What is the difference between Walmart and Ikea from a smallbusinesskiller POV?

[imdjh]

I was thumbing though the Ikea catalogue and thinking about how cool it was to have all that cool in one place. I have always been a huge fan of high style contempo stuff, and while most of the places that sold full furniture lines couldn't be called "small businesses" a lot of other places sold pieces and accessories presented in unique combinations if not unique designs. Clearly there was a market for Ikea, because the Scandinavian designs were the province of really expensive stores until Ikea came along.

And now, for the shopper on a budget and who isn't, Ikea is a one stop big box for style in home furnishing.

So what is the difference? Does Ikea get a pass on "predatory" and "big box" and "small business killer" because we perceive the company to be Nordic and progressive?



Off topic- Ikea should be hauled over coals for their tolerance and promotion of clutter. The new catalogue should be called Color Blind Pack Rats With Style

[Romulox]

1. The idea that there are "nice" corporations proceeds from a fundamental misunderstanding...

Ikea is just like Walmart, but they make products that I like. Ergo, they are a "good" corporation.

[redqueen]

4. lol

[HopeHoops]

2. Oh, there are a lot of differences.

Ikea has a fair collection of items that aren't readily available elsewhere (as in unique)

Ikea has some items that are quite reasonably priced, but for the most part there are alternatives available elsewhere that are roughly equivalent and much less expensive.

Ikea doesn't sell below cost to target specific competitors to put out of business.

Ikea doesn't plant their stores right next to whatever businesses they plan to destroy, should they be so inclined.

Ikea is known for being a responsible employer, not one that actively skirts the rules to avoid letting employees participate in healthcare.

And finally: Ikea isn't evil.

[Gwendolyn]

56. That sounds like a pretty good summary.

The only downside I can see to the whole concept is the intimidation factor for those who are do-it-yourself challenged. The instruction sheets often resemble crude caveman etchings, and it's a bitch trying to figure out how the hörtverganzen screw fits into the frökentanztvärtom bracket and where the hell are the fruktansvärdsven thingies that hold the whole shabang together. A whole day can go by just trying to fit four wood slabs together. Just for that inconvenience alone, competitors will always exist.

[quiller4]

3. Ikea treats employees better than Walmart and doesn't seek

the kind of property tax concessions that Walmart has become famous for. Ikea competes with local businesses on a much closer to level playing field. In my area, you can better prices on most storage systems and much furniture at COSTCO than you can at Ikea.

[imdjh]

6. I've got your storage system right here.

Confess! You're a pack rat, aren't you? You still have your denim notebook from your senior year, ballpoint doodles and all.

[lapislzi]

16. I call foul!

I LOVED that notebook. It contains some of the most incredibly emo poetry ever written!

[DKRC]

50. Amateur!

Emo poetry in notebooks ... pffft ... :rofl:

I've got socks from 1981.

[Yunomi]

51. OMG!! How did you know? nt

[PM Martin]

5. Ikea gets their goods from more than one place

Unlike Walmart.?!?:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

7. Ikea kills small furniture businesses... WalMart kills ALL small businesses

That's a pretty big difference.

[Romulox]

9. lol. nt

[imdjh]

12. good point One WM can kill a grocery, a couple of delis, a tire dealer, a hardware store, etc...

[Romulox]

13. Either you believe in "competition" or you don't. This "third way" crap is self-contradictory. nt

[imdjh]

28. Not entirely. Take beer in Florida. All stores pay the same wholesale for beer.

No matter how much or how little they buy, Walmart pays the same price as Joe's Mart. And the wholesale prices are published as required by law, to keep the distributors honest. So Walmart pays the same as Joe. Joe may lose some sales to Walmart due to the covenience factor of alkies who can buy beer with the groceries, but Joes still gets the sales of alkies who buy on impulse, for convenience, or one beer at a time.

[Romulox]

33. That's called "price control"--that's the opposite of the "free market". nt

[imdjh]

39. Not exactly. Busch doesn't have to charge the same as Miller.

What the Florida law requires is that Great Bay Distributors charge Walmart the same as Joe's for Michelob. Ironman Distibutors of Miami is free to charge their customers a higher or lower price, as long as they charge all their customers the same price.

I don't see it as price fixing. If Levi Strauss charges Walmart $12 and Freda's $12 Walmart would still be free to undercut Freda as long as they didn't sell for less than they paid.

[Romulox]

40. That's the government setting prices. Again, the absolute converse of the "free market".

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. But does it, really?

Stylistically (I'm only supposing, as I've never been in an Ikea store) they focus on Scandinavian design. If you are looking for Scandinavian design, that's where you go. If you are looking for wicker, go to Pier 1. They do not compete with each other. If you are looking for other specific styles, there are other places to go.

