:

Sid

[Blue_In_AK]

21. Logging, fishing and flying planes.

That about covers the jobs in Alaska. Well, and ice road truckers, too.

[Shell Beau]

27. There isn't enough money out there for me to get in one of

those trucks!!! No way!

[Spike89]

23. Grew up in Oregon, logged, fished, but never piloted

To be honest, logging always scared the crap out of me and helped motivate me into college. Commercial fishing was probably more dangerous, but most of the time I was simply too tired or too desperate for a good catch to worry.

The big difference between those jobs and public safety jobs is, well, it's obvious. Loggers risk themselves for a decent living, but they aren't asked to look out for you. Granted, most cops and firefighters don't have to truly offer their lives to protect a stranger, but it is part of the job description and that is the difference.

[Quezacoatl]

31. President

I read this week that the most dangerous job was President with a 9% fatality (or was it assination)rate.

[Gabi Hayes]

43. even higher if you include Harrison and FDR

Harrison wouldn't have died the way he did, had he not stayed out in the weather too long during his inauguration

FDR...WWII probably did him in early (along with his polio). he was only 63! looked much, much older

[MajorChode]

34. Nobody should get a free pass for misbehaving

But that doesn't mean it's OK to paint the whole profession with such a broad brush as many on DU seem to like to do. There are about 1 million law enforcement officers in the US. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that there's going to be some bad apples, just as there are with just about everything.

The bottom line is most police are doing a shitting job dealing with mostly shitty people for shitty pay. They deserve respect for that even if there was no reason to respect their authority (and there is). Unless they give me reason otherwise, I highly respect teachers for much of the same reasons and lots of others. Even McDonalds workers are worthy of respect for what they do.

So there's still plenty of reasons to give soldiers and policemen a "free pass" until they give you a reason otherwise. And just because the mortality rate isn't as high as some, doesn't mean they don't have a hazardous job.

[eyepaddle]

36. I know that the actual death rate for on the job police officers is fairly low, but

I'm not sure this study looked at military deaths. Just off-hand I'd say there are around 1-1.5 million mmebers of the US Armed Forces (I could look it up, but I don't think it's necessary for this back-of the-envelope bit) and if we'd had 5000 combat deaths in the lst ten years (again, approximations, but should give us a workable ballpark figure) we get a death rate of between 33/100,000 and 50/100,000--even if I have overstimated the numbers by a factor of two that would still put thhem somewhere on the list.

Add in to that that I just did that for the Armed FOrces as a whole--when I am pretty certain the deaths are concentrated in the Army and the USMC.

That technicality aside, I am in wholehearted agreement about not excusing frequently criminal misbehaviour on the job as a result of where the job lands on the death rate table.

Especially with Police--if the laws are to be taken seriously, they must first be taken seriously by those who enforce them.

[whoneedstickets]

45. Death rate over 10 years..

if you estimate the death rate at 5000 over ten years, then don't you have to likewise multiply by 10 the number of people employed in the job since the rest of the figures presented by the OP are in death/100K per year! 5K deaths/10 years = ana verage of 500/year -- That would knock your solider down to 3.3/100K to 5/100k working with your manpower estimate.


Here is another link that shows cops in the top 10 of most dangerous jobs. But they do get a lot more attention than those poor garbage collectors at #9. So go hug your trash guy!

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/safety/memorial/upload/_09.pdf

[whoneedstickets]

46. I AM WRONG....FACTS on Military death rate..

Found this data:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

see page 10. US military death rate for 2006 -- 1875 deaths, 1.65 million FTE personnel. 1875 / 16.5 = deaths per 100K personnel == 114. Soldiering is a VERY dangerous job. It would top the list in the OP.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. I get 11.36... about 1/8th as dangerous as logging.

1875 / 16,500,000 * 100,000

[whoneedstickets]

57. no, your math is wrong...

the stat is deaths/100k personnel. so the equation is 1875 / (1,650,000 / 100000) or 1875 / 16.5 = 113.6 deaths per 100000 soldiers. That said, the death rate includes deaths from hostile actions, illnesses, suicides, homicides. If you want to calculate a new death rate /100k with a pared down number you could get the rate below loggers.

[Beer on a stick]

40. I'm sorry, could you point out exactly who's doing that and where?

[proteus_lives]

42. Flambait and Failbait.

Not all soldiers and cops misbehave. You're broad-bushing because you're ignorant.

What police and military pilots? How does that fit into your narrow POV?

How about you honor men and women who are willing to defend and die for you no matter how much you spit on them.

[daedalus_dude]

60. lol

:rofl:

[proteus_lives]

61. About the level of response I expect.

Thanks for not surprising me.

[daedalus_dude]

62. You obviously didn't understand my OP, so what else is there left to discuss...

[proteus_lives]

64. Then enlighten me.

"dude"

[Cid_B]

47. The subtle difference is possibly lost on you...

but I don't think it is. You understand what the difference is but consciously choose to ignore it. Thats ok. Everyone has the right to choose to be ignorant.

[daedalus_dude]

59. I think you see a subtle difference where there isn't one.

[mainer]

48. Aircraft pilots? Now that scares me.

I'm already afraid of flying, and this just makes it worse.

[ddeclue]

49. So it would be really bad to be a helicopter pilot that hauls sling loads of logs

out of remote forests and who fishes on weekends as a hobby.

[positrac]

55. Well, statistics can be problematic...about 1 of every 10 Presidents have died on the job.

Not many other occupations have a nearly 10% fatality rate.
Just sayin'...

[GreenTea]

56. What about a pastry chef?

[Thothmes]

58. I can understand the numbers

My dad fell timber in SW Washington state for 33 years. It seemed like every year, one of his friends or aquaintences was killed or seriously injured.
It was the same way in the schools I attended, every year a father, uncle, brother killed or injured while logging.

[Greyhound]

67. If you really wish to honor them, work for a ban on the export of raw timber.

We are engaged in the single most destructive economic practice the parasites have invented, stripping natural resources and exporting them to cheap labor markets for all the value added processing.

[Edweird]

71. Don't forget those that keep the lights on.. I'm #8

[slackmaster]

75. President of the United States is more dangerous

Statistically speaking.