So how does Ikea kill small furniture businesses?

[haele]

49. Actually, Ikea does not kill small furniture businesses -

Ikea tends to be a very modern or dorm-room style; you can't always find what you want at an Ikea if you want something else. Especially when it comes to the larger furniture items - got a large, heavy, older home theatre and TV set, or a "large screen" (46" and up) - can't find a stand there. Can't find an overstuffed sofa or recliner there. And you can usually find cheaper if you look around.
As for quality - eh. We had two Ikea bed substitutes for the kidlet - a "captain's daybed" and a futon; she broke both of them within a month of purchase. Birch or pine slats do not necessarily hold up to an angry, active teenager that loves the high drama of flouncing and slamming. You need heavy oak or sturdy re-enforced piping for that level of activity.

They do make it easier to quickly and completely furnish an apartment or a dorm if you go in with a thousand dollars or so. Of course, you can do the same online at Target or Costco, and also be able to purchase the electronics (minifridge/toaster oven/hot-plate) needed to be completely comfortable for about the same amount.

Haele

[tosh]

52. LOL @ "the high drama of flouncing and slamming."

I am glad I am only an aunt!!

I :patriot: you!

[Junkdrawer]

8. Anything to do with this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x373481

[imdjh]

19. Hadn't seen that yet, but it's pretty good. nt

[Junkdrawer]

37. So this might just be related to the Israeli boycott of IKEA...

...a boycott not related to IKEA, per se, but stemming out of a disagreement between Israel and Sweden's refusal to gag a Swedish newspaper.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145107187&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[imdjh]

41. no, my thread came from reading the catalogue while on the toilet, not thinking about Israel

[leftstreet]

10. Those icky poor people don't tend to shop at Ikea, so it's cooler

just in case:

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Romulox]

11. "Maybe people who work at Whole Foods DON'T WANT insurance?"

Conscience = clean!

[imdjh]

21. Where do you live? I've been to Ikea once, on a Saturday, and had to rub up against the hoi polloi

I was really surprised. People seemed to be there for entertainment. We went for two footstools and had to wade through, it makes my skin crawl just to say it: the public.

[aquart]

47. My sister goes for the coffee and cheap food.

[kestrel91316]

14. Ikea is the only known (to me) source of genuine scandinavian

inlagd sild (pickled herring) outside of scandinavia.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. Walmart hasn't invested $50mm for green technology grants?

Check out IKEA GreenTech

[imdjh]

23. walmart goes green

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0208-walmart.html

I figured that with their revenues, they could easily spend enough to claim to be green. I realize that's not a fair way for me to put it, from their POV, but I doubt they are reading this.

[mntleo2]

17. Ikea is union and they share their profits with workers

..for one. Swedes are just more cool for many reasons. One being they are a (da da dahhhhh!) SOCIALIZED. Therefore their medical, education, and work lives are much better than ours. My cousin who was raised in Stockholmswagan, her parents had TWO FULL MONTHS A YEAR PAID time off, one month in the winter one in the summer. For family care, for kids and elders, they got paid time off, up to two years for kids, PAID. College educations were free but you had to qualify for it, kids learned English from kintergarten on.

They try to pass this attitude on here in America at Ikea, though my cousins say the way they treat the American worker would not pass in Sweden.

Just thought this might help

Cat in Seattle (my name is the German/Irish but my mother's dad was a Swedish immigrant).

[Romulox]

25. Ikea retail workers are unionized? That's news to me! nt

[quiller4]

54. Teamsters represent Ikea workers in stores and warehouses in Canada

IFBWW represents the Ikea employees who manufacture their wood furniture. The 6 stores in Japan are staffed by union workers as are all the stores in Europe. UFCW 342 had contracts with some Ikea stores in New York. I don't know if they still do.

[imdjh]

26. I realize you're speaking amongst ourselves.

But you aren't the first or the only person here to go on about how much time off people have in this or that country or company. It doesn't play well on the ear, and the Republicans actually have picked up on it and use it as a talking point to the effect: When socialism becomes the mode, the discussion becomes about time off rather than innovation and productivity.

When the healthcare system we want in this country is culturally linked with nations considered to have a a very high cost of doing business, in part due to the mandated leave and vacation policies, people start to add that stuff up in their heads and then throw the baby out with the bath water.

[mntleo2]

36. Point taken and ...

It is true that Rethugs use this time off as somehow being a BAD THING but people that buy that crap are just their tools...

...the so-called "hard work" ethics Americans pretend they have only applies to the lowest paid workers ~ and I am including here salaried supervisors who actually work 60 hour weeks and because they are not paid by the hour, are in essence paid less than their subordinates. "Hard work " is nothing but a damn myth as far as working hard and then someday you will "make it." Ask the next daycare worker, cashier, or or waitress who works her ass off and is on her feet for 8 hours straight without a break, what hope she has to get rich from all that hard work.

In reality, upper income people take that kind of time off all the time. They have those nice month long vacations so they can ski in the alps and then pretend they "work hard". In reality they pay few taxes that support this country and sit by their pools talking on their IPhones while collecting their dividends. The RICH expect YOU to work your ass off for THEM, and then make you think you are so holy because you "work hard." They pretend your work place is "family" when in reality the *only* reason you are there and with those people is that you all want to get paid, they are *not* family. See how that works when one of your "friends" have to choose trashing you to the boss or keeping their jobs sometime ... Suddenly "family" goes out the window and "saving my own ass" goes in the door.

This treatment is not true for Sweden where they have work standard that apply to all citizens. All workers get this time off, not just the rich. Their family lives are actually respected as contributing to the Greater Good of their country. Baby counts as she is Sweden's future and deserves good parental care because her family life is important to her development. Parenting is actually considered a 2nd job in Sweden. Grandpa counts because not only is he a wellspring of history, he contributed to his country and deserves the rest. Elder care is important and respected as work for family members as the elderly are not just warehoused as they are here.

Ooooo! Rest is BAD! Then we wonder why we have a daily murder rate in this country that is HIGHER than an entire year there. Before you say it, I would LOVE to live in Sweden, if I could afford to immigrate there and if not that all my support system were not here. Time off and family time should be what we work for, not giving our life's blood to someone who will fire us as soon as we are not useful to them who takes it all for themselves and leaves entire communities polluted, loeached of all their resources so they have none, and without even a home to live in.

Religious or not on my deathbed I would sure not give a crap as to how much work I did to make some rich man richer, but I sure would love to look up and see the loving faces of my family around my bedside.Do you think that, when you get to heaven you will be asked how much time you spent in the office before you get a pass? Or will you be expected to show what did you do for your loved ones and neighbors?



Just sayin' ...

Cat In Seattle

[imdjh]

57. Vacation time gets longer with seniority in most corporations, and some positions start higher.

Just as some positions pay more than others. At Major Corp , a lowest level employee can have five weeks of vacation if he has been there long enough. Entry level employees start with 2 weeks with an optional purchased 3rd week. Higher level entry begins with 3 weeks optional purchased 4th week.

It is rare for an upper level employee to take a one month vacation. Generally, they are too paranoid to be out of the office that long, even if they thought they would actually get to stay away that long. It's rare, partially because if the company can get by without you for a month straight, a person might think you aren't needed.

My brother is #6 in a major corp and has never taken more than two weeks at once. If he were planning the grand-tour, he might do a month on a once in a lifetime thing. I don't think he actually could stay away from work for a month, as it is he picks up and answers emails and calls while on vacation.

[aquart]

48. Because "quality of life" is only important for rich people.

Poor people need to work themselves to death.

[imdjh]

55. Like most things, it's about approach and timing.

If the first question an applicant or new employee asks is, "What time is my break and how long is it?" a person gets the impression that he has made a mistake in considering this person. By the same token, with health care and a variety of issues in play, when someone brings up doubling, tripling, or quadrupling the normal vacation time for US employees, a person gets the impression that the discussion isn't about working, it's about not working.

[Brickbat]

38. Are IKEA workers union anywhere in America? I don't shop at IKEA here just because they're awesome

in Sweden. That makes no sense to me at all. I buy the vast majority of my purchases based on where things were made. It has to be a little more than "designed in Sweden!" (*ding,* sparkly smile) for me to buy it.

As far as the original question, any company that outsources the majority of production to the consumer (like IKEA does) is going to be a tough competitor for smaller, family owned, service-oriented furniture stores.

[LibertyLover]

18. IKEA works with small and medium-sized producers

around the world in many developing countries to source both its products and raw materials. They encourage sustainability and good environmental practice among their suppliers and work with them to help achieve those goals.

And yeah, I agree with you about the style of their most recent catalogue.

[imdjh]

34. And don't we all have 16 foot ceilings?

[MNDemNY]

20. Are there "small businesses" that sell cheap modular furniture?

[imdjh]

32. There have been. They came and went.

Nothing on the scale of Ikea, but that why I asked the question.

When I was a teenager, Scan Design was the king of contemporary. Then Brazil Contempo and some others tried to make some inroads. Even Levitz would have a piece here and there. Smaller stores would have some stylish and/or functional chairs, lamps, and stuff. Let's face it, sofas, couches, and heavy pieces are the anchors of decor and they are expensive to carry, display, and deliver.

I'm not saying that Ikea is bad. I was just thinking outloud about how practical it is to think in terms of small proprietorships being the center of a retail market segment.

[cbdo2007]

22. I just don't like Ikea for using non-standard screw sizes and stuff sometimes.

I've had to make numerous modifications to their items when putting it together because I didn't buy their "special" screws or whatever there, then I get home thinking I can use my own boards/screws and they don't fit because they use off sizes. Even their light bulbs. I've got a lamp that I haven't used after the first bulb because it burned out and I can't find one that fits, and am hundreds of miles away from an Ikea.

[FarCenter]

27. They use standard metric sizes like all the world except the United States

We're the ones who are non-standard.

[imdjh]

29. Metric is a fad. Imperial measures rule.

[FarCenter]

46. Not even the UK uses Imperial measures any more

Except, possibly, for the Imperial pint down at the pub.

Our manufacturer's should convert so that our products can be exported.

[tosh]

44. Doh! Get the Fixa kit for $6-7.

All the tools you need in a handy case. They would cost $30 at HD.

[Javaman]

24. Well, it goes sort of like this...

the owner of Ikea has denounced his Nazi past and has gone out of his way to make reparations (donations, foundations, etc) to make up for it, while walmart embraces it.

[Trajan]

31. IKEA has a unique and exclusive product line ....

That does not exist at Mom and Pop stores, nor at the other furniture/department stores ...

I often go elsewhere ...

[emulatorloo]

35. How many Walmarts are there? How many Ikeas? I am ten minutes from a Walmart. I am 5 hours from an

Ikea.

Well anyway that is one difference. I don't think you can compare the two in terms of market saturation.

[tosh]

42. That's a major difference that I was about to post.

Ikea has not moved into EVERY small city on the map. They are limited to large metro areas.

Yikes. The "small city" near me is breaking ground on a SECOND Squawl-Mart.

Another, in an "larger small town" is only 25 miles away.

[imdjh]

45. I think I read that they build one Walmart for every 50,000 people.

My hometown has two Walmarts now. When I was a kid, it had one Colonial Store and folks got excited when A&P was going to open. Main street is gorgeous (they fixed it up real pretty) and dead. The highway between Walmart north and Walmart south is now 7 miles of strip malls, fast food, chain restaurants, and the occasional bar.

[imdjh]

43. ok, who unec'd me? Sven? Vast at yew?

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. There is a difference, it seems

Nearby Rivals Laud Ikea's Arrival
Competitors Say 'Trickle Effect' Helps Them All

Although they still grumble about clogged roads, four owners of furniture and home stores near Ikea -- located at Route 1 and the Beltway -- say their businesses are actually benefiting from the retailer's presence. Although one store, Home Office Furniture Inc., closed five months after Ikea's opening on June 18, 2003, the others think the big competitor has been a draw for an area that had been looking for such an economic boost.

Ikea is effectively acting as an anchor store in a shopping mall, drawing more customers to the Baltimore Avenue corridor, says Roland Rust, a University of Maryland professor and chairman of the marketing department in the business school.

"The Ikea store situation is a little different from Wal-Mart because it's a little bit more specialized. It's still an attractive store that attracts a lot of people. But it doesn't kill off all the small businesses in the area," said Rust, a former editorial board member of the Journal of Retailing, an academic periodical.

Michael Richards, vice president of Will's Home Decorating in Beltsville, less than a mile up the road, considers Ikea "an excellent neighbor." Richards said Ikea spends several hundred dollars at his shop every few weeks, buying 40 to 50 gallons of paint for the constantly changing store displays.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21530-2004Jul28.html

Small retailers not boxed in by Ikea
Independent firms still thrive despite big-box rivals moving in

Conventional wisdom dictates that smaller retailers cower in the face of a big-box invasion, hoping, at best, to sidestep an onslaught of the Wal-Marts, Targets, Costcos and Ikeas of the world. Survive, maybe. Thrive? Forget it.

NOT SO FAST. Some local office furniture retailers say the sluggish economy has affected their business far more than the splashy openings of stores operated by worldwide home and workplace furnishings giant Ikea in Emeryville three years ago and in East Palo Alto on Aug. 27. Ikea plans to open a third Bay Area store in Dublin by late 2004.

Thousands of Ikea shoppers may risk traffic jams for good buys on inexpensive desks, chairs or file cabinets, but most are not typical customers of, for example, Sam Clar, the Concord-based office furniture retailer with stores in Concord, Dublin and San Jose.
...
Small, local furniture store owners say providing exceptional customer service can more than make up for the price difference with big-box discounters. So while there may be a small overlap in customers, the big chains and small regional stores each have major sources of revenue to tap, said Barry Galvin, owner of Galvins Workspace Furniture.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3072754/